Can you forgive someone who isn't sorry?

[Seymore]

Upon my latest little setback (as well as before it) - I've wondered about forgiveness...specifically, how can you forgive someone if they aren't sorry? Say someone walks up and kicks you one, says they're sorry, then kicks you again, sorry, kick, sorry, kick...can you REALLY forgive that person?

 

Second, how do you go about forgiving? People say "Forgive yourself, forgive others...", well, I'm a Catholic, so you'd think I knew a thing or two about forgiveness, but I feel I haven't much of a clue. There have been people like my friend, who would show up late or not at all because he was high - he went to AA and one of his steps was asking for forgiveness. I accepted it and put it behind me, because he was taking ACTION to rectify the situation. That came natural. With my ex, I just never really felt she was sorry. She'd kick, apologize, kick, apologize. Not kick in the literal sense, but all the hurtful things she said and did, I eventually couldn't believe she was sorry.

 

So how do you go about forgiving someone like that?

 

I'm trying, with varying success, to just move on, and I'm looking to this avenue now. I'm so confused I still don't even know if I was the dumper or dumpee anymore (For those that don't know, it was a weird situation and while I always thought I left her, many others say it sounds more like she dumped me). I know it doesn't really even matter, but that's how confused I am.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

You don't have to forgive her...you just have to become indifferent to her and see her as not worthy of your forgiveness. I never bought into the whole "you have to forgive to move on" cliché.

[Elsewhere]

I have a similar problem - I've been kicked once but good and then never spoken to again. Time goes by and it still hurts...

 

I want to forgive to purify my own heart - not for any other reason. "Resentment is like taking poison and expecting other person to die."

 

I do not wish to talk to him ever again, but I want to get rid of thinking about him and hating him so much - I'm trying to do that by thinking of love that I should have for the whole world. I also imagine him begging for forgiveness and i just walk away. Helps a little.

[Seymore]

Thanks Crazyaboutdogs. It feels good to know that I'm on the right track regarding that, then. I never bought the "You have to forgive them in person" thing either.

[avman]

Forgiveness isn't for them. Forgiveness is really for you. When you forgive you let go of the pain and resentments that the other person caused by their actions. Whether they are sorry or not or whether they deserve it or not is really immaterial. When you forgive you give yourself permission to move on and not let their actions keep causing you pain.

 

When you forgive, it doesn't mean that you feel their actions are ok. And it doesn't mean you have to have them in your life. It just means you've decided to let go.

[Seymore]

I have a similar problem - I've been kicked once but good and then never spoken to again. Time goes by and it still hurts...

 

I want to forgive to purify my own heart - not for any other reason. "Resentment is like taking poison and expecting other person to die."

 

I do not wish to talk to him ever again, but I want to get rid of thinking about him and hating him so much - I'm trying to do that by thinking of love that I should have for the whole world. I also imagine him begging for forgiveness and i just walk away. Helps a little.

 

This is another thing I'm trying. I volunteered my talents to my church and I focus most of my other energy on running errands daily for my mother who is stuck home with a broken hip. It does help a little. Not totally, but just a little. How much time went by for you so far?

[doiiiieeezie]

You can forgive her, and I have this debate with someone all the time. You may not forget what she did, because from what I have read she was very passive aggressive and never showed true remorse. Whether she comes back and begs for it or not, you need to let it rest in your heart in order for it not to affect other relationships/friendships.

 

If you are not ready to yet, don't force it, it simply comes from within where if you see her again or her picture, you can smile and know that it was a part of your past. Many of the 12 step programs teach that you should make amends with someone by reaching out to them, such as your friend. Yet a lot of those people relapse back into their old behaviors. It's a slippery slope.

[Seymore]

Forgiveness isn't for them. Forgiveness is really for you. When you forgive you let go of the pain and resentments that the other person caused by their actions. Whether they are sorry or not or whether they deserve it or not is really immaterial. When you forgive you give yourself permission to move on and not let their actions keep causing you pain.

 

When you forgive, it doesn't mean that you feel their actions are ok. And it doesn't mean you have to have them in your life. It just means you've decided to let go.

 

Thanks, avman. I think the bolded part is the association I need to break. You know how you're brought up to say "it's ok" when someone says "I'm sorry"? I think I've got that association stuck in my head. I need to say to myself: "It's not ok. But it happened and there is nothing I can do to change that. All I can do is change that I don't allow it to happen to me again."

[Elsewhere]

This is another thing I'm trying. I volunteered my talents to my church and I focus most of my other energy on running errands daily for my mother who is stuck home with a broken hip. It does help a little. Not totally, but just a little. How much time went by for you so far?

