I give up

[Tanzi]

That is exactly what I feel like doing .. giving up.

 

The relationship itself is lovely but my head and heart are still in constant conflict. I'm a 43 year old mother of 3 for goodness sake. What am I doing with a 28 year old? We have no future. How can there be? After almost 1.5 years together reality is finally sinking in. He doesn't want all that I am .... an ex-wife, a mother. All he can do is bide his time until he falls out of love with me.

 

I love him with every inch of my body and I know he feels the same. How on earth do I find the strength to end it? Or should I just accept the inevitable and wait for it to happen and enjoy what time we have left together.

[Seraphim]

Why do you feel there is no future?

[ForumGuy]

I have seen people with age gaps like this go for years and years. I know one couple with a greater age gap....like about 25 years, and they have been together for at least 20 years. You know more than I do about your situation, but I don't think you should give up just yet.

[Tanzi]

Victoria: I keep thinking of the age ratio in years to come. It seems to be working for now but I'm not so sure about later on. Also he finds family life daunting. He doesn't really want to commit any further into the relationship yet neither does he want it to end. I can understand that and I'm not in any hurry but where does that really leave us?

 

FG: Thankyou for sharing that story. Stories like that do help. I wish I didn't feel like this. I don't want to give up. I know he doesn't want to either but I feel like I'm always fighting against myself.

 

This wasn't meant to happen. I wasn't meant to fall in love with someone so much younger than me. I know my ramblings on this subject must be getting boring now but I need to vent. I don't know what to do.

[abitbroken]

Also he finds family life daunting.

 

Does he not want to father children of his own, or does he get overwhelmed or uninterested in your day to day family life? When you have children, "family" is a fact of life. If you want a husband some day to first be your partner and then also to be a stepfather to your children as an added bonus, and he is not into the family thing, it might not be a matter of waiting it out. There are young men out there who just adore children and like the idea of being a dad at some point and are family oriented, though they might not admit they are quite ready.. They may initially wonder about step fathering kids not old enough to be his own, but other than that, they are all for it. But if he is just interested in "dating" you and not in everything your life is, after 1 1/2 years it could be time to decide your lives and goals just don't match. I have found as I get older, I am less content to spend a few years "dating" and I am going to weed out anyone - even if we are not to the point of marriage yet - who just sees their life going in a different direction.

 

I have known two young men who married women a bit older. One married a woman 12 years his senior and it was a big gap at the time but not as they grow older. Most of her kids were too old to be his. They did have twins together (she was 40 when she got pregnant, he was 28. almost 29). It works because he was family oriented and wanted to meet someone as his future wife. They are still together after 15 years of marriage. The other was a 15 year gap, and they didn't work mainly because of the guy's maturity. He sat and played video games with the step son and after awhile the wife felt she had two kids instead of one. He really didnt mature a whole lot and she felt like his baby sitter. They divorced. They had a child together.

 

I understand that you are not in a hurry to marry, but after a year and a half, being in your early 40s, you know what you want in your life eventually and if he doesn't see that happening ever, then I can see why you wouldn't continue. It doesn't mean a proposal tomorrow but at least working towards the same goal, even if it doesn't come til year three.

 

I know you love eachother, but you have to decide if love is enough. Do you want a good relationship to stay where its at, or do you really crave a life partner to be by your side with your kids and you? The only way I can see this working for the long term is if he is okay with not having kids of his own fathering, or is willing to consider adoption if it is decided upon to have a kid together. And if you carry out your family life, and he sits on the sidelines as far as discipline and direction. Some people are happy with that, some are not.

 

I think it all depends on what you want. If you want to give him more time to figure out what he wants, that's fine, but eventually you will have to decide if he's a life partner or not. Sure, your kids will grow and move out someday and many people who marry after that might choose a different guy than they would have when the kids are young because the guy wouldn't help raise kids, but i don't really know

[Fudgie]

a-little-blue,

 

You have brought this concern up several times before. It's like you have this lingering doubt in your mind that just won't cease. I am almost certain that your bf has gotten wind of this.

 

Either two things will happen here: He'll meet your expectations, fall out of love, and break up with you...or (very likely) things will continue to go well but your doubts stay the same, he gets angry that you don't put faith in the relationship, and you break up.

