Are there 2 separate reasons to date someone?

[Dougie_D]

Tonight, I had a "girl" friend cry to me about a situation.. some jerk was involved...

 

Isn't this was "boyfriends" are suppose to do? I got the feeling she needed comfort and some type of protection?

 

But she's not attracted to me as boyfriend material.

 

Do girls just want attraction first? And they they HOPE for the emotional part later?

 

I could have been a jerk and ignore her calls, but I'm not that way, because we've established ourselves as friends.

 

I know I talk this a lot..

 

But bottom line? ATTRACTION is boyfriend material? No matter what??

[Polis]

I don't really understand the point to this thread. Usually people date people they are attracted to, that's how the dating thing works. Even if there isn't initial attraction it could build over time.

 

Anyway, I think most of your issues can be simply solved by forming a Yardbirds or Dinosaur Jr. cover band.

[Thorshammer]

Yes, you NEED attraction, either now or later- she needs to be attached/interested to/in you in some way.

 

She could have went to anyone who she was willing to trust and was willing to listen to her. So a situation like this doesnt mean much unless she has some kind of attraction to you.

[Ilona Crow]

Tonight, I had a "girl" friend cry to me about a situation.. some jerk was involved...

 

Isn't this was "boyfriends" are suppose to do? I got the feeling she needed comfort and some type of protection?

 

I think a huge part of your problem is that you might see this as a "boyfriend" job, but generally women do not. Women cry to their friends, male or female, when they need to. Women are generally more likely to talk about their feelings with friends, and you can see this even in an all-female group.

[Fudgie]

Men often fall into the trap of being with a female friend and having her confide in him and cry to him about her problems, and thinking that there may be some attraction or potential. Many women talk to their guy friends about (as you said) their guy problems. Unfortunately, this emotional confiding often confuses men and makes them think that there is potential for something more. However, the women just see it as "friends supporting friends" and nothing more.

 

The vulgar term for this phenomenon is "being an emotional tampon".

 

If you enjoy her company, then I say just keep friends, but as of right now, I wouldn't really expect anything to come of it. It's obvious she trusts you and feels comfortable telling you things, but it ends there.

 

Attraction is needed for a romantic relationship.

[Day_Walker]

Im hard pressed to say that there has to be attraction first, in some instances a particular guy will grow on a girl. It is difficult to speak in general terms but it is not necessarily the case that attraction has to come first.

[Alezia]

I don't understand how you expect her to turn to a boyfriend, if the problem is with said love interest. I'm not sure about you, but I'm not usually in the habit of turning towards people who have an issue with me or with whom I am mad against. In a situation where you do have an explicit boyfriend with whom you are on good terms with, then yes I agree, it is probably the best person to turn towards. Sometimes you also want a perspective from a third neutral party if it is a guy issue - guys are great as they can see the situation from a male perspective. Only problem is that if you have romantic interest in the girl, then you are not a neutral party - so yes, you are not the right person for her to confide in.

 

No, simple attraction may not make someone into boyfriend material every time - but attraction needs to be there in order to have any possibility of turning into boyfriend material. If all you have is an emotional connection, then you are simply friends.

[Generation]

Bottom line, you need attraction to start anything. I always believed attraction is the most important foundation for anything to begin, and then the other qualities come into play (but what Day_Walker said is true too). Otherwise you might as well keep people as friends if you're not attracted to them, which is probably why you get friend zoned a lot.

[Alezia]

I think most people can decide whether or not to pursue more within a few meetings. Some people can decide quicker, but some people need more information.

[epsilon2x]

Tonight, I had a "girl" friend cry to me about a situation.. some jerk was involved...

 

Isn't this was "boyfriends" are suppose to do? I got the feeling she needed comfort and some type of protection?

 

But she's not attracted to me as boyfriend material.

 

Do girls just want attraction first? And they they HOPE for the emotional part later?

 

I could have been a jerk and ignore her calls, but I'm not that way, because we've established ourselves as friends.

 

I know I talk this a lot..

 

But bottom line? ATTRACTION is boyfriend material? No matter what??

 

Well I definitely don't approach a girl because I think she might have an awesome personality. It's solely based on looks, then I get to know her. So yes, attraction is a must.

[Dougie_D]

I don't want to be a Dougie Downer...but it seems like the majority of every GIRL I know, I'm just friends with her. And I know a lot of girls or have been in contact with them, especially in college.

