What does love even mean? (a conversation with my s/o) advice?

[tygerwolf]

So my wonderful boyfriend and I have been together for almost 6 months now. We spend every day together. But somethings been bothering me a bit lately... Neither of us have said "I love you" yet. Heres a conversation my boyfriend and I had today that bothered me a little bit. Please tell me what you think.

 

So we were in the car and the subject of love came up. I was talking about the movie "Gone with the Wind." And how I typically dont care for romantic movies because the love in them seemed cheap or superficial. But how I really liked the love story in "Gone with the Wind." He agreed and so we got into the topic of love...

 

My boyfriend made a point to ask me what I think love means. Asked me to define it. I said, "its putting that person before yourself; self sacrifice. Thats real love." He said, "but couldnt you also call that caring"? I said yes. He said he has no problem saying "I love you" but he thinks as a society we have cheapened the word by overusing it. We say," I love that movie!" "I love the way your hair looks." "I love my cat Froofroo, hes so cute." ect.. His point being, the word itself is cheap and has lost its meaning in a lot of ways. He believes that showing caring is better and more valuable than the use of the word love.

 

It bothered me because I have been preparing myself to tell him those three magic words soon. Now im not so sure that I should. Our conversation hurt my feeling a little bit. A lot of the reason is because when we first started dating, he asked me if I had ever been in love before. He said yes he had too but only once, to his ex-wife. Now this was a while back, but in my mind I referred back to it when we had our conversation today. I guess it hurts my feelings a bit that he would readily admit that he was in love at a time, but seems reluctant to say it to me.

 

What do you think? Should I wait for him to say it or should I just go for it and explain what I mean when I say it. I agree that words are cheap. But my heart yearns to say it and to hear him say it to me as well. He shows it every day to me. But I would really love to hear it. Is that fair?

[Generation]

What matters is what the word means to you.

 

I remember when people used to use the word epic all the time, that word got so cheap cause everything was epic, even a crappy 4/10 movie. I will still say that word when the word truly deserves to be used. I won't use another word just cause a few people ruined it for everyone else. And when I say epic, you best believe that it's truly epic, such as LOTR, that was an epic movie and I really mean that.

[Deciduous]

Hi tygerwolf,

 

Your boyfriend values "actions" over "words". I understand that. A wise policy.

 

However I wonder if his reluctance to say those "three little words" is fall-out from his previous marriage. Perhaps he felt those words were proven to have very little value in retrospect. This has made him gun-shy.

 

That is fine and that is his choice. However you are assuming that you must subscribe to the same sentiments.

He has spoken frankly as he sees things. Now it is your turn to speak frankly on how you see things. That's how relationships work. Both partners authentically speaking up.

 

Bottling up your own feelings on the subject only leads to unnecessary resentment. There is no need for accusation or hurt because he hasn't done anything wrong. As far as he is aware you agree with his policy.

 

I know it is scary but you don't want this to turn into the elephant-in-the-room scenario.

 

For many of us, saying "I love you" is all part of the emotional support and affection that goes into relationships. It's not the most important part, but a meaningful part, nonetheless, that lets your partner know they are secure in their affections.

 

He may not need to hear them, but you sure do. And there is nothing wrong with that. The problem here is that you haven't communicated your views on the subject. How is he to know? He doesn't know how important these verbal exchanges are to you.

 

I would suggest that your calmly tell him in a loving letter that lets him know you appreciate everything he has given you - but you also feel a little hampered in speaking up about your emotions for him and the relationship, describe in detail how important those verbal exchanges are for you, in terms of reassurance and honest emotional exchange.

 

He doesn't need to agree,(although he may well do so once he genuinely understands how important it is to you) but he does need to know.

 

Deci

[RedDress]

I agree that the word "love" is overused and it gets cheapened in that way.

 

To me, love is a deep appreciation of the other person. If you truly know a person and truly love a person, you will always love them - because what you are in love with is their morals, their beliefs, the way they interact with the world, etc. Those things don't change. You may get mad at them... you may even decide that you can't be with them... but that underlying respect and caring would always be there.

 

I don't really agree that self-sacrifice is love.

