Beating the dead horse: Emotional People...

[John Cage]

I started similar topics before but the dead horse deserves another beating

 

Ok, so this is what happened... I noticed that a lot of people don't take things seriously. I mean people have different priorities and sometimes these priorities really confuses me.

 

To me, things like "watch both sides when you cross the street EVEN in a One Way" is important; similarly, "Locking your doors when you go out to walk your dog" is also important; also, things like, "Analyze the pros and cons of two or more choices BEFORE making a choice" is my default frame of mind. I recently got exposed to a girl (my gf) who is far too different from me or anyone I know. I went to High School in Bronx H.S. of Science in NYC and I majored in Software Engineering in University. I program games for myself on weekends sometimes and I could do that for days straight without ever getting bored. People I know are kind of like that too. I don't mean the "nerdy" aspect of it, I mean that people I know are LOGICAL like me. All my friends took to Texas Hold'em naturally because it's a logical game, all my friends can figure the most efficient way to play a competitive game like WoW or Starcraft. Even most of the girls that I dated are firmly on the logical side of the spectrum. So now I am dating a girl (a serious gf who I just moved in with) who is sooooo different than what I am used to. It just really bothers me to see her make bad decisions over and over.

 

Sometimes she would leave things to the last minute because she's too stressed to deal with it (illogical, because we will only get MORE stressed if we failed to do the deed, so by giving in to the stress, you are creating more stress in the future). Similarly, sometimes she would do things impulsively because it makes her feel better instead of thinking about the pros and cons first. She would adopt a dog 1 week before we are supposed to move to a dog-friendly apartment... 7 days. She couldn't wait 7 days... She rather risk having the dog taken away by the SPCA (because the dog is in a small, no-dogs apartment) than wait 7 days til we move into a much bigger place. It's all because she's feeling motherly and really "needed" the dog, whatever that means. She would setup a dentist appointment a few days BEFORE our dental health plan is setup (thank god I stepped in and managed to activate the health plan in time). I just really don't understand why she does things this way... Just today, she forgot to lock the door after coming home from the grocery store. I just told her that "you forgot to lock the door" and she said "so what?". To her, locking the door is optional and it's just an action. She doesn't see the result of home invasion, robbery, murder... etc... The simple action of locking your door can prevent serious crimes, why NOT do it. She gets very upset when she has to use her head to process things like this.

 

Could someone please tell me how these people live? I can't imagine going through life blindfolded and not analyzing and calculating my steps. There's nothing more important in life than life itself so why won't I pay attention?

 

---===---

 

Random Question: What are people thinking when they choose majors like Liberal Arts or Art History or Theology in university? Unless they are loaded and never need to work I really don't see a reason why they can't choose a relatively more "useful" major (when it comes to career building)? Please I just need to be enlightened, I really want to be able to understand how emotional people think...

[Capricorn3]

It just really bothers me to see her make bad decisions over and over.

 

There's nothing more important in life than life itself so why won't I pay attention?...

^^ in both cases, that's YOUR opinion. Not everything thinks the same way you do. Not everyone HAS TO think the same way you do. Not everyone SHOULD think the same way you do. Just because YOU think a certain way, doesn't automatically mean that others will have the same views you do. I get a strong impression that you seem to believe that YOUR WAY IS THE RIGHT AND ONLY WAY. Sorry, but that's not the case. Thankfully, everyone is different which makes the world such an interesting place.

 

Random Question: What are people thinking when they choose majors like Liberal Arts or Art History or Theology in university? Unless they are loaded and never need to work I really don't see a reason why they can't choose a relatively more "useful" major (when it comes to career building)? Please I just need to be enlightened, I really want to be able to understand how emotional people think

Has it ever occurred to you that they chose that major/career because they are interested in it and it's what they WANT to do? Why call them "emotional" just because they chose Liberal Arts or Art History or Theology?? A little insulting don't you think?

 

Once again, just because they don't choose a major or career which YOU think is a better way to go, doesn't mean they are wrong.

[Cheetarah]

John.

