How do I stop being a girl's "girlfriend" and start being dating material?

[Seymore]

Girls tell me I'm such a good listener. They lay all of their problems on me and say they feel like they can tell me anything. A few weeks ago I arrived at a friend's house early - he hadn't gotten home from work yet. His girlfriend let me in, proceeded to talk my ear off, then went on to show me all of her perfume collection. I asked her why she seemed to think I was her girlfriend (she does stuff like this a lot), and she said "well, you like this stuff, don't you?" To make matters worse, for Christmas she wanted hers and my friend's gift to me to be a candle. A freaking CANDLE. Thankfully, my friend told her I'm not a girl and they didn't go through with it. But it made me think about the last couple of girls I went on dates with, and how they would talk about themselves for most of the date, never want a second date, but to stay friends and proceed to talk my ear off about their drama and such.

 

People have given me the advice of "just keep being yourself, you'll find someone", and all I seem to find is more "patients" than anything. I sometimes seriously feel like being a therapist would have been my calling. I read a book once that had said something like one way to get people to like you and to make them feel important is to let them talk about themselves, and for you to take an interest in them. Yet the more I let them talk about themselves, the more they start telling me and confiding me and boom - friendzone.

 

Not that my new plan is to hog the conversation, but how can I say "I'm not your girlfriend, I'm not your therapist, please stop treating me like one"?

[laninaperdida]

I don't think being a good listener is what has you friend zoned.

I won't date a guy if he's not a good listener.

I had to phase out this 1 supppper sexy guy because talking to him was like talking to a stick of celery.

I think what has you friend zoned is that these girls aren't attracted to you.

I can't date a guy I'm not attracted to.

However, he has to "prove" so to speak, that he's a good listener first.

How do you look?

 

I understand your frustration with the advice you've been given.

Sometimes, being yourself isn't good enough, lol.

 

Other than improving your appearance, the only technical advice I can give is to listen like a BF - not a friend.

Basically, if you like a girl, act like a BF.

Unfortunately, this means you need to be a good listener as well as a little bit of an ass.

[abitbroken]

She was thinking you "liked this stuff," as far as perfume? Not that gay guys like that either, but does she think you are gay because someone told her, or that she has never seen you show interest in any girl? Yes, listening is important but being a counselor is not. I wouldn;t be a jerk as was mentioned above, but you need to show some interest in a woman you are interested. If you are interested in her, steer the conversation towards stuff you both like to do, etc. and if at the first meeting which is too early to talk about that stuff - she really wants you to be her counselor - move on to the next. Also, maybe it is the women you are zeroing in on that is the issue too. Also, are you an active listener - asking questions, etc, or do you just sit there?

 

Its okay if in a relationship you listen to someone's issues, but not right off the bat.

[tattoobunnie]

Honestly, it just sounds like you haven't found the right girl.

 

A girl that yammers on and on about herself...it's not you...she's just self-absorbed. Try meeting girls through common interest groups. And if you like them, kiss them on the first date! Don't wait! It doesn't have to be a make-out session, just a long lingering soft peck. And if you really want them to take you seriously, don't go dutch. I know I'm gonna get so much flack for that statement, but if a girl thinks you're good enough for them, they will let you pay. And if they think of you as a friend, they will insist on paying their share.

 

Keep in mind...try different approaches. Doing the same thing over and over will not get you different results.

[Seymore]

My friends girl is a little naive. I've definitely shown interest in other girls (some of them her friends, even, all turned out to be "involved"), but maybe she just thinks that everyone finds her stuff as interesting as she does, I don't know...

 

I'm ALWAYS an active listener. That is the one most frequent compliment I get from people. I know exactly what questions to ask and how to branch a conversation with regards to her interest on topic, in a way that shows I'm not just listening, but paying attention.

 

As far as looks go, I'm told I'm good looking and cute, but I don't know what to believe anymore because those women are either friends, family, taken or wouldn't date me (or in a couple of instances, 30 years my senior), so I don't know if they're just saying that or what.

 

Maybe it's that I'm listening TOO much and not saying anything about myself? I have a bunch of hobbies and things I like to do, but it seems like when someone asks me what's new, I'll tell them and they'll just wander off. So I just say "nothing much". I just don't feel interesting to other people. And nowadays more than ever, it seems like people are so darn interested in themselves that they don't even care about the other person.

 

In another month I'm going to have an outing with an interest group and do a little volunteering. Hopefully that will do something.

