Why would he do this?

[Nattersmatter]

Now him... Black for bravery and honesty and Blue is for (totally thwarted) BS or emotional-blackmailing attempt and half-and-half for...well - half-and-half:

 

 

 

See the shift starting to happen?...and not that slowly, either?! Even where we can suspect he was BS-ing/manipulating, the admissions themselves are still technically brave due to their non-impressive, self-humiliating aspect. So if you actually tot it all up, you had more open honesty and bravery concerning willing vulnerability there than you had him falling back on the usual, hard-ingrained BS/manipulation habits.

 

If we are to believe he doesn't want other women despite that wouldn't stop him from trying to place them as safetynets even for reasons merely to do with over-self-protection attempt - it's actually rather petty and pathetic for him to want to stand his ground over the relationship title aspect. Methinks this is in large part just his ego not wanting to have to yield *everything* he's been digging his heels in over.

 

But look again at what happens the minute you're firm yet insistent (which includes keeping it short and simple - En-oh-means-no - YOU do it): "Yes, ma'am, no, ma'am, three bags full, ma'am!!!"... HE DOES IT AND NO WHINGING! So although mum clearly set him up to NEED being directed, motivated, bossed around, etc. in the first place, clearly whenever she did take the trouble to rise up to meet his BS and manipulation attempts, i.e. finally put her foot down, he knew to instantly cease pushing and trying it on. It's evidently Strong Mum you want to emulate...Strong, Secret/Subtle Mum, not the lazy mum who'd overlook his crimes for a quiet life and thereby taught him that tenaciously pushing and testing someone's patience to get your spoiled baby way was always eventually WORTH IT - even if what he pushed for wasn't even something he *wholeheartedly* wanted over and above merely a chance to assert his ego and score an I'm-So-Clever-And-Persuasive point.

 

You can get him OUT of that habit. All you have to do to get him playing fair, doing *his* hard work for himself, is stand your ground clearly, simply and firmly AND NEVER, EVER FOLD no matter how tired you are or HOW many distraction tactics he throws at you whereby you give him the very choccie biccie you'd just spent the last X hours saying NO and explaining why to! (You're right - he's a superb practise-run for when you have a kiddie! LOL). Once made enough times to do his own 'chores' and (which was obviously what was missing with mum) (was she a single parent by any chance??) *rewarded* each and every time, he'll finally grow in confidence where being proactive (and SETTING the good example) is concerned plus learn that he ain't gonna be happy unless YOU'RE happy.... that you're interdependents... that there IS no "I" in Relationship and nor is there any such thing as eating your cake but still getting to keep it. No work = No Perks...none... not even a wee bite of the corner.

 

He was mistreating you, mucking you around, trying to gain the advantage - even if that meant being a player - BECAUSE UP UNTIL BEGINNING-NOW, YOU HAD BEEN GIVING HIM EVERY REASON TO BELIEVE IT WAS (- same as with mum and other inconsistently strong women) WORTH A RELENTLESS BASH to the point where the chances of getting it were BETTER THAN NOT.

 

I think the side of him that does want a for-life relationship (of course he flippin' does - HE'S HUMAN, ISN'T HE?!), dumped you BECAUSE, having entered the Conflict Stage prematurely, you were letting him get away with too much...and men don't deeper down like that because they are wired to live for the love of a good woman ("Men love women, Women love kids, Kids love hamsters") and rely on seeing high value in her when it comes to feeling inspired and motivated to work hard (or take a bath, LOL).

 

So you were basically a lazy moo-moo, Amanda... allowed yourself to luxuriate in the Honeymoon High instead of doing your job of selector and critic (Secret Simon Cowell). Common mistake. *Too* common these days, in fact.

 

See it now? You cannot afford to be the gentle, docile, over-trusting girlie-girlie woman for real. The little woman, cooing woman, flattering woman, always-impressed/too-easily-impressed woman should be a SURFACE ACT as part of the mating *GAME* and which is nowhere near the genuine case behind that stage curtain despite when you do self-assert - not AGGRESS and go b*tch-moan-b*tch-moan-nag-nag without lifting an actual finger! - you do so in *calm, confident, unbending* ways.

 

Men

Note

and BELIEVE

and REACT to

*Actions*.

 

You carry on acting like the Queen you are and you'll pretty soon have him worshipping you at your feet... particularly if despite you hold that power you USE IT FAIRLY AND WITH HIS BEST INTERESTS EQUALLY IN MIND.

 

*Secret Mum, Public Fan*.

 

 

So!

 

Are you going to actually PLACE that crown on your head, whereupon he recognises you're worth worshiping, in the form of post-reflectively holding out nicely but firmly and fairly for the recognised title? Or are you going to stay sat there saying, 'The bar is set only so high cos I don't expect much what with not being worth much'. ???

 

xoxo

[Amandacast57]

Ill reply more in depth later but what do I say when he tells me I don't like anything about him? He said it again last night. He said that I just complain about him. I feel like if I tell him all the things I like about him, it doesn't help my cause and makes me feel vulnerable. But on the other hand, I want him to feel comfortable and not feel guarded because he thinks I don't like him.

 

But yea, last night I wanted to cook dinner so he studied while I cooked. He told me how great the meal was and how he has loved everything I cooked.

 

I told him that my roommate had selfishly invited her mom and 2 sisters to stay at our small house this weekend (apparently we will have people in our living room sleeping on the couch and a blow up mattress). He told me I could stay with him if I wanted.

 

When we were getting ready for bed, we talked some about his ex fiancé. I asked him what made him want to marry her? He said she was good to him, she was religious, his parents liked her, she liked active activities and then said do you see the similarities? (That was in regards to it scaring him that her and I were so similar). Then he said that he likes to get to know someone, that he can't just give everything of his to someone.

 

I can't remember what I specifically said but I said something about him having sex with someone else. He said "you're the only person I'm sleeping with" and I said "yea, for now" and in a more stern voice he said "you're the only person I'm sleeping with". I also brought up him saying he didnt love me when we broke up and he said "it's not that I don't, I just can't commit to it" (whatever that means).

 

This morning he kissed me bye, told me how awesome my dinner was, that he hoped I felt better (I have a ruptured cyst), that he loved snuggling with me and that he left coffee upstairs for me and just remember to turn off the coffee pot.

[Nattersmatter]

You say something like this (cos I've had this guilt-tripping, manipulation-attempting BS before, better believe it!):

 

Stop being so silly when the evidence of my ACTIONS says irrefutably otherwise! I.e., Look at the nonsense you've been giving me for the last X months. Yet I'm still HERE, aren't I? *Case closed*.... or do you think I'm some kind of stupid masochist? Cos if you do, pal - you're wrong with a capital W and you'd do well to cease duping and tripping yourself up like that starting RIGHT NOW! ...You're really not thinking straight lately, are you. HOWEVER, if you don't like me having to complain when you do things that any sane, reasonable woman of worth would object to and complain about , either get yourself a woman of low worth or - even more simple - cease this silly thinking which makes you act out in stupid, self-defeating ways in the first place.

 

Lecturing? Yes. But highly reassuring in all the right ways? YOU BETCHA!

 

He DOESN'T not think you like him. He's just paranoid in case he's wrong about the fact you DO. This is just his PLOY...

 

...Because this is the deepest crux with event-reactive or childhood-reactive or even natural commitmentphobes, Amanda (whom necessarily and automatically tend to be your ultra-sensitive types for starters): they need far more reassuring that it's safe to place their heart and trust in your hands than the average person before they'll dare lower themselves more deeply into that hot bathwater rather than standing there ooching and owing. FAR more. Once given the all-clear signal - to THEIR satisfaction - however...in they plunge...and then you have just as much trouble getting them OUT again! LOL ("Hello, Simon, Hello too numerous CP exes!")....assuming you ever want them to, that is.

 

But you do have to look at yourself and your own behaviour too. Fact - Commitmentphobic males attract Commitmentphobic females. You may not realise you're commitmentphobic just because you SAY all the right things and do all the right trivial actions. But it's deep-down actions these types of men note most.

 

For example: Tenure (which is why I'm telling you to switch his focus to your feet). After a while, tenure itself - ESPECIALLY if it exists despite other women would have slapped their faces and bogged off long before now - becomes the overriding factor. However, sticking around whilst they behave like prats does *not* automatically mean you TAKE that nonsense! The message must be this: You are not purely the sum of your crimes. However, you're not getting to enjoy me whilst you ARE behaving like that. You don't threaten to end it (unless the crimes are very big). You just threaten DEPRIVATION, aka separation. PROPER separation: no choccie biccie for MONTHS!

 

I think the bottom line here is your radars: you don't quite spot or appreciate the meaning of every "bunch of roses" he throws into the realm of your radar and he doesn't where what you throw is concerned, either - but worse. HIS radar's too busy being tuned constantly to DANGEROUS MISSILES.

 

So, really, he's just fishing for compliments as a way to gain positive signs of reassurance and safety. So you need to (for a while) keep pointing out your positive actions, get him fixated on what your feet do until it becomes a habit. And then your mere words cease being mere words but supporters and heralders. (Same rule for him, too.)

 

You also need to reverse psychology a CP a lot, as well...a la, 'Why don't you go out with the boys this Friday? It'll do you good.' This is one way in which the ego works, you see (and no' a lo' of people know dis): Imagine you don't like apples. You've only tried a couple before but decided they're not your thing. So you shy away from eating them. Now imagine some authority issue an edict that you, Amanda, it has been decided, are - never MIND that you don't like them anyway - NOT ALLOWED to eat another apple for the rest of your life! Your ego doesn't LIKE you being hemmed in or denied or deprived. It likes choices. (Indeed, the way to make a human most miserable is to take away all of their options for freewill choice.) This prohibition starts itching your brain. However, conscious people are stupid... so they end up misinterpreting that itch as meaning, 'I MUST WANT - specifically - an apple!!!'....and off you go, hell-bent, to get one.

 

If it became YOUR choice that he should go out every Friday night with the lads - what is, despite merely delivered in the nicest, most concerned way possible, AN ORDER - he won't like that and will at some inevitable point rebel.

 

It depends on the person and isn't guaranteed to always work, but it usually does...and always on those who are DefCon-ed/distracted by fears, etc. LOL - hell - look at you and all the 'Stop doing it/Don't do it, Amandas!!!' everyone on here's been giving you. Need I say more?

