Is my idea of being with someone unrealistic?

[MattW]

I mean that you seem very concerned that you have to really, really, really relate to a girl before you'd ask her out. Not just relate a bit, which would be completely understandable.

 

Eh, like I said, I'm not necessarily expecting anything "profound", I just need something to catch my interest, and that just never tally really happens.

 

I'm afraid I still think that fear of rejection could be an issue here, even if you're not acknowledging it. That you're finding excuses not to expose yourself to it. Which, if it is the case, is perfectly natural and understandable, but you'd need to acknowledge it to get it over it. Just speaking hypothetically.

 

I dunno, if anything, I expect rejection more than I fear it. I'm used to rejection, even though I still take it hard, so it's more something I just assume to be inevitable.

 

What did you say when you asked her out, and how did she respond?

 

I just straight up asked her out. She curiously asked if I meant a date, and I said I did. She said she was wary about dating coworkers (due to a bad breakup in the past), but said she'd think about it. I saw her again a couple weeks later, and she talked it over with me. She told me I had "balls" for asking her out like that, and that "guys don't usually do that", and that she respected that. But, she said that she was too focused on finishing her last semester for her master's degree, and had to say no. This was back in the fall.

 

Can you define how attracted, and in what ways, you'd need to be before you'd consider a date?

 

Hm. Well, I mean, there's not a method to it, per se. It just kinda happens. If there's something there, it would probably take me at least 2-3 decent length conversations to see, maybe a little more. I'm most interested in sense of humor and overall demeanor. Once I've seen those, that's usually enough for me to know if I'm "attracted".

[Slimpee]

 

 

 

I dunno, if anything, I expect rejection more than I fear it. I'm used to rejection, even though I still take it hard, so it's more something I just assume to be inevitable.

 

There's the self-defeating attitude that is keeping you down. Is it the case that you've expected rejection so long that now you've just developed a thick shell posing as some sort of an ethos in order to prevent further rejection?

[MattW]

There's the self-defeating attitude that is keeping you down. Is it the case that you've expected rejection so long that now you've just developed a thick shell posing as some sort of an ethos in order to prevent further rejection?

 

What I'm saying is, I don't really care about facing more rejection, because I'm used to it. So, I don't have any reason to try to "protect" myself. That doesn't matter to me.

[Slimpee]

What I'm saying is, I don't really care about facing more rejection, because I'm used to it. So, I don't have any reason to try to "protect" myself. That doesn't matter to me.

 

I think there's a difference between expecting rejection and being OK w/ it. The former is rather fatalistic and assumes an outcome from the outset while the latter is being OK with a result. You can hope for, or even expect, success and not be bothered by failure.

[EssexMan]

If there's something there, it would probably take me at least 2-3 decent length conversations to see, maybe a little more. I'm most interested in sense of humor and overall demeanor. Once I've seen those, that's usually enough for me to know if I'm "attracted".

 

Two or three or four decent conversations (in real life or online) seems a completely reasonable prerequisite for a date to me.

 

So is the issue that you don't get those good conversations?

[LoveSoDeep]

Alright Matt....sorry dude you need to man up! You have to ask girls out to be able to talk to them if you don't talk to them you'll never know if you have an attraction. Yes maybe you'll meet people here and there.....but chances that you'll just happen accross "the one" are slim. They are much better if you actually try....whats that saying? "You miss 100% of the shots you never take!"....you're missing 100% of the shots you never take with women which is most of them. This refusal to try to meet girls like normal guys do is your way of protecting yourself and it's only hurting you more in the end.

 

Also you don't have to meet the perfect woman.... there are no perfect women and you're not perfect either...let's not forget that! I've heard that great relationship can be built on about 80% compatibility. I've NEVER loved absolutely everything about anyone....there was always a few things about every man that I didn't like....my parent's have been married for 38 years....same thing my mom rolls her eyes at my dad and the next minute they are holding hands....and her parents are the same way...married darn near 60 years and my grandmother still hates that her husband will not take her to a movie b/c he hates movie theaters! You're ruling women out for the tiniest thing is ridiculous! It's like you think you're too good for the dating process....Well sorry to burst your bubble but you're no better than the rest of us and you have to put in some effort and if you don't I for one will not feel sorry for you.

 

If you meet a girl and you think...."She has a pretty smile." then ask her out! Go have coffee or ice cream or a beer or whatever and see what other things you like about her....as long as there aren't huge red flags and you like 80% of the time you're with her then keep it up. That's what dating is about that's how you find love....Why do you think they call it finding love?.....You have to look for love or you'll never find it! Or a the very least you'll never have any practice and when it comes looking for you you won't know what to do. Get out there and get some practice The only one to blame for you being 24 and never having a date is YOU!

