Why would he do this?

[lavenderdove]

OK, first and foremost, i think you are now finally getting to know the REAL him. and it is not such a pretty picture!

 

People put their best foot forward in the beginning, but you only dated 5 months and honestly that's not enough to REALLY know him.

 

So what have you discovered? He enjoys playing games with women. and multiple women. And i'm really not sure he is telling you the truth about everything that is going on in his life and his choices. You *think* he didn't leave to see other women, but you can't be sure about that. And you have evidence that he might well still be seeing or 'working on' exes in the same way he is fooling around with you.

 

And he thinks he's going to become a soccer star at 31? I mean, really??? Extremely unrealistic. He behaved with you for awhile because he saw you as being in school and wanting a guy who had his act together, but after a few months trying to play the guy who had his act together, he's back to wanting to play sports like a teenager and not finishing his school or doing anything else 'hard', just bumming around with his buddies playing soccer and dropping in to flirt now and again.

 

A really important thing is that people don't leave you when they really love and want you. They leave you because being with you conflicts with somethign they want MORE than you, whether that is freedom, or the right to see multiple girls, or to bum around playing sports and pretending it's a career move or whatever. He's attracted to you in a LIMITED way as long as it doesn't conflict with his freedom and right to bum around and play sports and not really accomplish anything at all. He likes his freedom and to pursue whatever catches his fancy at the moment, whether that is you, or soccer, or some other girl from his present or his past. His 'plan' for his life is to pursue his whims and pleasure, not to build a normal and stable life.

 

So his little breakup with you has in the end accomplished just want he wanted... he still has you hoping for a future with him, while he is totally free to do as he pleases and see any woman he pleases, including you or anyone else. Great spot for him to be in, nothing in that for you.

 

And he keeps dangling little carrots in front of you to keep you interested, but has actually offered you NOTHING AT ALL!!

 

If he loved you and was serious about you, he'd be with you, working on plans for a future with you, working on a relationship with you, not babbling about playing soccer and if you're a good girl maybe in some future time or universe he MIGHT reward you with his presence. He's just goofing off and goofing around and not getting serious about anybody or anything, which is a really bad sign at his age. He wants all of his options perpetually open (including you), but no obligation to actually show up and be responsible to you or work towards building a serious relationship with you.

 

You need to sit down and think about what you REALLY want. I suspect reading your posts that you want a stable and loving relationship and a home and a family, and frankly this guy looks like a terrible prospect for that and won't even commit to school, or a reasonable career, or a normal BF/GF relationship with you.

 

I met a guy who was 29 and wanted to be a 'sportscaster' mainly because he enjoyed drinking beer and watching sports. And he had many opportunities to go to college or actually achieve something, but just drifted from job to job accomplishing nothing with his life while babbling about all the things he wanted to do. He is now 52, divorced twice, and living in his brother's basement without a job, where both wives eventually threw him out because he lose jobs on purpose and live off them while watching sports on TV as his main occupation.

 

This guy of yours reminds me very much of that. He's more than willing to talk about what he SHOULD do, or what he COULD do, or what he MIGHT do, but the bottom line is he's not pursuing an education or a future or a serious relationship. He's playing soccer, talking to a bunch of girls and exes, and doing drunken drivebys to amuse himself.

 

I'm sorry, but you are really wasting your time here. This guy doesn't want to get it together, he wants all his options open and floats in and out of various things and people on a whim. Don't waste more time on him.

[Amandacast57]

PS: 30 mins left - please try to respond faster.

 

I still haven't said anything

[Autumnleaves]

I think Lavenderdove has given you brilliant advice there. I agree with what she says.

[Nattersmatter]

No, I meant respond faster to ME.

 

Tsk, never mind - we're not going to have time to do this in small steps. So here's the plan...

 

Text (by mobile phone or computer) is Door Number 1.

A live phonecall is Door Number 2.

A driveby is Door Number 3.

A STOP-BY is Door Number 4.