 

We meet again. *sigh*

 

It isn't how very emotionally-guided people think, it's that they're led by their emotions. They go by their feelings, can be reactive at times rather than sit back and say "Ok...This, that and this? Do this!". Rather "I feel like THIS is good..So I'm going to do it."

 

Just because you find your way effective, doesn't mean it's "THE" way. What did I tell you before? If she makes a poor decision because of how she decides to approach things, let her deal with the consequences. Stop swooping in on her business with your logical wonder and praising yourself afterwards for being such an amazingly rational being.

[DoGGYtREAts]

I like a Little Reckless in my life. Keeps things from getting stale. This is not to say I make a habbit of continuious careless behavior.. But Im not one for excessive Planning or Managing details. I used to drive my sister crazy. (both of our parents were loosers and we were raised more or less by our oldest sister). She was much like you and liked to think things thru... She belived in "a place for everything and everything in it's place". Where as I and my other sister thru any sense of order our the window... Heck why does it matter is we leave the bread and peanut butter on the table? They dont need to be refrigerated whats the diference between there and the pantry? If you need use of the table the MOVE IT!? We dont care.

 

Any way, What im getting at in a long round-about way is, you two seem to represent to opposite extremems. You (from the impression i get) Like to plan and organize everything. She just wanders through life with no plan and takes life as it comes... Neither is a perfect system. IMHO we should all strive for a balance. Some things are important.. other are not. Just chill and go with it when it's not a serious matter.

 

As to yur "random" question, those areas are far from irellevent. They may not lead to the most High end jobs, but there are certainly things in those fields, Such as professors of history

[John Cage]

^^ in both cases, that's YOUR opinion. Not everything thinks the same way you do. Not everyone HAS TO think the same way you do. Not everyone SHOULD think the same way you do. Just because YOU think a certain way, doesn't automatically mean that others will have the same views you do. I get a strong impression that you seem to believe that YOUR WAY IS THE RIGHT AND ONLY WAY. Sorry, but that's not the case. Thankfully, everyone is different which makes the world such an interesting place.

 

Well, what is right or correct? Is... "Fruit" correct? What about "4", is that right?

 

Now, what if I asked you "What is an apple?" and "What's 2+2 ?" Now the random words and numbers seems "correct".

 

The point is. We cannot argue what is correct or right unless we establish the GOAL. So, let me back it up a bit. Unless her goal in life is to randomly get hit by a car when crossing the street, then she SHOULD look both way before crossing. If her goal in life is to lead a happy, stress free life, then she NEED to learn to deal with stuff when the time is appropriate.

 

Similarly, if someone's goal in life is to "Go to school for 4 years and then take up a job in McD's" then they would do well with a "useful" major instead of a "fun" major.

 

It's not that you can't find a job in Art History or Theology; it's rather that you can find much "better" jobs in other fields. "Better" in this case can vary depending on your goal. If your goal in life is to learn about the history of art above all else (you don't mind living in a small ghetto apartment and eat McD's all day), then your choice of Art History would be correct. However, I suspect that most people who choose Art History as a major DID NOT foresee (or rather, didn't bother to) the outcome. After all, how many Art History professors do we need in a city? Compared to the hundreds of Art History Grads every year?

 

A lot of people simply make short-sighted choices in their lives and then later on wonder HOW they get to live on a sidewalk as opposed to the Penthouse. I bet if God showed up in front of her and ask her "Do you want to be rich or poor (but know a lot about art)?" She would choose the former. The difference between she and I is that when I see a road, I don't just see the road, I see the destination and I think about whether or not I want to arrive there BEFORE I embark on my journey.

 

Her friends are kind of like her too. They have jobs like social workers and cooks and they blame life for being unfair to them; instead of blaming themselves for the choices they made earlier in life.

 

--- Mintiya

 

We do meet again

 

In my defense, I am able to understand her a little bit better but sometimes it's not enough and I still need help figuring it out. The problem is that if I just let her fail, she will come back to me at the VERY END to seek help / or she will just cry and tell me that I don't care cause I don't help her. I would much rather prevent her problems OR solve her problems when they are still small. Obviously, it's much better to tell her to "Remember to lock the doors" than to tell her "I told you so." after we are tied up during a home invasion. What I would like to know is that... Is there a key word or something I can say or direct her mind to that will change the way she thinks/acts? Can this emotion-driven mode of thinking be corrected? How would I get through to her? What will get the attention of an emotion-driven person?