 

I told him that my roommate had selfishly invited her mom and 2 sisters to stay at our small house this weekend (apparently we will have people in our living room sleeping on the couch and a blow up mattress). He told me I could stay with him if I wanted.

 

WELL DONE YOU!!! You got a whole weekend, look! And THAT'S the way to do it: just hint. Let *him* have the very clever, all-too-heroic idea for a brilliant solution (isn't he clever, LOL, LOL).

 

Ah, brilliant. I think you've turned a corner, Amanda.

 

Wait up! I trust you accepted with an appropriately big thank-you/what would I do without you smile? And I hope you weren't TOO grateful (remembering that the applause should be in proportion to the performance)?

 

that he can't just give everything of his to someone.

 

Oh, yeah, he *can*. Just not to someone who might just turn around and stomp on it.

 

"it's not that I don't, I just can't commit to it" (whatever that means).

 

And ditto.

 

It looks like he's decided *against* being a player. Keep up the good work (or I'll be round to bang both your heads together, LOL). BUT DON'T WHATEVER YOU DO RELAX. You must NEVER relax. You keep those eagle eyes peeled and NIP ALL TROUBLE IN THE BUD! Because successful/long-lasting romantic relationships aren't ABOUT relaxing. They are "hard, hard work"... but with hard, hard rewards. So the minute he starts up again? *BAM!!!*...down on him like a ton of bricks - with your *feet* - but nicely, calmly, self-respectfully, with dignity, with as few words or fuss as possible, a la, 'Tut-tut - your loss - look what you did,... no choccie biccie for hours/days/weeks/months - how stupid are you?'

 

xoxo

[Amandacast57]

Ok...well this morning after he left, he texted me about how he actually didnt make the playoffs (we play in a fantasy football league and the top 4 make it to the playoffs and he got a consolation game). So he threw a bit of a fit. I told him sorry, that he could give me his good players and help me win and then we could go out to dinner with the money. He never responded. I then said so what you said last night about me not liking anything about you, that's not true. And I listed off the things I like about him. He hasn't said anything and that was at 9am.

 

I shouldn't say anything else right? I'm not sure if he's just throwing a temper tantrum about the football or if he's busy studying because I know he has his final tonight.

 

I have my company christmas party tonight (which he knows about). I should just get ready and go and not say anything else

[Amandacast57]

Scratch that. He just said "Those are very nice. 😍

I was extremely busy today welding pipes for new equipment. I reviewed at lunch. Getting ready to go take my exam now."

[Nattersmatter]

Good except for this:

 

So he threw a bit of a fit. I told him sorry, that he could give me his good players and help me win and then we could go out to dinner with the money.

 

Mwack-mwack-OOOPS! *He* Tarzan, you JANE! And don't anyone give me any of that modern women and -isms cr*p; that lot belong in the office and your family and friendship groups, NOT on the mating ground. On the mating ground during the wooing stage, you ask for nothing, offer nothing, sit there looking good, doing your best to be and look nothing LIKE a man, and ***responding*** according to whether what he does is worth a smile/applause or being marked down, whilst HE is the one who asks and acts in order to get. It's how well you RESPOND that dictates how and how fast the relationship will progress, not how well you grab the steering wheel off him or, god forbid, do the actual driving. He's the driver, you're the (secret/subtle) navigator.

 

If he mentions it, take the opportunity to say it was just a fantasy invitation over a fantasy meal in accordance with the overall fantasy of the game itself... "but a nice fantasy nonetheless".

 

Not a big mistake on your part but definitely the type you want to cut RIGHT out of your ladylike repertoire. You're trying to teach him to be more go-getting by ensuring that any ego-boosts he receives were a direct result of whatever HE took the trouble to do/do plus say.

 

And, yes - in that non-reply situation, you should DEFINITELY not be doing any follow-up/chasing (so - TICK! to you). Think tennis match... He serves the ball, you return it. You return it with SLIGHTLY LESS power than he sends it over the net with as well as slightly less under- or over- or side-spin. Only if you botch up a return-of-serve whereby it never lands back at his feet are you allowed to collect the ball from your side of the net and re-hit it back to him.. but even in that case you mustn't hit it overarm or with more or equal force to his serve, you simply return it like the interruption to the rally had never happened (although you are allowed to say "So-rreeee!" as you re-return his ball).

 

..on which note: Getting ready to take my exam now is him CONFIDING in you (which is Sharing which is Team-mate-ing (ta-daa!)). You should reply, 'GOOD LUCK!...not that you'll need it.'

 

xoxo

[Amandacast57]

I said "good luck on your exam. I need to start getting ready for the Christmas party"

[Nattersmatter]

TSK! See how you execute the aims of your own commitmentphobia? Translation:

 

"Good luck on your exam but how's about you instead sit there worrying about whether some bloke(s) will try to get off with me- Little Miss Strikingly Pretty - at the Christmas party I'm going to where you won't be there to protect me/our relationship/your heart?"

 

A

MAN

DA!!!?

 

Text back and say something like, 'I don't think I'll stay long, though.. just one drink and then home again, I'm pretty tired tonight and not in a partying mood. PS: Let me know how you did the minute you come out, yeh?'.

 

Doesn't matter if you do stay, what he doesn't know can't hurt him and what couldn't hurt him, anyway, can't hurt him. The point is not to aggravate Mr Over-Skittish, Over-Reactive in the first place. PARTICULARLY not when he's got to have his mind full on this very important exam - one of the very self-improvements you SAY you need him to do so that you and he can have a FUTURE together!

 

See what you're like?

 

If I were you, I would start to count to 10 and THINK about what you intend to say before you actually say what inevitably wants to sneak out of your own little Pandora's box-ful of fears and sabotage the relationship.

 

xoxo

[Amandacast57]

I responded a few hours later while at the party and said "How was your exam???? And then I sent him the photo booth pictures my friend and I took at the party and told him I was having fun but wished he was here. I knew he was playing a soccer game after the exam so he didn't respond right away. He texted me about 9:30 and said "Hey! Where's the party? Exam went well I told him where it was and that I was about to sign karaoke and he could stop by if he wanted. He responded that he didnt know where it was and that "He smelled bad, hahaha". We stopped talking after that and then at 10:30 he sent me a text and said "Have a good time. I'm going to bed".

 

My friend I went to the party with asked me if I wanted to continue our karaoke fun with her and her husband on Friday night. They go to this bar on Fridays and sign. So I asked my ex if he wanted to go. He said "Possibly I feel like I have plans this weekend but I can't remember any of them ahahaha. I think I take my recert on Sat sometime in the morning. Then I ref from 4-7. Then play at 8. Friday I can't remember if I've made any plans but I want to go see the new movie, The Hobbit". Now, I don't like when he does that. I can't tell if he wants to go or not. And I do check up on the things he says. He is reffing and is playing at 8. BUT, just say yes or no, ya know? So I said "Well I told Christy and Eric I would come so you can come if you want. I remember you had a date with your brother on Friday to see the movie so no worries". He said "Yea, he is not reliable to count on. There's a good chance I'll go with on Friday I told him that I know he really wants to see the movie so we could go see it and then meet my friends. Then he told me how he was going to be poor for a little bit because he paying around 900 over the next week with the apartment and then 700 the week after that and that that doesn't even count the money he pays upfront for school for the spring semester. Then I went to bed.

[Amandacast57]

Mwack-mwack-OOOPS! *He* Tarzan, you JANE! And don't anyone give me any of that modern women and -isms cr*p; that lot belong in the office and your family and friendship groups, NOT on the mating ground. On the mating ground during the wooing stage, you ask for nothing, offer nothing, sit there looking good, doing your best to be and look nothing LIKE a man, and ***responding*** according to whether what he does is worth a smile/applause or being marked down, whilst HE is the one who asks and acts in order to get. It's how well you RESPOND that dictates how and how fast the relationship will progress, not how well you grab the steering wheel off him or, god forbid, do the actual driving. He's the driver, you're the (secret/subtle) navigator.

 

This is something I really need to do. I'm a "go-getter". It is hard for me to sit back and let someone do for me. My mom has ALWAYS told me I do too much for them in a relationship. I distinctly remember the weekend I stayed with him when I was sick, I kept thinking "Ok, this is the 5th time he has gotten me something. Maybe I should get up and get it myself". And then I said No, he should do these things for me and I should let him.

 

If he mentions it, take the opportunity to say it was just a fantasy invitation over a fantasy meal in accordance with the overall fantasy of the game itself... "but a nice fantasy nonetheless".

 

Lol, honesty, I probably won't win anyways.

 

And, yes - in that non-reply situation, you should DEFINITELY not be doing any follow-up/chasing (so - TICK! to you). Think tennis match... He serves the ball, you return it. You return it with SLIGHTLY LESS power than he sends it over the net with as well as slightly less under- or over- or side-spin. Only if you botch up a return-of-serve whereby it never lands back at his feet are you allowed to collect the ball from your side of the net and re-hit it back to him.. but even in that case you mustn't hit it overarm or with more or equal force to his serve, you simply return it like the interruption to the rally had never happened (although you are allowed to say "So-rreeee!"

 

It is really hard for me to make judgements sometimes. Like last night, he likes when I sent pictures I find on Pinterest. So I sent 3. One said "Sleep tight, don't let the bed bugs bite", the other said "sweet dreams" and the third was a kitten passed out in the bed. He didn't say anything. I'm sure he was already asleep. But then this morning I haven't heard anything. But it was the same way yesterday. He didn't say anything and then when he got off work, he texted me and told me that he was busying wielding pipes. So he could be doing the same thing today or studying for his Biology final, which by the way, means school is done until mid January after tonight. I thought about sending him a text later in the afternoon and wish him good luck on the exam.

 

I try to look back and his actions and when he did more and when he did less. It seems like now, when I back off some, he is more receptive and loving. I just try to tell myself that he has told me and others that he thinks he made a mistake breaking things off. So I try to let that play a part.

