My flake

[jettison]

So, I'm one of those guys who may have more close female friends then I have male friends. I've mostly always been this way. I just think women are cooler to hang out with in general because they're more open and in touch (in general), and that's what I appreciate the most.

 

So, I have a very close friend, K. She used to be a best friend to my ex from more then 3 years ago. My ex and I don't really communicate anymore, but K and I are tight. We are strictly platonic although we did have one drunken make-out night a LONG time ago that neither of us talk about. In every other sense, we are good buds. We have even went on trips together, her with another man, me with another woman. She talks about her men. I talk about women. It's cool. Love her very much as a friend. I'll also add that she's beautiful both inside and out, and I just feel lucky about our friendship.

 

Anyway, I've been in a rather rocky relationship with a woman for more them 10 months now. Although K generally likes her, they haven't met many times, and K doesn't like out relationship much, and I can see why. The other night I made plans with K and 3 other friends (her invite), but then I got a voicemail from my lady saying that she was on her way to my apartment.

 

Huh? Had I double-booked? I said, "Can't see you.. Already have plans." She got pretty angry and contended that we made these plans last week (even though they were never verified or followed up on). In any case, I argued a little, but I do have a bad memory and she does have a steel trap (historically) so either I totally spaced it or else she was Gaslighting me. Either way, screwed because I was double booked now.

 

Girlfriend coming from out of town. Friend in neighborhood and also going with two other friend for activity. So, I called K to say that, "I'm sorry for last minute, but I have to cancel." She was very angry, very hurt, and basically hung up on me. I apologized via text, and then again the next day over email. She wrote that she was glad that I was sorry, but my actions were "very lame", and that she would "need some space" from me before she could consider forgiving me.

 

Right now, I pretty much just feel duped. I can't blame anyone. Everyone can blame me. I certainly didn't intend to hurt anyone's feelings. I was suppose to go out with this friend tonight, but now I'm staying home and in no mood. Anyway, the "need some space" thing just seems crazy to me. It's something a girlfriend might say, but we're only friends (albeit close friends). Considering there were other people involved, and it wasn't one on one, did I make a poor choice? What should I have done differently?

 

Maybe I'm just making a big deal about this, but I don't like having people I love be so mad and disappointed at me.

[jettison]

So, I'm one of those guys who may have more close female friends then I have male friends. I've mostly always been this way. I just think women are cooler to hang out with in general because they're more open and in touch (in general), and that's what I appreciate the most.

 

So, I have a very close friend, K. She used to be a best friend to my ex from more then 3 years ago. My ex and I don't really communicate anymore, but K and I are tight. We are strictly platonic although we did have one drunken make-out night a LONG time ago that neither of us talk about. In every other sense, we are good buds. We have even went on trips together, her with another man, me with another woman. She talks about her men. I talk about women. It's cool. Love her very much as a friend. I'll also add that she's beautiful both inside and out, and I just feel lucky about our friendship.

 

Anyway, I've been in a rather rocky relationship with a woman for more them 10 months now. Although K generally likes her, they haven't met many times, and K doesn't like out relationship much, and I can see why. The other night I made plans with K and 3 other friends (her invite), but then I got a voicemail from my lady saying that she was on her way to my apartment.

 

Huh? Had I double-booked? I said, "Can't see you.. Already have plans." She got pretty angry and contended that we made these plans last week (even though they were never verified or followed up on). In any case, I argued a little, but I do have a bad memory and she does have a steel trap (historically) so either I totally spaced it or else she was Gaslighting me. Either way, screwed because I was double booked now.

 

Girlfriend coming from out of town. Friend in neighborhood and also going with two other friend for activity. So, I called K to say that, "I'm sorry for last minute, but I have to cancel." She was very angry, very hurt, and basically hung up on me. I apologized via text, and then again the next day over email. She wrote that she was glad that I was sorry, but my actions were "very lame", and that she would "need some space" from me before she could consider forgiving me.

 

Right now, I pretty much just feel duped. I can't blame anyone. Everyone can blame me. I certainly didn't intend to hurt anyone's feelings. I was suppose to go out with this friend tonight, but now I'm staying home and in no mood. Anyway, the "need some space" thing just seems crazy to me. It's something a girlfriend might say, but we're only friends (albeit close friends). Considering there were other people involved, and it wasn't one on one, did I make a poor choice? What should I have done differently?

 

Maybe I'm just making a big deal about this, but I don't like having people I love be so mad and disappointed at me.

[Celadon]

Um, seems like K's feelings have changed. You clearly mean something more to her than a platonic friend, unless she's been going through some really rough stuff lately in her life and overreacted to your flaking on her. A friend *might* do that ... but not usually.

