If Love is not magic, is it worth fighting for?

[Cognitive_Canine]

Two affirmations with no explanations whatsoever... Do you simply believe for the sake of believing it or can you explain it?

 

I don't behave this way. Neither does my boyfriend.

 

I hate a lot of people in this world. But, I still managed to find someone great.

 

Going through all that garbage to find that one person was worth it, to me.

[Odysseus]

I'm not sure what the argument is here.

If we are talking only about initial attraction, then...facts are facts.

It's personal instinctive attraction, combined with basic characteristics like looks (not necessarily good looks, just looks), smell, overall status in the herd, other basic instincts. Of course, we are talking mostly about forums which are very primitive, like bars, dances, etc., dinner parties. LOL

[Odysseus]

Yep..and as far as men are concerned it seems the only thing many are attracted to is a woman who exudes sex...all the brains in the world and all the self-confidence in the world do not attract men. Take a brainy women who dresses in a classy way and a woman with her boobs hanging out and a short skirt who is batting her eyelashes and giving the "come hither" look and the men will flock to the latter..because many men mistake sexual aggressiveness for self-confidence..and in fact many of the women who I have know who were sexually aggressive actually had low self-esteem and lacked self-confidence.

 

I have to disagree with you crazy...and please try not to generalize us men. The self confidence thing is a big attraction. The Brains are a big attraction. These are two things that really get me hot!

[Keraron]

I'm not sure what the argument is here.

If we are talking only about initial attraction, then...facts are facts.

It's personal instinctive attraction, combined with basic characteristics like looks (not necessarily good looks, just looks), smell, overall status in the herd, other basic instincts. Of course, we are talking mostly about forums which are very primitive, like bars, dances, etc., dinner parties. LOL

 

Yes, this is what I am talking about here. No Love can even start existing without initial attraction.

 

What I am saying is that these factors are not magic/special/extraordinary at all, and may actually be like a race, like a competition. That's what I'm a bit sad about...

 

It implies that if I am rejected at initial selection, I don't have even one chance to try building a productive and genuine relationship.

 

----> So, strategically thinking, the only option for me to ensure the possibility of creating a meaningful relationship with a woman whom I like, is to have the attitude of a player (alpha/dominant male). How else can I create initial attraction?

[Keraron]

Ehm... nice post, but I sincerely didn't understand what this has to do with my questions.

[Imprecision]

A man's interest in a woman is sparked by sexual attraction. The woman sticks around to let him prove himself. With persistence and audacity, he wears down her defenses. Then, she surrenders and becomes his woman.

 

There's really nothing complicated about it. You can analyse a kiss in terms of its physiological and kinesiological bases. Or, you can see it as the natural expression of two people's intimacy.

 

Beautiful women love brave and daring men. That's just the way it is.

 

----> So, strategically thinking, the only option for me to ensure the possibility of creating a meaningful relationship with a woman whom I like, is to have the attitude of a player (alpha/dominant male). How else can I create initial attraction?

 

A lot of people talk about "player" or "alpha male." I actually have no idea what these terms mean.

 

1. I have, however, often played down how many girls I have dated. I try my best to appear as a serious guy. For instance, one time, before my current girlfriend and I became official, I was on a date with this other girl in Hong Kong. My girlfriend texted me, asking what I was doing. I replied that I was hanging out with a friend. What kind of friend - she asked. A casual acquaintance - I said. She then asked, "What kind of friend am I to you?" I said, "Someone who has an important place in my heart."

 

2. Or, another time, after my girlfriend and I became official, this other girl called me. She asked me whether I had a girlfriend. I said, "There's a girl who really likes me in Hong Kong, and there's a a girl I really like." She then asked, "Are they the same girl?" I immediately switched topic - "It's really hard to find a good woman," I said. (I should have told her I had a girlfriend, instead of leading her on. But it just happened.)

 

3. Another time, before we became official, we were in a clothing store in Hong Kong. The cashier was an exceptionally-pretty girl. As soon as I got up to the counter, she spoke to me in English. So I replied in Cantonese. She replied in Cantonese. I switched to Mandarin. She switched to Mandarin. I was surprised at how good both her English and her Mandarin were - especially her English, which had a perfect Received Pronunciation accent, even though she had never been to the West. We conversed for a while. I was about to get her number, when I remembered that my girlfriend was in the store. So I refrained. I walked my girlfriend to the subway. She didn't say a word the entire time. When we were about to part, she laughed, "You're a player." I denied it - "I'm a very serious man," I said.