 

He tried Door 3 followed by Door 1. If you ignore those as well as Door 1, number 4 is what he'll try next. (If he FAILS to, that just gives you the confirmation you need that he's truly *not* determined - even in 'one half', the still-healthy side, of his mind - to get you unless it involves someone else (you) doing the work.)

 

But you must not OPEN Door 4/your front door. And I'll tell you why:

 

He doesn't believe your prior hot air about other irons (blokes) in the fire. Today is *Saturday*. He's undoubtedly done the drive-by BEFORE the text because all he's really after is to know what (or who) you're doing OR because he wanted to know whether the risk of texting you wouldn't be met with a non-response... because it's Saturday night and he has no other date options... so you'll do (hence why he wasn't texting you days ago to BOOK you).

 

So this is why you mustn't answer the door. Either GO out for real or make like you are. Only if he BELIEVES there are other men 'on his patch' will he actually do what it takes to see them off by getting you back... PROPERLY back... which by any common sense requires him asking you to be his proper girlfriend again.

 

Note, I still don't agree with you taking him back. Not because a guy like this with at least ONE half of his mind determined to be a player can't be turned around with the right training but because I don't have confidence in your savviness specifically (sorry) when it comes to consistently doing it the right way. But so what? That doesn't stop you from "wishing" he would turn himself around - which in your case means still being too mentally engaged TO actually walk away. So that's fine - your only option is to stay with this BUT DO IT PROPERLY SO THAT IT HAS A CHANCE OF WORKING.

 

I'll guide you through the process more towards the bitter end, bearing in mind the POSSIBILITY that the end might NOT be bitter, that he's trainable via you giving him constant carrot enough to keep him fixated on *you* rather than the other way round, for a critical enough period of time ...by the end of which he really WILL be genuinely too attached to you to have any option other THAN do a proper, grown-up relationship with you.

 

...unless you tell me right now you've decided AGAINST this relationship and are willing to do No Contact with the purpose in mind of healing *away* from this relationship?

 

xoxo

[Amandacast57]

He knows I'm going to a Christmas party tonight

[Nattersmatter]

(Lack of comment over being ready to commit to walking away, most definitely noted.)

 

Christmas party? It's only the 9th! LOL

 

But, anyway...

 

So, then...what we have here, obviously is him trying the exact same thing he tried last time you were due to go out somewhere without him where you'd be fair game, which is to try to get you fixating on him so that you'll be too bothered and distracted to be receptive or, worst case scenario, attractive to other single males on the prowl... so that he doesn't lose his cushily convenient thing *and* because he doesn't trust you/women not to "cheat" on him. Cos of course, he's the only one allowed to do any cheating.

 

Well, in that case - even BETTER that you don't respond to his attention-seeking and-hogging text.

 

I know you can read this from your phone so... Do yourself a favour: if you get quite drunk, *don't* weaken and send him anything in response. The idea, remember - vis-a-vis the Doors analogy - is for you to never respond to the text at all, like he never even sent it and as if your attention is most firmly on another man who's just stepped onto your path. And then...FINALLY... we'll get to see indisputably just how much he (or his healthy half) wants you, right?

 

Be aware that these types of men usually try knocking more than just the once at the one same door before they ("uh-duuh") decide they'd better progress to a more "committed" action via the next more serious door up. So it won't just be this one text (or email) that you'll have to blank.

 

Following these will probably come the phonecall. The object here is NOT to blank it (because we don't want him to think it's Game Over) but as aforementioned, to leave his urge to speak to you moreover dissatisifed... Egos like his do *not* like to be thwarted. So it's, *sounding* like you're pleased to hear from him yet simultaneously sincerely sorry-sounding that you can't talk just now because you're on your way out (yadder-yadder) but you'll call him back either later or tomorrow. ...And then you don't.

 

So are we clear on what you're doing/what you shouldn't do for the foreseeable few days?