 

Almost a year... 7 months of NC... I feel pathetic that it's taking so long. But he's switching girlfirends left and right and I can't get a boyfriend even though I managed to have 2 crushes... so that makes me hate him even more! and I realize he probably barely remembers what he's done...

[Seymore]

Almost a year... 7 months of NC... I feel pathetic that it's taking so long. But he's switching girlfirends left and right and I can't get a boyfriend even though I managed to have 2 crushes... so that makes me hate him even more! and I realize he probably barely remembers what he's done...

 

Please don't feel pathetic. And it's not a competition. I've talked to a few new women and had a couple crushes myself in the last year, but I can't seem to get a girl. So we're in the same boat. Hang in there with me?

[Psych]

I have asked myself that same question! I had an ex years ago who did the same thing. Lie, sorry. Lie, sorry. Lie, sorry. I'm really sorry-give me another chance? Lie-sorry. etc. It seemed like it was just a formality. Just a word he learned to say to get what he wanted. I don't think I ever really forgave him, because it's one thing to SAY that you're sorry. It's entirely another thing to SHOW it. Showing it, to me, means the person has to acknowledge that they did something wrong, hurt someone in the process, and then actually make an honest effort to not do the same thing again. If they're not really doing that, they can't really get forgiveness. I was mad at him for manipulating me like that, and I felt stupid for giving him as many chances as I did. I have since completely dismissed him from my life, and I like to think I am better able to identify these kinds of people before it's too late. It's all about live and learn.

[Sanesoul]

For me, forgiveness isn't about the other person, it's about myself. I forgive and move on for my own mental well-being. Harboring bad feelings doesn't hurt them, it hurts you.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

I personally don't know how anyone can forgive someone who keeps repeatedly kicking them with no remorse. While forgiveness may not mean you think there behaviour is "okay" it actually is almost patronizing to say in essence "your behaviour sucks, but I forgive you because I don't REALLY forgive you, I am just thinking I forgive you because I hope it will make ME feel better". In other words, this kind of "forgiveness" in order to "move on" is not really forgiveness at all..it is just how the package is dressed up.

[Nixee]

Forgiveness isn't for them. Forgiveness is really for you. When you forgive you let go of the pain and resentments that the other person caused by their actions. Whether they are sorry or not or whether they deserve it or not is really immaterial. When you forgive you give yourself permission to move on and not let their actions keep causing you pain.

 

When you forgive, it doesn't mean that you feel their actions are ok. And it doesn't mean you have to have them in your life. It just means you've decided to let go.

 

Absolutely 110% true and I hope you will read and reread what avman has posted.

 

When you get stuck in the place of not being able to forgive, it means you are stuck playing the victim. Now, this doesn't have anything to do with whether or not you are/were the victim (you very well may have been), but PLAYING the victim is something completely different.

 

I used to be exactly where you are with my own ex too. When he left me for someone else and then told me how sorry he was for hurting me (yet he stayed with her).... his sorry just felt SO empty. To me it felt like.. someone had stolen my car... apologized for stealing my car... yet they were going to keep my car. It didn't make any sense.

 

At some point, whether or not you agree with the other person's actions, you need to stop and realize that their actions are no longer about you... and you can't control them. Maybe they are making horrible choices. Maybe they hurt you. Maybe they DO have things to learn. Maybe you just have a difference in opinion. No one is perfect 100% of the time, and not everything will work out like you expect.

 

Let it go.

[Seymore]

I personally don't know how anyone can forgive someone who keeps repeatedly kicking them with no remorse. While forgiveness may not mean you think there behaviour is "okay" it actually is almost patronizing to say in essence "your behaviour sucks, but I forgive you because I don't REALLY forgive you, I am just thinking I forgive you because I hope it will make ME feel better". In other words, this kind of "forgiveness" in order to "move on" is not really forgiveness at all..it is just how the package is dressed up.

 

Hm...this is a really good point. Almost like it's an illusion. I do like what avman has written too. I guess I'm torn.

[Seymore]

I have asked myself that same question! I had an ex years ago who did the same thing. Lie, sorry. Lie, sorry. Lie, sorry. I'm really sorry-give me another chance? Lie-sorry. etc. It seemed like it was just a formality

 

 

Same here. And after I left, she had the nerve to say "Why don't I get a second chance? Why do you get to decide it's over?"

[Psych]

I personally don't know how anyone can forgive someone who keeps repeatedly kicking them with no remorse. While forgiveness may not mean you think there behaviour is "okay" it actually is almost patronizing to say in essence "your behaviour sucks, but I forgive you because I don't REALLY forgive you, I am just thinking I forgive you because I hope it will make ME feel better". In other words, this kind of "forgiveness" in order to "move on" is not really forgiveness at all..it is just how the package is dressed up.

