Past behavior indicative of future behavior

[rapunzel]

My ex used to include me in group email invitations to go to live music shows, often jazz as he's a jazz fanatic. The last one I received was a year ago. My bandmate used to think they were "fishing expeditions" to see if I would bite. Sometimes I would bite and I would be the only respondee so it would be the just the two of us. Anyway, I won't go into old news...

 

But flash forward to yesterday. He's been single for a couple of months now (after a brief 3-4 monther with a much younger woman) and I get another one of these invites, for a show that I would actually LOVE to go to tonight. Don't worry, I'm not going to bite. He writes "A must see show...will certainly sell out. I'm going to the early show, anyone wanna meet up?"

 

I know I'm just one of 14 people on his list, our entire band and then a few of his male friends thrown in. I am only one of two women on the list, the other woman is the other singer in our group and I know for a fact she cannot go (she has a steady Friday night gig elsewhere). I also know based on the past that often he never got anyone to join and he goes alone.

 

He must know there is a possibility I would respond with a "yes". Or else he just doesn't give it much thought nor cares if I would respond with a "yes" or not. Maybe he just assumes at this point I am not going to respond, period. Or he thinks enough time has passed that we can be "friends" and no big deal. He and I have not socialized together at ALL outside of just group conversations with the band at band events.

 

Anyway, I am not responding at all but it just seems odd. Why not just send it out to a select group of people and not include me? Yet he used to do this in the past and I used to scratch my head about it. Just goes to show how past behavior can be indicative of future behavior!

[IvantheAvg]

Its not an oversight, he's definitley looking to stay connected ot you on some level.

 

Shows are extraordinary experiences that causes people to drop their guard.

 

The fact that you can sit back, analyze it, and not "bite" and see clearly what is going on shows you've got some skills.

[rapunzel]

Well, he *is* connected to me on some level....he sees me at rehearsals and gigs anywhere from 1 to 4 times a month!

 

He has a "group" email list that includes all the addresses for the band members. He's a highly intelligent person so he clearly knows I'm on that list and I'm getting the invite. But sometimes people just don't think...

 

In the past he wanted to be 'friends' and I know he doesn't have that many close friends. My guess is he's a little lonely. Just a guess.

 

He has been friendlier to me lately, including me in personal type emails that involve the band and I have caught him staring and smiling at me a few times.

 

But his past behavior shows me that he's just going to continue this kind of stuff. If he wanted ME to go, he would have asked ME to go. The guy is 50 years old for crying out loud.

[IvantheAvg]

I see what your saying. Yea...if he was serious or serious BF material he'd step up and ask like a man for a proper date...instead he's kind of looking for a hook-up in a round about way with the mass email, not really a date.

[rapunzel]

If it were ME I would just call or email a friend, and if that friend didn't want to go, I'd call or email another friend. I would NEVER include an ex that I did not want to spend time or possibly feel awkward with in a mass email invite. And since he and I do not socialize nor talk outside of the group, there would be a potential for awkwardness. So here I am scratching my head...

 

I'm concluding that despite his intelligence, he isn't thinking much about the ramifications of including me on the list. He's just not thinking.

 

So here I go overanalyzing. He obviously still fascinates me. I'm obviously still single and obviously haven't fallen in love with anyone else. But the good news is I can smile about this today, which hasn't always been the case in the past.

[renaissancewoman101]

If you really like the show, I feel bad that this is "depriving" you of being able to go and see the show.

 

Can you ask a friend to go with you? That way if you see your ex there, it won't bother you as much.

[Batya33]

"He must know there is a possibility I would respond with a "yes". Or else he just doesn't give it much thought nor cares if I would respond with a "yes" or not. Maybe he just assumes at this point I am not going to respond, period. Or he thinks enough time has passed that we can be "friends" and no big deal. He and I have not socialized together at ALL outside of just group conversations with the band at band events.

 

Anyway, I am not responding at all but it just seems odd. Why not just send it out to a select group of people and not include me? Yet he used to do this in the past and I used to scratch my head about it. Just goes to show how past behavior can be indicative of future behavior! "

 

Read how many assumptions you make here, how many alternative analyses you make. So, who's to say he was typing in emails or used an old email with email addresses on it and kept you in there or your name auto-appeared when he typed the first letter. Who knows, who cares. Sounds like your past behavior (overanalyzing his invites) is also your present behavior, no? How about not making it your future behavior?

 

I would not respond or go. Not worth it particularly given your habit of analyzing how he reacts in your presence.