 

I think you should bring the conversation back up with him (before you say those words to him). Ask HIM what he thinks love is. If he's been in love before, he must know what it means...

 

I think he was subtly telling you not to say it to him right now...

 

Besides... you should never say it to hear it back. What if he's not ready to say it back? You should say it because YOU want to say it, whether you hear it back or not (and be prepared for that very real possibility)

[Circe]

To me, love is a deep appreciation of the other person. If you truly know a person and truly love a person, you will always love them - because what you are in love with is their morals, their beliefs, the way they interact with the world, etc. Those things don't change. You may get mad at them... you may even decide that you can't be with them... but that underlying respect and caring would always be there.

 

I don't really agree that self-sacrifice is love.

 

I think you can stop loving someone. Peoples' morals and beliefs and the way they interact with the world Can change. On top of that, the way you subjectively perceive the other person also contributes to your "love" of them - as does how they behave towards you. Those things can change. The person can do something that causes you to stop respecting them.. lots can change..

 

But I agree that self-sacrifice and love are not synonymous.

 

I agree with what your boyfriend says about love, OP. If he prefers the word caring because it's less overused and means the same thing (I think love is basically a very deep level of caring - and that entails forgiveness, respect, empathy, willingness to compromise, admiration, loyalty, appreciation etc) then I don't think you have to take that as an insult. And it need not hurt you. It doesn't necessarily means he cares less for you than he did for his ex.

 

Maybe just tell him that you prefer the word love because - while you too use it "inappropriately" some time (as in "I love ice cream") - you know the difference between when you say it that way and when you mean it literally - and then tell him you love him?

[velvette]

I don't think, in this case, "love" is considered cheap to either of you. yes, you both may say 'i love ice cream' etc, but obviously you both regard the saying "I love you" as something very strong, since you both have not said it yet!! it seems kind of contradictory that he will say he's only loved one person, and yet mention love is 'cheap'. if it is, then he would've 'loved' almost everyone...?

 

I don't say "I love you" to many people at all. that phrase is still powerful to me, even if I say "I loved that show/dinner/joke" etc.

[lavenderdove]

I think what he is telling you is he is not the kind of person to throw the word or the idea of 'love' around based on a passing whim. To him love is something deeper and more meaningful, and he most likely will only use that word when he is very serious about the relationship and feelings for you.

 

Many people are not comfortable 'emoting' all the time and throwing out what might be an exaggeration. So saying 'I love you' might mean very different things to different people. It could mean 'I really like having sex with you' or 'I'm really having a great time with you,' or 'I am taking you so seriously i am thinking about marriage' or 'if i say I love you, she'll get excited and put out.' So love can be a true expression of emotion, or it can be used to manipulate other people or to mean someone is very excited about you for whatever reason, but not 'in love' with you.

 

So saying 'i love you' doesn't fix or change anything, especially because it can mean different things to different people. Some people say 'i love you' so much it is no different than saying 'hi, how ya doing?'. It is gratuitous and automatic and no meaninful, like saying 'have a nice day'.... i.e., 'love you honey' every time you hang up the phone has become an automatic reaction and not an expression of any deep feeling at the moment.

 

So i don't think your BF said/did anything wrong here... he's letting you know he takes love seriously, and is not the type to spew those words before he is ready to make a serious commitment.

 

You can of course tell him you love him if you feel it is important to you, but don't expect him to BE you and feel the same way. His feelings may be on the same level as yours, but he may not declare love until he is ready to marry or has stronger feelings. If you say I love you, it should be because YOU feel that way, not because you expect him to say it back or feel exactly the same way you do at that exact same moment.

 

I also think 6 months is too soon to expect a huge commitmenet or undying love from him... you mention an ex-wife, but how long has that been over? he may not be willing to jump back into a serious commitment at this point depending on how that marriage went and when/how it ended.

 

So instead of thinking 'i love you' is some kind of magic elixir, you need to instead talk to him about your goals, expectations etc. and see if his intentions line up with yours. Do you want to marry, and marry in the next 2, 5, or 10 years? do you want to have kids in a certain timeframe? Does he see himself as potentially having enough positive feelings to continue and maybe get serious, or is he just having fun with no thought to a future commitment? What are his personal goals and their relationship to you? So start seeing if you're compatible and on the same page rather than trying to extract 3 words from him that may mean something very different to him than they do to you.

