25 and Never Had a Girlfriend

[Luke Skywalker]

If GernBlanston has a good career and money then the following options are available to him if you are really that desperate:

 

1) Buy into all the different PUA workshops or bootcamps out there and see which one helps you find your confidence (i.e. Real Social Dyanmics, etc...)

 

2) Get a mail-order bride or do lots of travelling to meet women in poorer countries who would like to get to know a western person with a good career and job. There are websites that talk about dating women in foreign countries.

 

3) Go to Thialand, or Costa-Rica or some place and rent a cottage with a couple of girlfriends for a month on your vacation, whatever.

 

4) Buy pheromone products and spray them on. link removed

 

5) Get a hypnotherapist to hypnotise you that you are successful with the ladies and associate good feelings with interacting with women. whatever.

(wouldn't do this one personally)

 

It's like, if you got a career and money, then you've got no excuse here because it seems so hard to believe since you can buy your way out of your mess if you want to.

 

Now, I don't know about you, but what I'm thinking of eventually doing is:

 

1) Volunteering at my church.

 

2) Joining toastmasters or any leadership group that will help bring out that leadership vibe.

 

3) Try improv comedy class and learn acting skills, (I'm volunteering in drama).

 

So, I would look at what you can do to improve yourself, or what you can buy with your money that can help you -- those are options that you have or can do that you can work on.

[GernBlanston]

It's like, if you got a career and money, then you've got no excuse here because it seems so hard to believe since you can buy your way out of your mess if you want to.

Not true at all.

 

1) Buy into all the different PUA workshops or bootcamps out there and see which one helps you find your confidence (i.e. Real Social Dyanmics, etc...)

I've been familiar with this stuff for years. It hasn't helped.

 

2) Get a mail-order bride or do lots of travelling to meet women in poorer countries who would like to get to know a western person with a good career and job. There are websites that talk about dating women in foreign countries.

Seriously? You don't think this is shady at all? Besides, it's just as unlikely that these women would find me attractive. If they did decide that they'd like a relationship with me anyway, you're suggesting that it would be because they'd have access to my money (and I'm hardly rich). I think there's a word for that kind of arrangement. Furthermore, I could never have sex with a woman who isn't attracted to me or who doesn't want to be with me. There's a word for that, too.

 

3) Go to Thialand, or Costa-Rica or some place and rent a cottage with a couple of girlfriends for a month on your vacation, whatever.

See above.

 

4) Buy pheromone products and spray them on. link removed

This is nothing but snake oil.

 

5) Get a hypnotherapist to hypnotise you that you are successful with the ladies and associate good feelings with interacting with women. whatever.

(wouldn't do this one personally)

In fact, I have gone to see a hypnotherapist. After three sessions, he told me that there was nothing he could do to help me. I appreciated his honesty.

[wsim]

Knight of Hope.... I agree that there should be at least one girl out there willing to give me a shot. I'm decent-looking, good head on shoulders, live a clean and honest life, have some female friends, get along reasonably decently with most people. Sure, I am a little shy at times but far from being socially inept. Even still, I haven't had a fair shot. I've tried everything and can only soldier on, be patient and hopefully things finally work out. It does get super frustrating sometimes.

 

Living life is alright, I'm not miserable or complain along the way. Knight of Hope, do you believe that the time will come when it is right (aka - fate?). I've concluded that I'm just not meeting the right people and therefore extremely unlucky. Despite a small but decent group of female friends/acquaintances, none of them are willing or capable of helping me meet more women. I have tried online dating but besides a few short conversations, never progressed to the point of where a girl has shown "interest". Like you, it would really go a long way if somewhat average to decent-looking girls would show interest or compliment me. Unfortunately, it seems that everything I do when it comes to dating/women is doomed to fail again and again.

[Knight of Hope]

Now, that's a claim that's unsupportable by anything but wishful thinking. I'll ask you to prove your extraordinary claim, just as you've asked me to prove mine.