[uhohlala]

I'm concluding that despite his intelligence, he isn't thinking much about the ramifications of including me on the list. He's just not thinking.

 

This seems likely. You're probably right about him being lonely, and just kind of reaching out mindlessly to see who he can get to do something with him. Including you. But probably not especially you. Ya know?

 

An ex of mine is doing this right now. Lonely and confused about what he wants. If you're at all vulnerable (as you definitely are) you should keep your distance. People have to figure out what they want and why for themselves. When a person like that knows that you, a party who has (or had) a vested interest in their choices, are waiting in the wings .. or even just "available" on some level, they don't feel the need to sort things out. They can continue on in their mindless little ways. As long as there's something to push against they don't have to change -- so the last thing you want to do is be the thing they can push against.

[Speranza]

I didn't quite get the 'he used to do this in the past' bit - what, he used to email a group and NOT include you?

 

Why not go? You obviously want to on some level. Is this territory you have sworn to yourself never to revisit? You say you've been to some of these gigs so why not this one, one you really want to go to? You could even check with him if anyone else is going 'cos I'd rather it wasn't just two or three of us' - that should send the message you're after but not make it too obvious in case it's not even entered his head..?

[rapunzel]

If you really like the show, I feel bad that this is "depriving" you of being able to go and see the show.

 

Can you ask a friend to go with you? That way if you see your ex there, it won't bother you as much.

 

No, it's not that big a deal....no deprivation. I didn't know about it till he sent the email, it's just a really amazing jazz group that is playing.

 

The thought did cross my mind that I could ask a guy I'm interested in to go...and see the ex there....he's alone...and I'm on a date. Hmmm.....nah.

[rapunzel]

Read how many assumptions you make here, how many alternative analyses you make. So, who's to say he was typing in emails or used an old email with email addresses on it and kept you in there or your name auto-appeared when he typed the first letter. Who knows, who cares. Sounds like your past behavior (overanalyzing his invites) is also your present behavior, no? How about not making it your future behavior?

 

I would not respond or go. Not worth it particularly given your habit of analyzing how he reacts in your presence.

 

I agree, who knows. I just amazes me how he doesn't think. If I responded and no one else did, then it could make for an awkward situation. That's why I don't understand him. And true, it is a waste of my time to analyze his behavior but my job is boring and it's more fun to post here. Oh, and I'm not going or responding.

[rapunzel]

Exactly. I certainly don't want him to think I'm waiting in the wings. I know he won't value me until I'm completely out of his life. Then, of course, I won't care about him anymore.

[CatsMeeoow]

Well stay strong and don't respond!!! AND - try your best to put the whole thing out of your head. I'm afraid you might use this email to launch into a whole thing about what you did wrong in the past and how it could have worked and then just be losing all the ground you've gained lately.

 

A good response when you get an email like that... is when you shrug your shoulders and you go 'whatever'... then you know you're free! You'll get there but you aren't there yet so best to try to completely erase this whole thing from your memory!

 

 

[rapunzel]

I didn't quite get the 'he used to do this in the past' bit - what, he used to email a group and NOT include you?

 

Why not go? You obviously want to on some level. Is this territory you have sworn to yourself never to revisit? You say you've been to some of these gigs so why not this one, one you really want to go to? You could even check with him if anyone else is going 'cos I'd rather it wasn't just two or three of us' - that should send the message you're after but not make it too obvious in case it's not even entered his head..?

 

No, he DID include me in group emails so he's doing what he used to do after he broke up with me. After the first time, I took him up on a couple of the group outings but after the second time, I did not. I ignored a lot of them. Each time I accepted I was the only one who went. This is the first time he's done this in a while.

 

So no, I'm not going to go. Not worth it unless I knew for a fact that several band members were going and I know that won't be the case. In fact, my prediction is he ends up going alone.

[rapunzel]

Well stay strong and don't respond!!! AND - try your best to put the whole thing out of your head. I'm afraid you might use this email to launch into a whole thing about what you did wrong in the past and how it could have worked and then just be losing all the ground you've gained lately.

 

A good response when you get an email like that... is when you shrug your shoulders and you go 'whatever'... then you know you're free! You'll get there but you aren't there yet so best to try to completely erase this whole thing from your memory!

 

 

 

Thanks Cats, I have absolutely no desire nor temptation to respond so no worries there. He has been flirting a bit lately but I know that's just who he is. I can't erase him from my memory as I see him all the time. Oh well.

