Please help me sort out a major financial problem in my relationship

[Koglin]

I'm 32, currently living with my girlfriend (also 32) for the past 8 months, we have a good relationship and both have agreed a few months ago that marriage would be the next anticipated step along with starting a family within the next couple of years. The past few months have been very tough for me and after carefully reflecting on the situation it appears that almost all my stresses are now directly linked to our financial situation. What's worse is I have no clue on what to do to rectify the problem so help from you guys would be much appreciated.

 

Quick background. I have a good career with a good income of $60,000 annually, I have option for overtime which allows me to earn more. I am still progressing in my career and anticipate good raises in salary over the next few years. My girlfriend has a very secure career with great benefits and ears $40,000 annually. She doesn't get paid overtime even if she works longer hours. When we met over a year ago I had $14,000 sitting in my bank account, no debt, just paid off my car in full and finances were a non-issue for me. I was happy. Within a years time I now have a consolidated balance in the negative of $4000 and feel that the debt will only get worse in the year to come. What's worse is I now have to try saving for an engagement ring (not cheap these days), figure out how the wedding and honey moon will get paid for along with all these other expenses that come up. What's even more frustrating is that unlike most guys my age I never spend a penny on alcohol or going out to bars or clubs and treat myself to only minimal things. We live in a luxury condo which we rent for $1,700 monthly which I think is too much so we will hopefully change that in a few months when our lease is up.

 

I've voiced these concerns to my girlfriend on quite a few occasions over the past few months but it almost seems like she isn't very interested in hearing it and although she's compasionate and listens she offers no solid advice and doesn't seem to be phased much over money although she's currently sitting in nearly $30,000 worth of debt but carries assets that can pay this debt off and then some if she had an emergency of some sort. But it's not so much my current situation that's causing me to lose sleep at night, what I worry about is her general attitude towards finances. I find that she's more optimistic and unrealistic with an attitude of "let's do this and worry about paying it off later" where as my attitude is always "Can we really afford this? How are we going to pay for this when the bill comes in a month?" So basically anytime something comes up involving spending a large portion of money I always feel like I'm being a controling * * * * * by voicing my concerns on how we can't afford it while she's always telling me that I'm preventing us from doing what couples do and that things will work themselves out in the end, saying "we'll make it work somehow." (a sentence I've learned to hate recently).

 

To give you an example from yesterday. Just the past weekend we had a talk about money and she simply said that last year was expensive for us but this year will be cheaper. Last year was expensive I agree, between expensive holidays, christmas and birthday presents for our immediate families and each other, xmas/birthday gifts for nieces and nephews, mother day and father day gifts, people's birthdays, buying things for our place, anniversary gifts, weddings, baby showers, stagette parties, baptisms, etc. etc. we're talking thousands and thousands of dollars just in those departments alone, which doesn't even include living costs. So we agreed that I would work over time a few days a week to earn more money and that since we already have a trip planned in January (this is when I'm planning on proposing) and trip planned for end of May to visit my grandma in France who's not well and explore the country a bit we would not make any other major trips that year. Well after working a 10 hour day yesterday I come home and she tells me that one of her cousins got suddenly engaged to his new girlfriend of 4 months (who we've met once) and that he's doing a destination wedding in February. I should point out that this cousin of hers is not close with her or us at all and we see him maybe twice a year at family functions. We don't even talk to him unless it's at those functions. Well of course she thinks it would only be appropriate and a splendid idea that we must make this wedding which is probably going to be 5 hour flight to Mexico and we would have to get a one week all inclusive package for the two of us so between that trip and his wedding gift this would set us back around $3,500. The timing couldn't be any worse as I've already booked end of January off for a week and that trip will cost me $2000 but it's suppose to be my treat for our engagement so I'm happy to do it but convincing my boss to give me another week off three weeks later and spend even more money is unreasonable given the circumstances. So I basically told her how I feel about this and as usual she argued that we should go to this wedding vacation and we can figure out details later, etc. My best friend is getting married at a destination wedding in November and I refused to go due to money constraints. I just don't understand why she can't make similar conclusions on her own. I can also suggest that she goes by herself but then how is that fair to me, I'm putting in heavy over time and making cuts on myself while she's not working overtime and going on trips that are beyond our means. I don't mind once or twice but I don't want that to be the norm for us.