[RadicalDreamer]

In my opinion, people make two equal and opposite mistakes when it comes to love (which is a loaded word to begin with!)

 

First, many people will say that Love is a feeling, which leads to the much-ballyhooed confusion with infatuation that makes up about 90% of the discussion on the subject. Love is more than that. The keywords there are more than, but I'll get to that distinction later.

 

And others will see the futility of the above, but make the mistake of going the complete opposite direction. They'll say that the "real" love isn't defined by what you feel, but what you do. They hold that romantic feelings and chemistry are completely irrelevant and that only commitment matters. This sort of definition values perseverance and hard work to the exclusion of genuine, heartfelt affection. The keyword there is exclusion.

 

In my opinion, the truth, as is so often the case lies between the extremes. Yes, real love means commitment and effort, but that commitment and effort has to be sincere. And you know what? Feelings are the very root of sincerity. Anything else is going through the motions. Doing the right thing simply because you feel you're supposed to do it is no more admirable than someone who abstains from murder simply because of the penalties it might incur.

 

You can't truly love if you're not willing to put in the effort, but you can't truly love if you don't feel it either. It's not a one-or-the-other thing.

 

To the OP: I think it's a good sign that your BF is hesitant to toss the word around. He's probably still confused about the concept of love--which means he's honest What will probably happen if the relationship continues to deepen and blossom is that you'll probably have love before either of you says the word. And that is much better than vice versa.

[Batya33]

You can talk about the meaning of "love" until the cows come home. My advice is watch the feet -what he does, not the lips - what he says - and you have to decide whether his way of expressing love works for you, especially for the long term. For example I'm a person who needs to feel cared for but also needs the words.

Other people don't need the words or focus on whether they're overused and therefore shy away from saying them. You also have to decide whether you believe that even though he will not be using the words much if at all, whether you believe he loves you.

 

 

By way of another example, a friend of mine has been dating someone for 1.5 years. They are exclusive but he has yet to say I love you -he claims he has a problem expressing those types of feelings. On the other hand he's had little problem logging on to dating sites, affair sites and he also has never been married and is not really interested in marriage. In that case- I would say who cares whether he's said the words -the actions aren't consistent with being faithful, much less with making a long term commitment. So, how do you feel about his feelings on what love is and how it should be expressed?

[oceandream]

Whilst I agree the actions of love are the most important, I still believe the words of love are also important. I think it takes courage and creates intimacy by truly saying what is in your heart and how you feel about someone. Maybe this doesnt involve the words "I love you" but nevertheless those words sure are nice to hear and say when you both truly mean it.

[LSgirl]

I was in the same boat as you. My boyfriend takes the word love very strongly and has only felt that way ONCE in his life and that was with his ex-fiancee, but she cheated on him. Finally, on our one year anniversary I told him I loved him knowing he wouldn't say it back, of cours he did not say it back, but I felt relieved. We've been together for about 1 year and 2 months now and I don't think I will ever hear it. I think he's tried to love me, I'm not sure, but for him I think he will only tell me if he's serious and sees a future with me. It makes me sad and eats at me sometimes, but actions show otherwise, it's a tough situation.

[90_hour_sleep]

not a deliberate attempt to be philosophical here...but i think as soon as one attempts to define love, the point has been missed. the definitions conjure up a world of expectation (which love really has no room for). they attempt to categorize and solidify something which cannot and will not be put into a neat little package of blissful understanding.

 

i agree with Deci, though. what love means is really secondary in terms of it's relevance in a relationship. the point isn't to agree on what it means, but to foster understanding between two people who may operate at opposite ends of the spectrum. it's about communicating your needs within the union in a way that promotes further growth of that union. you don't have to agree on the nature of love to express and reciprocate; but, you do need to be on the same page with what each others' needs are. if you need to hear the words, then you need to discover a way to adequately communicate that need to him. and in order for that to work, he'll need to be receptive to your communication. that's the bridge. that's where most relationships meet their maker. gotta build the bridge and walk it.