 

xoxo

[lavenderdove]

>>he's trainable via you giving him constant carrot enough to keep him fixated on *you* rather than the other way round, for a critical enough period of time ...by the end of which he really WILL be genuinely too attached to you to have any option other THAN do a proper, grown-up relationship with you.

 

OK, i think that isn't the best advice because there is no set 'formula' that will 'bring a man to heel'... in fact, people are very complicated, and they will elicit a myriad of responses and outcomes to every possible situation based on their histories, backgrounds, beliefs, feelings, needs, attraction, psychological strengths or weakness etc. etc. And chance plays a BIG role in everything, such as you could be 'working' that program/game to get him back, and he meets some hot girl he thinks is nicer and is gone in a flash in spite of all your efforts and games.

 

If games like that worked, someone would already be a gazillionaire after selling that formula and nobody would have ever broken up!

 

and it is really a non sequitur to think that dandling your hot body in front of him like a carrot will instantly herd him into a proper mature relationship with you. the two have absolutely no cause and effect relationship. Personal growth into a mature and responsible person is internal to him, and not because you manipulate him. And unless he is stupid, people can and do KNOW when someone is playing games and manipulating them (they will eventually catch on) and they really, really hate that and resent it.

 

If you want a good relationship, you have to communicate clearly and the other person also has to have the same desires and goals that you do. You can't trick him into that, or i should say it may work for a short while, then he'll be deeply resentful that you tried to 'train' him or herd him like a sheep in the direction you wanted him to go. People sell these silly internet pamphlets all the time on 'getting your ex back' that advise playing ILL-ADVISED games, and the only person who gets anything is the person selling the pamphlet!

[Nattersmatter]

Perfectly reasonable points, Lavendardove. And here my equally reasonable answers (which I have in fact already addressed more than once on this very thread):

 

No, it isn't the best advice. Certainly not if a permanent union is your sole aim. The best advice (which you've witnessed me trying repeatedly to give) is that Amanda simply walks away from this seeming loser onto the next candidate whom - via her now-improved character judgement and selection abiilty courtesy of this latest addition with which to round off her experience of user types - facilitates her spotting thus accepting advances from someone with whom winning is highly likely in the first place.

 

But this is not an option at the moment. Why? Because [1] Amanda - by now all too glaringly-obviously (surely??!) - is not the type who will come away CONVINCED that she has dedicated sufficient or varied-enough attempts at success to unequivocally conclude "failure" due to futility (of the variety). She is not the type to take on board and act upon second-hand knowledge/conclusions rather than her own first-hand. And there is nothing wrong with that insistence on walking her own learning curve ...nothing *whatsoever*. And [2], whether or not she knows it herself, a permanent pairbonding is not her exclusive agenda. In case you hadn't noticed? - she is a born STUDENT.

 

Or what do you propose we do - verbally beat her into submission of doing the sensible, more life-time-efficient thing? And how can you state with any confidence that her attempts absolutely can't and won't yield success in the long run in the first place just because - demonstrable through the very fact of what you say - you personally haven't either attempted it or witnessed attempts by A N Other(s) to point of success, with or without your guidance or indepth coaching?

 

For your info - I *have* ...on on both counts..many more times than once. And, unlike the so-called "experts", I haven't ever charged for this particular input, either - which is precisely how I can formulate advice *devoid* of the sneaky ingredients as inevitably create a need for further advice as each time calls correspondingly for further payments (including the fact that the so-called solutions provided work only for a limited period thanks to their being designed to stimulate only the man's ego, as well as that they completely ignore any individual, highly influential, ever-changing variables as demand a constantly customised approach). So I in fact AGREE there's no "set formula".

 

People are actually *not* that complicated, though. What complicates is nature, experience, context and circumstance and which of these are influentials and when and to what degree. But even with these variables, there are still only a limited number of human responses available within each 'cocktail' of conditions - akin to the difference between the rate and precision with which a lead ball as opposed to a pingpong ball will follow a downward trajectory upon whatever surface type, given a specific wind from a specific direction within a specific climate and a specific initial launching force, etc., etc. So if you know enough about WHAT type of ball and conditions you have, you can work out its journey and its nature therein (meaning it's ultimately all just about knowing one set of balls from another, scuse deliberate pun).