 

So basically I put it to her this way, the long overtime I put in from now until that trip (over the next 5 months) will all be blown in one shot on that destination wedding rather than getting out of debt and saving like we've agreed. I did the math this is true. So I put it in perspective for her that I would have to work almost a year of overtime on a regular basis just to break even on that trip for the two of us and that I feel the money should be going elsewhere. At the end of the one hour conversation she basically told me that I just "yap yap yap" in circles too much and that it's stressful and that we'll figure it all out. I replied that we really should not live beyond our means and she replied (jokingly it sounded) with "it's too late for that." So I just told her fine I've voiced what I wanted to and that I don't want her to come to me a year down the line and complain that I didn't do anything about it. I also told her that I won't stress her out over finances anymore because it's getting annoying to her and I'm getting annoyed too, I feel like I'm nagging too much. I feel like I've hit a wall with this.

 

But above all, what scares me the most is, how are we suppose to get married, have kids and buy a house in the next few years when between our combined $100,000 income we basically spend slightly more than what we earn with out all those obligations to begin with. When I tell her this, she is silent and doesn't have much to say regarding the subject.

 

So guys, for those of you that read this far.. Thank you! but what do I do now? I don't have any other major issues in our relationship and I would like to marry this woman as she really is great to me but I just can't shake off this one financial aspect that's affecting me so negatively, ongoingly and in so many ways. Any opinions?

[mhowe]

That's not a wall, it's the Swiss Alps.

 

If she wants to go to the destination wedding for her cousin (or for both of you to go), let her pay for it.

 

After you rationally told her everything and proved out the numbers, her response was "yap, yap, yap." She's not listening, because she doesn't want to hear. I know she doesn't know about the proposal and the ring, but there's no way you should be putting in a year overtime to afford a lifestyle you can't simply afford. And that you are showing restraint and she is not.....buddy, you are so not on the same page....you're not even in the same book.

 

Since you have already booked the trip and cannot get out of it....I would seriously think 2x about getting a ring until you two can come to some sort of agreement, and by that, she is willing to look at life realistically.

[Maverick44]

Are finances a dealbreaker for you?

 

I wouldn't anticipate her changing.

 

Maverick

[Koglin]

Thanks for your input. I agree with you, but just one small problem. If I tell her to pay for the two of us if she really wants us to go, she will say "no problem" and this will just add $3,5000 or more to "her" debt, but guess what, when we get married down the line "her" debt gets swiftly pushed to "our" debt and it's exactly what I'm trying to avoid. I'm really wanting her to come to similar conclusions on her own rather than me being the restrainer all the time. That's what frustrates me the most. I know I can let her pay for things or prevent things from happening but I don't want to have that task till the end of my days

[turnera]

Cut her off from your money. Period. She will only get better if you stop enabling her.

[Koglin]

Are finances a dealbreaker for you?

 

I wouldn't anticipate her changing.

 

Maverick

 

I didn't think they were until recently realizing how unpleasant it is sinking into debt. I think anyone in my situation would be alarmed but then again there are countless of people who make great money (double my income) and still end up with hundreds of thousands worth of debt and sleep well at night but it's NOT the lifestyle I want to introduce my future kids to.

[mhowe]

I didn't think they were until recently realizing how unpleasant it is sinking into debt. I think anyone in my situation would be alarmed but then again there are countless of people who make great money (double my income) and still end up with hundreds of thousands worth of debt and sleep well at night but it's NOT the lifestyle I want to introduce my future kids to.