 

And side note, I'm finding it very hard to try to not picture a life with him. I have dreams we get married. Even now, we somewhat discuss living together, marriage, kids, etc. It certainly isn't as hardcore as it was before and it feels good when we talk about it. The other night when I made dinner, he helped clean up. So we were in the kitchen, cleaning up together, and I just thought about how cute it was. I'm driving to work and I see homes for sale and I think about what it would be like the first time we bought a house together. Or I see couples walking their dogs in the evening and I picture him and I, walking the dog that we got together. I can't get those thoughts or pictures out of my head. Haha, even the weekend I stayed at his house when I was sick, we were in bed, laying up against the head board, watching tv with our tea he made us and he looks and me and says "So this is what married life is like?".

 

Oh and when you said that you didn't think Friday was the first time he drove by my house, I don't agree. When we were together, there were a few times that he told me he thought about driving by my house because there were a few nights (shortly after i started my job) that I was SO tired and literally went to bed at 8. He was used to girls lying to him about where they were so it made him feel unsure when i would tell him goodnight at 8. But I find it hard to grasp that something was bothering him SO bad that he had to get up out of bed to check to see where I was. Was it that I didn't ask him to hang out on a Friday night? Was it because it was the first Friday we were both in town (him not at his soccer tournaments) and not spending that night together?

[Nattersmatter]

Ah - you were posting whilst I was typing so now we're out of synch. Let me read what you'd posted...

 

xoo

[Nattersmatter]

Oh, wait - my post didn't take. (Try again...)

 

 

 

Assuming you've already tidied up that text blooper, we still have the big issue regarding his so-called-genuine statement about not wanting 'for a while' to give you and he the title of girlfriend and boyfriend:

 

He's repeatedly insisting - and more clearly/vehemently than before - he's neither interested in other women nor seeing anyone else - which is at least some form of commitment through the fact of placing his own word and thereby his integrity into judgement from here on in. Plus, having invited you to spend the entire weekend would, we hope, not only go some way to suggesting no-one else can be on the scene but also that this entire weekend may be the recommencement of a habit rather than a one-off placator. Therefore, I, to reiterate, don't see what the point of withholding the title could be in any real and meaningful terms.... save for silly stubbornness and pride, i.e. because he doesn't want to be seen to have to drop every single one of his demands at this re-negotiations table due to it automatically exposing the fact he'd never meant any of them in the first place and ends up looking not only silly but 'fingered' when it comes to the REAL reasons, which are [1] da big, strong, heroic man PANICKED and jumped onto the chair, squealing like a girlie (frankly) and, more to the point, FAR more than he admitted, and [2] that when he insists on getting something, it's not really the thing he wants, just the getting of his own way. And this latter attitude fits perfectly and commonplace-ly with this post-betrayal beaut: 'No woman's ever going to tell ME what to do or not do!...ever again!!...cos what's the bleedin' point when the relationship's only going to end up over, anyway (most likely with her cheating on me)!'

 

Also, I imagine to you, especially in view of your comment about being happy enough to basically suck it and see under this new situation - considering he IS newly opening up in confessing his fears, including the whys, and admitting his reactive mental hang-up ("want to but can't (daren't)") and considering the invitation of a whole weekend, as well as the fact he OFFERED it and IMMEDIATELY and in response only to of a simple, matter-of-fact statement, you probably don't feel confident enough to do any more pushing for the time being.

 

If that's true, then, despite I myself would prefer to recommend you strike whilst the iron is hot/his need is keennest -that's fairenoughski, because it's your relationship and your capabilities that have to be worked with here. BUT!... but-but-but!....it's very important that you set a mental deadline - which you do NOT stipulate to him other than to say you "don't like it but are willing to give the altered format a couple of weeks' or so trial run". This enables you a "one-two-three" run-up in terms of garnering yet more confidence, as well as - most importantly - provides too little time in which to come to feel DEPENDENT on him again whereby the thought of being without any form of contact from him (if during that time he *doesn't* re-promote you after gaining his own greater confidence towards you) feels just too difficult and painful to bear.

 

HOWEVER... Whether you do it now or wait a few weeks, you DO have to deal with the face-value fact here because, remember, it's these very two titles which provide the framework for dictating what specific behaviour are acceptable or unacceptable, whether or not his actual reason might be only that he doesn't want to be seen to drop every single one of his demands at this re-negotiations table and look silly.

 

So you had better set a deadline that accommodates every single one of these needs and safeguards including what you'll do in the worst-case scenario. I would say 6 weeks MAXIMUM under this format. However, that takes for granted that you'll see him no more than twice a week. If he starts wanting to see you more often, you have to shorten the deadline accordingly.

 

Finally, should this booking you for prime dating days - or at worst, Saturday nights - be dropped just as quickly as it appeared, that will be it: you state nicely but firmly, that you can just about tolerate lack of title/formal status where standard exclusive boyfriend-girlfriend behaviour is present, but can *NOT* tolerate that lack AS WELL AS *ANY* important bf-gf behaviour being in any way missing altogether or noticeably under par... which means, NO DICE!...and it's 'Call me when you've decided to do this PROPERLY and ONLY when you've decided to do this properly; in the meantime, you and I are not boyfriend and girlfriend what...so...EVER (and neither are we friends because friends don't try to sell each other short''.

 

How does all of that sound?

 

xoxo

[Amandacast57]

Oh and I don't think you said anything about:

 

I can't remember what I specifically said but I said something about him having sex with someone else. He said "you're the only person I'm sleeping with" and I said "yea, for now" and in a more stern voice he said "you're the only person I'm sleeping with".

 

Maybe it wasn't a red flag but it was hard for me to read.

[Nattersmatter]

Mm-hmm? And what did I just tell you about NOT serving?!

 

You're a control-freak, remember? He's a control-freak, too, but, Amanda - HE'S ALLOWED TO BE AT THIS STAGE.

 

*He* asker, you ACCEPTER. STOP treating him like he's Jane to your Tarzan!!! That's undoubtedly why you got THIS:

 

 

 

...and this:

 

 

 

...despite there is a positive in there - specifically, he is starting to account in precise ways for his movements. And that's what BOYFRIENDS do. But the reason you got a WOMANLY ANSWER - "Oooh.... don't know yet... need to check my diary (titter-titter).." - IS BECAUSE YOU'RE FORCING HIM INTO THE FEMALE POSITION WHILST TRIGGERING HIS MALE NEED TO PUNISH YOU FOR GRABBING *HIS* STEERING WHEEL!

 

Do you understand this VERY primitive psychology, now?

 

 

 

Translation: Oops, sorry, wasn't an order, just a loose suggestion.

 

Good - well backpedaled, Amanda... so obviously you DO instinctively understand that psychology.

 

And hence why you then got HIM backpedaling somewhat:

 

 

 

Tick!

 

 

 

Aw, BEEP...and this RE-pedaling forwards again on your part is why you then got this:

 

 

 

Translation: Well, if you're GOING to order me around, tell me what we're doing when that's MY job - don't expect me to reward you by paying for you as well, mleugh!

 

Remember - his ego has been damaged. All men are egotistical like this when it comes to being macho (particularly in the wooing stage), but the ego-shrivelled especially! So he, clearly, is now trying to train YOU... as in - I'll pay when it's my invitation, darlin'!

 

 

 

Which is tantamount to you sulking. Fine. At least he knows you feel suitably told off.

 

I haven't read your next yet but, anyway - I suggest you follow up with something like, 'Well, have a think about it and let me know whenever; I just thought it would be something you'd enjoy This way you'll convert your impression from trying to be the man to just being a particularly proactive and enthusiastic ideas type of person.

 

xoxo

[Nattersmatter]

Oh and I don't think you said anything about:

 

I can't remember what I specifically said but I said something about him having sex with someone else. He said "you're the only person I'm sleeping with" and I said "yea, for now" and in a more stern voice he said "you're the only person I'm sleeping with".

 

Maybe it wasn't a red flag but it was hard for me to read.

 

I did, actually... when I said re-insisting more clearly and vehemently. (Pay attention at the back, there? LOL)

 

xoxo

[Nattersmatter]

I have go on the school run now but I'll be back to respond to your second post later. xoxo

[Nattersmatter]

This is something I really need to do. I'm a "go-getter". It is hard for me to sit back and let someone do for me. My mom has ALWAYS told me I do too much for them in a relationship. I distinctly remember the weekend I stayed with him when I was sick, I kept thinking "Ok, this is the 5th time he has gotten me something. Maybe I should get up and get it myself". And then I said No, he should do these things for me and I should let him.

 

I'm a go-getter, as well, so I know EXACTLY what you mean! But the wooing stage is supposed to be - by dictat of nature - one where the MAN gets to impress...because you're the Selector, not the Performer. But.. you know how if you treat someone like a baby they'll BEHAVE like a baby? - same goes for treating a man like a woman. Plus, once you *do* stop trying to be the mover and shaker, you finally get to really enjoy being treated like a princess. It also helps you to see really deep inside the man you're with.. because, of course, you're not constantly appraising and monitoring your OWN performance, meaning all you have to keep an eye on is your responses, meaning your eyes and mind are totally freed up to see him properly. And the same goes for him: not having to bear the extra task of BATTLING your attempts to keep grabbing the steering-wheel, his mind and eyes are equally more free.

 

But... Why didn't you listen to your mum? Didn't she explain it in a way you could fully appreciate it or in not enough detail?

 

*Don't* keep sending these pictures. I know you aren't especially doing it to get something back and you know you aren't doing it to get something back but HE DOESN'T. He's judging you against Everywoman...and as you rightly pointed out MANY a time in whatever ways - too many women (- people, in fact) these days only give in order to receive (specifically, to make the man call her). I mean - obviously one DOES give to receive, but this is about DEGREES - in this case giving to get back immediately versus giving to get back Whenever, possibly months down the line (and especially giving in order that THE RELATIONSHIP, THE TEAM receives).

 

Saying that, you can't now just suddenly stop sending the pictures DEAD, or the sudden contast will represent an alert and worry him. You're going to have to make a point of pointing out that you don't need any response as you veeery slowly but surely lessen that habit, e.g. in the email subject bar, type, 'Have a free giggle on me (night-night)!'.

 

I try to look back and his actions and when he did more and when he did less. It seems like now, when I back off some, he is more receptive and loving. I just try to tell myself that he has told me and others that he thinks he made a mistake breaking things off. So I try to let that play a part.

 

Well done for noticing! + YEP! + YEP!

