How do you handle a narcissistic partner (long)?

[Farswe]

I just broke out of an engagement with a narcissist and found this thread while browsing the web for a better definition of narcissism. When I read the exchange, first I tried to be another passer-by but I feel it is important to share my story.

 

I have a couple of personal stories that I hope you will learn from. But before I start, I need to tell you that you ARE in the right forum. This is where you get the RIGHT kind of support. Looking for other forums full of enablers to commiserate with means that you are not looking for help, you are not looking for a solution, and you are looking for someone who will validate your wrong choices and tell you that what you are doing is the right thing. That’s not what you need. What you need is to be told again and again that you MUST get out. Loulee’s words may seem harsh but every single word of it is the absolute truth and I can tell that they are all rooted in experience. Only someone who has truly experienced life with a narcissist can write about them so eloquently.

 

The path you’ve chosen will without a doubt destroy your son. Forgive me for saying this but the abuse you’ve endured has damaged your sense of self to the point that you are making any and all kinds of excuses to justify your own decision to stay with your wife and when you don’t get the “acknowledgement” that you crave, all you want to do is find the forum that will make you feel good about your choice and actions. Does that sound a little familiar by any chance? Isn’t that what your wife does when she -- amazingly enough -- agrees to go and see a therapist with you? She’s looking for validation and when she is confronted and told that what she’s doing is wrong, rather than take action and become a better person, she just wants to go to another psychologist that will hopefully validate her… you see this, don’t you?

 

What made me not want to remain quite about this issue was when I read that you are making excuses for your decision by making it be about your son’s wellbeing and are giving yourself a pat on the back that you’re “saving” him from this abusive person by sticking around. Not true. You will end up ruining your son’s life in the process. The real threat is your wife but you're knowingly participating in this game.

 

The notion of staying together and making a marriage work “for the sake of the children” DOES NOT APPLY here. Don’t fool yourself. Nobody else is buying it, don't you see? It's not because you're not explaining it well enough or we're not getting it, it's actually the opposite. We know all too well what's going on and want to help you see it, too.

 

Let me put it this way, if you found out that you sister’s (let’s assume you have one) children are being molested and s*xually abused by their own father, and your sister knows about this, would you expect her to stay in that marriage so the children are safe and protected or pack up and get the h*ll out?? How protected do you think they will be while they’re all living under the same roof? Let’s take it one step further, what if she was worried that she couldn’t prove her case to a jury? What if he was so good at selling his own version of the story that people would think it’s all in her head? What then? Should she stay to protect the children or take them and GET THE H*LL AWAY??

 

Abuse is abuse. Mental abuse is NOT better than physical abuse… it’s actually far, far worse and the damage is almost irreversible.

 

Now to my stories... I’ll split them in two posting because they will get pretty long.

 

17 years of abuse…

For 17 years I lived with the worst possible narcissist you could imagine! A textbook case of how everything can go wrong with a person and make them become the worse horror on earth. I had no choice in the matter, he was my father!! The abuse of my mother started from the moment I was conceived which led to my parents unfortunate and forced marriage and continued on for many years. The scar of the emotional abuse that I endured did not heal until I was in my early thirties and even that after countless hours of therapy and “corrective experience”, as they call it.

 

His anger was mostly directed as my mom but I wasn’t safe from it just because she was around! Witnessing the endless fights and abuses did a number on me...

That’s the common mistake most abused parents make. They think their role is to STAY in a relationship that’s abusive to PROTECT their children.

My mom was making up all the same excuses that you are making now. She said that she stayed because of me and my sister. She was worried about how we would be treated and felt that she was being a good mother and doing us both a favor. As luck had it, something finally clicked in her and she left him when I was 13 and my sister was 5 years old. This was AFTER putting up with his cheating, beating, cursing, demeaning, threatening, and belittling of her for years. I'm sure I don't need to give examples or list them; you know what I am talking about.

 

Guess what?! She couldn’t take us with her! Me and my 5 year-old sister had to stay behind for many reasons. For one thing, he was – as is the case with all narcissists – so good at manipulating and making himself look good that pretty much the court wasn’t buying my mom’s story. Furthermore, she didn’t have any scars or bruises to prove it and the emotional scars are only evident to a therapist or someone who is an inside observer. Not only that, he pulled a few strings with some powerful people and took sole custody of us.