 

Nor should you. And you and your potential mate need to agree on how to handle money within your relationship. You might ask yourself why your gf wants you to compromise your future for her present or presents!

[OptomisticGirl]

Is this woman nuts? Just asking.

 

I'm a very optimistic person (name says it all) but she is just ridiculous. It's like she has never had to grasp the concept of money in her entire life. This would be a major deal breaker for me if she couldn't grasp this simple concept of you are too much in debt and can't afford to keep this lifestyle because you want to pay your debts off. I'm more than sure if you told her you weren't going to buy her an e ring and get married til your debts were gone, she'd look at it differently....

 

LIke I said, for me this would be a deal breaker. No way would I marry someone like this. Ever.

[Koglin]

Nor should you. And you and your potential mate need to agree on how to handle money within your relationship. You might ask yourself why your gf wants you to compromise your future for her present or presents!

 

I get what you're saying but in fairness to her I don't want to put it to her the above mentioned way either. She is a great woman and deserves a nice engagement ring and a treat from time to time, as any woman does to feel special but what I'm trying to explain to her is that there is ways of still affording an anniversary gift and an engagement ring and still be able to have a family if decisions (such as telling her cousin that we can't afford a destination wedding) are agreed upon by both of us. It's almost as if she's emberassed to admit she can't afford something where as I'm certainly not. Also, instead of renting a luxury 30th floor, 1200 square foot condo with an unmatched view (which we never utilize anyway) for 1,700 + utilities monthly we can simply get a very nice clean smaller condo which will accommodate both of us for $1200 monthly. It's funny we got into the same argument when it was time to pick a place to lease for a year. I wanted to get a condo for 1400/month in the same building with one less bedrom (which we dont use anyway) and lower floor but she insisted that the 1700 one would be worth it. Was it? I really think not. We could have used the extra 300 monthly. It's those kind of decisions I'm talking about in general, I don't want to take anything away from her.

[happyfrank]

Take control of the situation. she sounds high maintenance. You make really good money that can support family. She needs to meet you half way and be fair with you and not go on that vacation to mexico or she can go by herself but ask to share expensives regarding room with family. When it comes to gifts buy gifts for family members but within reason and not go all out. When it comes to familes just give gift baskets for the whole family or just gifts for the kids thats what we do. Save anywhere you can. Buy 200 dollars worth of groceries and save on eating out for the next few weeks. sacrifices need to be made if she wants to marry you. All her debts become yours when you marry her. Good luck to you.

[mhowe]

Well then, you are in for a lifetime of frustration and debt. She's the one running the show, and you're the one paying for it.

[lavenderdove]

$30K is a huge amount of credit card debt to carry when she earns $40K. So obviously she is just not realistic with money and has no desire to be told 'no' to anything she wants to do or spend money on.

 

This will only get worse. Someone needs to be realistic in the family or you'll end eventually end up bankrupt. Her attitude is how people do that, spend now, worry about it later, go bankrupt and lose everything. They only stop spending when they are denied more credit and no one will lend them more money.

 

So she needs a crash course in money management. You need to sign up for a course in financial management and insist she go with you before you agree to marry. And you need to sit down and do a budget together, and set aside money for the different categories, and only spend what you have allocated for that category and no more. She needs to get off the 'buy now, pay later' mentality that has sent many a person to bankruptcy court.

 

And you need to be putting aside a set portion of every paycheck (5-10%) in savings for the event that you might lose your job (which most likely will happen at some point or another, it happens to everyone as layoffs are rampant these days). When you have 6 months to a year set aside, then you can think of spending other money on luxuries like trips around the globe on a whim.

 

You're going into a marriage with her already $30K in debt and her expecting to buy/do anything she pleases. She's not a child, and she shouldn't act like one, and you shouldn't treat her like one. If she can't agree to get on a budget based on what you earn and stick to it, then don't marry her or you'll be on a never ending treadmill having to work more and more overtime and constantly worrying about money or going under and constantly working yourself to debt with overtime so that she can frivolously spend money on her latest whim.

