Anxiety and Job Searching

[MissIndigo]

yeah, i had a conversation about this recently with a fellow PhD who is looking for work. he said 95,000 jobs are gone and aren't coming back. apparently, it costs $400,000 a year for a pharma company per biotech PhD (when you include their salary, lab materials, costs for conferences, etc....) It's a lot cheaper for them to back university labs ($400,000 can support a lab for a few years!!!) and then develop based on their findings. he thinks this will be the future. pharma supports academic labs, they generate the initial results, and then the pharmaceutical company develops the drugs from there.....

 

Yeah, there's a place here that helps displaced PhDs pair up with academic labs in order to advise them with their work--it's supposed to help the unemployed person get back into the workforce. I don't know how successful that's been but when you're not working you'll take anything that may result in a lead. At the very least it can keep you in the loop and keep skills up.

 

Have you seen a recent article in Nature about the budget cuts the NIH is facing soon? I understand it's on the order of $4B and a LOT of grad students and postdocs will be out of luck, especially postdocs. A professor in the article said something like "a lot of people are literally going to be left out on the street", so it is going to be very grim for academia later this year and next.

 

Happy to hear that you might have a possible place you can start! I hope that will work out!

[annie24]

I thought that the NIH was spared from the budget cuts?? oh now. i hope that things work out with my friend's lab. the topic of research is very interesting. It would be exciting and a bit scary to work for a brand new professor. I know a prof who recommends you go work only for famous professors when doing a post-doc. However, i think if they are too famous, you might get little attention from them as they would always be away, giving lectures, busy with other things, etc.....

[MissIndigo]

Ah yeah, you are right about the budget--the grants were indeed spared. It was a grim article that I saw previously though--think it was from March. I knew several profs who did lose their funding towards the end of 2010 and had to let a lot of people go due to the money scare.

 

As for working for famous profs, I've worked for two and wasn't particularly happy either way. These guys traveled a lot but otherwise were rather available when we needed them, but because they were famous didn't necessarily mean that their research ideas were good. ;-) True, working for someone well-known can help open doors more easily for you, and enhance and add to your network, but there's also the issue that there are so many people clamoring to get into those labs that if your work doesn't go well, they can always replace you easily.

 

I wouldn't worry too much about who you work for unless you have your heart set on going into academia or very high-profile industry. I tell people that if into your postdoc you have a sense that it's not going well, don't stay in for more than a year--you can move on to employment outside academia or take a post in another lab for a while. Everyone's experiences are different--you can have a crap experience working for a famous prof (and believe me, many people do!), or a totally stellar experience working for new faculty.

[annie24]

i've only met her in person once, but she seems like a very sweet, cool person. maybe a little ocd, but that's ok, lol, i think you expect people in our fields to have a few quirks. she's been getting excellent publications every year so i think she could be a 'rising star.' i'm certainly very interested in the types of work she does and it's very medically relevant. i'm not interested in staying in academia or doing something like that, so i don't feel the need to be in a super-famous lab. one of my friends is trying to get into a super-famous lab, the professor said he can join if he brings his own post-doc money. i don't think the prof is broke, just he can afford to say that!

[DN]

Hope it pans out for you.

[annie24]

Oh gosh, I had such a hard time sleeping last night. Anxiety. On one hand, thrilled at the prospect of getting this job with my acquaintance at the Ivy League university, on the other hand, being a bit sad because my goal was to work overseas. Well, I can still work overseas in the future and my spot with her has not been confirmed yet. I don't know if I believe that 'everything happens for a reason' but there would be a lot of good in working with her, staying in the US, and of course, in the future, I can always work in Europe if that is where life takes me. Then I woke up at 10 AM finally after tossing and turning most of the night. and I have so much to do today and am so behind!!!!!

[annie24]

I have a PhD as well and was looking for a job for about 10 months (with a temp job of 3 months in between). Then again, I have a PhD in the humanities, which complicates things even more.

 

Did you ever find something?

[ibu]

Did you ever find something?

 

Yeah, I'm working now, in the field of quality assurance of higher education.