[Celadon]

Um, seems like K's feelings have changed. You clearly mean something more to her than a platonic friend, unless she's been going through some really rough stuff lately in her life and overreacted to your flaking on her. A friend *might* do that ... but not usually.

[jettison]

Um, seems like K's feelings have changed. You clearly mean something more to her than a platonic friend, unless she's been going through some really rough stuff lately in her life and overreacted to your flaking on her. A friend *might* do that ... but not usually.

 

I think it's more the "tough stuff". She's about to turn 30. Some guy she was seeing recently hadn't called her in a week. I think I'm kind of "every guy" right now, and she's just projecting.

[jettison]

Um, seems like K's feelings have changed. You clearly mean something more to her than a platonic friend, unless she's been going through some really rough stuff lately in her life and overreacted to your flaking on her. A friend *might* do that ... but not usually.

 

I think it's more the "tough stuff". She's about to turn 30. Some guy she was seeing recently hadn't called her in a week. I think I'm kind of "every guy" right now, and she's just projecting.

[Celadon]

Ah, so you get to represent and apologize for all men everywhere. Got it. That makes sense since you two are so close. You don't have the same boundaries other people would have, so she feels OK with taking it out on you,' cuz you can take it.

 

I'm always amazed by close guy/girl friendships that aren't romantic. It's almost like ... too bad since the two people get along so well! that's hard to find in a romantic relationship!

[Celadon]

Ah, so you get to represent and apologize for all men everywhere. Got it. That makes sense since you two are so close. You don't have the same boundaries other people would have, so she feels OK with taking it out on you,' cuz you can take it.

 

I'm always amazed by close guy/girl friendships that aren't romantic. It's almost like ... too bad since the two people get along so well! that's hard to find in a romantic relationship!

[servedcold]

The only mistake I can see was being manipulated by your GF, c'mon, you know for certain whether you had plans or not, she bullied you and you let her, now you are having problems with your friend because of it.

[servedcold]

The only mistake I can see was being manipulated by your GF, c'mon, you know for certain whether you had plans or not, she bullied you and you let her, now you are having problems with your friend because of it.

[jettison]

The only mistake I can see was being manipulated by your GF, c'mon, you know for certain whether you had plans or not, she bullied you and you let her, now you are having problems with your friend because of it.

 

That's one way to look at it. That's likely how the friend is looking at it. As for the girlfriend, I don't know. She may or may not have told me that she'd be visiting me that night. Like I said before, it was supposedly told to me the previous weekend, and I'm rather notorious for a poor memory. I get it ALL the time.

 

Anyway, K and I are close so this will boil over even though she's hurt right now.

[jettison]

The only mistake I can see was being manipulated by your GF, c'mon, you know for certain whether you had plans or not, she bullied you and you let her, now you are having problems with your friend because of it.

 

That's one way to look at it. That's likely how the friend is looking at it. As for the girlfriend, I don't know. She may or may not have told me that she'd be visiting me that night. Like I said before, it was supposedly told to me the previous weekend, and I'm rather notorious for a poor memory. I get it ALL the time.

 

Anyway, K and I are close so this will boil over even though she's hurt right now.

[jettison]

I have to say, this episode is really making me question female friendships. Just like any friendship at all, it can be volatile, but this example is something that just wouldn't have happened with a man. If I made plans with a guy to go to some event, and there were going to be several other friends going as well, and I had to back out at the last second because of some unforeseen circumstance, he'd let me. In fact, he wouldn't even give me grief about it. And certainly, he wouldn't say "I need space to get past this".

 

I guess it just makes we wonder if there is something more here that we're not acknowledging because this doesn't add up very well for me. It's like we go on "dates" together sometimes that are platonic, and she saw this as one of those "platonic dates - but with other friends involved" rather then a group activity of which I was to also be a part.

 

Here I am, imagining I should be sending her flowers or something because she's upset, but I'm having a hard time accepting a lot of responsibility. I have put myself in her shoes.... "What if I asked her to the event, and then she canceled on me because some boyfriend showed up." I might be put off, but as long as there were other friends going, I would understand.

 

Plus, this has me just unreasonably worked up. Maybe all friendships have bumps though and that's all this is. And if she sees me as Everyman, then maybe I'm especially put off now because she is representing Everywoman, and she has just said "I need space" which echos a little loud with me to be honest. It just comes off like boyfriend/girlfriend talk.

[waveseer]

It comes off like bf/gf talk because it IS bf/gf talk. Her boundaries are messed up.

[jettison]

It comes off like bf/gf talk because it IS bf/gf talk. Her boundaries are messed up.

