Should men pay for women?

[Batya33]

When the situation was reversed - a man traveled by train to meet me and spent about $15-$20 (he didn't tell me that, I was able to roughly figure it out), I insisted on treating for lunch. I've done that many times in my "dating life" if someone spent $ to travel. If it was just gas money and relatively close by (less than an hour) I didn't but if there were lots of tolls or train tickets or time, then I did. I agree that this man acted like a jerk.

[Iakasot]

Hitler was a man of principle- he was still wrong!

 

Who wants to date a guy who is so bitter and twisted? No one.

 

And it's not sexist cos if a guy had made a bit effort and spent a lot of money on travel and he was here telling us his date hadn't even got any dinner in I think the responses would be the same!

 

$30 isn't a lot, and people would tell him to 'get over it'. Know how much money a typical guy (not me) spends buying girls drinks at bars when they go out? A lot more than that. While I agree that the lack of success from that demographic despite their monetary investments shouldn't be the sole basis for determining one's spending habits in dating, it is still enough to make a lot of guys exercise caution with spending on girls.

 

God forbid if a guy posted "I bought a plane ticket to visit her and I bought her dinner, why won't she have sex with me?". People would be OUTRAGED that he feel entitled to something like that. He would be told that maybe it's his attitude that he EXPECTS something like that. While we don't know how the OP behaved with the guy, but perhaps her attitude had something to do with how he treated the situation. She did admit that she's "used to it" (ie EXPECTS it) in regards to being paid for, so it's LIKELY she would expect it regardless of whether she bought the ticket to visit him or not.

 

In my opinion, laying a claim on how you want a man to use his money is offensive, it might be the minority opinion, but it's not unreasonable. I mean, I agree that if a guy spends A LOT to visit (like hundreds), the girl would probably get him some food. $30? A lot less probable. While it depends on the person, we're talking the majority of people here though, the ones who would say "If he's not willing to spend the money to visit me expecting nothing in return, he isn't worth it. NEXT". Is that not a reasonable conclusion? The guy isn't bitter and twisted, it's completely within reason to want a level playing field for once, and I feel that way myself from experience.

[BellaStranger]

^^ I don't see how you can say you are speaking of the majority when literally everyone here is saying one thing and you are saying another... that's a pretty weak majority! We are all saying that ANYONE who spent money to come and see us, would be treated by us in some way...male, female, date, relative... it's just common nicity!!

 

And equating the expectation of common manners to the expectation of sex is a slight over stretch!!

 

AND don't forget this isn't a first date situation... they are at a stage where she can half expect to be treated every now and again... if he never pays for women then she has been okay with the 50:50 situation thus far, so she obviously downy expect him to pay for everything!

 

I would ditch this guy because he doesn't meet what I value in a person... Who knows, maybe he'll find a girl who's happy to be a cheap date!!

[babybear]

I would just like to add that I have visited him twice and have invited him to visit me but he has not been able to due to his work. He works full-time so when he gets a day off he has invited me down at short-notice (the day before) and when I went home he dropped me off at the train station the next day and went straight off to work. Therefore he's never been able to visit me because he always has to work so much and early so he always just invites me down (well the 2 times). The first time he gave me a bacon sandwich to eat for dinner and cereal the next morning but the second he had nothing in. He also has not been burned in the past he just refuses to spend anything on girls. He has never bought any girl a drink in his life. I didn't tell him I EXPECT to be paid for. I just felt sad when he didn't but knew he wouldn't because of his principles. I just would have liked to have been treated because I was a guest. Had he come to mine I might have taken him to a show or something and I would have bought his tickets in advance as a surprise treat.

[Iakasot]

Because the majority of people have immediately attacked him, as opposed to answering her question of whether her being used to guys treating her and expecting it is sexist. It is.

 

If she can half expect to be treated every now and again, why can't he half expect for her to TREAT him to a visit? (treat = no expectation of anything in return) He's being compared to hitler, and I think that's a bit far.

 

The question is, if many other guys treated her, why can't she treat him to a situation where he doesn't have to worry about reimbursing her for her ticket? She's technically "up" from dating because of all the free meals/movies/drinks, is it unreasonable for him to not want to be "down" like most other men? Dating is expensive for men, remember

 

 

 

Yeah, if he has food in his fridge he has no problem sharing it, just the 2nd time he didn't have any. And I also think he would have no problem visiting you if he had time, because I wouldn't either. He seems very similar to me. It's good that he didn't get burned, at least he's smarter than me, so that's a plus. I really hope it works out.