 

And so we lived with my dad.

Of course, he made every attempt to make her be the “bad guy” and could so smoothly and effortlessly use reason and logic to explain why he has had a mistress for the last 5 years and why it’s my mom’s fault because her hair is short and she laughs out “too loud” and on and on. He kept us from seeing her for almost a year and if he ever caught me sneaking outside to see her I’d be in A LOT of trouble! A good beating or hard spanking would definitely follow. My mom was aware of this and so she was very cautious not to make the situation worse for us.

 

Now, you might be thinking that I’m making your case for you but if you thought that, then you're thinking in terms of yourself not your child. Listen, if you are trying to act like the good parent (that I'm sure you are), then you need to understand that by leaving, my mom created a BETTER environment for us. They were not fighting every day, she wasn’t crying every week, he wasn’t constantly angry at her in front of us and throwing her out of the house, he had even stopped calling me names (e.g. bastard, monkey face, stupid, etc)… This was not because he had healed or anything like that but because he had now started the cycle over with another woman and directed his anger to another adult who didn’t live with us, his "mistress" ... now turned girlfriend/fiancé. Although he was painting a bad picture of my mom and keeping us from seeing her, my sister and I had peace and quite! It is some of the calmest memories I have from my childhood. It was almost foreign because we hadn’t had that in a very, very, very, very long time.

 

If you’re worried about your son’s wellbeing, you need to know that the narcissist – your wife in this case – will be seeking out another male victim in no time. She might have him lined up already and you’re just not aware of it. She will NOT turn her issues towards your ? year old son partly because your son is still too young and unaware to feed into her thirst and need for sucking the life out of others and partly because to a child a parent is always “God like” and she is actually getting some of that grandiose needs satisfied by being the mother and “having all the answer” without being questioned about their validity.

 

Don’t get me wrong now… the deal is not for you to leave him alone and go get your own life and forget about it. The deal is for you to get out, get better, pull your life together, get your confidence back, become the man and the father that you can be, and HELP YOUR SON OUT just before she starts to turn against him. You have time! If you’re wife is still single when your son is in his late teens, that's when she will start to treat him the same way that she has been treating you and all others in her life. That's probably because he'll become more defiant and question her more. If you do the smart thing, the right thing, and LEAVE RIGHT NOW, you will without a doubt be able to pull him out and rescue him. You won’t be able to if you don’t leave. Don't hide in your cocoon, be a butterfly and teach him how to become one too! You’ll ruin his life forever if you stay. Let me repeat that: “He’ll be irreversibly damaged.” Believe me!

 

Don’t worry about how your son will feel about you tomorrow or in a month or in a year, that doesn’t matter, that's not damaging him and in due time he'll realize the truth. Think bigger picture and think about his entire future. Trust me on this; once he hits the teens, he will start to get frustrated with her and the older he gets the more he’ll be able to understand what she’s all about. If you’re on the outside, he’ll get there even faster and will know that A) it is possible to get away from her grip and B) there is somewhere for him to go to. But not if you stay.

 

Unless you have a history that would make a judge refuse to give you visiting rights or partial custody, I don’t see a reason why you wouldn’t continue being part of his life forever. This will be even better for your son while he’s growing up because he will have an escape in coming and spending a day or two or more with you. He’ll be able to recognize and separate the good and the bad. be able to tell –on his own – that something is not quite right with his mother.

 

Had my mom not left my dad when she did, I don’t know where I would be or what I would end up becoming. Yes, I was left behind but I finally got out, too. That's the lesson!

Although the fights and the bad-mouthing was there throughout my life, when I was 17 years old he started to treat me the way he used to treat my mom. Guess what I did? I got out! I didn't run away but I went to authorities with a few bruises and being a minor, well you can imagine what happened after that.

 

Let me say this again:

Had my mom not left my dad when she did, I KNOW I would not have had the guts to do what I did.

 

Be a role model.

Don’t be weak.