 

And side note, I'm finding it very hard to try to not picture a life with him. I have dreams we get married. Even now, we somewhat discuss living together, marriage, kids, etc. It certainly isn't as hardcore as it was before and it feels good when we talk about it. The other night when I made dinner, he helped clean up. So we were in the kitchen, cleaning up together, and I just thought about how cute it was. I'm driving to work and I see homes for sale and I think about what it would be like the first time we bought a house together. Or I see couples walking their dogs in the evening and I picture him and I, walking the dog that we got together. I can't get those thoughts or pictures out of my head. Haha, even the weekend I stayed at his house when I was sick, we were in bed, laying up against the head board, watching tv with our tea he made us and he looks and me and says "So this is what married life is like?".

 

Well, that is (or could be) an highly encouraging comment from his side but... this is a TEST-DRIVE. For all YOU know, this guy has been sent from 'on high' to limber you up for the next, even BETTER one... to basically knock the commitmentphobia out of you in preparation and in the nick of time...and possibly vicky-vercky. So try not to think and behave now like him being the particular one is some sort of guaranteed given.

 

I didn't know you had a dog together (LOL - did you demand an epidural?). Who's idea was it? Who paid for it? Who's house did/does it live at? Cos that is one al-mighty big bridge, there!

 

Oh and when you said that you didn't think Friday was the first time he drove by my house, I don't agree. When we were together, there were a few times that he told me he thought about driving by my house because there were a few nights (shortly after i started my job) that I was SO tired and literally went to bed at 8. He was used to girls lying to him about where they were so it made him feel unsure when i would tell him goodnight at 8. But I find it hard to grasp that something was bothering him SO bad that he had to get up out of bed to check to see where I was. Was it that I didn't ask him to hang out on a Friday night? Was it because it was the first Friday we were both in town (him not at his soccer tournaments) and not spending that night together?

 

I don't agree with you not agreeing. I'm bigger and uglier than you (and an ex-slapper) - I've had more Commitmentphobes than you've had hot dinners AND studied up on them (in all their underlying forms), so I win, HAH-hah! (LOL). No, his "I thought about" was to test the water to see how you might react if ever you managed to spot him.

 

And WHY do you find it hard to believe he'd have that much motivation? One, you're a whole-package catch, and, two, he has protecting himself to think of (has his eyes peeled for yet more incoming, life- and heart-devastating bombs). Those together make a pretty huge motivator, right?

 

You need to start thinking about what things look and feel like from *his* side a bit more.

 

xoxo

[Amandacast57]

I totally get this. This is a flaw of mine. My father was absent in my life and I become the caregiver.

 

 

 

I try my best to, BUT I find myself trying to do, do, do because "maybe they will see how great I am".

 

 

 

Haha, funny you say that, because before you responded, I had not talked to him all morning. And maybe a few weeks ago i would have been the one to send the text but I didn't. And then I received a text from him, venting about how he must be super stressed out because someone at work kept calling him an inappropriate name and he reported that person to a supervisor. So I said "Try not to let it bother you. You have an exam tonight and you need to have a clear head". And then I sent him some funny pictures that I got from Pinterest to lighten the mood. He responded "Those are so funny. I really like the one with the squirrel (It was a picture of a squirrel who had climbed into a bird feeder and was stuck. The caption read "I think I made a mistake"). And OF COURSE, the over analyzing side of me thought "Hmmmm, I don't think that was the funniest one. What if that was an indirect way of saying he thinks he has made a mistake too". I know, I know....silly.

 

 

 

I can do that.

 

 

 

Oh, haha, we don't have a dog together. I'm saying when I see other couple's walking their dogs, I think about him and I doing that with a dog that we WOULD get as a couple.

 

 

 

Lol, I guess I just didn't see him as someone who would do that on a regular basis. Plus I'm a light sleeper and I'm sure I would have heard him AND, he admitted it to me without any coercing.

 

 

 

I guess the mindset of anyone who is broken up with is that these "things" work on anyone else but your ex. For example, I think "He broke up with me. Why would he care or be bothered enough to sit at home and first of all, have me so heavily on his mind, and then to worry about where I am or who I am with to actually get up at 1am and drive the 15-20 minutes to my house? But yes, I see what you are saying. And even though he keeps searching, he isn't finding any red flags. I guess which is why he joked "You are making a really good case for yourself".

 

 

 

I feel like I've started doing that and maybe that is why it feels like the tables are turning.

[Nattersmatter]

I totally get this. This is a flaw of mine. [My father was absent in my life and I become the caregiver....] I try my best to, BUT I find myself trying to do, do, do because "maybe they will see how great I am".

 

First off, plenty of fathers (or mothers) become absent or absent themselves from a family for whatever reason(s); that *doesn't* mean you, the child, should have to become the caregiver. That was a mistake.

 

I get that in one environment - your 'original pack' wherein you were taught what goes, what doesn't - you had to operate in a certain way by certain rules and so systematically that it became a habit as well as kidded you into believing it was your greatest, possibly sole strength/talent, but YOU ARE NOT IN THAT ENVIRONMENT ANY MORE. The successful human is flexible thus adapts well to changes in its environment, be that because the individual undergoes a change to his/her environment or chooses to move from one to another,... and that's what you should be doing - adapting. And this, in fact, is a pretty standard fact of growing up for everyone - no matter any individual's past conditioned-in pack status and habituation - which A LOT of people have difficulty doing. But do it you must, or else choose a partner who wants 100% to be 'babied' rather than what you have - a man in two opposing minds on that score (as well as a few others) - hence wanting what he's been used to and rebelling against it both, either simultaneously or vacillatingly. Better yet, discharge that operational and self-identificatory habit of yours through an area of your life that's completely separate from your love-life: charity or vocational career for those in need, for instance. (Or just save it for when he asks for it or is ill and meantime get a pet.)

 

The second-to-latter option takes time to put in place, however, so in the meantime you're just going to have use that incredible stubbornness of yours in a more sensible direction, namely sitting on your do-do-doing hands until being the nurtured one becomes the replacement habit (which it will, and surprisingly quickly... because there are rewards to compensate).

 

You're definitely not alone, though. As I say, thanks to being reprimed by the work arena, MOST women these days behave like men in their love-lives without even realising it (and then wonder why they put so many men off despite the attachment and chemistry was there).

 

You imagine YOU were the one who couldn't seem to find a manly-enough man these days?.. that every man expected to be treated like he was the woman: paid for on dates, gifted with flowers, etc., expected to be the one RECEIVING all the time....even picked up and twirled round ffs! LOL It's a fact of how a lot of men feel these days - *redundant*... and some men particularly in tune with themselves have been honest enough to articulate it to me. One male friend put it particularly well...said to me, 'You [meaning women] hand the control over to the man and your relationship is going to CRASH!'. He wasn't talking about controlling on the surface like you let them do, with you the secret and unrecognised controller as per how nature designed it. He was talking about where the woman is 'being the man' to such a degree that the man reacts by trying to take back control and in the process takes TOO MUCH and thereby gets the woman's portion as well. He'll be happy doing only his job if you're doing yours.

 

Once the wooing period is OVER, however, you can let more of that caretaking bent loose. Never TOO much, though, or you'll undo all the good pursuit-phase work and newly introduce training him into a lazy-a*se.

 

Think of relationships as a see-saw. You can't both be up or both be down simultaneously or the see-saw breaks in two. For the ride to be enjoyable and fair and always BALANCED, you have to take it in turns. So when he's down, you're up, and when you're down, he's up... and in comes that aforementioned FLEXIBILITY which takes being suitably 'plugged in' to your environment and its incoming cues or signals from him (in the form of hints/comments/whinges both vocally or behaviourally). That's what is meant by an equal relationship... because it's not strictly possible for men and women to be equal in the normal sense of the word; they're not competitors with the exact same range of strengths and skills, vying for who gets to exert either, they are Ying and Yang which TOGETHER make one superskilled 'person' (unit)... Think Jack Spratt and his wife who between them both licked the platter clean. So forget Equal and aim for Equitous.

 

Haha, funny you say that, because before you responded, I had not talked to him all morning. And maybe a few weeks ago i would have been the one to send the text but I didn't.

 

Good.

 

And then I received a text from him, venting about how he must be super stressed out because someone at work kept calling him an inappropriate name and he reported that person to a supervisor.

 

Well, in actual fact he's got that a*se-about-face because it's WHEN you're stressed that you try to take on and deal with everything yourself. The fact he's handing it to someone else (which is quite correct according to work/heirarchal protocol, actually), shows that what HE means is, Over-busy. (But that's men for ya where anything emotional's concerned: calling an apple an orange and vice versa. LOL)

 

But, anyway, the fact he said it without then tagging on some request to get out of some obligation or other because of it, is good news: he's sharing again. (Tick!)

 

So I said "Try not to let it bother you. You have an exam tonight and you need to have a clear head".

 

That still comes under Emotional Caretaking, but I'll let you off because it's fairly mild.

 

And then I sent him some funny pictures that I got from Pinterest to lighten the mood. He responded "Those are so funny. I really like the one with the squirrel (It was a picture of a squirrel who had climbed into a bird feeder and was stuck. The caption read "I think I made a mistake"). And OF COURSE, the over analyzing side of me thought "Hmmmm, I don't think that was the funniest one. What if that was an indirect way of saying he thinks he has made a mistake too". I know, I know....silly.

 

Well, if you're silly, then, I'm SILLIER because that's precisely what he subconsciously was admitting he can identify with and relate to.

 

I can do that.

 

Good. And if you start with that briefly qualifying why you're sending them (just for the sheer F.O.C. gift of it), you may not even have to lessen them as you go... See how it goes/what effect it has.

 

Oh, haha, we don't have a dog together. I'm saying when I see other couple's walking their dogs, I think about him and I doing that with a dog that we WOULD get as a couple.

 

OH! Okay - my mistake.

 

Lol, I guess I just didn't see him as someone who would do that on a regular basis. Plus I'm a light sleeper and I'm sure I would have heard him AND, he admitted it to me without any coercing.