[BellaStranger]

Get rid of him girl... this is a character flaw it's good to have discovered early on! Don't be here in 10 years talking about planning a wedding to a man that won't fork out for flowers, or tellig us you've had a baby and he gives you an allowance while you don't have your own money! Sad for you now I'm sure but I have a sense you can do better!

[Iakasot]

Get rid of him girl... this is a character flaw it's good to have discovered early on! Don't be here in 10 years talking about planning a wedding to a man that won't fork out for flowers, or tellig us you've had a baby and he gives you an allowance while you don't have your own money! Sad for you now I'm sure but I have a sense you can do better!

 

Wanting equality is not a character flaw, and buying flowers does not reduce divorce statistics. Spending money on a girl and on a family are two different things. I spend more money on my friends than on girls, whether it's gas, food, energy drinks or otherwise, because I know friendships have better longevity than relationships, and people are generally friendlier to someone who is more friendly.

[SarahRose]

Let me ask you this. Would you propose marriage to a man?

[babybear]

Let me ask you this. Would you propose marriage to a man?

 

No I would never.

[Iakasot]

^^ Is it reasonable to say that you don't want equality then, babybear?

[babybear]

I guess I'm just pretty traditional and have a romantic view of How i would like to be PROPOSED to. I think i need to be with a guy who shares this view. And there's nothing wrong with that.

[BellaStranger]

Pay no heed to men that use femanism as an excuse to treat women badly! You have a right to feel special... he should feel special enough that you made the journey to see him! I live in the uk too, so I know that a £20 journey is actually quite a distance and I know that with our excellent overground train system it probably takes you quite a while!

[Iakasot]

Pay no heed to men that use femanism as an excuse to treat women badly! You have a right to feel special... he should feel special enough that you made the journey to see him! I live in the uk too, so I know that a £20 journey is actually quite a distance and I know that with our excellent overground train system it probably takes you quite a while!

 

Not proposing to a girl because she won't propose to you, or not buying her dinner because she won't buy you dinner isn't treating her poorly. I agree, it's "poor" compared to being treated like a queen and having the ground you walk on worshiped, but it's not something that someone should feel entitled to. You can't say the guy treats you poorly if he doesn't propose to you, if you won't propose to him. You just can't, saying that is sexist, unless you say "I treat guys poorly by not proposing or buying them dinner" too. I shouldn't be listened to because I point out double standards and think there should be equality? She asked if it was sexist, I gave a reasonable answer that disagreed with answers like yours. I don't advocate women being treated poorly, I advocate equality and said that he should visit her next time to be fair.

 

Obviously OP's boyfriend wants equality too, so what I say is completely relevant to the discussion and should be listened to. I feel there are men who agree with me here but won't voice their opinion in fear of being labeled "bad character", or "making excuses", or "not a real man". I mean, I am afraid of my future girlfriends reading that I wrote this, because they'd probably judge me. Wouldn't you agree that reading it would arouse contempt within them towards me if they're the type of girl who would never propose first (which is a big majority)?

[LightbulbSun]

I agree with Iaka, it's actually pretty unfair to the guy that he has to pay every time. And I imagine that a lot of relationships would fail if this was the model that every relationship was modeled after.

 

If women want equality, that should apply to money issues, too. Split the bill, it won't kill you, and it might actually save your relationship.

[DN]

Over the years on I have been on here, I have been a strong advocate of women taking the responsibilities that go along with equality in the dating world and paying equally, asking men out and even proposing.

 

But you also have to take into account individual cases and you should not apply what should usually happen to every circumstance.

 

In my opinion, the OP's general view that men should pay is wrong. But in the case she mentioned that particular guy is wrong because she paid a considerable amount of money to travel to where he lives and that is something that he should have realised and paid for her evening. The immediate costs of the date were evened out. That sort of train fare is a lot different than a few litres of gas that people usually spend.

 

So, I am not in the least scared of stating my opinion about equality and have been heavily criticised for it in the past - but that's OK, it's my opinion and I will state it anyway. But I will also state my opinion when I think men in these situations are wrong and this particular guy was wrong - in my opinion.