 

Obviously success is a TWO-PERSONED affair. You can be as effective a coach as you like but if your 'trainee' doesn't have what it takes then "failure" obviously will be a given, yes. Where picking a winner towards success of *any* type of relationship end product is concerned - do I think Amanda has the willpower and self-discipline to swing it? I'm not sure, is my brutally honest answer. She has the intelligence by the sackful, that much equally is obvious, but she is lacking where complete, vital cooperation is concerned (you hearing this, Amanda?). And this is because she has trust issues (takes one to attract a counter-gendered one), especially when the environmental basis for building such isn't strictly orthodox (this forum).

 

However - and here is where I differ from the average - I wouldn't let that pathetically petty consideration stop me from accompanying her on this journey to greater knowledge about the self as well as about how the world and everything in it works, just because *I* might not get to chalk up what only on the surface appears to be a success, i.e. in its more conventional format. Win or lose in the short-term, there is much more success to be had in the LONGER run,...and I, just like Amanda, am (which is surely patently obvious by now) a long-distance-runner type as opposed to the quick-sprinter. And since, as I say, I have experienced success where nailing to the ceiling what only appeared to be jelly or was only temporarily so - how gobsmackingly arrogant and superior would I have to be to turn around to state to a similar but younger version of my type, No, you *can't* attempt the same things I attempted when I was your age and stage because I don't think you have it in you like I did!?

 

Pff...No, thanks. Everybody in this world is equal in every area until proven otherwise...on top of which, it takes more than merely one "failed" attempt to qualify as 'proven otherwise'. Or, what? Do you expect a toddler to walk accross a room first time without falling down even the once...simply because you, the non-toddler, can do it and "it's easy"?

 

I repeat - I had previously emotionally-unavailable or -downright closed off men falling at my feet with demonstrations of undying life-long commitment! Even the aforementioned Sneaky-Stalky, hugely-commitmentphobic Simon himself ended up blubbing down the phone begging for permanancy!... and this package of "triumphs" included specifically-geared, subtle psychological manipulations or none whatsoever in equal measure. So I know what it takes - in the minutest of detail given any change in circumstance or mind-shift, rapid or otherwise, you care to imagine - whether what one does comes naturally or not... and it *ain't* rocket science despite as you correctly point out there are plenty whom it would serve were you to believe it is (ker-ching!, kerching!, kerching!).

 

If you're clever, creative, flexible and resourceful enough, the men don't suspect a THING. *Ever*. And this is what was once an enviable, sadly now too-little-known, commonplace female art, Lavenderdove.... done SO artfully that the men did *not* end up resentful... because they got to stand on that winners podium themselves! Even if that weren't a consideration, men by their own methods manipulate women left, right and centre and have been for CENTURIES (again - in case you hadn't noticed?). What's sauce for the goose..../All's fair in love and war. Furthermore, who mentioned bodies, let alone hot ones?

 

Re clear communication: Have you ever TRIED communicating clearly and honestly with someone who, where you're concerned, consistently and/or systematically uses the main channels of communication merely and almost exclusively as some underhanded tool in order to gain and keep the serious advantage over you? I'm guessing not (again going by your statement). Trust me - that one *is* a case of trying to nail jelly!

 

All in all, this isn't about recommendation - mine or anyone else's. It is about what *Amanda* wants and especially needs and CLEARLY is hell-bent on attempting. And I respect that as well as fully understand it.

 

Don't you?