 

Hey waveseer. I took a break from this place for a little while even though I've been on here longer then you. I just wanted to say that I make a point to read your posts, and I'm impressed. You're exceedingly wise and reasonable.

 

Anyway, enough of the smoke blowing... Yes, that's what it feels like. I noticed that when I started suddenly getting way closer to the woman I'm dating a few months ago, she suddenly wasn't giving me the same hugs when she left my apartment. I found that troubling to be honest. It meant that the way that she reacts to me is dependent on who I may be dating. It's just another strange dynamic that happens when men and women form tight bonds, but they're not dating.

[Ellie2006]

Her boundaries may be "messed up" but I am doubtful that her somewhat exaggerated response is due to any changes in her feeling towards you (from platonic to romantic).

 

She *may* be a bit possessive of you -- as her best guy friend -- hence the incommensurate response to your "flaking" out on her and her friends.

 

And it sounds like she doesnt really approve of your current gf, though she may have been more circumtuitous and said instead that she doesnt like your "relationship."

 

She's obviously annoyed that you "chose" your gf over her -- is it unreasonable, sure. Is it too intense? I suppose. But it also sounds like that's the type of relationship you two have?

 

In any event, I speculate that in her mind, she's the more "stable" presence in your life, whereas your current gf will be one of those women who come and will inevitably go -- accordingly, your priority should lie with HER (permanent), not your gf (temporary). And, in her mind, you should really know better than to pass HER, THE REAL friend, over for *a* girlfriend.

 

And I think what you said -- about her feeling out of sorts bc a guy didnt call? -- perhaps played a role in her reaction.

 

Even so, I do agree it's a bit too much. Maybe the whole "space" thing wont be such a bad idea.

[jettison]

It's not even that I'm doubtful... It's platonic. We have a platonic friendship. There are no changes in her feelings (unless they are subconscious). And yes, it's the exaggerated response that just has me scratching my head a little. And I also agree that it probably felt to her like I chose my girlfriend over her. I don't know. This whole thing is throwing me way off, and it's obviously throwing her off too. She's been a great friend, for sure, but it's hard enough for me to deal with strong emotional responses from my GF. I listen to her fly off the handle about a new boyfriend seemingly every other day, day after day. I always listen, I'm always supportive.

 

I just don't know what to do with "this". I feel like my hands are tied in some ways.

[Lonewing]

Yeah, they are tied...and your feet are tied too.

 

You have two many women in your life!! One alone is bound to make a man go crazy, two is a recipe for the mad house...

 

I don't know the solution either. It sounds like K is warming up to you, and you both just aren't admitting your true feelings for each other - perhaps een denying as much to yourselves as you are to each other. It took myself three months to admit to myself I loved my ex, which was vital to me before could be with her - and after that, I was her nearly nonstop for 2.5 years!

 

Your definition that this is a platonic relationship is a mental blcok - it's not real...it will only be real as long as the two of you believe it is there...

[Ellie2006]

Your definition that this is a platonic relationship is a mental blcok - it's not real...it will only be real as long as the two of you believe it is there...

 

An interesting observation.

If I may ask: is she so possessive towards only YOU or is she like that with all of her friends -- i.e. she has to be the center of attention/ she sees herself as the glue that holds a group of friends together and/or the go-to person when her friends have a problem, etc?

 

If she is like that in general, then SHE has to realize for herself that she needs to r.e.l.a.x. and let go of certain things, that she canNOT be the end all and be all presence in her friends' lives.

 

If she is like this only with *you* then maybe the whole platonic thing IS a sham and this is a rather passive-aggressive way (for her) to mark her territory and letting you know (indirectly) that this is what she's doing.

 

If it is the latter, I guess it's up to you whether you would want to pursue a romantic relationship with her or not ... ?

 

In either case, I still think it's best to let her cool down/come to her senses on her own: she sounds like she's (in general) a relatively reasonable person. I am sure she will see that she acted a bit too irrationally.

 

Also: do YOU think you did anything wrong? If not, then I think your silence/non-response will let her know that you wont stand for this type of behavior from her -- i.e. she can't try to emotionally blackmail you and try to manipulate you by lording her friendship over your head and threatening to take it away from you. What I am saying might be a bit harsh but still, I think it's kind of what she is doing, right now.

 

Just a thought.

[servedcold]

To comment on the male v female friends, I used to think there was a difference between my male and female friends as far as friendship issues goes, but realized that friends of both sexes do some of the same annoying things, which may shed some light on why K feels as she does.