 

So in my experience, it's usually good not to appear as a player. If you really want to be a player, you should not be explicit about it, because most women want nice guys. Nice guys, defined as guys who truly like them, who treat them with respect, who don't play around. (Of course, women also like men who stand up for themselves. It's more important to be a real man than to be a nice guy.)

 

So whenever I talk with women, I always convey the following:

 

1. I'm a man who loves my family,

2. my friends,

3. my people.

4. I'm looking for a good woman,

5. whom I can love forever

6. unwaveringly.

 

The vast majority of people want good relationships. Only real relationships, kindled by a willingness to love, sustained by a willingness to give, are fulfilling - So who wants to play around?

 

A young man, therefore, should express himself plainly. He should be direct, straightforward, open, and sincere. A young man should be like a bamboo.

 

1. Bamboo is flexible. It can bend under pressure, which saves it from breaking. When the pressure is removed, it bounces back. In the same way, a young man learns to live with prevailing social forces, without losing himself in the process.

2. Bamboo is straight and upright.

3. Bamboo is smooth. This represents a young man's refined and polished manners. The nodes represent his natural and unbridled character.

 

(3) is what I'm talking about - because you should let your natural character shine through. It's like dancing. Manners are like the forms of dance. But your natural style is what distinguishes you from everyone else and keeps audience interested.

 

This is why women love young men - for their natural and unbridled spirit. Girls are by nature more restrained. So they want to be with someone who dares, despite restraints, to be himself.

 

This is how I do things.

 

CAD,

 

As for your argument..I will say that the same holds true with men looking for women..they tend to look for the "easy" woman or the "alpha" woman....also the women who are troubled and completely self-involved.

 

Hahaha, I have no idea what you're talking about. Most men I know look for "nice girls" - good reputation, loyalty, family values, etc.

[BriarRose]

Hahaha, I have no idea what you're talking about. Most men I know look for "nice girls" - good reputation, loyalty, family values, etc.

...

As a nice girl myself, I can tell you that is not true.

A man's interest in a woman is sparked by sexual attraction. The woman sticks around to let him prove himself. With persistence and audacity, he wears down her defenses. Then, she surrenders and becomes his woman

..

This I agree with. That is why I always say the woman should let the man do the chasing. It's what they want to do. They just may not know it. But it is the woman that is not so available that will make him crazy.

[Imprecision]

As a nice girl myself, I can tell you that is not true.

 

Haha, then you should come meet my friends. They'll change your mind for sure.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

...

As a nice girl myself, I can tell you that is not true.

..

This I agree with. That is why I always say the woman should let the man do the chasing. It's what they want to do. They just may not know it. But it is the woman that is not so available that will make him crazy.

 

Actually...a woman who makes herself readily available for sex will get the man...but a woman who is just calling a guy to show interest in who he is as a person is deemed chasing and unattractive by the guys...why do you think there are so many posts on this forum where women sleep with the guy on the first date but are horrified at the thought of calling him just to say "hi" lest they appear too aggressive and too interested!

[Odysseus]

Yes, this is what I am talking about here. No Love can even start existing without initial attraction.

 

What I am saying is that these factors are not magic/special/extraordinary at all, and may actually be like a race, like a competition. That's what I'm a bit sad about...

 

It implies that if I am rejected at initial selection, I don't have even one chance to try building a productive and genuine relationship.

 

----> So, strategically thinking, the only option for me to ensure the possibility of creating a meaningful relationship with a woman whom I like, is to have the attitude of a player (alpha/dominant male). How else can I create initial attraction?

 

Keraron,

First you have to get in the game. Now what forum you choose to actually connect with someone is important.

- Bars? This venue can be intimidating and very much lend itself to the "herd" mentality you talk about.

- Social organizations? Shared experiences/interests are a great way to to meet people. Getting involved in a personal interest group (like an outdoor group, volunteering, etc.) allows you to shine on your own, without the distraction of other "players" stealing your thunder.