[Capricorn3]

Oh dear, lol. I think this is going to be one of those threads where you'll keep missing the point (I suspect on purpose), so I think it best to step out now as I can see it going round in circles. Maybe some other member will have better luck getting the message through.

[John Cage]

Oh dear, lol. I think this is going to be one of those threads where you'll keep missing the point (I suspect on purpose), so I think it best to step out now as I can see it going round in circles. Maybe some other member will have better luck getting the message through.

 

Huh? Your point was that "There's no such thing as a correct choice, only opinions". My second post stated that "Yes, there are correct choices as opposed to incorrect choices due to the exists of pre-established goals." Am I missing something here?

[thejigsup]

I like your style, John. I am extremely pragmatic and have been told by many men that I think like a man. I have emotions, of course, most carbon-based life forms do. But, I am not controlled by my emotions, I rely mostly on logic to solve my problems. I am a funny, kind, outgoing person, who has had the same friends for over thirty years. I just don't do the hug, kiss, emote thing with anyone. I'm just an honest, trustworthy, and loyal friend. In my circle, that is enough.

[Java731]

I think some people like to live life blindfolded because it's LIFE.

Because you analyze and calculate every step of the way, has life turned out exactly the way you planned? I don't think so.

Because from what I know, that's impossible.

Even if you do lock the doors, someone can still break in. It happens.

Even if you watch both sides when you cross one way, two way street, someone can rear you from behind. It happens! lol

 

The thing is, even though you may be careful and be cautious with life, and have sequential steps on planning how you want your life to turn out (in your case, graduating from highschool, majoring in software engineering in college, landing a job in programming), you never know what life can bring you. You may have an epiphany and become a social worker, for all i know... (oh, i wish!) Life is full of surprises =D

Just because your gf is carefree, and not always doing things according to your calculative mind, it doesn't mean her life will be doomed or miserable.

It means she is a far far different person from you. Thank God. (haha, jk.)

[Crazyaboutdogs]

People are different. I am the logical and careful type and get inwardly irritated when I have to deal with people like your gf....just like these kind of people get irritated with my logical, careful, cautious behaviour. It is a different style of living. That is why I don't think I could get into a relationship with someone like that. We would both be irritated with each other.

 

My point is that you need to accept that her way of doing this is different and you need to decide if this is something you can deal with long-term. Perhaps the two of you are mismatched.

[John Cage]

I like your style, John. I am extremely pragmatic and have been told by many men that I think like a man. I have emotions, of course, most carbon-based life forms do. But, I am not controlled by my emotions, I rely mostly on logic to solve my problems. I am a funny, kind, outgoing person, who has had the same friends for over thirty years. I just don't do the hug, kiss, emote thing with anyone. I'm just an honest, trustworthy, and loyal friend. In my circle, that is enough.

 

Yeah, logical people have emotions but we understand when to display it and when to make the hard decisions, that's the only difference. It's not like logical people are evil robots who kick puppies for fun. I know EXACTLY how stressful it is to go to school and work at the same time and I know EXACTLY how much I would rather go partying than studying or working (or handling other important matters). However after I logically analyze the outcome of each action (study vs party), I realize what I must do and something CHANGES. I would happily stay home and study knowing that the correct choice is made. So, strictly speaking. I do FEEL GOOD emotionally when I make a logical decision.

 

--- Java

 

Well, people always argue that even if you try hard, there's still a chance you could fail. That's a logical fallacy. A chance is only a word in English but it's a NUMBER in reality. What is my chance of success if I tried hard? If I went to med school, there's a good 90% chance I will end up being a doctor (barring dropouts) and then making a lot of money and satisfying my needs in life and ultimately lead a happy life; if I went to cooking school, there's a chance I can still be able to satisfy my wantons in life but the chances of that is significantly lower with a Cook/Chef's salary. Logical people don't see life in black and white... We literally see numbers and percentages, that's why we can make hard decisions so much easier than people who are emotion-driven.