[oldenoughtoknow]

Hey, Seymore. For a lot of people, the art of conversation just comes naturally. I've always struggled with small talk in "have to" situations, like a business lunch. This has led me to read a lot of books on the subject. You're right, being a good listener and asking people questions about themselves is a great way of keeping a conversation going.

 

Think about this a minute - people treat you the way you ask to be treated. If you're feeling like a therapist, I would continue being an active listener, but suggest that you interject more of your own stories and opinions. Don't ask as many questions. If you're interested in dating someone, you have to throw your hat in the ring. Flirt. Joke. Don't be afraid to lead the conversation at times. Let them subtly know that you're interested.

 

If you just empathetically listen and console someone, heck, why would they pay someone $100 an hour when you'll do it for free.

[tattoobunnie]

It's all about inflection, and conviction. But I don't agree that these days people don't care about others...it's been like that since the dawn of time. People have the inner voices thinking constantly about what to say next. A true listener is a rare gem. Anyway, it might also have a lot to do with the crew you are hanging out with..."birds of a feather flock together"...time to diversify, and get with like-minded peeps.

[Cognitive_Canine]

Maybe you just don't show any lack of interest when talking to someone?

 

If someone went on and on about something I had zero interest in, I'd try to steer the conversation towards something else or say something like "yeah, I really know nothing about that" or "never really thought about it". If you seem interested, they're just going to keep on going with the conversation.

 

Either all these girls have horrible times recognizing when you find things interesting or you aren't displaying your interest level well.

[MikNomis]

I also get a strong typical nice guy vibe from you. I'm not into PUA and they offer many rubbish ideas, but they still do have some useful tips and ideas. Google "pua attraction afc" and I bet you'll find a good number of interesting articles to read that applies to your situation.

[Seymore]

Yeah, someone suggested I read "The Game" and all of that. Did so, took all of that in, felt weird about it. Those guys say you're supposed to talk about your interests like they're the greatest thing in the world, but if I get into my photography hobby, for example - the minute I talk about exposures and stuff, NOTHING is going to make that sound exciting, lol! Then people just said "be yourself". Then I read "How to Win Friends and Influence People", and it said that people like someone who takes an interest in them over someone who is trying to get those people to be interested in him/her, so I did that and now I'm here. So I'm just super confused. Maybe I just need to be less afraid to be up-front and take control of the conversation when I begin to lose interest, as well as less emotionally involved. Maybe once I start to get too involved, that's when they sense I'm their therapist.

[penelope13]

You don't need to go to the other extreme and start hogging the conversation, but you should make an effort to keep the conversation more balanced, i.e after she told you something, tell her something about you in response that shows her who you are as well as that you have actively listened. Don't be 'just an ear'.

 

A good guideline is also not to talk about your dating history with someone who you are potentially interested in before you have established a romantic link.

 

A lot also is communicated through body language: you don't have to stare at her, but you can express interest through your eyes and gestures. Flirtatious banter goes a long way too.

[Seymore]

Thanks, penelope! You're still here! Nice to see you.

[MikNomis]

If you're talking about a hobby, I don't think you should delve into it unless they ask about it. That's how it is for most people; they have a hobby and they know a lot about it but the person they're talking to doesn't so they can't share the enthusiasm about it that you do.

 

So anyway yeah don't take anything in "The Game" very literally, but try to get the basic idea of what they're saying. I think it'd also be useful to see other people doing it. For example, there's a channel on Youtube called Simple Pickup where you can learn a lot by watching how flirting is done and how to effectively express interest.

[penelope13]

Yes, still here, live and kicking. how you've been?

[Seymore]

MikNomis, I think that's just what I need. I was planning on asking this waitress out tomorrow night so I will look for that channel! Thanks!

 

Penelope, I'm OK. Trying new things, having some issues but they'll pass as they always do. How have YOU been?

[penelope13]

I'm great actually.

 

want to discuss those 'issues'?

[Seymore]

I'm great actually.

 

want to discuss those 'issues'?

 

You're so kind, but I think I'm good

[Sportster2005]

Realize there is a difference women liking you and women being attracted to you. And if being yourself isn't working then don't be yourself. This doesn't mean pretend to be something else. It also means don't try and change your core values. It does mean we all have areas of our life that can use improvement. Generally women like fun and interesting along with nice. And don't underestimate physical appearance. Most people can benefit from exercise. Being in shape also is great for everyday confidence. Not implying you're not. I don't know.

[FYI]

I'm going to be brutally honest on a few things of your post.

