If you're incurably ill, hold onto the partner or send away?

[anggrace]

I think it's selfish to say you wouldn't allow a loved one to stay by your side. I would be exremely hurt if my partner insisted I go away and not be there for him. That would be incredibly painful. I would much rather adjust my life, no matter how hard, to be able to continue my relationship. Because as others have said, life doesn't have to end after such an illness.

[Mavh25]

I'm very very sorry for your story, Cantstop. Its heartwarming to know that people do take their vows seriously. I hope things get better for you.

[FarthestEdge]

I see what you're saying and I even understand it, but for myself, I can't agree. Whatever I had to do, I'd make sure he was away, and able to move on in life. And then I'd see to myself and hopefully getting better. I am not about to sit idly by and let someone watch me die by inches.

 

Other side of the coin then. Could you, would you, walk away from your partner when he couldn't take care of himself, knowing that not only could you take care of him, but juggle the rest of your life as well. Could you walk away if he said "go, leave me to die, there's no point in both of us suffering..."

 

I think it's your pride/vanity, not love that's talking here. No one WANTS to be dependant, and I am sure that holds especially true for you. But I suppose you could say that devotion is something one earns by being a loyal and supportive partner for years & years. So IMO, it's like saying that even though you pay into government pension for 40 years, when the time comes, you're not going to accept it, because you don't need government handouts....

[hexaemeron]

Other side of the coin then. Could you, would you, walk away from your partner when he couldn't take care of himself, knowing that not only could you take care of him, but juggle the rest of your life as well. Could you walk away if he said "go, leave me to die, there's no point in both of us suffering..."

 

I think it's your pride/vanity, not love that's talking here. No one WANTS to be dependant, and I am sure that holds especially true for you. But I suppose you could say that devotion is something one earns by being a loyal and supportive partner for years & years. So IMO, it's like saying that even though you pay into government pension for 40 years, when the time comes, you're not going to accept it, because you don't need government handouts....

 

I'm sure that has a lot to do with it, actually. In my whole life, I'm the only one in my family or amongst the people I've dated who hasn't "fallen down" and I'm the one who takes care of them and cleans up the messes. This is nothing new for me. But I also know how much I truly grew to resent all of it, endlessly, so I know I would never ask someone to do that for me. I would never, ever expect someone to stay with me through that. I know I can take care of myself no matter what, but with just about every other person in my life, the same cannot be said. So it's different.

[Lucius]

This question is in response to another thread. If you contracted or was diagnosed with an incurable, debilitating, chronic condition, where you knew you'd be 100% dependent on the other person for everything...

 

Would you feel justified in accepting that assistance, knowing that the entire nature of the relationship has now irrevocably shifted? Or, would you not want the other person to sacrifice so much for you and send them away to find someone who could be more equal in a relationship?

 

I certainly wouldn't 'send her away' out of some sense of guilt or misplaced nobility; knowing my partner, that would be about the worst insult I could give her. Fortunately for me, she is much like myself when it comes to matters like this. Knowing the other was sick, there is no way we could leave them alone. It wouldn't be a consideration. I'd no sooner leave my partner when she was incurably ill and dependent on me than I would leave my own beating heart on the floor of a department store. Based on past discussions (and past illnesses) I am certain that she feels every bit as strongly as I do about this - heck, probably more so.

 

It's no sacrifice, for me, to care for the one I love. It's a privilege I'd never give up. In my relationship that's a sentiment shared with the utmost conviction.

[DN]

Hex, I have to say that I am somewhat surprised by your take on this. I always thought of you as someone who believes that people should be responsible for their own decisions and that one should not impose your own ethics, morals and ideas upon them - and yet that is what you seem to be doing here.

[FarthestEdge]

I'm sure that has a lot to do with it, actually. In my whole life, I'm the only one in my family or amongst the people I've dated who hasn't "fallen down" and I'm the one who takes care of them and cleans up the messes. This is nothing new for me. But I also know how much I truly grew to resent all of it, endlessly, so I know I would never ask someone to do that for me. I would never, ever expect someone to stay with me through that. I know I can take care of myself no matter what, but with just about every other person in my life, the same cannot be said. So it's different.

 

Well, correct me if I am wrong, but in most (if not all) of those cases, the 'fallen' that you have looked after, made their own messes through bad choices, did they not? There's a distinct difference between an incurable illness and a person who self-inflicts upon themselves needlessly. Presumably, the person did not deliberately, willfully, knowingly inflict their illness on themselves...perhaps your bitterness is somewhat displaced.

 

I understand where you are coming from, but do you not think, especially since you have always been the one cleaning up the messes that one, or more of those people SHOULD, and should WANT TO step up, if you ever needed some support. Presumably, you did what you did, even though you resented it, because you loved these people. Would you want to deny them the opportunity to pay you back in kind?

[hexaemeron]

Hex, I have to say that I am somewhat surprised by your take on this. I always thought of you as someone who believes that people should be responsible for their own decisions and that one should not impose your own ethics, morals and ideas upon them - and yet that is what you seem to be doing here.