 

There IS such a thing as parking your car out of hearing range and walking the rest of the way, you know. There is also you not being as light as sleeper as you THINK. In fact, your depth of rousability changes with the changing sleep phases (despite your rate of stage-changes might be quite rapid), so all he need do is happen to drive by when you're 'dead to the world'. Anyway, additionally - you KNOW what he does when he really can't be arsed to drive-by, don't you: "Bringgg-bringgg.....[silence/click/number withheld]".

 

I found out my then-ex-hub-2b, during our 6mth separation, had not only done about 20 drive-bys himself but had also got one of his technical managers for whom the marital home was en route to the office, to do it for him (oh - and his mother!). *He* tried the, 'I saw a Green car in your driveway' tactic as well (after I'd already decided to divorce him). It was in fact Blue. He EXPECTED it to be Green because he had a good idea of whom I was seeing. But the chap was having to use a hire car that night. I just said, 'What car, *I* didn't see any car?!'.. which was true... because I hadn't bothered looking out of the window to take a look at it at any point in the evening, LOL.

 

I also had BOTH those tactics tried on me numerous times with other exes [rolls eyes]. One guy even went through the whole colour spectrum as he read my reactions, LOL..."Er, not Silver, I meant White...no, not White- what am I talking about?! - I meant Black" (LOL, I kid you not!!).

 

I guess the mindset of anyone who is broken up with is that these "things" work on anyone else but your ex. For example, I think "He broke up with me. Why would he care or be bothered enough to sit at home and first of all, have me so heavily on his mind, and then to worry about where I am or who I am with to actually get up at 1am and drive the 15-20 minutes to my house? But yes, I see what you are saying. And even though he keeps searching, he isn't finding any red flags. I guess which is why he joked "You are making a really good case for yourself".

 

Is IN PART why he joked. Yes.

 

Sorry, but this guy needs *far-far-far-far-FAR* more reassurances, both provided, requested, 'winkled' out of you, and self-sought, than your average. The term is High Maintenance. But this is the bed you've insisted on choosing, so this is what you have to LIE on. So you're going to have to be MUCH more thoughtful and considerate of his wounds, and make the effort accordingly... For a while, anyway... just until he re-gains his confidence.

 

I imagine it helped greatly that you suddenly became even less trusting than HIM. He suddenly didn't feel like the only scaredy-pants in that there village and remembered that you have just as much to lose as he does. I used to play that trick on Simon. Worked a treat. Got him not only feeling less shameful but also got his mind off of himself and onto me via triggering his protective instincts. I found it very hard to keep up, though (he had ceased being worth all that effort).

 

I feel like I've started doing that and maybe that is why it feels like the tables are turning.

 

Yup. And you've done it extremely rapidly, as well (kudos!).

 

I think if you endeavour to keep your mind on your own behaviour from now on, on the understanding that he's still HIGHLY reactive - especially to you - especially when he'll still feel like he wasn't vigilant enough to spot the danger brewing last time (with his ex) which has since left him *too* vigilant and reading *too* much into every little thing you say and do, you'll continue to see things improve. Warning, however: that is not the same as saying cease monitoring *his* behaviour (you don't just want to switch making the same mistakes on the opposite end of the extreme). It means you have to work harder on BOTH of your radars - your incoming stimulus radar and outgoing one. And simultaneously.

 

Relationships are hard, hard work.

Relationships with the recently-wounded/still DefCon-ed, are initially SUPER hard work.

 

But you're mentally hard-working, anyway, and enjoy working hard...so... that suits you down to the ground and is the precise reason why you didn't want to give up on him, ditch him for an easier model, unless you really, really had to, in the first place. ;-)

 

We're human beans. We're lazy. Instead of altering our shape, we prefer to crawl only through those holes that best fit our current shape. Innit. .....But!... The most successful humans are those that do *both*.

 

xoxo

[Amandacast57]

First off, plenty of fathers (or mothers) become absent or absent themselves from a family for whatever reason(s); that *doesn't* mean you, the child, should have to become the caregiver. That was a mistake.

 

I understand that. I think (maybe) my case was a bit different. My parents were not fond of each other AT ALL and I was the child who was brought in the middle of it. I wasn't shielded of any drama including financial troubles, family troubles, fights between parents and my dad made it a point to try to get my sister and I to go against my mom. On my 16th birthday, I received a birthday card from my dad's mom with a note in it telling me how she was so disappointed in me and prayed for me to be a better person. My step mom got involved and I saw all the conversations between her and my mom saying how I was a bad child and shouldn't have been a recipient of any of the things I had. It made me grow up quicker than I liked. My mom was struggling with money so I worked a lot to help out so essentially, I acted like a parents when I was 14 years old.

 

I get that in one environment - your 'original pack' wherein you were taught what goes, what doesn't - you had to operate in a certain way by certain rules and so systematically that it became a habit as well as kidded you into believing it was your greatest, possibly sole strength/talent, but YOU ARE NOT IN THAT ENVIRONMENT ANY MORE. The successful human is flexible thus adapts well to changes in its environment, be that because the individual undergoes a change to his/her environment or chooses to move from one to another,... and that's what you should be doing - adapting. And this, in fact, is a pretty standard fact of growing up for everyone - no matter any individual's past conditioned-in pack status and habituation - which A LOT of people have difficulty doing. But do it you must, or else choose a partner who wants 100% to be 'babied' rather than what you have - a man in two opposing minds on that score (as well as a few others) - hence wanting what he's been used to and rebelling against it both, either simultaneously or vacillatingly. Better yet, discharge that operational and self-identificatory habit of yours through an area of your life that's completely separate from your love-life: charity or vocational career for those in need, for instance. (Or just save it for when he asks for it or is ill and meantime get a pet.)

 

I've gotten a lot better about things I struggled with in the past. My previous relationship before this consisted of me pushing and pushing and pushing the guy I was with to have motivation to do something with his life (when in reality he was just a big coke head that didn't care about doing anything significant). When he wouldn't step up and do anything, I did. I literally sent out around 200 resumes for him. He landed an internship because of me. But I learned that I can't do for them. I'm not his mom and I was acting like it. And now, with my current ex, I'd love to put together an awesome resume and search for all kinds of jobs and apply for him. But who would that help? Certainly not him. And it is not my job to do that for him. If he wants to better himself, he has to do it. Trust me, so many times I've been bored at work and wanted to look up all these jobs. I didn't. I only found ONE job that I happened to come accross that I passed over to him.

 

The second-to-latter option takes time to put in place, however, so in the meantime you're just going to have use that incredible stubbornness of yours in a more sensible direction, namely sitting on your do-do-doing hands until being the nurtured one becomes the replacement habit (which it will, and surprisingly quickly... because there are rewards to compensate).

 

Yes, doing nothing is pretty hard.

 

You're definitely not alone, though. As I say, thanks to being reprimed by the work arena, MOST women these days behave like men in their love-lives without even realising it (and then wonder why they put so many men off despite the attachment and chemistry was there).

 

I've considered this, especially in regards to my last 2 relationships. I always felt like my previous ex was intimidated by me. I was doing internships and then only 5 months out of college and got a salary position. He was a college graduate with no drive or ambition. He was unhappy as a manager of a bar/restaurant but didn't want to change it. He dates this girl now that isn't even in college. I believe she made it through one year. But she doesn't intimidate him.

 

As for my current ex, I'm sure it bothers him that I am in my career and he doesn't even know what path he is going to take. But would he be interested in me if I was a stripper or a receptionist? It is like a lose lose.

 

Well, in actual fact he's got that a*se-about-face because it's WHEN you're stressed that you try to take on and deal with everything yourself. The fact he's handing it to someone else (which is quite correct according to work/heirarchal protocol, actually), shows that what HE means is, Over-busy. (But that's men for ya where anything emotional's concerned: calling an apple an orange and vice versa. LOL)

 

But, anyway, the fact he said it without then tagging on some request to get out of some obligation or other because of it, is good news: he's sharing again. (Tick!)

 

I don't understand what you mean by the first part. He is sharing. Which he did yesterday too and I'll get to that. Part of me feels good because he trusts me enough to talk about his feelings. I'm PRETTY sure he doesn't confide in anyone else the way he does me. BUT, I'm also not really confiding in him. Lately, when we lay in bed, he always asks me what I'm thinking. I don't know why.

 

That still comes under Emotional Caretaking, but I'll let you off because it's fairly mild.

 

Yea, I was just trying to be nice. I didn't really know what else to say in response to his venting session.

 

Well, if you're silly, then, I'm SILLIER because that's precisely what he subconsciously was admitting he can identify with and relate to.

 

So I'm not silly for thinking that? But why would it be that he is identifying that he made a mistake in regards to ME?

 

There IS such a thing as parking your car out of hearing range and walking the rest of the way, you know. There is also you not being as light as sleeper as you THINK. In fact, your depth of rousability changes with the changing sleep phases (despite your rate of stage-changes might be quite rapid), so all he need do is happen to drive by when you're 'dead to the world'. Anyway, additionally - you KNOW what he does when he really can't be arsed to drive-by, don't you: "Bringgg-bringgg.....[silence/click/number withheld]".

 

The parking his car out of hearing range is too much trouble? I mean, really? Why would he even take the time to do that? And yes, I do agree that he could have driven by during a time that I was OUT. Like last night for example. He had a soccer game at 10:15. The game lasts an hour and since it is semi-close to my house, I wanted to try to stay up just in case he drove by (BECAUSE WE HAD NOT SPOKEN SINCE 1PM YESTERDAY). BUT, I passed out, even with the TV on, which means I was OUT.

 

The weird thing about the blocked number is, I went back through my phone and saw that when him and I were dating, I had received some blocked calls. The even weirder thing is, the voicemail they left was the EXACT SAME ONE. The rummaging around, etc. And when I say the exact same, it was the same message left, each time the call was made. So that makes me think it wasn't him.

 

I found out my then-ex-hub-2b, during our 6mth separation, had not only done about 20 drive-bys himself but had also got one of his technical managers for whom the marital home was en route to the office, to do it for him (oh - and his mother!). *He* tried the, 'I saw a Green car in your driveway' tactic as well (after I'd already decided to divorce him). It was in fact Blue. He EXPECTED it to be Green because he had a good idea of whom I was seeing. But the chap was having to use a hire car that night. I just said, 'What car, *I* didn't see any car?!'.. which was true... because I hadn't bothered looking out of the window to take a look at it at any point in the evening, LOL.