 

She needs to learn the principle of delayed gratification for 'optional' luxuries rather than expecting to get short term gratification spending for everything she wants, like a child screaming for a cookie before dinner. Don't give in to that, or your life will be hell for the next 50 years.

[turnera]

Sign both of you up for a Financial Peace University course. Many churches offer them; just Google it. It may open her eyes a bit, to go through that course and realize what debt will do to her down the road.

 

I will say that it sounds like she thinks she's found a cash cow (in you) and simply expects to go along for the free (to her) ride. But YOU can stop that.

[Maverick44]

OP-

 

I have a background in financial management. I'd say that you're right in what you're thinking and what others have posted here.

 

I'd also say that I can say the same thing to another individual but because it isn't a deal breaker, they would go on and be just fine.

 

I saw a poster indicating that you should put some limits in place. That's fine but to do it rapidly creates a situation filled with tension. To implement over time delays what you're hoping for. I had a similar issue occur with my son's mother. I manage my finances via Quicken and initially we agreed on limits, etc.. It didn't matter when she wanted to take / borrow more funds. She eventually felt I restricted her with finances and I was overbearing. Your gf may feel the same.

 

Looking backwards, if not for my son, I think I'd have approached the situation a bit more firm and had considered it as a firm deal breaker. My ex wasn't going to change and hasn't.

 

I don't anticipate that yours will either.

 

Best of luck,

 

Maverick

[capilot]

Girlfriends can be very expensive. Trips, gifts, fancy eating. Last girlfriend left me $30k in debt.

 

I suggest a) cancel the proposal and return the ring if you already bought it.

 

Make a rule for yourself: no engagement until you're 100% out of debt and living within your means. If she brings up the topic of marriage, then that's a good time to tell her you were planning to propose as soon as you were out of debt. If she really wants to get married, this will turn her around in a hurry.

 

If she really wants to go to Mexico, let her pay half. If she can't pay half, she can't afford to go.

[Koglin]

Girlfriends can be very expensive. Trips, gifts, fancy eating. Last girlfriend left me $30k in debt.

 

I suggest a) cancel the proposal and return the ring if you already bought it.

 

Make a rule for yourself: no engagement until you're 100% out of debt and living within your means. If she brings up the topic of marriage, then that's a good time to tell her you were planning to propose as soon as you were out of debt. If she really wants to get married, this will turn her around in a hurry.

 

If she really wants to go to Mexico, let her pay half. If she can't pay half, she can't afford to go.

 

Very good points. Thanks for the input. With regard to her paying half, she will have no problem doing it, heck she will even offer to pay for it all in full but it will all get put on her credit card. When the bill comes in she will pay off the credit card with her line of credit and then instead of having 30,000 debt she will now carry a 34,000 debt and then guess what, once we're married the debt becomes mutual. So in the end it really doesn't matter who pays, point I'm trying to make is not for her trying to pay or being able to pay but rather learning to set limits and find the value in things.

[Batya33]

Live within your means as far as a ring and a wedding reception and in 10 years if you are out of debt and can afford it upgrade the ring and have a 10 year anniversary bash. We are not in debt- far from it- but since we started our family a few months after getting married we decided on a family only wedding (meaning, 10 people) at a family home, with lunch afterwards. What a magical, beautiful day, all for about $1,500 including my clothing, license fees, lunch, wedding cake, etc. And we took a brief honeymoon locally. Also lovely. You'll be thankful for saving the $ when you have a newborn. Can get pretty darn expensive!

[FreedomRing]

I am doubtful this will get any better.

 

It really comes down to perceptions/perspectives. You two both perceive money and finances differently, and this is typically a learned behavior. Since you already live together, and she has witnessed how you manage your money, yet still rejects that approach, I'm not hopeful she is going to learn how to handle money, similar to you. To that end, I don't think going to a class or taking a financial course is going to help her learn it either. She doesn't want to.