 

DN, I almost always am. Just not on this subject, apparently. Aspies are terrible multitaskers, generally speaking. I can focus on getting better, or I can focus on taking care of my partner about being my being sick. (Hypothetical, of course) And I cannot in good conscience compound the indignity of an incurable disease and its effects with feeling like I need to take care of him because I'm sick/dying.

[hexaemeron]

Well, correct me if I am wrong, but in most (if not all) of those cases, the 'fallen' that you have looked after, made their own messes through bad choices, did they not? There's a distinct difference between an incurable illness and a person who self-inflicts upon themselves needlessly. Presumably, the person did not deliberately, willfully, knowingly inflict their illness on themselves...perhaps your bitterness is somewhat displaced.

 

I understand where you are coming from, but do you not think, especially since you have always been the one cleaning up the messes that one, or more of those people SHOULD, and should WANT TO step up, if you ever needed some support. Presumably, you did what you did, even though you resented it, because you loved these people. Would you want to deny them the opportunity to pay you back in kind?

 

The root causes are different, sure. But the end result is the same. And as for wanting them to repay me... Yeah, I guess so, but they can do that by being happy and being functionally independent. To me, two wrongs don't make a right, and that's how I see that kind of... compensation.

 

I realize everyone's looking at my stances here like but I promise it makes perfect sense to me and I'm very much at peace with it.

[DN]

DN, I almost always am. Just not on this subject, apparently. Aspies are terrible multitaskers, generally speaking. I can focus on getting better, or I can focus on taking care of my partner about being my being sick. (Hypothetical, of course) And I cannot in good conscience compound the indignity of an incurable disease and its effects with feeling like I need to take care of him because I'm sick/dying.

Hmm, well I am sure you will understand and not takie it amiss if I say ... well, I am a mod so I will pm you

[ProtestTheHero]

I agree with Hex. Assuming I was with someone, I would tell them to go live a life where they don't have to be my nurse. Anyone spending hours a day taking care of me would:

 

A.) Make me feel ridiculously guilty for taking up so much of their time

B.) Make me depressed that the previous relationship dynamic would never return (two equals, not one provider/one dependent) -- the vows were better or worse, not my wife or my nurse

C.) My pride would take a massive hit, I'm no longer a provider in a substantial way, I'd feel like a leech.

 

I don't think there's a right answer. I imagine everyone to a certain degree feels differently about it, but if I can't provide you with good times then I'd rather be alone. If it's incurable, I'd probably self-medicate in some way to expedite the process. I have a boom or bust mentality -- 100% or not at all. This has actually come up in my extended family before...someone refused treatment so that the family wouldn't have to take care of them (tender age of 42) and passed away within the year.

[DN]

It is just as selfish to not allow someone to look after you or do things for you if they want to as it is to unreasonably demand that they do.

 

In either case - it's not just about you.

[Miss Firecracker]

If someone truly loves you, they will be glad to stay. If something serious happens to my husband, I would be there no matter what he said. There is no way on earth I would leave him alone to suffer.

[FarthestEdge]

The root causes are different, sure. But the end result is the same. And as for wanting them to repay me... Yeah, I guess so, but they can do that by being happy and being functionally independent. To me, two wrongs don't make a right, and that's how I see that kind of... compensation.

 

I realize everyone's looking at my stances here like but I promise it makes perfect sense to me and I'm very much at peace with it.

 

How is helping someone you love endure a difficult time a "wrong"?

 

I know you've had to pull yourself up by your own bootstraps & you've earned the right to say that you'll do what makes you happy, screw everyone else...but I think you are missing a fundamental part of the human condition when you see an act of love that includes, but is not limited to, a sacrifice of some sort as a 'wrong'. And yet, you simultaneously martyr yourself as the one who DID make those sacrifices...it confuses me.

 

I hope your view on the matter never needs to be tested, Hex...you deserve better than what you say you will sentence yourself to if it ever does.

 

Everything in life has a price, including love. But when it comes to paying the price for years of happiness & devotion, it is one most of us WANT to pay. I expect to earn the good things that come into my life, even if some of them are enjoyed through 'credit'...eventually, I will pay my 'credit' off...you know?

[hexaemeron]

I was trying to explain this to DN. The only people in my life who would be there (and yes, I know absolutely that they'd want to be there) are my parents and my partner.

 

My mom is a recovering oxycontin addict and she is only now starting to put her own life back together after years of dealing with my father and her own junkie behaviors. My dad is a recovering oxycontin addict and a current hopeless alcoholic, diabetic and hepatits sufferer, doing absolutely nothing to help himself get better and everything to hasten a painful, miserable demise. There is no way they could do anything for me I could not do for myself better, without threatening whatever precarious hold on life they currently possess.

 

And my partner... I don't know. I absolutely know he loves me, but I really don't think he could handle it. He hasn't been able to survive without my presence as long as I've known him. He's never been able to stand on his own, and as much as I know he'd want to be there, I don't think he could withstand it and he would probably crumble in grief when threatened with losing someone else. (He's lost a lot of people in his life this way.)