[MattW]

I think there's a difference between expecting rejection and being OK w/ it. The former is rather fatalistic and assumes an outcome from the outset while the latter is being OK with a result. You can hope for, or even expect, success and not be bothered by failure.

 

Yanno, if anything, I think in this situation, "success" is a lot scarier to me than "failure", because the whole dating process is a complete unknown to me. I mean, if a girl ever agreed to go out with me, I wouldn't have any idea where to take her, how to act, what to say, etc., and I'd feel ten times worse if I got a date with an awesome girl and flubbed it up, than if I had asked her out and she simply turned me down.

 

Again, though, I wouldn't say I'm "afraid" of either scenario enough to purposely avoid dating altogether.

 

Two or three or four decent conversations (in real life or online) seems a completely reasonable prerequisite for a date to me.

 

So is the issue that you don't get those good conversations?

 

Eh, not so much, the issue is more that I can get an acceptable amount of conversations, but I don't often actually find something that "hooks" me enough to want to date them. For example, this is the thought process I had when acclimating with some of my female coworkers (minus the one I actually ended up asking out):

 

Girl #1: She's smart and has a good head on her shoulders, but we don't have the same sense of humor at all, and we don't have much in common. She's a perfectly nice girl, but her overall personality is a little too "plain".

 

Girl #2: She's pretty ditzy and not so smart, and makes a lot of very questionable decisions (especially regarding men), but she's not a bad person, and is understanding, supportive, and nice to talk to.

 

Girl #3: She seems intelligent enough, but she's WAY too cheerful, upbeat, and goofy for my tastes.

 

I like all three of these girls enough to be friends with them, but we just don't "click" the other way. That's how I seem to be with, like, 98% of women out there. I like girls, and I like talking to them and spending time with them when I can, but I just can't find a reason to be personally attracted to most of them.

 

Also you don't have to meet the perfect woman.... there are no perfect women and you're not perfect either...let's not forget that!

 

Haha, wow. I can honestly say that I'm not looking for "perfection". Like I've been saying, it's not like I have some list in my mind saying "She has to have this, she has to look like that, etc.", and I know I certainly have my own share of flaws, I'm very much aware of that. I'm not looking for a girl that's "perfect", I'm just having trouble developing a personal attraction to the vast majority of girls in general. Not because they're not "perfect", but because I just don't feel our personalities mesh in that way.

[Cope and Hope]

Honestly Matt, I don't really see the purpose of this thread anymore because you're just arguing against every piece of advice given to you like you already know the problem, already know why you're having it, already know what the outcome will be, already know you will/won't like it, and so on. If you're not willing to take some advice, whether it takes you out of your comfort zone or not, then why keep asking for it?

 

Either way. Being a guy, being a guy who is recently out of a long-term relationship, and being a guy who is recently out of a long-term relationship and is back out there and dating again the best advice I can give you is to just not have any expectations that it will lead somewhere when going on a first date. That said, you need to get to the first date in order to get to the next few dates which will allow you to see if you actually build a connection. It's very very rare that you meet someone and already have a connection. Your thought process needs to stop sounding so victim like because it sounds like you're going "I'm not dating because I'm not finding love!" when in fact it's more like "I'm not finding love because I'm not dating!".

 

Like LoveDeep said, if you meet a nice girl who catches your eye then ask her out even if you don't think it'll lead to something serious; the worse that can happen is you don't talk to eachother anymore after a while but more than likely you'll at least get a new friend out of the situation.

 

Best of luck to you.

[EssexMan]

Girl #2: She's pretty ditzy and not so smart, and makes a lot of very questionable decisions (especially regarding men), but she's not a bad person, and is understanding, supportive, and nice to talk to.

 

If she's nice to talk to, why not ask her out - what's the worst that can happen?

[LoveSoDeep]

Haha, wow. I can honestly say that I'm not looking for "perfection". Like I've been saying, it's not like I have some list in my mind saying "She has to have this, she has to look like that, etc.", and I know I certainly have my own share of flaws, I'm very much aware of that. I'm not looking for a girl that's "perfect", I'm just having trouble developing a personal attraction to the vast majority of girls in general. Not because they're not "perfect", but because I just don't feel our personalities mesh in that way.

 

What you're failing to see though is that even though you can't pinpoint it and write it down there is a list...somewhere in your subconcious that 99.9% of women don't meet up to....so you're dismissing them as possible dates b/c you have this arbitrary way of judging weather your personalities "mesh". I find it depressint hat that was the only part of my post you seemed to pay any attention to that wasn't my main point.

 

Honestly....and really think about this....How the Heck would you know what this "meshing" you speak of even feels like? You say yourself you've never been on a date....so how do you even know what dating material should be? We've all been on dates and what we're telling you is you have to try new things becasue what you're doing is not working. Seriously, would giving a couple girls a shot at having a drink with you and a few hours of conversation really be too much to ask? You may make friends you may learn something about yourself you might even realize this girl you almost blew off could be a good match for you.... you'll never know if you don't try.