- Work. As much as people dislike the idea of work relationships, it's a common place for people to meet and fall in love.

 

That's a short list. I think if you are uncertain about your status/ability to connect with women while in the company of other men, then find other places to do it. IMHO.

 

-O

[Keraron]

That's a short list. I think if you are uncertain about your status/ability to connect with women while in the company of other men, then find other places to do it. IMHO.

 

Thanks Odysseus, I know very well how to meet and connect with women. I felt as if you're assuming that I have issues and that I am asking these questions because I am unable to meet women, rather than actually answering my question which is more general, at a society/humanity level.

 

I am merely disgusted by the fact that the foundations of love have these competitive elements, selection, etc. and as a consequence that makes me feel puzzled and uncertain about Love and "romantic" relationships in general.

 

As I also pointed out at the beginning, I can see the competitive attitude in any kind of forum or social context. Whatever context and type of girls, nerds, humanitarians, etc. they always go for the best in their field... and if they don't get gold medal, even silver will make do.

 

My life's experience has seen no exceptions so far.

[Odysseus]

Thanks Odysseus, I know very well how to meet and connect with women. I felt as if you're assuming that I have issues and that I am asking these questions because I am unable to meet women, rather than actually answering my question which is more general, at a society/humanity level.

 

I am merely disgusted by the fact that the foundations of love have these competitive elements, selection, etc. and as a consequence that makes me feel puzzled and uncertain about Love and "romantic" relationships in general.

 

As I also pointed out at the beginning, I can see the competitive attitude in any kind of forum or social context. Whatever context and type of girls, nerds, humanitarians, etc. they always go for the best in their field... and if they don't get gold medal, even silver will make do.

 

My life's experience has seen no exceptions so far.

Why does this basic part of human sexuality disgust you?

[Keraron]

Why does this basic part of human sexuality disgust you?

 

Probably because I value... "equal opportunities", whereas the competition that exists in fact is often fatalistic.

 

It is not what you call "basic part" itself that disgusts me, but the fact that it is marketed and chanted to the world as something so deeply special.

 

Imagine a disabled guy hearing so many love songs, that love is nice, wonderful, etc. but gets rejected by every girl he likes simply on the basis that he isn't an "alpha/dominant male". But then comes another disabled girl who is the only one who likes him. Is that fair?

 

No. And it deeply disgusts me.

[Batya33]

Actually...a woman who makes herself readily available for sex will get the man...but a woman who is just calling a guy to show interest in who he is as a person is deemed chasing and unattractive by the guys...why do you think there are so many posts on this forum where women sleep with the guy on the first date but are horrified at the thought of calling him just to say "hi" lest they appear too aggressive and too interested!

 

I don't think that first woman gets the man as far as the sex turning into more of a full relationship. I think those women are concerned about calling to say Hi or asking what the man's intentions are towards her because to them sex is not as vulnerable as emotional intimacy.

[Odysseus]

Probably because I value... "equal opportunities", whereas the competition that exists in fact is often fatalistic.

 

It is not what you call "basic part" itself that disgusts me, but the fact that it is marketed and chanted to the world as something so deeply special.

 

Imagine a disabled guy hearing so many love songs, that love is nice, wonderful, etc. but gets rejected by every girl he likes simply on the basis that he isn't an "alpha/dominant male". But then comes another disabled girl who is the only one who likes him. Is that fair?

 

No. And it deeply disgusts me.

 

I respect your opinion on this.

 

It is what it is. We are, after all, animals, and always will be. Life is not fair, and I don't think anyone will ever say it is. I've learned to accept what I cannot change.

 

When I was younger, I had a lot of hair loss. Now there are certainly women my age who have learned to appreciate who I am and ignore the fact that I am hair challenged, but when I was in my early twenties, it was a definite turnoff for many women my age. No matter how charming, certain, successful I was. Did that tick me off? Yes. I got over it. It could not be changed. I could rant and fume about how superficial I thought they were being ("I don't date bald guys"...actual quote), but ultimately it didn't matter. Women like these were not for me obviously. Oh what they missed out on! LOL

 

-O