 

You got me. lol

 

Can't prove it because it's really hard to prove love for sure, and we'd need to take a few billion polls. However, it would certainly help you to believe it. That's why I said it.

 

Yes. Let's say I believe what you're saying is true. Whether that has anything to do with my attractiveness, I can see how that may make me happier. How do I start loving myself? How do I work at it? What's the process? I genuinely want to be able to do this, but I don't seem to know how. Any time this solution is suggested, the answer seems to be that you just have to feel it or you just have to start believing it. I don't think I even understand how that would work. How do you start believing in something opposite to your current belief? What do I do to start loving myself a little bit more?

 

To start believing in something opposite to your current belief, it might be necessary to lie to yourself a little bit. Over and over and over, make a sincere attempt to say "I'm a lovable human being. There's a woman somewhere out there that will love me." If you don't let your mind shoot this idea down (I know it's only logical to shoot it down - my mind is very logical as well.), then you'll begin to believe it and it'll begin to show. When it begins to show, you will be more attractive to women. This is what worked for me - I was in a similar situation to yours, but I wasn't so convinced I was unlovable. Also, try not to let your fun activities and your job get soured by your desire for love. Those activities will still be there, even when you find a great girl. You will still do some of these things and have fun doing them - you probably won't spend every minute with this girl. Sever the mental link you've forged between the two things. That's all I can think of for now. Sound like an okay starting point?

[Knight of Hope]

I really feel your pain. That was me - all four years of college.

 

Anyway, in some ways, I believe in fate. I believe the right person will come into everyone's life. By "right person" I mean someone you could love and marry and happily spend the rest of your life with. However, a relationship with that person may never develop. It's up to you to make sure it does. I also believe that there are many such "right people" for a given person. So if you screw it up with the first right person, you're not screwed for life. There are still several special somebodies in the world for you. No big deal.

 

Anyway, it all begins with adopting a positive attitude about dating, even if you have to lie to yourself a little bit (I know I had to lie to myself a little bit to get myself out of my rut). So don't think that everything you do with women is doomed to fail. Don't worry about the compliments - those will come. On these dating sites, did you flirt? Did you let the girl know you're interested in her? One message does not necessarily imply interest. Flirt with her. Throw in the random compliment (keep it classy!) when the moment is right. Let her know that you want her. That's all I can think of for now.

[Luke Skywalker]

I've been familiar with this stuff for years. It hasn't helped.

 

Can you elaborate please? What PUA's did you subscribe to? What bootcamps did you go to? When and Where? Did you get your money back? What was the feedback? How much did you invest?

 

This part has to go under a micro-scope.

 

Seriously? You don't think this is shady at all? Besides, it's just as unlikely that these women would find me attractive. If they did decide that they'd like a relationship with me anyway, you're suggesting that it would be because they'd have access to my money (and I'm hardly rich). I think there's a word for that kind of arrangement. Furthermore, I could never have sex with a woman who isn't attracted to me or who doesn't want to be with me. There's a word for that, too.

 

I don't know, I think you are placing too much stalk in a woman being attracted to you like other people are saying. For example, if I masturbate, look at porn or have a sexual fantasy, in that state of mind, do you think I care if whatever is going on in my head is really attracted to me? I'm not sure if you have an imagaination and think about sexual imagery, but do you care if "that" is attracted to you? It may be a stretch to apply this to real women, but then again who cares?

 

This is why I find sometimes using a fleshlight is cool because, I can imagine anything that I want and my little head does all the thinking in that imaginary world. In the real world you have inhbitions, the logical mind and worrying about who is attracted to what. All you listen to there is one voice and that's your little head interacting with your brain. In that sense, who cares if someone is attracted to you or not as long as you get what you want.