 

You need to get these doubts sorted out. If you don't, your relationship WILL end as a result of them. I can promise this. When someone doesn't ahve faith in a relationship, it doesn't stand the test of time.

[Fudgie]

I also have to add that in age gap relationships, both parties MUST (I repeat) MUST be comfortable with the gap and ages involved.

 

It seems like he is doing just fine but you are not. You're struggling all the while with this, with crazy doubts, and "what ifs". It's clear that you're not comfortable with it.

 

I honestly don't think your gap is that bad. Older women DO date younger men. If he is mature and this is what he wants, then why not? He's 28, it's not like he's 18 and barely has a clue about the world. It's different here. My boyfriend and I were together for a few years (I left recently due to his depression, not age issues) and if I had these sorts of doubts, we never would have made it past the first few months. It's so important for you to get rid of them if you want to be with him.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

I remember your posts from when you were first contemplating this relationship...and nothing has really changed. When you went into this you were feeling lonely and vulnerable and still hurt over your ex...you couldn't figure out if you should or shouldn't pursue this...I remember your concerns about where this would really lead given the fact that you are both at very different stages of life. In the end you decided to go for it anyway because I suspect loneliness and the desire to be in a relationship won out over your concerns regarding this probably being a dead end relationship. Now 1.5 years later the concerns are still the same but there is still the same unwillingness to end this relationship.

 

He doesn't really want to commit any further into the relationship yet neither does he want it to end.

 

So he knows there is no future as well. Lots of men in their twenties don't want to settle down..then they hit their thirties and decide that they want a family..their own family. This is a for now situation and you both know it. When you both started this relationship there were no deep feelings...just mutual interest...of course over time feelings start to develop as well as the fear of not wanting to be alone again. Getting used to having someone to do things with, share life with and sleep with. These things are very hard to give up for the alternative of being alone. That is why many people stay in dead end relationships for years and years..and the longer they stay, the harder it becomes to get out. Is it really love that is keeping both of you together or is it the fear of being alone and having to start over? The longer you stay in this relationship, the harder it will be to end it. So picture yourself say 5 years from now, when he decides he has met someone with whom he wants to start a family...you are alone again, have invested that much more time and your heart, only to have the outcome be the same...in the meantime, in those 5 years you could have found someone who is at the same lifestage as you. Sure, there are no guarantees you would or that it would last, but at least you would have had the chance to find someone who shares a life experience more in keeping with your own. Your doubts are your gut feeling about this which you have been squashing from Day 1. Gut feelings generally don't like to go away...they always continue to gnaw at you when you ignore them.

[thejigsup]

I'd like a 28-year-old. The age gap wouldn't bother me. But I'm not looking for marriage or long term. Face it, you like him and your having fun. Just enjoy that!

[Tanzi]

Does he not want to father children of his own, or does he get overwhelmed or uninterested in your day to day family life?

 

When we first met he said he never saw himself having children of his own even though he loves children. He gets on extremely well with all 3 of my children, especially the younger one with whom he has an amazing bond with, and he is certainly interested in their lives. He isn't uninterested in our day-to-day family life but when it is in full-swing, especially when one of them is playing up, he doesn't always know what to do with himself. It doesn't help that they are all girls and the oldest two are teenagers. I don't expect him to get involved in disputes or discipline but nevertheless it can't be easy being on the outside looking in. I know he has said he feels helpless at times.

 

I understand that you are not in a hurry to marry, but after a year and a half, being in your early 40s, you know what you want in your life eventually and if he doesn't see that happening ever, then I can see why you wouldn't continue. It doesn't mean a proposal tomorrow but at least working towards the same goal, even if it doesn't come til year three.

 

I know you love eachother, but you have to decide if love is enough. Do you want a good relationship to stay where its at, or do you really crave a life partner to be by your side with your kids and you?

 

I think it all depends on what you want. If you want to give him more time to figure out what he wants, that's fine, but eventually you will have to decide if he's a life partner or not.