 

Yea, well, there wasn't anyone at my house. So it was pretty annoying that he tried to make it out like it was. The ONLY possibility of a red car is my lady neighbor. But how can he NOT tell that there is a HUGE flower bed separating the two driveways? Or was he just trying to get me to admit to something?

 

I also had BOTH those tactics tried on me numerous times with other exes [rolls eyes]. One guy even went through the whole colour spectrum as he read my reactions, LOL..."Er, not Silver, I meant White...no, not White- what am I talking about?! - I meant Black" (LOL, I kid you not!!).

 

WOW....just.....wow!

 

 

Is IN PART why he joked. Yes.

 

????

 

Sorry, but this guy needs *far-far-far-far-FAR* more reassurances, both provided, requested, 'winkled' out of you, and self-sought, than your average. The term is High Maintenance. But this is the bed you've insisted on choosing, so this is what you have to LIE on. So you're going to have to be MUCH more thoughtful and considerate of his wounds, and make the effort accordingly... For a while, anyway... just until he re-gains his confidence.

 

I haven't chose this bed 100%. I haven't put all my eggs in his basket. Although I have chosen to honor his "remain loyal and into each other", I'm not ruling out any option. I could be out with my friends and some awesome guy could stop at nothing to take me out. Am I supposed to turn him down on the slight chance that my ex is going to appreciate what he has? Absolutely not. My happiness comes first. I'm willing to do this for a little bit, but certainly not waste the rest of my life waiting. And going back to our conversation about eventually getting tired of this...I know I will if something doesn't change. I already see my attitude shifting a little bit. Some days I JUST DON'T CARE. I don't stare at my phone waiting for him to call and other days I feel anger towards him.

 

I imagine it helped greatly that you suddenly became even less trusting than HIM. He suddenly didn't feel like the only scaredy-pants in that there village and remembered that you have just as much to lose as he does. I used to play that trick on Simon. Worked a treat. Got him not only feeling less shameful but also got his mind off of himself and onto me via triggering his protective instincts. I found it very hard to keep up, though (he had ceased being worth all that effort).

 

How did it help that I became less trusting than him? When I say things to him like "Yea, you may be only sleeping with just me for now", I don't say it as fishing for a compliment. I say it as a "I know that you don't HAVE to remain faithful to me so don't think I'm sitting here hanging on your every word and thinking you are so in love with me".

 

And how do I come accross as and continue the "I'm more scared than you"?

 

I think if you endeavour to keep your mind on your own behaviour from now on, on the understanding that he's still HIGHLY reactive - especially to you - especially when he'll still feel like he wasn't vigilant enough to spot the danger brewing last time (with his ex) which has since left him *too* vigilant and reading *too* much into every little thing you say and do, you'll continue to see things improve. Warning, however: that is not the same as saying cease monitoring *his* behaviour (you don't just want to switch making the same mistakes on the opposite end of the extreme). It means you have to work harder on BOTH of your radars - your incoming stimulus radar and outgoing one. And simultaneously.

 

I don't think he didn't spot the danger brewing. I think it was more of him thinking it was just problems they were having and they would work through it instead of her going and sleeping with someone. And apparently she didn't even tell him she cheated, her mom did. But he told me that they were working opposite hours. She cuddled with her body pillow and the sex pretty much stopped.

 

It is not hard for me to monitor my own behavior. I don't go out. I'm not interested in going clubbing or getting wasted. I'm pretty fulfilled staying home on a Friday or Saturday night and having a glass of wine and watching a movie. If I hang out with my girlfriends, we do things like go sing karaoke, go to dinner, go to the gym, go to a play or a sporting event. I'm a nice person. I don't say mean things and I don't call people names. I don't lie. So whatever "past" behavior he is looking for in me, he won't find. I can guarantee that. If I ever agree to marry someone, I would NEVER cheat...EVER.

 

But you're mentally hard-working, anyway, and enjoy working hard...so... that suits you down to the ground and is the precise reason why you didn't want to give up on him, ditch him for an easier model, unless you really, really had to, in the first place. ;-)

 

I'm just one of those people that understand how it feels to be affected by your past. I've had a lot of BS happen to me in my life. It would take me DAYS to talk about how many people (softball coaches, bosses, my dad, boyfriends, friends) betrayed me. I don't act perfectly. There have been times I've acted a little "crazy" or insecure or jealous. I wouldn't want anyone to write me off for something like that so I don't think it would be fair for me to do that to him. I don't know the extent of the pain he felt when he found out his fiance cheated. I'm sure it is more than he would like to admit. Should I expect him to just jump back into a relationship that could very well lead to something long term with no skepticism or fear? Probably not.

 

But today, I'm not feeling very confident about this. Yesterday morning, I said hello. He had been doing a lot of the contacting so going back to your comment of monitoring my behavior, I wanted to make some of the effort as well. I mean, he had contacted me after his soccer game on Tuesday and he contacted me when he exam was over Wednesday night. So we got to talking and how asked me how my morning was. I answered and said "how about you?". He said the usual, that he was being mistreated by his boss. I asked him if he could say anything and he said no, that he would be seen as a troublemaker and they would fire him. So then the conversation went like this:

 

Me: I don't think it is fair that that is the type of work environment you are in. It doesn't matter your job title or how irreplaceable you are or not. You are still a person with feelings and you've worked hard for them for 2 years now. It shouldn't be that you speak to someone about your concerns and they say oh no, you're fired. That is not right

 

Him: 33 months

 

Me: Yes and that is long enough to have gained respect. They shouldn't treat you like that"

 

Him: Oh well

 

Me: I know you said something about how it is a foot in the door but have you thought about considering other options? I know your company is pretty larger but if you can't ask for a raise, benefits, paid holidays, etc. then you aren't being allowed to succeed in your career. What about that position with that other company that is open"

 

Him: I'll apply to that tonight. I swear, I promise Don't play until 10:15 so I'll have plenty of time.

 

Me: Well do it for you, because you want to. You deserve more than what your work is giving you.

 

Him: I'll be excited if other options become real opportunities. Maybe have a bargaining chip with my work. Who knows. I think as of today through next year, they would simply say bye and not care. But when Bob retires next year and a few other people become available for retirement in a year or two, I'd like to think I'd be a real consideration. How was lunch btw? We had our Xmas pot luck. So much food! So many different cultures. Real yummy. My tummy is really twisted, lol"

 

Me: I haven't eaten yet. Bu yes, always good to have options. I always wanted to work for this one company, but after interning there, I did care much for it. I never expected to be where I am not, but it is a much better fit for me. I just want you to be happy in a career setting and feel valued and that people appreciate the work that you do".

 

And you know what he said.....NOTHING. I haven't heard anything from him since that conversation at 1pm yesterday. So I'm kind of annoyed by it. And I won't lie, he lives pretty close to my work so I did my own little drive by on my way home. He was there.

 

But that is not going to fly with me. I don't expect him to text me 24/7, but he wouldn't like it if I was being nice, caring, supportive and helpful when he vents and then he just ignores it. So I won't say anything but maybe my silence will make a point. We are "supposed" to hang out tonight but I don't think it is my responsibility to say anything to him, ESPECIALLY since he didn't respond to me yesterday.

[Nattersmatter]

Upbringing and struggle to 'do' less, noted.

 

Yes, doing nothing is pretty hard.

 

Once those rewards start flooding in, it won't be hard at all.

 

As for my current ex, I'm sure it bothers him that I am in my career and he doesn't even know what path he is going to take. But would he be interested in me if I was a stripper or a receptionist? It is like a lose lose.

 

Oh, sure it does. But only if you're bringing your office conduct home with you. Would he be interested in you if you were a stripper or receptionst? Who knows? Maybe he wouldn't care BECAUSE it didn't encroach into the 'home'? Or maybe the half of him that aspires towards what you've got would have objected whilst the side of him that feels this symptom of your grade presents an unflattering contrast whenever he's feeling hard-done-by would prefer it. But with this conflict of his in mind, hence his "conjoined twins" who are opposites, it's more a *win-lose both* situation (you lose with one and win with the other).

 

He'll come back down to DefCon5 and back to being himself soon enough. And that's when you'll increasingly discover which Him is the real one.

 

I don't understand what you mean by the first part. He is sharing. Which he did yesterday too and I'll get to that. Part of me feels good because he trusts me enough to talk about his feelings.I'm PRETTY sure he doesn't confide in anyone else the way he does me.

 

Exactly.

 

BUT, I'm also not really confiding in him. Lately, when we lay in bed, he always asks me what I'm thinking. I don't know why.

 

LOL - *Because* you're not confiding in him as much as before. But that's fine - LET him have to ask. (Remember - offer nothing unless ASKED and with the proper effort.) Women are *supposed* to be a bit mysterious and intruiging, anyway - it's part of the challenge.

 

So I'm not silly for thinking that? But why would it be that he is identifying that he made a mistake in regards to ME?

 

Have a guess, go on. This mummy ain't doing for you, LOL. Not at this stage, anyway.

 

The parking his car out of hearing range is too much trouble? I mean, really? Why would he even take the time to do that?

 

Paranoia. There is no other motivator quite like fear.

 

And yes, I do agree that he could have driven by during a time that I was OUT. Like last night for example. He had a soccer game at 10:15. The game lasts an hour and since it is semi-close to my house, I wanted to try to stay up just in case he drove by (BECAUSE WE HAD NOT SPOKEN SINCE 1PM YESTERDAY). BUT, I passed out, even with the TV on, which means I was OUT.

 

Are you saying you deliberately leave the telly on when you go out and that he knows this?

 

The weird thing about the blocked number is, I went back through my phone and saw that when him and I were dating, I had received some blocked calls.

 

I wish I could at least *feign* surprise, LOL.

 

The even weirder thing is, the voicemail they left was the EXACT SAME ONE.

 

Coo...!! (LOL)

 

The rummaging around, etc. And when I say the exact same, it was the same message left, each time the call was made. So that makes me think it wasn't him.

 

Maybe it wasn't. Maybe it was. Put it this way: Once at Simon's I discovered spare, compatible mobile phones. And I know for certain my wasband had more than one phone. And one thing we know for 100% certain about your ex-not-ex: you caught him in the act of a drive-by. Driveby = effort of 10 out of a maximum of 10. So how taxing is a mere 3/10 call from whichever location or phone?