 

I am working out and working on getting myself in shape and my appropiate weight. (I'm only 10 lbs away). In highschool, I was thinner. And during my early years of college.

If I had NEVER been able to have that ATTRACTION toward girls those times, what makes anyone think that I'm EVER going to have attraction towards someone now? I've talked, hit on SO MANY GIRLS!!!

 

I'm 31 and I look I'm in my 30's! I mean, if it's really never been about someone's personality and all about the SPARK...and I don't have it? I'm just feeling pretty bad.

 

Is it my EARS? My HAIR? The fact that I literally CAN'T SMILE? (show teeth?) I have a slight overbite, so I have to kinda open my mouth...it never FEELS natural.

 

I have a WEIRD shape head. Everything about me is terrible except that I can BE THERE WHEN A FRIEND NEEDS ME.

 

How can someone tell me to SNAP out of it, when the truth is that I'm just not able to ATTRACT someone? Being myself is not helping me. I'm getting pretty sad.

[Thorshammer]

Doug, quit bringing yourself down.

 

My cousin has a huge under-bite, big nose, odd shaped head- but he gets a lot of women, pretty women. He gets rejected at least 80% of the time- and we always laugh- but that 20% is a lot when it adds up.

 

The guy is very funny, very social, has various interests. Work on things you can work on, and stop with this defeatist attitude.

[shotinthedark]

Doug, quit bringing yourself down.

 

My cousin has a huge under-bite, big nose, odd shaped head- but he gets a lot of women, pretty women. He gets rejected at least 80% of the time- and we always laugh- but that 20% is a lot when it adds up.

 

The guy is very funny, very social, has various interests. Work on things you can work on, and stop with this defeatist attitude.

 

Listen to this guy... he's exactly right. All that matters is how you see yourself. Judging by your self perception, your body language probably comes off as weak and lacking confidence... and women can smell that a mile away.

[Blue Spiral]

I've experienced that as well, unfortunately. She wants to have sex with the alpha male, but she needs emotional support from someone more cerebral/less callous. Pretty much every woman I've ever known has been like that. They are nice enough to have sex with me in-between alpha males, though.

[Slimpee]

Dude, quit whining and focusing on what you DON'T have and tell yourself everyday what you DO like about yourself. If you can't think of much, asked loved ones and friends. If you still can't think of much, maybe go get treated for depression or something.

 

Women ARE NOT attracted to negativity and that's all i see from you on ENA.

[Dougie_D]

Dude, quit whining and focusing on what you DON'T have and tell yourself everyday what you DO like about yourself. If you can't think of much, asked loved ones and friends. If you still can't think of much, maybe go get treated for depression or something.

 

Women ARE NOT attracted to negativity and that's all i see from you on ENA.

 

It's not easy as people think it is. First off, my parents remind me constantly of the things that I don't have and what I do wrong. My father, especially, thinks that if I don't do it "his way", "act his way", etc...that I'm not doing ANYTHING right. I understand where he comes from because he is self made man with basically NO parenthood. He was taking care of his parents at age 13 because they were alcoholics and extremely poor. So, because he is extremely SUCCESSFUL and he was alone all the time, he thinks that the way to have success is the way he has done things. And that mind set goes with the littlest things in life. Like BAGEL CUTTING. Who does that?

 

I know women and people don't like other people who are constantly negative. I'm trying to work on this. I'm not a negative person. I'm a modest person and I tell the truth.

 

Plus, I've been surrounded by negativity since BIRTH. I used to wear hearing aids and I was a sick kid. When you go to the doctors A LOT when you are kid.. I had at least 7 tube operations before I was 10 years old. EACH time, I went under. Then when you go to school, and other kids don't want to be around you, make fun of you, etc...and then you come home and your dad decide to takes out his problems on you.. I don't know. I don't have very good memories. I just remember BAD crap.

 

I have a hard time ENJOYING life because I am constantly thinking I'm doing something wrong, or people are making fun of me behind my back. The reason why I've always wanted a GIRLFRIEND is because it would at least give some type of VALIDATION that someone would actually like me for who I am on emotional level and romantic level.