 

So, when it boils down to it, it would appear we agree on those "pamphlet"-peddlars, would it not? I'll thank you, however, not to tar me with their brush by inferrence or otherwise. For starters, not everyone wants to *be* a "gazillionnaire". Some of us - incredibly enough - are altruists, not least because we're early-retired, courtesy of already being financially sorted for life, thanks v much. But I appreciate your deep concern for Amanda's welfare nontheless, as, I'm sure, does she... on which note, please allow me to assure you that aside from winning in a way that holds most meaning and a lifetime of usefulness, she'll not foreseeably be coming out of this experience with a tag on her toe. ;-)

 

xoxo

 

PS: And again, in case you hadn't noticed - he *is*. Stupid, I mean. Certainly where stupid means too clouded and self-concerned to see beyond his own nose. Plus, you'd be surprised how instantly a *witting* baby can suddenly cease being so when the carrot is captivating enough.

[lavenderdove]

>>this package of "triumphs" included specifically-geared, subtle psychological manipulations or none whatsoever in equal measure. So I know what it takes - in the minutest of detail given any change in circumstance or mind-shift, rapid or otherwise, you care to imagine - whether what one does comes naturally or not... and it *ain't* rocket science despite as you correctly point out there are plenty whom it would serve were you to believe it is (ker-ching!, kerching!, kerching!).

 

^^

This is rather grandiose bragging that can't be proved one way or another, and honestly, it bears no relationship whatsoever to Amanda who has said she wants to build a loving, kind, equal relationship that leads to marriage and a family. It smacks of hauling a man on board with a grappling hook like a gasping fish which is not the model or basis for ANY good relationship. She doesn't want to bludgeon him into submission, she wants him to take responsibility for himself and his life and show her he is mature enough to give her what she wants and needs rather than jerking her around.

 

If the goal is loving relationship where they both respect each other and don't psychologically abuse one another to get their own ways, then trying to build that based on these kinds of manipulations and supposed tutelage that treats him like a man-baby who needs a mommy/siren/dominatrix to make him behave won't get her there. It could push his buttons and get a reaction out of him for a while, but it is NOT going to get her a permanent loving relationship built on mutual respect and consideration.

 

Why should she waste her time trying to bludgeon someone into loving her and committing to her? This falls into he category of 'be careful what you wish for' because she might be able to manipulate him into paying more attention to her, but once she 'lands' him, if what he really wants is to play soccer and bum around with his buddies and go out into the world to find that 'special' thing for himself, he is going to be miserable in the end, and so is she because Amanda's life will be about trying to force him into being a person he doesn't want to be, and living a life he doesn't find fulfilling. He's already told her that he feels that 'there must be more to life than this' and has broken up with her over it, so he is just not happy following a more traditional/responsible path to marriage and family.

 

It is exhausting trying to hammer a square peg into a round hole, and i think it is not a good idea to recommend anyone try to do that. she's better off spending her efforts to find someone who wants marriage and a family (and wants it soon rather than in some nebulous 'maybe' future), who also thinks she is so fabulous he can't wait to be with her and can't think of anywhere he'd rather be than by her side. And she shouldn't have to use a riding crop to make him do it either. That is what makes for lasting and fulfilling marriages.

[Nattersmatter]

Wow.

 

Really?

 

WOW...

 

You can call it bragging and even be so downright offensive as to outright label it grandiose or you can call it stating the truthful facts as occurred in reality thereby accompanied with a wholly warranted tone of confidence. It all depends on *your own attitude and agenda, hence what you'd rather not believe, really, doesn't it...As does your grossly exaggerated leap from subtle manipulation including counter-manipulation (as already somewhat demonstrated) to the over-extreme, not to mention violent, concepts of using a grappling hook, rendering the man a gasping fish, and his being in any way "bludgeoned"...all whilst completely failing to consider that even *passive* and perfectly rightful manipulation via his ego is not the sole tactic available nor the final one as opposed to a mere springboard ....or else I couldn't/wouldn't have witnessed first or second-hand success (despite, according to you, I didn't because I am a self-aggrandizing liar).