 

What about the time they happened. Any pattern? One that matches what you know or can work out were his patterns? Like time of call? (PS: You *know* why the rummaging-around noises - because it pre-provides the excuse of 'oops - the things in my sportsbag must have pushed the redial button as I was looking for X'. *I* got 'rummaging' noises as well.)

 

Yea, well, there wasn't anyone at my house. So it was pretty annoying that he tried to make it out like it was.

 

He could do it or his ex could do it... ergo (his assumption) so could you.

 

The ONLY possibility of a red car is my lady neighbor. But how can he NOT tell that there is a HUGE flower bed separating the two driveways? Or was he just trying to get me to admit to something?

 

Admit to something. You could have told this mystery lover-boy to park where he APPEARED he were someone visiting your neighbour, deliberately to avoid ex-not-ex from sussing what you were up to whenever he wasn't around in case he happened to drive past, right?

 

????

 

He didn't mean you were making a good case for yourself *only* due to having been behaving where not cheating/two-timing is concerned. He means overall.

 

I haven't chose this bed 100%. I haven't put all my eggs in his basket. Although I have chosen to honor his "remain loyal and into each other", I'm not ruling out any option. I could be out with my friends and some awesome guy could stop at nothing to take me out. Am I supposed to turn him down on the slight chance that my ex is going to appreciate what he has? Absolutely not. My happiness comes first. I'm willing to do this for a little bit, but certainly not waste the rest of my life waiting. And going back to our conversation about eventually getting tired of this...I know I will if something doesn't change. I already see my attitude shifting a little bit. Some days I JUST DON'T CARE. I don't stare at my phone waiting for him to call and other days I feel anger towards him.

 

Good! That's the attitude you should have started out with and not dropped prematurely (bar the anger). This is what I'm always trying to explain to women who deliberately TELL the man they're still multi-dating, whether outright or with OTT hints. You're not supposed to shove it in their face like that. You're supposed to let your super-confident vibe and demeanour ("I'm gorgeous!") suggest you're in demand FOR you. That way they don't have enough evidence to justify giving IN to their fears yet have suspicion enough to have their desire stoked enough to compete with all these other men THROUGH YOU - by busting an EXTRA gut to all-round impress you and thereby automatically/indirectly sweep the competition or all potential competition aside. There's one of the differences that makes *all* the difference.

 

Anyway - good!... If your happiness comes first then, as I say, unless you find housework thrilling, *DON'T DO HIS*. Only a *wife* does that. (And then only her half-share if she's a career-person, too.) Or a woman who's returning the favour from him having cleaned her place.

 

That one is definitely perk without having earned it.

 

I'm sure you've got better, more self-pleasing things to do than someone else's housework, right?

 

How did it help that I became less trusting than him? When I say things to him like "Yea, you may be only sleeping with just me for now", I don't say it as fishing for a compliment. I say it as a "I know that you don't HAVE to remain faithful to me so don't think I'm sitting here hanging on your every word and thinking you are so in love with me".

 

Because it means you have to be persuaded - worked on - until you'll trust him. *Challenge*...a harder nut to crack and thereby through the hard work it takes to 'buy you', your value goes up in his eyes correspondingly. Plus, if you're not trusting him to the extent you would were he already your husband, there is less pressure on him to have to BEHAVE like a full-blown husband (which is not only too much for this still-early stage but turns challenge risen to by choice into a DUTY).

 

And how do I come accross as and continue the "I'm more scared than you"?

 

If ever he makes 'Yikes, I'm scared/worried' noises. The crucial fact is that despite you counter with, 'Me, too, oh my GOD, yes!' you immediately follow up with, '..But worth it anyway [smile]', to communicate, 'I'm feeling the fear but doing it anyway'. He can't compete with you unless he matches or surpasses you. Furthermore, if you're aware of how much it could hurt if it went belly-up, you're more likely to appreciate how that likewise applies equally to *him* and will be more CAREFUL with his heart and ego.

 

Road-users who are over-nervous, crash. Road-users who are over-confident, crash. *Balance*

 

I don't think he didn't spot the danger brewing. I think it was more of him thinking it was just problems they were having and they would work through it instead of her going and sleeping with someone.

 

Er..... You've just illustrated my point. Unless she actually said something to him, like, 'Well, okay, honey - I'm just out to screw my lover now. Don't wait up. Mwa!' ???

 

He didn't see or correctly interpret all the signs that the danger was not just brewing but already starting to boil over.

 

And apparently she didn't even tell him she cheated, her mom did.

 

That's worse, if he didn't even work it out before someone who was 'further away' did.

 

But he told me that they were working opposite hours. She cuddled with her body pillow and the sex pretty much stopped.

 

BODY pillow??? Did she eventually draw her lover's face on it as well?! LOL

 

It is not hard for me to monitor my own behavior. I don't go out. I'm not interested in going clubbing or getting wasted. I'm pretty fulfilled staying home on a Friday or Saturday night and having a glass of wine and watching a movie. If I hang out with my girlfriends, we do things like go sing karaoke, go to dinner, go to the gym, go to a play or a sporting event. I'm a nice person. I don't say mean things and I don't call people names. I don't lie. So whatever "past" behavior he is looking for in me, he won't find. I can guarantee that. If I ever agree to marry someone, I would NEVER cheat...EVER.

 

Well, I'm sure once he's relaxed and his love goggles de-misted of fear, he'll be able to concentrate on all the supporting clues in your overall character until he comes to see that that's true.

 

I'm just one of those people that understand how it feels to be affected by your past. I've had a lot of BS happen to me in my life. It would take me DAYS to talk about how many people (softball coaches, bosses, my dad, boyfriends, friends) betrayed me. I don't act perfectly. There have been times I've acted a little "crazy" or insecure or jealous. I wouldn't want anyone to write me off for something like that so I don't think it would be fair for me to do that to him. I don't know the extent of the pain he felt when he found out his fiance cheated.

 

Try, 'I wish I could kill myself!!!', meant genuinely.

 

I'm sure it is more than he would like to admit.

 

Absolutely.

 

Should I expect him to just jump back into a relationship that could very well lead to something long term with no skepticism or fear? Probably not.

 

Definitely not (unless he's an alien?).

 

But today, I'm not feeling very confident about this. Yesterday morning, I said hello. He had been doing a lot of the contacting so going back to your comment of monitoring my behavior, I wanted to make some of the effort as well. I mean, he had contacted me after his soccer game on Tuesday and he contacted me when he exam was over Wednesday night. So we got to talking and how asked me how my morning was. I answered and said "how about you?". He said the usual, that he was being mistreated by his boss. I asked him if he could say anything and he said no, that he would be seen as a troublemaker and they would fire him.

 

Oh, blimey! So he's got yet another massive stress in his head at the mo! Jeez. In that case, he's coping pretty well!

 

So then the conversation went like this:

 

Me: I don't think it is fair that that is the type of work environment you are in. It doesn't matter your job title or how irreplaceable you are or not. You are still a person with feelings and you've worked hard for them for 2 years now. It shouldn't be that you speak to someone about your concerns and they say oh no, you're fired. That is not right

 

Him: 33 months

 

Me: Yes and that is long enough to have gained respect. They shouldn't treat you like that"

 

Him: Oh well

 

Men are conflict avoidant compared to women... They prefer to keep their powder dry as they study the 'enemy situation' more thoroughly, and THEN act (or walk away). Until that point, it's *shrug, Well, I dunno?!*.... particularly your already war-weary. Men are evolutionarily more energy efficient and geared towards sudden, quick bursts of very high energy. They can't AFFORD to leap unnecessarily/prematurely and thereby waste energy.

 

Me: I know you said something about how it is a foot in the door but have you thought about considering other options? I know your company is pretty larger but if you can't ask for a raise, benefits, paid holidays, etc. then you aren't being allowed to succeed in your career. What about that position with that other company that is open"

 

Uh-oh... you're sounding like mum again.

 

Him: I'll apply to that tonight. I swear, I promise Don't play until 10:15 so I'll have plenty of time.

 

And he's sounding like the son who hasn't yet got around to doing his homework. Amanda, the response is, 'Oh, cripes! What are you planning to do? Anything yet?'.

 

Me: Well do it for you, because you want to. You deserve more than what your work is giving you.

 

Him: I'll be excited if other options become real opportunities. Maybe have a bargaining chip with my work. Who knows. I think as of today through next year, they would simply say bye and not care. But when Bob retires next year and a few other people become available for retirement in a year or two, I'd like to think I'd be a real consideration. How was lunch btw? We had our Xmas pot luck. So much food! So many different cultures. Real yummy. My tummy is really twisted, lol"

 

Note his 'shrug' (bold). And note the sudden switching of your attention to lunch. Translation: Tsk - enough! - back off! - I'm not ready to be pushed.

 

Me: I haven't eaten yet. Bu yes, always good to have options. I always wanted to work for this one company, but after interning there, I did care much for it. I never expected to be where I am not, but it is a much better fit for me. I just want you to be happy in a career setting and feel valued and that people appreciate the work that you do".

 

And note how you failed to take the hint and steered the convo back round again (- Cross!).

 

And you know what he said.....NOTHING. I haven't heard anything from him since that conversation at 1pm yesterday.

 

Course not. He's not going to knock on the front door of chivvying and pressuring, is he.

 

So I'm kind of annoyed by it. And I won't lie, he lives pretty close to my work so I did my own little drive by on my way home. He was there.

 

(LOL. But wasn't it too much effort?) Anyway - be annoyed at yourself; you reaped what you sowed there.

 

But that is not going to fly with me. I don't expect him to text me 24/7, but he wouldn't like it if I was being nice, caring, supportive and helpful when he vents and then he just ignores it. So I won't say anything but maybe my silence will make a point. We are "supposed" to hang out tonight but I don't think it is my responsibility to say anything to him, ESPECIALLY since he didn't respond to me yesterday.

 

Oh, what a tangled web we [commitmentphobes] weave when first we practise to SELF-SABOTAGE by sounding LIKE NON-SECRET, NAG-NAG-NAGGING MUM AS HAS HIM STEERING CLEAR FOR A WHILE UNTIL YOU'VE SNAPPED BACK OUT OF OF IT!