[Batya33]

Oh gosh, I had such a hard time sleeping last night. Anxiety. On one hand, thrilled at the prospect of getting this job with my acquaintance at the Ivy League university, on the other hand, being a bit sad because my goal was to work overseas. Well, I can still work overseas in the future and my spot with her has not been confirmed yet. I don't know if I believe that 'everything happens for a reason' but there would be a lot of good in working with her, staying in the US, and of course, in the future, I can always work in Europe if that is where life takes me. Then I woke up at 10 AM finally after tossing and turning most of the night. and I have so much to do today and am so behind!!!!!

 

Well I'm glad there is a positive reason why you couldn't sleep!

[annie24]

glad to hear you found something ibu!!

 

i am definitely excited about the prospect of working with her. i hope everything works out. i haven't heard back from other places. still, i will polish my CV for next week's conference.

[annie24]

Well, I got back from the conference and it was an exciting trip. I ran into a professor I know from other conferences, she told me she's applied for funding, and if she gets it, she would like to offer me a spot. she'll know in june. I also heard about those 2 fellowships I've applied for. Basically, I heard from insiders that the funding is so bad right now, they don't know if they can even offer the fellowship to the finalists!!! wow. crazy. so, i made a lot of good contacts, will apply to some positions i heard of there, but still hope to get something with my acquaintance who is getting the job offer soon. fingers crossed!!!!!!

 

i went to a lot of the career development sessions. they had a lot of good advice, even though some of those jobs i wasn't interested in. basically to pay attention to the job description. they gave examples like they were interviewing someone to be a professor at a small teaching college, and they asked them, 'what courses would you like to teach?' and they had no idea. so, do your research! it was a good meeting overall. i got to have a lot of fun time as well, so that was good.

[Batya33]

So great to hear this!

[MissIndigo]

I'm hoping something works out for you very soon! Glad to hear you have some promising leads that may result in an offer somewhere.

 

I'm still looking...

[annie24]

It's crazy. I met so many people in my position who are having a hard time finding work. it's like, we've worked so hard to get this phd, we need more certifications???? sheesh. On my way from the airport, I sat next to a guy who works at the government facility where i applied a few months ago. 2 months later, the job was mysteriously cancelled. He told me that government agency got its funding slashed, that's why they cancelled the job. it's good i got to find out about these things. but it's so crazy. he told me that a few years ago, this agency was getting 2-3 applications per open spot, now it is like 160. !!!!!

[MissIndigo]

it's like, we've worked so hard to get this phd, we need more certifications???? sheesh.

 

Gah, I know. I was talking with a professional in my field this week and she talked about what the critical gaps were in the training programs I'd undertaken. So after all this time it means I still can't get in anywhere??? I feel I'm on the right track with the places I'm targeting, but that I don't have experience (didactic or practical) in something so critical does come up...oh never mind I've presented and published in what I DID do!!! I'm having some serious misgivings right now about some decisions I made when it came to what I studied, and the emotional fallout from it is hard. That's the worst part of my job search.

[annie24]

Here is my dilemma: I have applied all over the place and right now it is looking like I have two attractive options.

 

Professor #1 (I interviewed with him a few months ago), thinks he can get me some money now. He'd like to know how interested I am. He is very nice, does interesting work, and I think I could do a lot, quickly in his lab. Problem is I am concerned about the money in his lab, and I'm worried that it's not quite different enough from what I did my PhD in. He thinks I can get some publications very quickly.

 

Professor #2 is my acquaintance - the one I talked about before. She has talked about me working for her. But she is still negotiating her offer. At this point, I'm 97% sure she will get a position, and a good one at that. There is another university that is interested in hiring her, and she can use this to her advantage to get the best offer. I haven't asked her yet, "If you get the job, will you hire me?" Her work is very interesting and "hot" but there would be a steeper learning curve for me. And I would have to help her start the lab from the ground up.

 

Prof 1 and 2 are both (or will be) at excellent schools. I'm kind of nervous. I'm leaning towards #2, but I have never been to the location where she will likely be. Although, it is a major US city, and I do want to live in a city. #1 is at a city as well, just not as big.

 

I think I need to ask her the direct question, right? Because I don't want to be in a situation where I turn down #1 and she tells me, 'actually, i'm going to hire someone else....'