 

For example, there are two cute puppies in the Pet Shop and I decided I want one... An emotion people will go play with them, maybe pick out the cute one or hug them a bit and ultimately if both puppies are cute it would be a hard decision. For me, I would analyze what I need from the puppy (affection, companionship) and what problems a puppy can bring (noise, time-consumption) and then I would analyze the breed information to find the puppy that can suit my needs while minimizing my problems. So obviously I would choose a small Terrier over a Husky if I lived in a small apartment and I don't have previous dog-owning experience (Husky are harder to train). So you see, instead of two seemingly close-call decision, logical people can make a clear-cut decision that has far more benefit. This is why I don't understand why Emotion-driven people are driven by emotion even AFTER knowing that they can benefit much from simply THINKING twice about the choices they make in life.

 

--- Crazyaboutdogs

 

Yeah. We are mismatched in this way. However, we are compatible in other ways and we adore each other (most of the time). I just want to understand her so I can make our lives better together.

[Cheetarah]

I just seriously wonder about the compatibility. You can have all the love there in the world but some things are rough to get past.

 

If she cries for help, then don't help. Harsh, I know. But if she is making irresponsible decisions, then it is so. See, the frustration is going to perpetuate this way - When you insist on coming in to fix or take control of the situation(the door situation is a bit different than the rest of this). You will be back here pulling your hair talking about logic vs. emotion. You know what, throw a sticky on the door "Please lock the door before you leave. Love you!" I would respond to that.

 

If you want to be able to sufficiently communicate with a very emotionally driven person, you have to get on their level. Remember how upset you got about her saying "Awww...but I love you" when you lost the poker game? That's because that is how SHE would want to be responded to, be responsive to. Pay attention to how she treats you. That couldn't clue you in more. And then put your own special John Cage spin on it.

[Mellie]

JC, did you ever see the film "Along Came Polly"? Just because you're different doesn't necessarily render you incompatible (though it is just a cheesy romcom, I admit it).

 

Don't think that your way is always the right way though. If there weren't emotional people in the world, sure all our trains would run on time, but where would all our art, music and literature come from?

[Rosee]

I think a problem is that you seem to think your way is 'better' rather than just seeing it as different.

All personality traits have positive and negative aspects.. someone who is very 'logical' could be cold, uptight, fastidious, rigid and controlling for example..not saying that is you, but it seems like you want to fix her or something.

[John Cage]

Yeah, sadly, I am not 100% robot neither

 

If I was, I would be able to use the most efficient way to communicate with her every time. The problem is that I also have emotions in the forms of frustration if I cannot understand someone's behavior. I usually tell myself, "Imagine if this was a challenge that requires a solution (make her agree), what methods would I employ" and that's usually how I manage to get her to understand (sometimes I manage to do just that).

 

And you are right, most of the time, the method I use at the time is just being really nice and understanding to her. She would then try to please me and try really hard to think in my direction. She really is a lovely sweet girl and I love her very much, I really want to be able to understand her so we will fight less because she gets really hurt when we fight (as opposed to me, I don't get emotionally involved in an argument, usually). I think sometimes she just want some time to process my suggestions instead of having to be FORCED to process them immediately. I am trained to find the most efficient route everytime I see a problem and I tend to force that on everyone else. I think that's probably the problem. I will slow down and make suggestions in a nice way and she will usually be a lot more responsive to the suggestions.

[Elisian]

Though your way of thinking has its place, in a relationship it would drive me up the wall. Yes calculative thinking has its place in efficiency but it has a negative side too (Read up on Heidegger, he's the authority on this subject). If your objectivity becomes totalizing then the world and everything in it will be nothing more than objects for you to manipulate. And without feeling to guide you, the atrocities you might commit in the name of the "bottom line" would be more terrible than we could imagine. Just look at the policies of Hitler, Stalin, Mao, to name a few. They were very successful at their goals, but the price was terrible, because to them people were nothing but disposable objects, pawns on a giant chess board. This is the result of the pure calculative thinking where the end justifies the means. You need feeling to create morals, to determine if an action is righteous as opposed to productive. Emotion has a place in guiding calculative thinking, and without it there could be no humanity.