[goodfoot]

Yanno, if anything, I think in this situation, "success" is a lot scarier to me than "failure", because the whole dating process is a complete unknown to me. I mean, if a girl ever agreed to go out with me, I wouldn't have any idea where to take her, how to act, what to say, etc., and I'd feel ten times worse if I got a date with an awesome girl and flubbed it up, than if I had asked her out and she simply turned me down.

 

Again, though, I wouldn't say I'm "afraid" of either scenario enough to purposely avoid dating altogether.

 

 

 

 

I think it is for this exact reason that a lot of posters think you would do well to simply go out on some dates even if you aren't initially attacted to them. You need to have a handle on these social interactions so when you meet your one-in-a-million chick you don't mess it up. Besides, one of the women you go out with might surprise you.

[MattW]

Honestly Matt, I don't really see the purpose of this thread anymore because you're just arguing against every piece of advice given to you like you already know the problem, already know why you're having it, already know what the outcome will be, already know you will/won't like it, and so on. If you're not willing to take some advice, whether it takes you out of your comfort zone or not, then why keep asking for it?

 

Again, I'm not trying to argue against the advice of "date girls", I just don't understand HOW to follow that advice when I can't seem to develop a personal attraction to most girls I meet and encounter.

 

Your thought process needs to stop sounding so victim like because it sounds like you're going "I'm not dating because I'm not finding love!" when in fact it's more like "I'm not finding love because I'm not dating!".

 

I'm not expecting to "find love" before I date, but I need something to draw me in enough to make me want to spend one-on-one time with them. I'm not expecting to fall head over heels first, or anything like that, but if I'm not feeling it with a girl after talking to her a few times, I don't see any reason to ask her out to a one-on-one thing.

 

If she's nice to talk to, why not ask her out - what's the worst that can happen?

 

All three of the girls I described are currently with someone. Plus, the one you picked out is preggers, and the reasons I wouldn't want to date her anyway are the first things I listed about her.

 

Honestly....and really think about this....How the Heck would you know what this "meshing" you speak of even feels like? You say yourself you've never been on a date....so how do you even know what dating material should be?

 

Well, I mean... I know what "clicking" with someone feels like, at least on my end, I just can't really seem to do that with very many girls to the point where I want to date them.

[Batya33]

How about the standard of "if I think I could have a pleasant conversation with this person for 30-45 minutes then I will ask her to have coffee with me or go for a walk if it's nice out".

[blueidealist24]

Yeah, if you think you might not want to DATE the girl, don't even make it a date, just ask them for a coffee in a friendly manner. Then you won't feel obligated to continue seeing them if there isn't any click or connection, and if they aren't interested in you, then you lost nothing since you just asked them as friends in the beginning.

[FathomFear]

I honestly don't even think about how physically attractive a girl is until we've made a more mental/ emotional connection, so that's not really an issue for me.

 

Are you saying you have no "surface" sexual attractions? In other words, you don't get turned on by attractive women visually? Sexual attraction only blossoms after a friendship?

[EssexMan]

Yeah, if you think you might not want to DATE the girl, don't even make it a date, just ask them for a coffee in a friendly manner.

 

Absolutely. There is no need to get hung up on the concept of "date" or even to use the word, at least at an early stage.

 

It strikes me, MattW, that you have a pretty simple binary choice here.

 

Either

 

(a) Wait for the Magic Meshing before you ask anyone out, and be prepared for a long wait

 

Or

 

(b) Ask girls out without the Magic Meshing, and be prepared for the fact that it may not happen - in fact, almost certainly will not happen every time.

 

It's up to you to decide whether waiting or non-Meshing is preferable.

[MattW]

Yeah, if you think you might not want to DATE the girl, don't even make it a date, just ask them for a coffee in a friendly manner. Then you won't feel obligated to continue seeing them if there isn't any click or connection, and if they aren't interested in you, then you lost nothing since you just asked them as friends in the beginning.

 

I guess, but how do you ask a girl to spend one-on-one time with you without necessarily making it sound like a date? What if you ask her this, and she immediately asks you to clarify if you mean a date or not? If you say yes, then you're kinda locking yourself into the idea that there's romantic intentions, and if you say no, you risk turning her "off" if you do, indeed, end up feeling something for her.

 

Are you saying you have no "surface" sexual attractions? In other words, you don't get turned on by attractive women visually? Sexual attraction only blossoms after a friendship?

 

More or less, yeah.

[LoveSoDeep]

OH This just occurred to me....