Exactly! And what makes it even worse is if you TELL the person you forgive them when really it's just a therapeutic "forgiveness" for yourself. I think it gives the impression that their behavior really couldn't have been that bad, if you tell them it's forgiveable. It is likely, then, that they will just go and do it again to someone else, because in their mind, everyone is at peace with them and everything is ok. Not cool.

[Nixee]

I personally don't know how anyone can forgive someone who keeps repeatedly kicking them with no remorse. While forgiveness may not mean you think there behaviour is "okay" it actually is almost patronizing to say in essence "your behaviour sucks, but I forgive you because I don't REALLY forgive you, I am just thinking I forgive you because I hope it will make ME feel better". In other words, this kind of "forgiveness" in order to "move on" is not really forgiveness at all..it is just how the package is dressed up.

 

I think maybe you are thinking that forgiveness has to come with welcoming the person back into your life? Or with warm feelings towards the person?

 

Unless I misunderstand.

 

To me.... the reason it is important and the reason someone can do it is very simple: there comes a time when you simply have GOT to start looking towards your own future instead of your past. Holding on to grudges.... it is a heavy weight to be carrying around.

 

Whether or not someone expresses remorse.... it does not mean that they may not eventually feel it. Even if they do not, it doesn't mean that you can't find it within yourself to be the first to let things go and move on.... just for your own well being. It isn't an easy choice to make, but if you can figure out how to do it... it does feel very healthy and freeing.

[Psych]

Same here. And after I left, she had the nerve to say "Why don't I get a second chance? Why do you get to decide it's over?"

Grrr..... Isn't that horrifying??!! Oh, the torrent of begging, whining, apologizing, guilt trips, etc. I had to endure when I finally decided that he had used up all of my forgiveness. I just hope that when you cut them off, they actually learn something from it.

[Nixee]

Same here. And after I left, she had the nerve to say "Why don't I get a second chance? Why do you get to decide it's over?"

 

Of course... just like avman said... you can forgive someone without a second chance.... without having them in your life.

 

....You can make it very clear to them that you are letting go of what they have done, forgetting, forgiving... choosing not to be hurt by them anymore.... but that you are just going to move on.

 

Exactly! And what makes it even worse is if you TELL the person you forgive them when really it's just a therapeutic "forgiveness" for yourself. I think it gives the impression that their behavior really couldn't have been that bad, if you tell them it's forgiveable. It is likely, then, that they will just go and do it again to someone else, because in their mind, everyone is at peace with them and everything is ok. Not cool.

 

.... You can also choose to forgive them on your own and not tell them.

 

I forgave my ex without ever feeling the need to make a big speech to him about it. Why would I?

[Seymore]

I definitely agree that it doesn't need to be done face to face. Some people claim they need to hear it to their face to alleviate their own guilt.

[Wolf_22]

I think it's a case-by-case basis. Some people (after 'x' amount of time) you come to realize you CAN forgive. Others, though, are just never worth your forgiveness and as far as the whole "forgiveness for yourself" thing, well, that just doesn't make that much sense to me--unless you're talking about forgiving yourself for being in a relationship with a loser.

[Elsewhere]

Please don't feel pathetic. And it's not a competition. I've talked to a few new women and had a couple crushes myself in the last year, but I can't seem to get a girl. So we're in the same boat. Hang in there with me?

 

Yea definitely hanging in there together is better

I know it's not a competition but every lonely night I spend I know he's sleeping next to a girl who adores him. So unfair HE deserved to be lonely and suffering, I've never played with anyone's feelings!

See there it it, hating again...

 

Let's look for good things to come. They don't matter cause they have nothing to offer for us, lots of other people have plenty great things to offer let's focus on that.

[Seymore]

Yea definitely hanging in there together is better

I know it's not a competition but every lonely night I spend I know he's sleeping next to a girl who adores him. So unfair HE deserved to be lonely and suffering, I've never played with anyone's feelings!

See there it it, hating again...

 

I had those feelings before about the other guy she's with or was with or whatever, but I kinda let that go. He's probably pulling his hair out now, same as I was.

 

 

I think it's a case-by-case basis. Some people (after 'x' amount of time) you come to realize you CAN forgive.

 

I wonder, however, if by then it's not a case of "I forgive this person", but instead "I really don't give a rat's you-know-what anymore".

[Psych]

 

.... You can also choose to forgive them on your own and not tell them.

 

I forgave my ex without ever feeling the need to make a big speech to him about it. Why would I?

Is that actually forgiveness, though? It seems like everyone has a different concept of what it actually is. The above statement I would refer to as just "moving on."