 

That is exactly it. It is very hard to get that point accross however. We spoke about marriage etc when we first got together ... not in any major way but it was nice to know that we both saw it as a possibility in the not too distant future. Its still not something I am ready for but it was nice to know that we were on the same page as each other ... I'm just not sure we are anymore. I think we are all too much for him yet he doesn't want to end the relationship. That leaves me to wonder where on earth this can go, unless he is prepared to wait a good few years that is. Our mentality is different I guess because he can move slower than me.

[Tanzi]

a-little-blue,

 

You have brought this concern up several times before. It's like you have this lingering doubt in your mind that just won't cease. I am almost certain that your bf has gotten wind of this.

 

He is aware of my concerns, yes. He had his own insecurities in the beginning too. However that isn't my only concern or rather things have moved on to a point where he has given me new cause for concern. He still talks about our future together but at the same time he has admitted that he can't "do the family life". After all our plans and hopes for the future that was quite a knock back. Its not that I can't understand that, afterall this can't be what he thought he was signing up for at 28, but it hardly sounds like there is a future does it? Despite that he said he couldn't walk away from someone he loved. Our relationship used to feel like it was heading somewhere now I just don't know.

 

This is the way I see it .... we both love each other and neither of us wants the relationship to end. However there is a hurdle in the way that is stopping the relationship moving any further forwards (albeit in the future) and whereas I want to know whether it is possible to ever get over this hurdle he wants to bury his head in the sand until HE becomes aware of what it is he really wants. He will either want to be a proper part of our family or he will walk away. The ball will forever be in his court and that makes me anxious.

[Tanzi]

ISo he knows there is no future as well.

 

He still talks about a future. He isnt going anywhere, he says. I think he wants us to have a future, he certainly used to, but taking on 3 children (the oldest being 16, the youngest 6) is not an easy task .. especially for someone who is only 28 .. so its kind of like stalemate!

 

...of course over time feelings start to develop as well as the fear of not wanting to be alone again. Getting used to having someone to do things with, share life with and sleep with. These things are very hard to give up for the alternative of being alone. That is why many people stay in dead end relationships for years and years..and the longer they stay, the harder it becomes to get out. Is it really love that is keeping both of you together or is it the fear of being alone and having to start over?

 

I don't fear being alone. I have never feared being alone. I love my own company and I love my own space which is why I can understand how he must feel. However that doesn't mean that I can't love or hurt or make mistakes. I may have missed adult company but I would never get involved with anyone for the sake of it or out of fear of being alone. See, the things is, I can understand why he would want his own space ... and as things stand he can have that for the foreseeable future. Is there a good enough reason to ever give that up?

 

So picture yourself say 5 years from now, when he decides he has met someone with whom he wants to start a family... ...in the meantime, in those 5 years you could have found someone who is at the same lifestage as you. Sure, there are no guarantees you would or that it would last, but at least you would have had the chance to find someone who shares a life experience more in keeping with your own.

 

This is something that bothers me. He has always said he didn't want children but he has time to change his mind. I don't think he understands that whilst I don't have an urgency as regards getting married or starting a family which is cool for him I, nevertheless, feel that I don't have as much time to waste as him.

 

We spoke over the weekend ... about a few things. He doesn't quite know why I worry. His theory: He loves me, I love him. He doesn't want to go anywhere. He loves spending time with me and the kids and he loves even more our time alone so why worry ... but he can say that can't he?

[abitbroken]

I think I would have another conversation with him. Tell him that you remember him mentioning that he doesn't "do" family life. Ask specifically, does that mean that he never wants to live in a household where there are children or teens, or does he just not feel he knows what to do or has the skills or know how or experience to live with kids. That will really hone in on what is going on if his words and actions seem contradictory. I like kids, but will admit when I was 25 and my cousin handed me her toddler, I was a fish out of water and held him so awkwardly and had no clue what to do with her. "she's not a puppy," I was reminded.

 

It may be that he needs to know what his role or boundaries are with the kids. He might feel awkward about weighing in on the situations being the mom's boyfriend who is maybe 10-12 years older then them,etc. So the best thing to do for him, he feels, is nothing. I wouldn'ttry to wedge him in where he doesn't want to be wedged, however.