 

If you’re not going to do this for your son, then you shouldn’t ever talk about him as your “reason for putting up with her”. You’re not protecting him, you’re making him learn all the wrong messages in life… that world is cruel, people are mean, marriages are always unhappy, grown ups don’t respect each other, parents disrespect and demean each other, children are not important, etc, etc…

He'll be resentful of YOU.

 

I know this became a little lengthy. Later on I'll write about my adult experience with my narcissist significant other and how recognized it and got out of it before it sucked me in for years and years of my life.

[LilyXX]

This woman sounds like a total nightmare. I never heard anything like this.

I would say get way form her fast.

 

My mother is a little like this, but not as bad. My dad stayed with her and put up with her crap. She got a little better over the years. May be she changed because she did not want him to leave.

[Kelebek]

Sounds more like insecurity and stress than narcissism.

[LansEnd5059]

i'm just wondering, as all this happened months ago, how are things going. i, too, do not understand how "taking abuse" still is attracted to his wife . . . ? what's up w/that? you're definitely NOT the NPD in this household, as you would've been off w/10 other women by now.

 

i stayed w/my ex way too long. it damaged my kids, emotionally - BIG TIME!!! my ex used the kids to bad-mouth me - it was not good. i never talked bad about him b/c i knew it would hurt my kids. he did not have that respect for his own children. like your wife, he'd rather get his digs in than care about the psychological welfare of the child. i was stupid. i stayed, thinking it was best for the kids to grow up w/a father. i was so wrong, but that's what happened. amazingly, my older son emerged a PhD w/a great post doc position currently. my younger son, emotionally scathed, has made jail is primary home.

 

it is true, NPDs are able to sway the court people. psychiatrists also can be duped by them. if you are able to get any type of professional on YOUR side & really understand the situation, it may be the healthiest thing to get you & your kid out of this. i do understand your fears, though. i really do. i was afraid that my husband of the time would come after me & try to kill me, so, there WAS that fear.

 

please read all the Sam Vaknin stuff you can. google his name. he's got chapters upon chapters, all free, to read on the web about narcissists. he'll also respond to a question you may ask. keep it very short as he gets tons of emails. he is the expert & a narcissist himself. good luck to you.

[LansEnd5059]

what Farswe says above sounds valid, in a way. get out & have that opening available for when your son needs a place to go. that's an option. how old is your son? this could be a big issue. depending on how much he wants to be w/his mommy. if he's older, maybe he can tell the courts who he wants to live with. or, the whole idea of a split may really hurt him, in which case maybe Farswe's idea is the best. it really depends on a case by case scenario.

 

i stuck it (the marriage) out for 20+ years & then in a recent relationship stuck it out for 4 years, just ending it the other day - finally!! it's really not healthy. i always thought, i can beat this thing, i can let the insults roll off my back. i can take it. i'm strong. i have enough confidence. i don't have to feel controlled by him. i don't have to defend myself every minute - i can let it just be. but, now that i'm "OUT" & looking back . . . sure, it was an education, an observation, witnessing (of myself & other). i now know all the signs & i don't think i could ever possibly ever again be taken in by a narcissist. all the blame i put up with & as someone above mentioned - "blamed for EVERYTHING!!" no kidding. EVERYTHING. and especially for the very stuff the N is doing!! often i sat speechless at the insults, only to be blamed for arguing & defending myself - all w/out opeing my mouth. this is no joke. i can't express how much it means to me to see that written in people's letters. everyone has always looked at me blankly when i mention that 'blame model.' i think they think i'm exaggerating. so, thank you all who have written about that. it is just so awesome to be validated & understood.

 

i hope Taking Abuse is taking this all in . . . wishing you the best. of course, we don't know your full situation & all that we say may seem just beyond the scope of your abilities. once again, read Sam Vaknin's sites - you will learn MUCH about your life. he writes about how to live w/your narcissist, also. some ideas may work for you - others do not. one suggestion is to rage back at the N. this was iffy w/my N's. on the one hand they are impressed that i 'have that (rage) in me.' on the other hand, they don't really want to hear my voice AT ALL. i really used to think it was all my doing, but now i know reality.