 

One of the most annoying things my friends of both sexes do is become unresponsive or uncommunicative to the point of rudeness when they get involved in a new relationship, or even when they have been in a relationship for several months. They aren't nasty or anything, just don't call, take too much time to respond to my calls, don't invite me to do things when they normally would, aren't available to do things, etc. It's as if hooking up in a relationship serves as a "get out of rude jail free" card. Many of us have been exposed to this and it creates some baggage when certain friends of ours (especially ones who self-proclaim some degree of forgetfulness or slackness anyway) get involved with someone. We "bow up" a bit and prepare to get treated as a second class citizen with some accompanying resentment.

 

I go out of my way to keep relationships from changing my treatment of friends, but just because of the time demands of a relationship, some of it is inevitable. Is it possible she has been treated like the third wheel friend by her friends in the past and this is "baggaging" into your relationship with her? If so, it's nothing to bring up with her unless she is one of your closest closest friends.

[JeckyllNHyde]

I think it's more the "tough stuff". She's about to turn 30. Some guy she was seeing recently hadn't called her in a week. I think I'm kind of "every guy" right now, and she's just projecting.

 

Good way of putting it.

I don't feel you made a huge mistake and need to take all the blame. Keep a calendar handy btw (on your phone is also good to avoid these situations).

 

But yea, I'd have to agree the whole "needing space" is a bit much, unless she used the wrong words and meant something like "I'm just a bit mad at you right now and will contact when I've cooled off and am over it".

 

I see why you're in no mood to even go out, but just go about doing your stuff, as some people take longer to cool off then others (me being one of them).

 

Like you, I prefer the opposite sex way more. For the SAME reasons you like women lol. I guess something about a male-female friendship that brings down walls and makes people feel more open, etc.

My dad always told me though that they never work out... Whether it's b/c of one getting into a relationship, one getting feelings for the other, etc.. I'm beginning to believe (thru my own experience) he was right.

[jettison]

Exactly. They sometimes don't work out. But heh, I could say that about any relationship at all with either gender. Relationships of any kind are often precarious, and they fail. And if you really care about someone then you'll recognize those key moments when a relationship can run itself off of a cliff and you'll just hold tight, not overreact, be patient, back off, and let it work itself out instead of adding fuel to the fire.

 

The best thing I can do right now is just to not react. I have already said I'm sorry twice in genuine ways. I've already explained myself. I can't do anything more. Her emotional blackmail stuff is merely a comment on her current insecurities, but it doesn't make me value her any less. We all have insecurities, and I likely just touched a nerve for her.

[jettison]

If I may ask: is she so possessive towards only YOU or is she like that with all of her friends -- i.e. she has to be the center of attention/ she sees herself as the glue that holds a group of friends together and/or the go-to person when her friends have a problem, etc?

 

I can't say really. I haven't seen her possessive of other friends in the past. A strange thing happened when I met her parents for the first time last year and they had flown out from out of state. K was in the other room, cooking with some other friends, and I found myself alone with her mom. The mom said something like, "I keep trying to get K to move back home. Some day I'll get her. And you'll have to move back with her of course." Anyway, K had had a problem the day before, and she asked me to help her with it. I was busy. So, according to her mom, she did called several other friends, then called her dad. The mom said, "She really wanted it to be you that helped her." Then she said, "You know you're her favorite right? If she had to choose between anyone to call and help then her other friends and her father (whom she adores) would come well after you."

 

All this let me know is that our friendship is certainly important to her. I get that. But it also made me wonder if we had crossed some friend boundaries here, and I'm just being ignorant.

[Lonewing]

You might both be actively trying to ignore or rather dismiss your feelings for each other...

 

..or she doesn't know what she really wants

 

...or she really likes having her big Brother...

 

...or she's scared to ask you out...

 

...or you're always with someone so there's no opportunity for her to get it up...

 

...or you're just going crazy over a psychob**** from H*ll!

 

Why does all of this have to be so darn hard!!!

 

I do know this...My dad once told me I should go after this girl inmy aprtment complex. I should have. she was real sweet. And I think she might have liked me. But then one day I told her I just wanted to be really good friends with her. I friend-zoned her...DAMNIT!

[waveseer]

Hey waveseer. I took a break from this place for a little while even though I've been on here longer then you. I just wanted to say that I make a point to read your posts, and I'm impressed. You're exceedingly wise and reasonable.

 

Anyway, enough of the smoke blowing... Yes, that's what it feels like. I noticed that when I started suddenly getting way closer to the woman I'm dating a few months ago, she suddenly wasn't giving me the same hugs when she left my apartment. I found that troubling to be honest. It meant that the way that she reacts to me is dependent on who I may be dating. It's just another strange dynamic that happens when men and women form tight bonds, but they're not dating.

 

Thank you, I think highly of you too.

 

She probably has mixed feelings about sharing you. It's not just protective either. She seems willing to adjust to your new status, she just needs a little time to make it.