 

First of all, it's not that you're doing anything wrong as you might believe you are. But what's really different about you than other men women are meeting? That's the key. You probably are a really genuinely nice guy, unfortunately that's not enough nowadays for dating. There are a lot good, decent, nice guys in the world and believe me the problem isn't them either. They just don't do enough to really stand out from the crowd. Good conversation gets your foot in the door. People want to talk. We live in a very interesting society where there is always karma and drama to talk about. So not only good conversation, but having interesting things about your life as well. Maybe you do and you just are not sharing that information or at least conveying it in a fashion which makes it appealing or interesting. Communication is an art and once you learn the mechanics of it, a whole new world of dating will open up to you. I have a friend who is a really awesome guy, nice as hell, but he's just such a terd when it comes to communicating because his life is devoted to video games and race cars. He has very little care for anything else in the world at this point. He's a genuinely nice guy, but again he doesn't stand out from the crowd and this is what women are looking for. They're looking for someone who can be different.

[Seymore]

I have plenty of interests - while I do enjoy video games from time to time, among other things I do is write music, am a photographer, take martial arts (so I am in shape - not "buff" but in shape) as well as act as my martial arts school's marketing strategist, I am a graphic designer by profession and have illustrated 3 children's books. Many people don't know a lot of these things about me because like I said, when I talk about these things, people's eyes glaze over. I don't know if it's because they don't buy it or if they just don't find it interesting, I don't know.

[penelope13]

One of the "secrets" to successful dating is not to waste too much time with people who are not interested in you.

 

So, if you see someone's eye glazing over when you start to share something about you - this is a huge clue for you that they are not really interested in you as a person for them to invest the necessary energy to listen to you and in consequence - YOU move on from them. Don't spend time with them and become their buddy and ear. They will be fine not having you in their lives, but it's not worth your time. Thus move on to someone else.

 

Eventually you will meet the person that is right for you and that will be interested in YOU. She may not share your same passions or interests in hobbies, but if she likes you she will be interested in what you have to say.

 

Thus stop being nice to the wrong people. Girls will not respect you as a potential partner if you accept to be their ear without them investing equally in the interaction - that is for sure a way to get "friendzoned".

[Seymore]

That makes sense. I guess I always figured that saying "Oh, you don't want to date? Fine, later!" was shallow, but then again, a girl who knows I'm interested and only keeps me around for an ear to bend isn't far from shallow, either.

[Ms Darcy]

Who knows what the 'issue' is? I am almost tempted to ask to see your picture.

[Ms Darcy]

Two thoughts -

 

1. Try being clean shaven.

 

2. What kind of woman are you looking for? What specific core values/personality traits do you want (5-7)?

[Seymore]

Thank you for your honesty, Ms. Darcy. I do clean shaven sometimes. All depends how I feel. This winter I tried growing it out all the way and it itched like crazy so I won't go that way again. So I'll shave once every 3 days, usually. I've also been told I'm cute with glasses, but those bug the hell out of me.

 

The woman I'm looking for:

 

Has ties with her family. Doesn't have to be EXTRA close, but not estranged. Last girl I dated was estranged from her family and seemed to resent me for being close to mine. I'm close to mine, and make no apologies for it.

 

Doesn't have massive baggage, I.E. exes she's not over or having just gotten out of a relationship. I think most would find that a reasonable request.

 

Doesn't play games. All that tiptoe around the bush, cutesy game stuff is for the birds. If you're interested, let me know. If you have something you want to say, say it. Don't drop "hints" all the time and expect me to follow.

 

I LOVE a girl who can eat at White Castle or Wildfire just the same. A girl who is worth spending a lot on, I don't mind taking out to a fancy restaurant once in a while.

 

Looks are somewhat important. I'm not looking for an obese woman, but if you want to be SUPER specific, fine: Brown hair, brown eyes. However, I've dated and found girls 50 pounds overweight attractive, and girls rail-thin attractive. I've dated girls with green eyes, girls with blonde hair. That never mattered as much as inside, and that is really what counts. Do you care about OTHER people, and how do you show it?

 

We don't have to have the same hobbies. If we do, that's a bonus. If we don't, that's all the more I can learn. I consider myself open-minded and new experiences have fueled that open-mindedness - from travelling to roller coasters. Not sure I'll go bungee jumping or skydiving ever, though...okay, maybe NOT so open-minded...

 

Can't think of much else at the moment, and since I can't, I'd assume those are the major things.