 

The "meshing" that I think you're talking about which is a nice deep connection on menay levels....happens when you're in a realtionship...weather that's a freindship or a romantic one it takes time so so no wonder you don't feel it for most girls....you felt it with a couple b/c you had taken time to get to know them and you were at least friends with them...right? So as other's have said you're going about this backwards you are looking for the realtionship feelsings first. very rarely do people feel that right off the bat....so if that's what you expect: YES, YOUR IDEA OF BEING WITH SOMEONE IS VERY UNREALISTIC!

 

OK so dating is just a way to increase the odds of meeting girls you might mesh with....you're just spending alittle time with anyone you think you just might have a chance at meshing with...as EssexMan said will it happen every time? Of course not! But the chance you are going to magically mesh with women befor you give it a shot are practically nill...so play the numbers game here and get to know/date more women.

[blueidealist24]

I guess, but how do you ask a girl to spend one-on-one time with you without necessarily making it sound like a date? What if you ask her this, and she immediately asks you to clarify if you mean a date or not? If you say yes, then you're kinda locking yourself into the idea that there's romantic intentions, and if you say no, you risk turning her "off" if you do, indeed, end up feeling something for her.

 

 

 

More or less, yeah.

 

I'm not sure.. if a guy asked me out for coffee I for one wouldn't say "Is this a date?".. I'd just go if I thought the guy was decent and gage how he acted to determine whether it's a date or not. If he made any moves on me that I didn't like, I'd just rebuff him then. I guess some girls might ask that though. You could say "Nah, not a date, I just want to get to know you better since you seem cool." I don't think that would turn her off automatically, or land you in the friendzone if she was actually interested. Plus for the second get-together, if you'd sensed romantic interest on the first one, you could make it known you're considering the second one a date.

[MattW]

I suppose I can see what you're saying, but I don't feel like I'm looking for something THAT "deep" right off the bat. With the last girl I liked, I didn't feel like I knew everything about her before I started liking her. We just happened to spend some time together at work, and after a few encounters like that, I found myself thinking "I'm getting along really well with this girl, she's really funny, and I'm having a good time with her; I like her". That's it, really. I guess I just find myself wondering why I can't have that thought more often, yanno? It's not much of a conscious choice (I certainly didn't "choose" to become attracted to that last girl), I just either "feel" it or I don't. I wish I knew why, more often than not, it's "don't".

[camus154]

I guess I just find myself wondering why I can't have that thought more often, yanno? It's not much of a conscious choice (I certainly didn't "choose" to become attracted to that last girl), I just either "feel" it or I don't. I wish I knew why, more often than not, it's "don't".

 

Stop saying the same thing. Just stop. Enough, already.

 

Get off your butt, stop being so *&$% afraid of spending one-on-one time with a strange woman under the explicit guise of a possible romantic connection and start dating. That's how you'll experience these sorts of situations more often. Not by wasting time indulging in your bizarre and counterproductive self-absorption here in the forums.

 

This is my last effort with you. I don't think you're here for any advice whatsoever. I think you enjoy staying in your head spinning your wheels while you get the same advice over and over again.

 

Yanno?

[Blue Spiral]

OP: from what I've heard, dating isn't very fun for us picky, overanalytical types. If you don't think you'll enjoy something, don't let others pressure you into doing it. You might be better off just "hanging out" with groups that include women, seeing if you feel anything with anyone (it sounds like you probably won't), and quickly moving on until you find someone you like.

[MattW]

This is my last effort with you. I don't think you're here for any advice whatsoever. I think you enjoy staying in your head spinning your wheels while you get the same advice over and over again.

 

Yanno?

 

The problem isn't that I "enjoy" it, rather, it's that I can't figure out to "get OUT" of my head. I feel like I'm stuck in there. I can see what I want, and I can express it, but I just can't seem to be able to get myself to do anything. I still can't see the logic in asking out and going out with girls I don't feel some kind of attraction (whether big or small) to. The whole concept of that just seems bizarre and odd to me. Ideally, I'd like to have a "friends first" kind of start with a girl. Ideally, I'd like to meet and befriend people (preferably through current friends, if possible, at least in the beginning) first, then decide if I think I'd like to date them. I just haven't figured out how to take a step towards THAT direction, and make THAT happen yet.

[FYI]

A close mouth doesn't get fed.

 

The grass is greener only where you water it.

 

Plants come up out of the ground for sunlight.

[blueidealist24]

OP: from what I've heard, dating isn't very fun for us picky, overanalytical types. If you don't think you'll enjoy something, don't let others pressure you into doing it. You might be better off just "hanging out" with groups that include women, seeing if you feel anything with anyone (it sounds like you probably won't), and quickly moving on until you find someone you like.

 

You know what, the hanging out with women in groups thing is probably a good solution to the problem.. that way you aren't even committing to being one-on-one with any specific girl, but you can still get to know girls.