 

I think if you find out whether he never sees himself living with kids versus he just doesn't know "what to do" with them will really be telling and help you make a decision. Those are two really, really different things.One can be taught or acquired and the other one just doesn't work.

[Tanzi]

Thank you for your response abitbroken. We have kind of touched on the subject. It was only recently he said he can't do the family life. I know what he means by that. He thinks my role in life as a mother is a difficult one. I am on my own with them and ultimately their main carer but because there is a 10 year age gap between my oldest and youngest daughters I'm not just a mother to teenage children or a mother to young children, I am mother to both. Their needs are different and they often clash. One particular busy day, when the girls had been pulling me in 3 different directions and having finally got my youngest into bed, I parked by bum on the sofa next to my boyfriend and almost immediate there was a "muuuum" . It was my 13 year old needing help with something. When that was sorted and she was setted and I had once again parked my bum on the sofa next to my boyfriend ... "muuuuuum" it was the turn of my 16 year old ... a friend needed a lift home, if I remember correctly. It did makes us laugh a little but nevertheless my boyfriend said "I don't know how you do it". He has said that on numerous occassions. As far as his role is concerned, although he doesn't always know what to do with himself if there is a family argument oing on, he has made it clear that he doesn't want to get involved with discipline, especially as regards the older two, and I am happy with that. These are teenage girls we are talking about and as much as he cares about them he has no idea how to care for them .. and shouldn't really have to. They are a scarey species!

 

I'm not complaining, I made the choice to have a 3rd baby and my ex-husband and I knew we would be starting from the beginning again ... but I didn't think I would be starting all over again on my own. I can see how the dynamics of my family are daunting to my bf, especially as he never even saw himself having children of is own. Its not just teenagers or toddlers ... its both and sometimes their demands seem never-ending.

 

What he would like is to remain in a relationship but to have his own space. That is what this ultimately boils down to. Understandable, given the circumstances. I'm not ready for any major commitment myself yet but it was nice having a clear indication of where we could be headed. Now all future hopes and plans are put on hold or pushed aside and I don't know if there is any significance to that. How long does one hang around for? I don't know. Or do I assume that these things are never likely to happen. He hasn't written me off. I gave him the opportunity to go and he said he can't walk away from someone he loves. Yet neither does he want to face the options.

[lavenderdove]

Actually, having 3 children with a 10 year age gap between them is completely normal and not unusual at all. People usually space their children between 2 and 4 years apart. So being pulled 'in different directions' is just normal. That is what parenthood is about, adapting to the needs of your children at whatever age.

 

And there are plenty of 28 year olds who have 2 or 3 children and do just fine with it and in fact love being parents.

 

So the real issue here is that he doesn't want to put the effort it takes into parenting. He is happy to 'visit' your house, but not be a real member of the family. And when your girls grow up, even if he's still around, then you will have grandchildren in and out of the house and will still have family responsibilities and even more people around in the mix as your girls marry and have kids of their own.

 

It's not a question that he 'didn't know how to do it', it that he doesn't WANT to do it. He doesn't want the demands of parenting, he doesn't want to get involved other than for little snippets of time for the fun parts of kids.

 

I'm a little concerned because it appears his ideas about children and parenting are affecting your attitude towards your daughters a bit, that they are a 'scarey' species, that somehow having them spread 10 years apart means it is more difficult than usual, that children are 'daunting' and demands 'never ending' etc. Don't pick up his negative attitude towards your kids just because he doesn't want them! Yes, kids are challenging, but so are climbing mountains, getting an education, anything else worth having in life. He's casting a negative pall on you and your family life because it is something he isn't interested in.

 

I fell in love with a man who had kids at a wide range of ages, and i LOVED those kids and was excited to see them. I got a kick out of watching the foibles of the teen years, and adored the cute 3 year old etc. The real issue here is that he may love you, but he doesn't like kids or raising them. You're a package deal, and his attitude is showing he doesn't want the package.

 

And the truth is, wouldn't it be lovely for ALL parents if they could drop in and out of family life anytime they chose! He wants to have his cake and eat it too. He's saying he enjoys you enough to see you on his terms, but NOT enough to truly participate in helping you raise your children because that isn't as fun as he'd like it to be. Don't make excuses for him! Accept that he's willing to take what he wants and leave the rest, and leave you on your own when it doesn't suit his purposes.