 

The pro-seducers ALWAYS assume a woman is attracted to them, even if they are not. Chances are, if you have a belief a woman is attracted to you, then there is a bigger chance you'll take social risks then if you believe they aren't. But, my advice here is to think with your little head -- that head doesn't care who is attracted to you or not, it just cares about getting off. You just care about how that woman's body looks like and what you can do with that body.

 

This is nothing but snake oil.

 

I provided a link and it's up to you to check it out and review it yourself. Like I said, if I had lots of money and a career and felt as desperate as you did, I wouldn't hestitate to give it a try.

 

If that thing was the magic bullet, then you just closed yourself to something that could help you, but you won't know since you didn't try.

 

In fact, I have gone to see a hypnotherapist. After three sessions, he told me that there was nothing he could do to help me. I appreciated his honesty.

 

That's great. It means you are an analytical type perhaps?

 

Anyway, I've just suggested ideas of what I would do if I were in your situation and that desperate and it seems to me that you need to let your little head do the thinking and ignore the big head sometimes.

[LightbulbSun]

Gern, have you tried cognitive behavior therapy? A regular therapist isn't going to be able to help you change your thinking patterns, but a CBT will.

[GernBlanston]

Gern, have you tried cognitive behavior therapy? A regular therapist isn't going to be able to help you change your thinking patterns, but a CBT will.

In fact, I've been seeing a CBT for some time, now. There haven't been particularly notable results, I'm afraid.

[paintedblue]

I think the problem is something youre not realizing and hence this is your post we cant see it either. Hmm I dont doubt youre a great person but I think its somewhere in your approach/confidence/fear once you do meet someone.

[GernBlanston]

I think the problem is something youre not realizing and hence this is your post we cant see it either. Hmm I dont doubt youre a great person but I think its somewhere in your approach/confidence/fear once you do meet someone.

That's a really good point. That's probably why therapy has had little effect, since my issues are necessarily self reported.

 

This may very likely be the case for other men that find themselves in a situation similar to mine. If the problem is something that we're blind to, then I wonder how we would determine what behaviours we need to change. Maybe that really is the common factor between us - a lack of awareness or ability to see what we need to do differently. The question, then, is how do we function while lacking this ability.

[Knight of Hope]

That's a really good point. That's probably why therapy has had little effect, since my issues are necessarily self reported.

 

This may very likely be the case for other men that find themselves in a situation similar to mine. If the problem is something that we're blind to, then I wonder how we would determine what behaviours we need to change. Maybe that really is the common factor between us - a lack of awareness or ability to see what we need to do differently. The question, then, is how do we function while lacking this ability.

 

You could always try the brute-force, try changing one thing for a month, then another, then another, until something works. A potential problem is extreme frustration, though, if you don't luck upon the right thing to change right off the bat.

 

But here's an idea - you seem very very logical. Do you come accross as cold and analytic in real life? In my experience, women don't generally want a human calculator. Not saying that's what you are, but if you come accross that way, it doesn't matter what you're really like. Maybe you could try to be a little more spontaneous? Or maybe just act "warmer" around people.

[ind2]

My belief is that this is all a problem with misallocation of resources. I've said it before, and I'll repeat it.

 

Gern, I don't know what it is that has made speed dating and online dating unsuccessful for you. I agree with paintedblue that there's something you might not be seeing, and that we can't see either, just in your approach or something like that. I think you can't let that deter you. Some people are simply not good at making a solid first impression. I know I'm not! It takes me ages to warm up to people, and it seems like you're more able than me in that regard (given that you said people say you have a positive demeanor about you).

 

I think you can't let it build up and psych you out for future tries. The fact that it hasn't worked out before doesn't mean there is something horribly deficient about you, and let's face it, no one is that ugly, and no one is universally ugly either (not to say that you are ugly at all; obviously can't offer an opinion since I haven't seen what you look like). Some women are attracted to what other women might consider ogres. There is no universality to beauty, and likewise, there is no universality to ugliness.