 

...An attitude and opinion of yours which may or may not or, again, may have far more to do with the fact that, having interrupted a so obviously time-pressured conversation between Amanda and myself at so patently an inappropriate moment (as if merely waiting a while had been so totally out of the question), with an opinion which actually at this juncture is, I'm sorry to say, nothing Amanda hasn't heard before - as if all forums automatically permit a serious lowering of normal social decorum - yet having seen your post go totally unacknowledged by either of us, created in you a sense of humiliation thus resentment as then triggered an urge to hit out and with too little self-restraint?

 

For the Nth time, Amanda has also unequivocally proven by her consistent *actions* that what lately comes out of her mouth vis-a-vis what she wants bears no relation to her truer, deeper-down feelings. However, you are perfectly free to ask her outright to account for this incongruency, if you like, despite at this point she may still be undecided as to which mere directional option she wishes to consider, anyway? ...Although, ...perhaps on that score I know something you don't, Lavenderdove?

 

HOWEVER, considering you have exposed your current attitude and agenda towards me in such an outrightly offensive manner, I think it best that I opt to be the adult here, nip this so-called debate in the bud and thereby cease to engage with you for even another minute.

 

xoxo

[agent1607307371]

Mod Note: Please remain civil and on topic. Thank you.

[Nattersmatter]

Dear Agent,

 

Please would you be specific regarding whom between the two of us you're addressing? Otherwise, it may get mistaken for being aimed at me when the evidence showed I myself remained perfectly respectful as well as refrained 100% from slinging personal insults by implication or otherwise.

 

Many thanks.

[afr0dite]

At least he cares about you enough to say that he's sorry he hurt you. I know it doesn't take away from the pain he caused when he broke up with you, but it's something. I'm sorry for what you're going through.

[Nattersmatter]

You there, Amanda? Or are you giving your thread a wide berth? LOL And have you still managed to refrain from responding to his rat-a-tat-tat on your 'window'?

 

xoxo

[Nattersmatter]

(That was a sweet thing to say, afr0dite.

[Michele15]

Please stay away from this guy, one of the times my ex and I ole up was for these reasons. I took him back and he only came back when I cut contact. He used the excuse he was depressed, needed to more with his life, wanted to travel not be tried down but still loved me. We went to a head doctor came back begging and 6 mos later be breaks up with me for another girl. He wasn't traveled, got a better job or any of the things he wanted. He will dumped this girl too probably when she doesn't fill the void. It's not you it's really him. Don't let him bring you down with him. It's so hard I know

[agent1607307371]

@Nattersmatter, it refers to everyone posting on this thread.

[Amandacast57]

At least he cares about you enough to say that he's sorry he hurt you. I know it doesn't take away from the pain he caused when he broke up with you, but it's something. I'm sorry for what you're going through.

 

The problem is, is it sincere?? It feels that way BUT you never know

[Amandacast57]

This update is exclusively for Nattersmatter and anyone else whose brand of support includes allowing me to moreover choose and retain control over my own particular exploration route, styles of endeavour and nature, as well as attempts to work WITH this choice of mine rather than against it in terms of guidance including adjustments. Further non-constructive criticism, i.e. over my actual path itself, will regrettably be considered pointless in responding to. Thanks.

 

I continued to ignore him throughout the day. I had to get ready to meet my friend for dinner and then we were headed to a Christmas party that her friend was hosting. He had texted me again and I responded, but I was kind of mean. I told him that it didn't mean anything when he said "I miss you" because if he didn't make any time to see me, then he obviously didn't miss me THAT much. I went on to tell him how time shouldn't be a factor if you care about someone. I said "Look at Beth Anne and Nick" (That is my sister and her boyfriend). She is away at school which is 1.5 hours away from where Nick lives. Yet, they still have a relationship. His response was that they had a friendship, meaning, he didn't feel like we had much of a friendship. And I said well they have a romantic friendship and he said "Well yea, isn't that what we have?". But his point was that he didn't feel like we were friends, that we weren't communicating very well (which I agree). He would be upset and would blow things out of proportion and I felt like I couldn't have a conversation with him if I was upset about something. Anyways, I went to the party and he said "text me later" and I said "No, you text me later". He did and asked me if I wanted to spend some time together on Sunday (last night).