 

ahhh!

[Crazyaboutdogs]

Yes, you really do need to ask her if she is interested in taking you on. I will say, however, that it could still be a while before all is settled with her position. What exactly would be her time frame for starting. You need to figure out how long you can wait to start a new job. As for #1, you need to nail down the money issue as well by asking the direct question.

[annie24]

Yes, I will ask #2. I imagine it could take a few weeks for negotiations. Obviously, she cannot offer me the job if she doesn't have it herself, but I think it's highly likely that she will get it. But yeah, I should ask her directly, though she has often said, 'i hope you choose my lab.'

 

#1 doesn't have money unless he gets me on the training grant. Which is why he wants to know how serious I am so he can try to get me on that. I've told him there there is another prof and that I need more information.

 

I don't know. so much stress. #1 is a nice guy, I think that the research is interesting and he's been trying really hard to get me to join his lab. But I don't know if I am as interested in the material as #2. #1 - I like the methods and I would learn new stuff.

 

Location-wise, I am more interested in #2 than #1. Even though I've never been to the city #2 would likely wind up in.

 

I've asked them both about time frame. #2 would start in 6 months. #1 would want me ASAP, but would be willing to wait up to a year. I would rather have more of a break than less.

[penelope13]

Based on you not wanting an academic career in the long run, I think option #2 sounds more suitable for you: being the person to be setting up a lab for a new professor gives you a very strategic position long term. If you do your job right you will become a pivotal person and sort of 'part of the equipment'. Since the professor sounds like a rising star you have still the option to publish exciting work, although it may take some time to get there.

 

I would ask her directly if she intends to hire you regardless of which position she will take. It's true that currently there are many applicants to chose for any particular position, however professors also don't want to lose too much time with interviewing many candidates. Especially when setting up a new lab, having a personal relationship (however small) can be a huge advantage, since she will need someone fast in order to get going. During the set up phase you would have many opportunities to get to know her projects and make sure to demonstrate where your scientific strengths are. If you think you have lots to learn about her particular field you can use the time during the set up to learn more about her specialization.

[annie24]

Yeah, I think I would make a big part of #2's lab in helping her get it up and running. #1 is a new prof as well, but has been there about 4 years, so he's not THAT new - the lab is in place. For her, I think it would be starting from the ground up.

 

At the conference I went to last week, I went to a lot of talks in #2's area.

 

Should I ask #2 if she would take me over e-mail, or should I ask her over the phone (schedule a call?)

[penelope13]

Should I ask #2 if she would take me over e-mail, or should I ask her over the phone (schedule a call?)

 

Depends a bit on the relationship that you have with her and how you left off the last conversation.

[annie24]

I think I'll send her an e-mail asking the question (would she hire me if she gets the job) and when is a good time to talk by phone. I had some questions for her before, she told me to call her if I had further questions but to let her know when I would call.

[penelope13]

Before you email her take some time to be sure if you will accept her offer if she asks you (I think you said you are not certain about the location yet). Make sure that a decision to accept her offer will only depend on the conditions of the job offer itself and not depend on other factors (such as the size of the city, or the weather etc).

[MissIndigo]

I know you are very keen on prof #2, but I would say the same thing to her that you said to prof #1, that you may have another offer and while her lab is your first choice, could you possibly get a timeline for when you'd know if she would def have funds for you. And for how many years she could guarantee the funding.

 

And get everything in writing from both profs, if you can, before making a final decision.

[annie24]

Well- updates! Prof #1 is still interested, but I am not so much anymore. but, i don't want to turn him down until i have a concrete offer. Prof #2 has offers at 2 universities, so she is in negotiations. She told me she would hire me, yes.

 

Prof #3 (don't remember if I talked about her) would like to give me a job in her lab, but she was just denied funding. but she wants me to apply anyway to a training grant in her department for a few years support.

 

Now - Prof #4 - I applied to his lab several months ago, didn't hear anything, so i assumed he was not interested. he just contacted me this morning asking if i would come interview. yay! I said yes. interview is in 2 weeks. unlike the others, this is a military university, which i think would be a different experience. i look forward to seeing what it is like, pros and cons, etc....