 

Instead, maybe it's just that you aren't good at making first impressions, or the strategies you're resorting to favor a very select sort of male. I haven't had any experience with speed dating or online dating personally, but I've heard they are highly skewed in favor of female choice. So I don't think those are the best venues anyway for single guys given the high competition there.

 

So going back to the misallocation--I think there are many women, who after reading all your posts on this thread, would be intrigued by your personality as it comes off now. You are honest and genuine, and you are obviously clever. The fact that this is online obviously changes things, and I'm going to guess you're probably not this honest when you're not anonymous and meeting people face-to-face, but clearly you aren't a dud.

 

So this brings me to ask, when is there ever the opportunity for you to meet women in situations that aren't forced? Junk the online dating, the blind dates set up by friends, the speed dating, the singles bars. In the course of your everyday life, when you aren't actively trying to find women, is there any opportunity for you to meet women naturally? For example, women at the supermarket or the gym perhaps? Do you live in a small town where everyone knows everyone else? In your daily routine, do you see the same faces over and over and over again?

 

If the answer is yes, then how could possibly be meeting anyone in a context with doesn't put all the emphasis on first impressions?

[MD Geist]

I don't get why people say have confidence when you can't get it.

 

Confidence comes from experience and if you don't have experience well your SOL.

[Knight of Hope]

I don't get why people say have confidence when you can't get it.

 

Confidence comes from experience and if you don't have experience well your SOL.

 

You can lie to yourself. That's what I did, and I'm having some success. I've gotten my first date - ever. And that's by lying to myself enough that I got a shred of a backbone.

[dr_styles]

It's also by online dating too hehe.

There's only so much confidence you can manufacture yourself and it only means up to a certain level out there too, namely if it's not the causing problem in the first place.

 

I actually envy those who are un-confident/shy and blow it when they get hit on in some way. They already have the door opened for them (which obviously wasn't confidence)

[LightbulbSun]

I don't get why people say have confidence when you can't get it.

 

Confidence comes from experience and if you don't have experience well your SOL.

 

Confidence is also feeling assured that you have the ability to get that experience.

 

Yeah, I don't feel assured, but I'm sure if I did, I'd feel confident.

[MD Geist]

Confidence is also feeling assured that you have the ability to get that experience.

 

Yeah, I don't feel assured, but I'm sure if I did, I'd feel confident.

 

It depends on what for.

 

You can lie to yourself. That's what I did, and I'm having some success. I've gotten my first date - ever. And that's by lying to myself enough that I got a shred of a backbone.

 

Good for you.

[LightbulbSun]

It depends on what for.

 

Well, believing that you're good looking enough, or have a good enough personality, to get a girlfriend installs confidence. Even if you're a virgin who has never actually been with a girl before.

 

That's what I meant.

[MD Geist]

Well, believing that you're good looking enough, or have a good enough personality, to get a girlfriend installs confidence. Even if you're a virgin who has never actually been with a girl before.

 

That's what I meant.

 

I have those qualitlies and believe them but the results speak otherwise.

[Knight of Hope]

I have those qualitlies and believe them but the results speak otherwise.

 

So why don't you try something different? If you've got everything going for you but you're still striking out, then there must be something that you're doing wrong (or at least not quite right).

 

I was in a similar situation, and my problem was that I didn't believe in myself. I changed that, and now I have several girls interested in me, and they're girls I'm interested in, too. I'll admit my problem was relatively "easy" to fix because I knew what it was and I was lucky when I figured out a way to fix it.

 

Why don't you think about what you're doing wrong, and then try and fix it? It will give you some direction, a way to focus your energy. I really think it would help.

[LightbulbSun]

I have those qualitlies and believe them but the results speak otherwise.

 

Then I don't know what the problem is. I have the opposite problem - I believe I'm unattractive, and I'm trying to change that. When I believed I was attractive, I had girls showing interest...now that I don't, I don't have girls showing interest.