 

xoxo

[calichick007]

Continually talking at him about growing up, taking his career more seriously, being more ambitious, etc. is going to get you nowhere. If you wanted a stable, ambitious, upwardly-mobile mate, you should have chosen one. I don't mean that harshly, so I'm sorry if it sounds that way. It is clear that you've picked someone who is content to stagnate where he is and kvetch about it, rather than grow up and do better. If he's the one you're choosing - and it seems that he is - you have to take him how you found him. He'll grow up if/when he decides he wants to, not because you keep encouraging him to do it. I have a brother who is in his late 40s, and he's still irresponsible, still stagnant in his career, still totally lacking in ambition. He's been through 3 wives, all of whom were very nice women who nurtured and encouraged him - and ironically, all 3 were miles ahead of him aesthetically. I think they all thought they could transform him into a good husband, good provider, mature man, etc. with their love. It doesn't work that way. This is why you have to be very careful with and cognizant of who you choose.

[Nattersmatter]

Nope, you're not being harsh, Cali - just truthful. I absolutely agree: The guy is NOT in a good place right now (assuming he ever was and this is just a big blip but he underneath has potential?), despite he's obviously TRYING as well as temporarily succeeding whenever he momentarily swings towards positivity and better, healthier attitude.

 

Personally, at this point in my life I would be kicking him unceremoniously to the kerb. Because although you CAN see tenacity rewarded at the end of the day, and despite overcoming any challenge is fun when it's fun, the minute they swing back to Prat Mode it definitely is NOT fun and frankly there are too many other areas of your life where you could be investing such massive energies and with far quicker/better returns. ...Particularly as there ARE loads more, better fish in the sea, which, indeed, as you rightly say, if you use your savviness to ensure you pick in the FIRST place, you can have much more fun with via the alternative and superior form of challenge called, 'Wow, just how incredibly close, bonded and all-round inspiring and impressive can this union *get*?!'

 

But it takes having had enough sh*t and nonsense to make YOU, the WOMAN, cease pratting around trying to encourage flakes to get with the programme, where you WILL pick more carefully at the outset so that WHEN the chemistry followed by attachment grabs you by the throat, you're not "locked in" by that incredible strength of feeling with a prat, but with a PRINCE...a prince over whom the torture about how to face extricating yourself painfully from isn't even something you have to consider.

 

This is why I keep saying - even if Amanda and this guy *don't* end up getting it back together, the exhaustion, frustration and disappointment will do her good.

 

However, it's impossible if you're a 'newbie' to MAKE that decision to give up and walk away as early as a veteran would, PARTICULARLY as you cannot apply the attitude of "People don't change" to everyone just because too many can't and don't. SOME ABSOLUTELY *CAN AND DO*. Hell, I'm one of them (albeit my problem wasn't - ugh - flakiness), and I've known many, many more. (Frankly, had I not? I'd have topped meself by now!) And was it in each of these cases due to the responses of other people as a contributory factor? You BET it was! Because people are responsive beings.

 

But the problem-person needs to place importance on whichever motivatory factor(s) presents in the first place, and, frankly, as we can now plainly see - Amanda hasn't yet tried wholeheartedly BEING that motivatory factor over all other motivatory factors yet. She keeps spoiling the carrot that she is with flashes of "mummy mould". She needs to cut that out - RIGHT out. As I always say: if you want special, you have to BE special.

 

In other words, *nothing* 'works' unless what is applied as a strategy during the 'suck and see' is free of all possible countering negatives. That takes discipline which itself takes proper understanding over which bits can or can't and won't work and why as well as which bits do and will.

 

Ultimately, it's Potential that can scupper. Unless you were born with or lived long enough to accrue immense wisdom and insight, it's very difficult to tell the difference in the first stages between someone with potential that can be harnessed and someone with potential that can't and won't ever (or not on your timeline), particularly if that person has actually been seen to put their potential to USE in your first couple of months together, only to lock it away again later down the line.

 

So, no - you can't "transform" a man any more than a man can transform a woman. You can only help where motivating them to want to BE a better man is concerned. And then life via their own constant failure through not being a better person, does the rest.

 

xoxo

[Amandacast57]

When I make suggestions to him about his career, I try not to do it in a pushing way. And a lot of it is after he brings things up. I just want the best for him and I thought me giving my input, may open his eyes to opportunities he never thought of.

 

I don't understand him. I tried the whole nonchalant thing. Thought that me not saying anything about hanging out would freak him out. I knew in the back of my mind that it would back fire and it did.

 

I texted him at 2am last night and told him I was so I'll with him. He responded this morning by going off on how I mentioned getting together last night earlier in the week and I said nothing more about it to him and that he isn't going to sit around waiting and hoping. And that he didn't appreciating waking up to my text about how I was mad at him.

 

Then I start thinking ok, I did invite him. Should I have said something to him about it to confirm? We had not picked an actual time or how we would meet up, etc.

 

So then that all reverts back to me needing to pay attention to my behavior. What if he was waiting for me to say something? Did I just prove his fears about girls? Yes, I still went to the bar but I didn't speak to any guys. I just talked with my friend and her husband.

 

But then I asked him when he would be home today so I could return his things.

 

I'm so in the fence about everything. If we were in a relationship, we wouldn't be walking on these eggshells of "ok, who's going to make the first move" or wondering what is acceptable or unacceptable.

[Nattersmatter]

We know you "just" want to help him but SOMETIMES help is a bad thing, particularly if not wanted.... in the same way where you behaving in such a way as goes a very large part towards creating and furthering a permanent relationship - specifically, being a WOMAN and taking the responsive-only role during the period which demands such - can be a bad thing if the man is too used to OTHER control-freak women who think they're men and take the man's role. BUT... despite these women might by their constant control endeavours get to stay IN the relationship - trust me, that relationship is PANTS!!!...and then they wise up however-many years later and divorce the ugger or he divorces her because he doesn't need a mum-figure any more and wants/needs to fly using his own wings. And this is because at the point when they'd got locked-in, neither of them wanted a permanent union for its own pure sake.

 

See his attempt to force you to chase after HIS lazy a*se in worded motion: (basically) "but you were the one said about getting together and then didn't say anything else about it so I assumed you'd gone off the idea".

 

OLLOCKS!!! This is WHY he lets the woman take the wheel and steer! Because then he gets to be FLAKEY with a brilliant excuse!

 

No, you should *not* have said anything, IT'S NOT YOUR JOB, ITS HIS! Or does he have a pair of boobs and a box as well?! He may as well do, doncha think?! And, yes, his job INCLUDED having set the actual 'place and time' right at the moment where he'd SORT-OF (pff) accepted your invitation for Friday night and issued his own about this whole weekend (or certainly any time since)!

 

So he shouldn't BE - quote - always waiting for you to say something.

 

Tell me, Amanda - were you the one who right from the start of this relationship and all the way through to his first pull-out was constantly asking HIM out on dates with you? Either your answer is no, he was doing it - WHICH IS HOW IT *SHOULD* BE SO WHY ISN'T HE STILL DOING IT! - or your answer's yes and you were both going against the natural order (in which case, no wonder it splatted!).

 

And even if he WAS waiting for you to say something - what's wrong with HIS fingers that he couldn't text to say, 'So what time are we meeting tonight?' (since it's his manly right and role, anyway)?

 

No! What you got instead was him behaving like a sulky woman because you'd not done his job for him and then as PUNISHMENT for your not having done his work, WELCHING ON HIS WEEKEND INVITATION! And YET - PERVERSELY - his underlying reason for punishing you is for having taken his liberty of asking him out on a date on Friday night to begin with and telling him how to do stuff (how to be *better* than he is) on top!... (only he himself probably doesn't know that, he probably hasn't got a clue how to read his own mind and motives.)

 

Pa

The

TIC!!!!!!!!!!!

 

When I said watch your behaviour you KNOW it was in regards to you ensuring you did your womanly role and didn't do his. You KNOW that.

 

Don't even offer to return his things, either. They're HIS things so HE can damn well ask for them back! You see?? - by even SAYING you'll return his things - you're STILL doing it!

 

So get OFF the fence... You are 100% correct about this bit: "If we were in a relationship, we wouldn't be walking on these eggshells of "ok, who's going to make the first move" or wondering what is acceptable or unacceptable."

 

Scuse the crude analogy but truthfully this is no different to you having taken the liberty of spoonfeeding him his meals when with him, then him having come to expect it to the extent where next thing you know, because you've failed to take the initiative to call round every mealtime to feed him, he's suddenly sat there at the table staring helplessly at the fridge like he never even originally had a clue how to feed himself, meanwhile getting more and more resentful AT YOU for not being there.... whereupon he waits until you get in contact to recriminate you over it and wreak revenge by denying you something *you* need.

 

But NOBODY is that stupid, clueless and helpless nor petty! Again - this scenario is just him USING the fact that you're a control freak... a control freak who has been conditioned to feel BAD AND GUILTY if ever you do fail to be the one who does everything for everyone else... as his excuse for getting his own way over flippin' *everything* with zero regard for what other people might want and need!!! Including you! In other words, he SEES you have an interpersonal issue and USES IT AS A WEAPON AGAINST YOU!

 

Pa

The

TIC!!!

 

He's slid right back into dishing out nonsense again!

 

Do nothing. *Don't* return his crap. Tell him he's got one week to come collect his stuff from outside your front door/wherever until you put it with the rest of the rubbish for the bin men.

 

Amanda, you're a go-getter. You need another go-getter as your partner. Like *has* to be with Like if they are to stand being around and functioning with each other. Opposites Attract only to immature teenagers who think if you don't have a relationship that runs like a demented flea on hot coals (up-down-up-down-scream-cry-angst by the bucketful), including contriving problems in the first place, just like they do on telly/in the movies, they're not like "real grown ups" enough.

 

You have NOTHING left to try now. Now you have to, like I said recently, go Zero Contact. And I do mean Zero. Let's see if baby who knows perfectly well how to crawl loves Teddy enough as well as loves *having* a Teddy enough that, after he's thrown Teddy accross the room wherein he's the only one in it, he damn well crawls over to GET IT BACK and thereafter is a darn sight more careful not to THROW Teddy in the first place!

 

Surely that analogy shows you just how simple this exercise really is???

 

xoxo