 

So what happens in 5 or so years when you're in your late 40s and really showing your age, and he's in his prime? He may decide then that he's not up for the vagaries of being with an aging menopausal woman. He's a cherry picker, taking what he likes and leaving the rest.

 

I think he has told you already where you're headed. In other words, he's willing to hang out for now as long as it is on his terms and he doesn't really have to join your family or help you parent. He hasn't written you off, but he's made it clear he's not signing on either. Why should he walk when he's getting everything he wants and there are no demands being made on him. This is working fine for him FOR NOW, but he's giving you no guarantees and has his freedom. And he's gotten you to buy the idea that your kids are somehow 'difficult' and hence it is OK for him to fade in and out of your life anytime he feels like it.

 

You need an equal partner and a MAN, not a boy who wants to drift in and out of your life when he's in the mood. Being a man isn't determined by age, but by his actions and expectations. I honestly think that a man who genuinely loved you as much as you need to be loved would love the challenge of helping to raise your kids rather than avoid it. He's basically saying, i don't do hard, and i don't do anything i don't find interesting even if that means i leave you on your own when you or your kids need me.

 

You're evaluating your own kids and family lifestyle too harshly, and cutting him WAY too much slack. You're a package deal with your kids, and if he doesn't want the family deal, then don't let him skim the cream off the top. Cream skimmers/cherry pickers will always betray you in the end when push comes to shove, whether that is when you need help raising kids, or not sticking around is something bad happens like you get breast cancer, or when you get too many wrinkles and start to look like his mother, or when he meets someone new who catches his interest and he decides she is more fun and less trouble than you are.

 

He just doesn't love you enough to sign up fully for both the good and the bad, the tough and the easy. And he may never love anybody enough if he's a cherry picker/cream skimmer who is selfish enough to want to take what he wants but not give back when he needs to.

 

I'd give it another 6 months til you get to the 2 year mark, but if he doesn't change his tune and commit to marrying you or living with you and fully participating in your life, then time to find someone who will and let him go. I frankly see it as very negative that he expects you to let him drift in and out and that he doesn't feel the desire to help with your family, and that his negative attitude towards having kids/parenting is coloring your own attitude towards your own parenting which is the most dangerous thing I see about this situation. A true partner would be supportive and help you be excited about your family rather than seeing them as a foreign species or something to be avoided/denigrated.

[Tanzi]

Thank you for you input lavenderdove. I really do appreciate it but I feel that perhaps I should explain a little more and correct the image I have portrayed of my bf. You have him so very, very wrong!

 

 

 

I do understand that the dynamics of my family life are normal, that being pulled in different directions is normal ... that is why I said I wasn't complaining ... that they were the choices that my ex-husband and I made, as many other couples do. However it isnt normal as regards the life my boyfriend was leading before he met me. His life has changed drastically and I guess it isn't they way he saw it panning out. He is coping with it in the best way he can because he wants our relationship to work ... but he seems to be thinking more for now than in the future ... but that wasn't always the case. I was trying to explain the situation from his point of view ... or what I have concluded it to be. I may not be right of course.

 

Yes he could be a father at 28, yet tat isn't something he saw for himself and he hasn't exactly been eased into parenthood ... he has been thrown into it. The problems my teenage girls have are generally with friends, boys and periods and I can understand why he would find it rather awkward to deal with.

 

The relationship he has with my youngest daughter is different however. He has told me (when we talking about the possibility of him wanting children in the future) that he didn't think he could love a child of our own anymore than he already loves my daughter. He has an amazing bond with her and he will get involved with discipining her to an extent.

 

I have to be honest here ... he has an amazing relationship with all of them but he tries to be more "friend" than carer with the older two. Nevertheless he has done more for them recenty than their own father has. He took control of the BBQ my daughter had for her 16th. He spent ages (not to mention lots of money) downloading all the music she wanted played at the BBQ. He has spent hours helping out with their homework. He has been to school plays when their own father couldn't make it. He has given them lifts to and from school, town and friends houses. He buys them silly, yet significant, little gifts every once in a while. He will do anything for them. He just doesn't like getting involved with telling them off. We spoke about it early on in the relationship. He doesn't feel it is his place and he certainly doesn't want to end up undermining me or my form of discipline. Whether that is right or wrong I really don't know but but I am happy with that and it works for us. Also he is always there for me with a hug and encouraging words.