 

I agreed but told him that I had things I needed to do/people I needed to see and when I was done with that, I would see him. I ended up hanging out with him at 5:30pm.

 

SN: He does these things that are so sweet and has been doing them lately (although I try not to acknowledge them - not sure if I should or not). Last night he was making us dinner and I got up to help and he said "No, go sit back down". He brought me my food and drink and wanted to make sure I had everything I needed. I had found my cheerleading DVDs from high school (we had someone tape us and make it into a "memory" video). He watched them with me (which I didn't expect him to do). Then we went downstairs so I could watch tv and he folded laundry. He goes "Why don't you like me as much as I like you?". I was like "***?". A little bit later he asked "Why can't we go on dates?". I don't know where he is getting this stuff from. Um, ask me!!! I never said we couldnt go on dates.

 

He then told me that Friday night he couldn't sleep and felt like something was up. He told me that he drove by my house. But the thing is, he said he saw a red car parked in my drive way. I'm 99.9% sure that there was not. My roommate's car was parked on the left hand side and mine was parked on the right. She left to go out around 11pm so that left an empty spot beside my car. Now, my neighbor has a red car but our drive ways are clearly separated by a flower bed. I'm not sure if he was trying to get me to admit something BUT, NO ONE was at my house. I also explained to him that on both ends, it is probably a VERY BAD IDEA to introduce anyone else into the picture. I told him I wasn't interested in just sleeping with someone because if him and I were to work things out, it would probably create too many trust and jealousy issues. And the same for him. I wouldn't want to work things out if he was just going around sleeping with other people. And he brought up the "remaining into and loyal to each other". Said he wouldn't have asked that if he didn't mean it. I told him things about him that bothered me in regards to having a future together. I felt like he made it a point to ALWAYS be right, regardless of whether or not he was. He agreed. I don't want a relationship where we keep "tabs" on who is right or wrong. I want a relationship where we can talk about things that bother us. I told him that I wasn't sure if he would be able to handle me. I'm a girl. I have moments of insecurity, jealousy, mood changes, etc. I want someone who can embrace that and make me feel better.

 

He also went on to say that he finds it easier to not put himself in situations where he can be let down or hurt. I responded that that wasn't very fulfilling. And anyways, UM HELLO, what does he think I'm doing? I'm certainly putting myself in a situation to get hurt. Although he swears that he isn't interested in any girls, scrolled through his text messages and then said "even though you don't think so, you are the only girl that I care about and that I consider" (Yea....sure???). He asked me why I never complimented him. He said he always tells me I look nice, etc but that I never compliment him, etc. He said the only thing I do is complain about why he won't commit. Of course I went on with a list of things I've complimented him on. He also said that he was sorry if he didn't thank me for the times I made his bed but that it meant a lot to him. I know it seems silly but I'm NOT a bed maker. I think it is pointless. But I make his bed every time I leave his house.

 

So we laid together and watched tv. He asked me if I wanted to come over tonight and he would cook me dinner. He said "I'll need to study but you can still come over".

 

Weird, huh? I thought he didn't have "time". Granted, finals are this week so the semester is pretty much over BUT, I thought it was a problem for me to be over there when he needed to study????

 

I want to believe he is genuine but it is hard to. So I just try not to pay much attention to anything he says. There is no point in trying to hold on to everything he says and try to analyze it.

 

So when I said I'll know my breaking point...it is because I've been in a similar situation. Although the previous situation I was in was when a guy I was seeing broke up with me to sleep with other girls and told me straight up that was the case. But he would manipulate me to stick around, which I did, for 8 long months. And then randomly, in what seemed over night, he wanted to work things out. I tried, I really did, but I couldn't get past the pain he caused. He cried and cried about how the tables had turned and he was scared to lose me. But I walked away with my head high, knowing I put in all the effort I could. And to this day he regrets EVERYTHING he did.