 

It's hard for me to find POSITIVES in my life when I don't have much going for myself. It doesn't mean I'm not trying, but being constantly rejected is normal for me. It's almost like I have some sick state of mind, that if somethings NOT negative, then something is wrong with me. I was raised with NEGATIVE ATTENTION and not much positive moments. That's why I don't take compliments very well. I just assume they think I'm depressed and they will try to cheer me up, even if they don't TRULY mean what they said.

[Dougie_D]

Oh, I know this is probably really bad... But because my parents have made me feel guilty in life and constantly remind me how I can't take care of myself. When they give me money, I don't feel bad about taking it. Simple as that. They can make fun of me and judge me all they want because they help me financially. When that money is gone. Goodbye Family.

 

And I think my parents know it. That's another reason why they help me not even asking me. I rarely talk to them. I think the only way they I think I will love them is through money. Sometimes, yes.

[capuccino83]

Putting aside my own opinions on law of attraction and that kind of stuff, you're a prime candidate so I actually encourage you to seek it out. Nothing in your life will change with your negative attitude. At least you recognize it.. but are doing nothing to change it. Maybe if you read a book and someone explains why you should start thinking positive it'll have a stronger impact..

[capuccino83]

And you should also fix your relationship with your parents. IT sounds like you're blaming them for everything. There's a room for such a thing as forgiveness and empathy when you're an adult - which you are.

[Fudgie]

Dougie, I remember we've talked about this before:

 

Your parents are very negative and frankly, aren't good for you. You are forced to deal with them still because they pay your bills. I really still believe that it's best for you to get out of L.A., get out of that huge city, get a job, and start living on your own and paying your own bills. Not only will this boost your self confidence that you can make it on your own, you won't have to deal with your parents and you'll be farther from them.

 

You're 31 now. It's time to make a change.

 

Your childhood and environment are not excuses for why you need to languish. If it bothers you, then you need to make changes and leave. My boyfriend had a horrid childhood with a crack addict mother and no father. He has health problems as well as spent months in the hospital when he was young. He is doing quite fine now, he's happy, and he has a GF (me). If he let his beginnings define him, he'd probably end up the same as his mother. But he's not that way.

 

You are 31 now. I know you are passionate about music but nothing has happened. It's really time for you to go out and find something you can do that will make you independent. You complain about your parents, yet you say "oh well, they give me money...". You really are in no position to complain. Do you really want to be like this for the rest of your life? I don't think so. Go out and be independent so you don't have to deal with these people OR take their money.

 

Also, validation is NOT a good reason for a girlfriend. If you are looking for self-validation and unconditional love for who you are, then I really suggest getting a puppy. Relationships are supposed to challenge you, make you change, support you, and offers you a new perspective on LIFE. Girlfriends are not for self-validation because you can't love yourself right now. If you go into a relationship with that mindset, I can almost promise you it won't end well.

[Slimpee]

Dougie, I remember we've talked about this before:

 

Your parents are very negative and frankly, aren't good for you. You are forced to deal with them still because they pay your bills. I really still believe that it's best for you to get out of L.A., get out of that huge city, get a job, and start living on your own and paying your own bills. Not only will this boost your self confidence that you can make it on your own, you won't have to deal with your parents and you'll be farther from them.

 

People on the internet can't make this type of judgment about moving away from your parents and the city you live in...we don't know the situation. But I think Fudgie has a point about working out things with your parents. There are definitely some deep issues that probably need resolving. And it would definitely be good to be self-supporting.

 

You're 31 now. It's time to make a change.

Not more making excuses.

 

Your childhood and environment are not excuses for why you need to languish. If it bothers you, then you need to make changes and leave. My boyfriend had a horrid childhood with a crack addict mother and no father. He has health problems as well as spent months in the hospital when he was young. He is doing quite fine now, he's happy, and he has a GF (me). If he let his beginnings define him, he'd probably end up the same as his mother. But he's not that way.

This is true. I've known several people with horrific things that have happened to them that have never complained and developed a "woe is me" complex. They're all doing really great things. I mean, you had hearing aids and were self-conscious when you were a kid. But you're reasonably healthy now. You have parents who support you financially. Your life isn't that bad. In fact, many people would love to have what you have.

 

You are 31 now. I know you are passionate about music but nothing has happened. It's really time for you to go out and find something you can do that will make you independent. You complain about your parents, yet you say "oh well, they give me money...". You really are in no position to complain. Do you really want to be like this for the rest of your life? I don't think so. Go out and be independent so you don't have to deal with these people OR take their money.