[Imprecision]

Well, the basic solution is to acknowledge that men and women are inherently different. Neither is better, but each is different.

 

The general rule is that the man pays more than the woman, unless he is much poorer than the woman.

[BellaStranger]

I actually agree with DN completely... Which may be a first! Personally I always split bills half and half because I am very independent and self sufficient and HATE being paid for...it makes me feel 'in debt' to a guy and I may feel I have to see him again even if I don't want to! BUT situations do differ....

 

For example last night I went to see the guy I've been seeing where he lives and it cost me £8 on the train...he knows I am short of cash till I get paid (we were talking about something completely different when I mentioned this), so today he paid for the taxi into town AND for my lunch... I did not have to ask for this, he just did it and when I offered to pay he wouldn't let me...it made me feel all warm and fuzzy and cared for... and it did make me like him more...not because he spent money on me, but because he's sweet and perceptive enough to see that I spent the last of my money coming to see him, and he wanted us to have a nice lunch without me having to stress about money...I'm sure there will be a time I can treat him in return, but if there isn't, I'm sure he's not keeping tabs, which makes him all the more attractive!

 

The OP is in one of those different situations, expecting a man to pay for everything just because he is a man is wrong...expecting him to be able to recognise a different circumstance and act accordingly isn't!

[FathomFear]

Pay no heed to men that use femanism as an excuse to treat women badly! You have a right to feel special... he should feel special enough that you made the journey to see him!

 

This is the problem though. Women who hold this view tend to see themselves as "the prize", such that they think their very presence in the date needs to be "earned". You participating in the date is not worth any more than him participating in the date. To say that he should pay for the date just because you decided to show up is kind of ridiculous.

[DN]

This is the problem though. Women who hold this view tend to see themselves as "the prize", such that they think their very presence in the date needs to be "earned". You participating in the date is not worth any more than him participating in the date. To say that he should pay for the date just because you decided to show up is kind of ridiculous.

If there was little or no cost in the OP showing up you would have a point. Bu there was a cost and more than a busride ticket and that is the difference.

[BellaStranger]

This is the problem though. Women who hold this view tend to see themselves as "the prize", such that they think their very presence in the date needs to be "earned". You participating in the date is not worth any more than him participating in the date. To say that he should pay for the date just because you decided to show up is kind of ridiculous.

 

In the reverse, should he have travelled to see her I would say that she should feel special just because he made the effort to see her. It's not a gender issue, it's appreciating someone else giving their time and expense to be in your company- should that not make a person feel special, and you want to make them feel special in return?

 

Ps. I don't know where that smiley face at the top of this post came from!!

[Gilroy]

What I find most disconcerting in this thread is some of the angry and hateful responses. One post calls the guy as SOB. Another post indirectly compares him to Hitler. All this because that man expects the girl to pay for herself? wow!

 

Some one said that he is bitter and twisted. He might be but his principle is no more bitter and twisted than the hateful remarks here.

 

To the OP, I think you should let this man go. Clearly you guys are a mis-match.

[DN]

That could be because of the way he expresses himself and discounts her costs. It's fine to expect a woman to pay her share but this guy made her feel really bad because of his aggressive and sarcastic words and attitude.

[BellaStranger]

What I find most disconcerting in this thread is some of the angry and hateful responses. One post calls the guy as SOB. Another post indirectly compares him to Hitler. All this because that man expects the girl to pay for herself? wow!

 

Some one said that he is bitter and twisted. He might be but his principle is no more bitter and twisted than the hateful remarks here.

 

To the OP, I think you should let this man go. Clearly you guys are a mis-match.

 

Lol... I didn't actually compare him to Hitler... I was illustrating my point...which was that principles are not all they are cracked up to be when they are still essentially just bad manners!!

 

I could make it a matter of principle to never pay for the train cos it's over priced, or stand up on the bus for a pregnant woman cos I got there first or give the waiter a tip cos he's just doing his job...but all of these things are essentially rude no matter how you try to justify it...so is the OPs bf...principles or not!!

 

Sorry if my flippancy caused confusion, I was exaggerating to make my point... I sometimes forget these things don't translate great when written down lol