 

 

 

my boyfriend has been nothing but a positive influence on my children. Life with their father wasn't easy and life on our own isn't easy. Yes he said that he finds it daunting but I am the one that finds it hard sometimes, I am the one that feels that their demands are never-ending and I am the one that feels down and negative at times. I am on my own with them, with little support from their father, and I find it damn difficult sometimes. I can't deny that, neither do I think that is unusual. Regardless of ages or age gaps I think any single parent (or even still-married parents) can find children demanding at times. For the most part I love being on my own with the girls and, even if I do say so myself ;-), I am proud of their achievements and proud that I have played a part in their choices and successes in becoming young women. As for the "scarey species" comment .... well it was just a flippant off-the-wall comment meant to lighten the mood. Perhaps I shouldn't have said it. Not once, not ever, has my boyfriend cast a negative pall on me or how I view my life with my children.

 

After everything that he has done for us I feel so very bad that I have cast him in that light! This has never been about his relationship with my children or how he views his role in their discipline. I can't see that he can do anymore. Nevertheless it IS daunting for him and he does feel the need for his own space ... now and for the foreseeable future. The point is, I can totally undersand that, I just don't know ether it means we have a real future.

 

We have all recenly returned from a family holiday ... my boyfriend and I, the girls and my parents. my parents accepted the age gap a long time ago and, after the holiday, they could nnot praise him enough. They are amazed at how good he was with the kids. my little one never left his side. He helped teach her how to swim, if the heat was too much he carried her, if she got fidgety in the evenings he would take her for a walk and when she was sick on a boat trip he used his own towel to mop it up with.

 

Almost from the beginning we have spent every weekend together, with and without the girls. He has never drfited in and out of our lives. He takes us anywhere and everywhere and BLOODYHELL, the more I am typing this the more I realise what I have in my boyfriend.

 

Lavenderdove, it may not have been your intention, but you have helped me to see what an amazing boyfriend I really have. Do I have the right, after everything he does, to grumble over him wanting his own space ... when I'm not even ready for anything else? So what if he isn't ready yet either. maybe he never will be, maybe he will. Hell, their dad wanted so much space he left!

 

Still, you have a made a valid point when you said:

 

 

 

He isn't a cherrypicker. I can say that wih all certainty ... but the age issue is nevertheless a concern of mine ... but that is all part and parcel of an AGR. I guess I have to decide whether or not to "put up and shut up" once and for all.

[mhowe]

My 2 cents: He doesn't want the whole family thing, which you understand. But he wants you, and enjoys your family. He sounds great, just overwhelmed. Maybe you could look at it this way --- your teen agers will be leaving in the next few years, leaving you with much less drama and only one child to focus on. So, back burner the topic for now --- let him have some space, and continue enjoying each others company. It sounds like the age thing is more an issue for you than for him.

[Tanzi]

My 2 cents: He doesn't want the whole family thing, which you understand. But he wants you, and enjoys your family. He sounds great, just overwhelmed. Maybe you could look at it this way --- your teen agers will be leaving in the next few years, leaving you with much less drama and only one child to focus on. So, back burner the topic for now --- let him have some space, and continue enjoying each others company. It sounds like the age thing is more an issue for you than for him.

 

What you have said above is, I think, exactly how my bf sees it ... putting the topic on the back-burner, enjoying it for now and waiting until the older two have left home, lol, or at least until they are more independent. maybe I should do the same too. He definitely enjoys the family but, yes, as a package we can be overwhelming too. Afterall, it wasn't what he signed up for but it is what he has got nonetheless.

[mhowe]

If you find it overwhelming and you signed up for it, imagine how he feels. Seriously, I think you need to just take a step back and relax a bit -- -there is no need for a make/break decision at this point. Enjoy!!!!