 

The article to which i posted talked about in another thread discussed how people who have a plan to get what they want, and then work towards that plan, are more confident with themselves. Conversely, someone who is doing something "beneath" them and thinks should be doing something better are not confident in themselves. This shows outwardly no matter how hard you try not to let it or pretend it doesn't.

 

Also, validation is NOT a good reason for a girlfriend. If you are looking for self-validation and unconditional love for who you are, then I really suggest getting a puppy. Relationships are supposed to challenge you, make you change, support you, and offers you a new perspective on LIFE. Girlfriends are not for self-validation because you can't love yourself right now. If you go into a relationship with that mindset, I can almost promise you it won't end well.

 

This is 100% correct. You have all of these self-esteem and confidence issues and you think it's because you don't have a woman. No, you don't have a woman BECAUSE of the self-esteem and confidence issues. I PROMISE you that's true and most women on ENA will agree with me.

 

If you fix the confidence and self-esteem issues (which probably will require professional help, not just anonymous posters on the internet) I will virtually guarantee you that you'll have better luck with women. No, not every woman will like you and you will still get rejected sometimes (just like every other guy in the world) but if you work on your self-esteem and confidence you will slowly stop looking to women to validate you, you'll be more comfortable and confident, and THAT'S when you'll find someone to date.

 

Think of it a little like a house. Which would you rather buy, the house w/ the great paint and nice windows but a shaky foundation and rotting framing or a house with a solid foundation and framing that could use some new paint and windows? The first may look better on the outside but it will certainly fall apart sometime soon. Conversely, if you buy the solid house and slowly improve the aesthetics, pretty soon you'll have a beautiful home that will last for years. You, my friend, seem to want to the house that has a nice exterior w/out bothering to fix the real issues...

[Blue Spiral]

This is true. I've known several people with horrific things that have happened to them that have never complained and developed a "woe is me" complex. They're all doing really great things. I mean, you had hearing aids and were self-conscious when you were a kid. But you're reasonably healthy now. You have parents who support you financially. Your life isn't that bad. In fact, many people would love to have what you have.

 

Not everyone has the same level of self-esteem, mental toughness, etc. What rolls off of someone else's back can turn me into a headcase for a week. The logical endpoint of this argument is replacing ENA with a picture that says "Somewhere, some kid is starving, so stop complaining about your boyfriend looking at porn, someone not calling you, etc." I don't think this line of argument has any point to it.

 

It's interesting: the only time I see this argument trotted out is when certain types of men have the audacity to complain about their lives. God forbid some of us stop pretending to be alpha males. We're not fooling anyone anyway; it's better to be honest about our problems, even if that means more negativity than the go-getters want to hear.

[Fudgie]

Blue Spiral,

 

I think Slimpee's point (and my point too!) is that it isn't productive to say that you're a failure or are going to fail because of your childhood or other things in your lives. No one said you couldn't complain. This really has nothing to do with being "alpha". Heaven knows, I complain here a lot. However, I'm not pointing to difficult aspects of my childhood or failed relationships and blaming those for my shortcomings.

 

We all go through bad times and it's perfectly normal and healthy to vent and complain about things going on in your life, but Dougie is blaming his parents/childhood for why he's unhappy in his life NOW, rather than actually doing something to change that. And he CAN do something about it.

[Blue Spiral]

Whether or not he--or any of us--can do anything about his situation in life is arguable. I'd rather focus on telling the truth, because any possible solutions will come from it. Telling the truth about how we feel is a lot more productive than magically willing ourselves forward with positive thinking. And sometimes, the truth is that other people and/or your circumstances really are dragging you down. I agree that he should get as far away from his current life as possible, but let's not act like everything will get better if he just starts pretending that things are great.

[RitaTrue]

I think a huge part of your problem is that you might see this as a "boyfriend" job, but generally women do not. Women cry to their friends, male or female, when they need to.

 

Men often fall into the trap of being with a female friend and having her confide in him and cry to him about her problems, and thinking that there may be some attraction or potential. Many women talk to their guy friends about (as you said) their guy problems. Unfortunately, this emotional confiding often confuses men and makes them think that there is potential for something more. However, the women just see it as "friends supporting friends" and nothing more.

 

These two say it best.

 

If she's crying to you about her problems, for empathy or support, it's more or less "friends-supporting-friends" in a woman's psyche.