 

So... I'm really not being selfish as much as I am pragmatic. And that's not a bad thing, right?

[DN]

So... I'm really not being selfish as much as I am pragmatic. And that's not a bad thing, right?

Nice reasoning but - hmmm - not buying it.

[greywolf]

So... I'm really not being selfish as much as I am pragmatic. And that's not a bad thing, right?

 

I really do understand what you mean. It would seem the most practical thing to do in that situation. However, I still believe that people should have a choice about what they want to do. I want to treat my partner like an adult that can make his own choices, and it is their job to decide was is best for them. If I sent them away it'd be telling them that I know what's best for them better than they do, and IMO that's treating your partner like a child, not an adult that you respect.

[ProtestTheHero]

So... I'm really not being selfish as much as I am pragmatic. And that's not a bad thing, right?

 

That is the way I look at it. However, it doesn't bother me if I am labeled selfish anyways. I've learned that people have a hard time with this line of thinking. It's too cold, too calculating, too whatever...and maybe not enough "A Walk to Remember" for most people, but oh well.

 

I have a hard time reading phrases like "the human condition" and deriving any kind of positive connotation. I certainly have a lot to say about that, but it is most definitely OT.

 

I would tell people to leave regardless of what they wanted. Their judgment in that situation is clouded by the fact that I may or may not be a veg or near death or whatever and they don't want to deal with loss, but stuff happens. I would not be ok with becoming a ridiculous expense in terms of money and time. I don't think anyone's done anything to earn that. Once I can't take care of myself I don't want to be here anymore.

[tiredofvampires]

I agree with greywolf, that telling your partner what to do as it's in their "best interests" is really like treating them as a child.

 

I think it's important to separate the issues: are you telling them to leave because of your pride and vanity (read: ego hit), or are you doing it for THEM? Because if you are speaking for them, it's an incredibly patronizing, even condescending thing to do.

 

And if it's because of your ego, then what this tells me is that you are not really treating this union as a TEAM. How can two lives be really integral when you are not taking each other's wishes and desires on a fundamental level into consideration? I'm not impugning your whole relationship, but this attitude does indicate some sort of autonomous model you have in your mind that defies the symbiotic nature of committed relationships.

 

Reading more about your family history and the dynamics of your relationships, Hex, I can see more why you're coming from where you are. But it seems to me a reaction to the immensely negative connotations of having people who have PREYED in ways upon you that you feel the way you do.

 

I don't think a person has to prey on their partner just because they have a disability. And it would seem to me that everyone who has a disability, if they were to embrace your line of thinking, should stay single, celibate and alone, even if they have a lot of life left in them. By your calculations.

 

Also, I think as another poster said, a lot of people are making some pretty sweeping statements here, painting everything with a broad brush. In that, not all disabilities and incurable conditions are the same, and nor is "incurable" tantamount to "terminal." I have an incurable condition and it's disabling, but not terminal. As I said earlier in the thread, this is a primary reason I don't seek to date anyone now (it is possible for my illness to improve, as it is known to wax and wane), and if someone were to really be in love with me, I would have to let them know what they are up against. I would want the best for someone I like/love, and if I'm not the best they can do, then I should let them go. But that I would think is as much their judgment call as mine. It hurts me terribly to think that I have to "prep" someone in the event that they might want to leave me, or not even want to start down a road with me...but I've seen too many people who are disabled give the lives of their SO's great joy and meaning. I would like to believe that I add something valued/important enough to my SO's life if they chose me, that my having an incurable disorder which often makes life tough might be actually worth it for them, and I wouldn't just be preying upon them.

 

I was going to ask you, Hex, if you'd be there for your partner if he were to be stricken with an illness, and how you'd feel if he told you promptly to leave and let him go down or suffer on his own. But it sounds like given the person he is, and the patterns your life has followed, this hypothetical is moot, given he already relies heavily upon you, is the more dependent of the two of you, and you are in some ways his caregiver even though he's not even sick. I wonder if he drew a line in the sand and told you to leave...whether you'd be relieved for that chance, and be happy to honor his wishes.

 

You've also said he'd crumble to lose someone in his life, and I have to wonder: what about your ordering him to leave with a personal edict isn't you causing his world to crumble because he's lost someone who he will worry over every day, and miss horribly?

 

I'm with all the posters who have said that if my partner fell gravely ill, I'd be extremely hurt and GRIEVED that they would tell me to leave them when I want to be with them and keep loving them. I'd feel absolutely rejected, as much as for any other reason that they would no longer want me in their life. It's like, what do you take me for, a brittle reed? How dare you do my thinking and evaluating for me? I'd like to think that after all that time, he would not diminish the quality of my love, nor the strength that I have like that. If the shoe were on this foot.

 

This is in some ways a really personally disturbing thread for me due to the OP's premise, but also one that has shown up a tremendous amount of support for the values I believe in, and so just on a personal note, I'm touched reading what others have had to say along those lines.

[Puddincup]

Cantstoptruelove - Your story is so emotional. I'm sorry that happened to you and your husband. I just wanted to offer my support and sympathy. You are a good wife.