[somethngwrng]

Hm. When I was 20 I made the mistake of telling a girl that I had been going out with for 2 months, that I was a virgin. She initially didn't have a problem with it, but after we broke up a few weeks later, she made fun of me for it (and told her friends, who made fun of me too).

 

I have a girlfriend right now who I have been dating for about 6 weeks. I don't know why - probably because I'm stupid - but I told her that I was a virgin before we even had sex. On the first night we did it I was having trouble staying aroused 'cause I was so nervous. She almost FORCED me to have sex with her.

 

The next day she was lovey-dovey, but for the past 4 days it almost seems like she's avoiding or ignoring me. She said she is coming around to my house this weekend (to have sex again), but her attitude has definitely changed. She has gone from initiating text messages/calls "I like you so much", "I miss you", etc, to basically ignoring me half the time (and never saying any of this stuff).

 

If I ever have another girlfriend, I will definitely not reveal my sexual history to her. In fact, I would probably lie about it. I hate lying and I love the fact that I (thought I) could trust this girl enough to tell her that I was a virgin - but her attitude definitely changed and I feel like we're going to break up soon. It is a lie that would not hurt anyone, and I am beginning to see no other option.

[somethngwrng]

I hear many storys like this and I have yet to hear a success story.

 

Being 21 and older with no girlfriend=hopeless case.

 

That's crap man. I have 2 25 year old friends who only got their first girlfriends this year. Before that they'd never even kissed girls before.

 

I have a miserable love life but it seems every few years I get at least one girl interested, for god knows what reason. My friends who got GFs at 25...

 

One of them is very good looking and has a decent job, his own apartment, good car. He met his girlfriend from World of Warcraft. What are the chances of that? I'll tell you what - extremely slim. The fact of the matter is, if he got out of the house as much as I do, he'd be drowning in a sea of breasts.

 

The other is not good looking at all. My sister actually described him as "the ugliest guy I've ever met" and "a total arsehole". He got his first GF after moving to the UK on a working holiday and got a great job there. He met a guy there who basically forced him to approach girls every night while they were out. What do you know, he found a GF.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say, is that both of these guys were holding themselves back. We are all holding ourselves back in some way, and once we figure out the reasons, we can work on it. Being a virgin at 21 who has never kissed a girl, means jack squat.

 

I personally have had a miserable love life. Though I did go out and get drunk a lot when I was younger, and occasionally hook up with some drunk girl - that means absolutely nothing. Up until 1 week ago, I had only ever kissed 1 girl while I was sober. Now I've kissed two. I'm 25.

 

 

For those who are interested:

The first guy eventually broke up with his GF after a year, and now keeps asking me why he can't find another one. What does he do? He stays at home every night playing WoW. I invite him out all the time but he never comes out. I'm basically his only friend, so I know he's not going out with anyone else. I don't know, maybe he thinks the girl of his dreams is just going to come knock on his door.

 

The second guy is still with his girlfriend.

[LightbulbSun]

I have a friend who got his first kiss and lost his virginity at 39. And now he's living with the woman.

 

There's no time frame for finding love. It'll happen when it happens.

[dr_styles]

I have a friend who got his first kiss and lost his virginity at 39. And now he's living with the woman.

 

There's no time frame for finding love. It'll happen when it happens.

 

I don't know about you but I hardly think that's encouraging at 39. (the kiss part)

 

For those who are interested:

The first guy eventually broke up with his GF after a year, and now keeps asking me why he can't find another one. What does he do? He stays at home every night playing WoW. I invite him out all the time but he never comes out. I'm basically his only friend, so I know he's not going out with anyone else. I don't know, maybe he thinks the girl of his dreams is just going to come knock on his door.

 

Does he really wonder why he can't find another one? As in does he realise the mistake he's making. Big difference between that and someone who chooses not to go out for one reason or another but realises he's not helping his cause. Do you only invite him out for "a typical night out". Cos I'd be refusing to come out a lot of times then too.