 

So I think what my ex should decide is which is worse: the pain of regret for losing someone you love or the POSSIBLE pain of getting hurt. If he wanted to take things slow, date, get to know each other more, have a "romantic friendship"...I'm ok with that. He made a comment that our relationship is going to be weird for a little bit. I asked him what that meant and he said "together but without the title". So anyways, if he wants to do what I mentioned above, so that he can feel more secure and trustworthy about a relationship, I'm honestly ok with that as long as that means that there is NO other women, including suggestive texts to other women. That means no lies or secrets.

[Nattersmatter]

Thank-you, moderator. In that case, I'll simply allow the record itself to stand as full testimony. xoxo

[Nattersmatter]

You're impressively brave, Amanda. You've had a lot of criticism over wanting to stick with this, so - high five!

 

As for the incidents themselves:

 

Although you certainly didn't do badly - au contraire, considering how hard it is (as Michele kindly acknowledged) as well as how premature in terms of how upsetting and thought-clouding this still-fresh situation normally is, you kept your head and your convictions REALLY well, there!

 

The one thing you failed to do was to sieze the opportunity through him having repositioned things *above* table to that extent. I refer specifically to the bigger picture:

 

 

 

I personally would have said something like, 'In that case, absolutely *NOT*. The title is a fundamental. I am NOT going to agree to doing a job without its status label and wages and nor am I without - according to you - its "mere" label. If the label is so darned immaterial then you should cease contradicting that claim by so heavily trying to avoid taking it on. So *when* you're prepared to give me the private and public recognition of your girlfriend, I will recommence BEHAVING like one, including giving you any loyalty or, indeed, any more of my precious time.'

 

He clearly does want to keep you, can you not see that? So make him have to do so equally on YOUR terms.

 

Because without the title, Amanda, you have zero right to EXPECT no other women, etc., and he has no onus to remain faithful or even consistent in his attempts to see you. Meanwhile, he gets to tell other women, 'Do I have a girlfriend? Why, no, I don't' which means he doesn't have to view himself as a cheater, no better (in fact WORSE) than the ex who (allegedly) cheated on him as destroyed his confidence in the first place.

 

It's not too late to have 'had time to reflect' and think better of his (so-called) proposal. Its a woman's prerogative to change her mind, doncha know?

 

It is *not-not-NOT* "just a title", Amanda, it really isn't.

 

xoxo

[Nattersmatter]

...If you just keep holding out for what you want - which is nothing out of the ordinary or over-demanding, just THE NORM - he will HAVE to be the one to cave or lose you altogether (which he seems not to want to at this stage). He's testing you...seeing just what he can still get away with. Show him, not the bog-standard fundamentals, pal, oh, no, NO. xoxo

[Nattersmatter]

And if you want the proof of that, it's this:

 

and I said "No, you text me later". He did and asked me if I wanted to spend some time together on Sunday (last night).

 

See? You refuse to agree and HE DROPS IT.

 

xoxo

[Nattersmatter]

PS: I'll analyse the he saids/she saids later after supper. xoxo

[Nattersmatter]

It was a very long supper, LOL...

 

First we'll do you (oo-er)... Your marked improvements both over what you said and thought but kept to yourself:

 

 

 

 

WHO THE HECK ARE YOU, MRS SKEPTICAL-CYNICAL-HIGHLY-RETICENT-I-AIN'T-'AVIN-IT-UNBACKDOWNABLE-CONFIDENT-OF-YOUR-NEEDS-CONVICTIONS, AND WHAT HAVE YOU DONE WITH AMANDA?! LOL

 

*Despite* you obviously wouldn't at this early point have been so clear and super-confident as to have grabbed that above-table opportunity to assert the coup d'etat demanding of your rights - 8 out of 10. That's more beeping like it! (Not long now...)

 

xoxo