[Batya33]

I agree, who knows. I just amazes me how he doesn't think. If I responded and no one else did, then it could make for an awkward situation. That's why I don't understand him. And true, it is a waste of my time to analyze his behavior but my job is boring and it's more fun to post here. Oh, and I'm not going or responding.

 

Lol - that's a great reason ;-). I think it's easy to project onto someone you're interested in or recently were interested in a similar level of focus or thought about or on you. Glad you're not going or responding.

[rapunzel]

Included me in another one of these group email invites to a jazz show tonight. Truth be told, I would love to go but I know I can't. It would be too weird unless I knew a couple other people from our group were going.

 

The last time he did this I don't know if anyone responded...

 

I don't why but I feel slightly badly for him and would like to be polite and respond but I'm one of 14 people on the list....so it seems like he'll take any warm body. I still don't get why he includes me, as he must know there is a chance I would respond. I'm not going to respond, don't worry. Go ahead and lash me with a wet noodle for even posting about it.

 

Guess the online dating thing isn't working out too well for him.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

I gather his latest 5 minute fling is over? Just remember that it is not likely this guy will ever settle down.

[Live-N-Learn]

Stay strong, he's not worth it.

[rapunzel]

I ended up going out to another place where some friends were playing and had a really great time!

 

CAD, his last "thing" ended in February....after 4 months....and you are probably right. But don't people start to worry about getting old alone after 50? I would think so...but it doesn't matter as I have no control over how he decides to live his life.

[Batya33]

I ended up going out to another place where some friends were playing and had a really great time!

 

CAD, his last "thing" ended in February....after 4 months....and you are probably right. But don't people start to worry about getting old alone after 50? I would think so...but it doesn't matter as I have no control over how he decides to live his life.

 

I think that is true more of women than men because fair or not men in their 50s have a far easier time meeting women than the reverse. That's what I've seen.

 

A few friends of mine have raved about Gottlieb's book about marrying mr. good enough - and a few hated it- but it might be interesting for you to take a look at it to see if you're getting in your own way a bit.

[rapunzel]

Agree with that, especially for good looking, fit men in their 50's (like the guy I'm talking about...)

 

I read excerpts of that book, heard the interview on NPR. I think she was aiming for a younger audience still in their child bearing years...but I don't know for sure without reading the entire book. She definitely made some quite valid points. For me, child bearing is out of the question, and while I would like to have a partner, I have to feel "attracted" in order for that to happen. I dated a guy who was interested in me several times in the last couple of months and I still did not want to kiss him at the end of the night. I was hoping those feelings would develop but alas, they did not. I'd rather be alone than be with someone I was not physically attracted to.

[Batya33]

Agree with that, especially for good looking, fit men in their 50's (like the guy I'm talking about...)

 

I read excerpts of that book, heard the interview on NPR. I think she was aiming for a younger audience still in their child bearing years...but I don't know for sure without reading the entire book. She definitely made some quite valid points. For me, child bearing is out of the question, and while I would like to have a partner, I have to feel "attracted" in order for that to happen. I dated a guy who was interested in me several times in the last couple of months and I still did not want to kiss him at the end of the night. I was hoping those feelings would develop but alas, they did not. I'd rather be alone than be with someone I was not physically attracted to.

 

From what I understand and have read she in no way supports anyone being in a relationship without physical attraction but my understanding is that she would probably support giving a spark a chance to develop.

 

I agree that physical attraction can't be forced but if the mindset is (even not consciously) that if the spark isn't there from the get go it never will be that can be self-sabotaging.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

I would hate for someone to see me as Ms Good Enough. When you marry someone who is "good enough" that is basically another term for "settling"...in other words, "I would rather settle for mediocrity than be alone". I would not marry someone who is simply "good enough" because I would rather be alone than settle.

[Batya33]

I would hate for someone to see me as Ms Good Enough. When you marry someone who is "good enough" that is basically another term for "settling"...in other words, "I would rather settle for mediocrity than be alone". I would not marry someone who is simply "good enough" because I would rather be alone than settle.

 

It's all in how you define it. I haven't read the book as mentioned but I don't think she equates "good enough" with "settle" the way she describes it.

 

I do think there are many people who have unrealistic expectations of what a partner should be like, act like, etc and that this can get worse as one gets older, so for those people, it's about evaluating whether expectations are realistic, and if not, modifying those expectations in a way the intellectually and emotionally makes sense. Once it makes sense then of course it's not settling to marry someone who meets the modified expectations.