 

Because you both share such vast outlooks on finances - I think you should REALLY reconsider a marriage with her. You don't need to have a ton of problems to know to end it with a partner. You really only need one dealbreaker....and these types of different approaches towards how money is handled is exactly why tthis is often a contributer to marriages ending.

 

I'd think twice, OP.

[turnera]

With regard to her paying half, she will have no problem doing it, heck she will even offer to pay for it all in full but it will all get put on her credit card.

Well, that's an easy fix. Tell her she has to pay half - WITHOUT USING A SINGLE CREDIT CARD.

[Koglin]

Well, that's an easy fix. Tell her she has to pay half - WITHOUT USING A SINGLE CREDIT CARD.

 

She can't with out putting it on credit. If I insist to this she will probably ask her mother to cover her portion of the cost since her mom is relatively well off. But again, I don't mean to stir up a storm or seem overwhelmingly controling. I just really need to find a way to peacefully try to change the situation. Any harsh requests like that will only result in either her tuning out or just resisting thinking that I'm trying to control her, when in reality I'm just trying to control the financial situation, which requires attention.. badly.

[turnera]

Then you shouldn't be doing it if you can't save up for it or pay cash for it.

 

That's called a consequence.

 

It sounds to me like this is more a matter of you being afraid to stand up to her.

[OptomisticGirl]

Then you shouldn't be doing it if you can't save up for it or pay cash for it.

 

That's called a consequence.

 

It sounds to me like this is more a matter of you being afraid to stand up to her.

 

I agree. This is your future financial means at stake. I'm sorry but if you marry this woman without her realizing how much of a crazy person she is being, I can see it ending in divorce and guess whose going to get stuck with all that to pay?

 

You.

 

You can't change the situation. She has to want to change how she handles money in order for anything to change. You trying to change her won't work. Just like you can't change a cheater. That person has to want to change in order for the problem to be fixed. She doesn't want to change. So your options are to continue into a marraige with someone who you don't agree with how she spends money or leave and be financially sound.

[nutbrownhare]

I felt slightly physically sick when reading your posts on here, OP!

 

There's no way in a million years that I'd get married to someone like this; you are clearly prudent without being mean, and anyone with a grasp of adult responsibilities would see this. She seems to think that all these luxuries are hers by right, and that somehow everyone else has a duty to maintain her - whether it's you, her mother or the credit card company. Even if she apparently 'pays' for things like the trip, it won't be her shelling out in the long run - it'll be you.

 

If you're someone who lives within your means and would rather have a relatively modest, but sustainable lifestyle, you really don't want to be with someone who operates in a financial bottomless pit. Don't even contemplate a wedding until you can reach agreement on this, or you'll find yourself dragged down into financial ruin. She is acting like a spoiled little girl. You'd do much better with someone who operates like an adult.

 

In the meantime, you need to stand really firm as to what you will and will not afford. If you can't afford a specific trip that she plans to go on - then don't go. She may choose to add the bill to her debts, but these won't become your debts until and unless you choose to take them on. By going along with all her irresponsible spending, against your better judgment, you are condoning her actions. Stop doing this.

 

Let her call you all the names in the world, stamp her foot, pout and throw her toys out of the pram. Just let her. But don't let her ruin your life!

[turnera]

I knew a man who married a woman from a pretty decent income family. Owned a jewelry store. He was poor. She expected a LOT. So he finished college, got his job, added a night job to pay for her stuff, wasn't enough. Added a weekend job. Wasn't enough. Started delivering pizzas. Not enough. Started delivering papers at 4 am. By the time he finally got fed up and divorced her 12 years later, he was working 20 hours a day, she spent every single dime he made, they had no savings, and were tens of thousands in debt for her credit cards. Their daugther turned out exactly like her.