How Do You Un-Kill Someone?

[user1988]

My ex did this to me, made me feel ugly, worthless, fat and everything. He did this on a daily basis and I took it for 2 years. Even though I knew I wasn't ugly or fat considering I do have other boys after me and I'm a size 0! Anyways, as much as I love or loved him I just don't think I can ever forgive a person who has done that to me. Even after 6 months of no communication I can honestly tell you to this day I have not forgiven him. I want to be able to give you an answer that you'd like to hear but truthfully I was treated the way your boyfriend was treated and the pain and suffering that I went through just can't be forgotten.

 

I mean how would you like it if your spirit was constantly being broken even though you apologized and forgave time and again?

[andomain]

forgive me this is going to be VERY long.. so if you're bored feel free to read

 

this is the email that i read to him on the phone, and led me to break up with him.

 

first of all.. i love you.

 

i've been doing a lot of thinking especially today, and have finally figured out our problem.... i think.... our problem is commitment. i've been completely committed to you practically the whole time we've known each other, but you have not been committed to me.. you've been committed to your mom, brother and friends.. mostly your mom and brother. every single fight we've had, even the extremely stupid ones have been because of your lack of commitment to me and undying devotion to them.. i didnt really realize that until today. EVERYTHING, has to do with that.. my behavior towards you in every way stems directly from that. you say i'm your number one priority, but i'm not.. i believe in your MIND i am, but not in reality.

 

you say youre torn between me and your mom and brother.. it shouldnt be that way.. thats gotta be a really * * * * ed up place to be. i can only imagine. but i'm not the one doing the tearing. every adult makes the decision to grow up. every adult at some point makes a choice as to who his or her number 1 is going to be.. usually they choose a man or woman NOT RELATED to them, to try and start a new life with away from the family they grew up with. its not always an easy decision, but its one that we all make. you seem to have chosen them over me, which leads me to believe you're really not ready to grow up. definitely not ready for a grown up relationship, and i dont mean that to sound mean either.. its just the truth.

 

your brother has a girlfriend does he not? do you think he would let you stand in the way of his relationship to her? not that you ever would, but if you did theres no way in hell he would tolerate it. yet you tolerate him interfering with our relationship. you allow yourself to be torn. do you think he gives a flying * * * * what you become, or how successful in life you are? no.. he doesnt.. all he cares about is himself.. i dont even know him and i know that. he wants you all to himself. not willing to share if it means he gets the shorter end of the stick. if ANY one of my family members behaved to you the way he has behaved towards me, there is no way in hell i would ever talk to that family member ever again until they apologized sincerely to me and to you. end of story. but you let him get away with it. you let him walk all over you, in more ways than one. there are no consequences for his actions when it comes to you. you just eventually end up hanging out and talking again. i'm sure there are clear boundaries he has set up for you and everyone else in his life, but you have no boundaries at all.. with ANYONE. least of all your mom and him.

 

i like your mom.. i genuinely like her, but the way she treats you is wrong too. you are her son.. not her husband. i understand her feeling like you are all she has, but she has lived her life.. you havent even started yours yet, and its extremely selfish of her to deny you the chance of making a life for yourself by making you feel guilty about it. but the blame ultimately lies with you. because you ALLOW it.

 

i know you love her.. i know you love scott.. i'm not asking you to stop loving either of them, but if you want to have a life of your own you have to wiggle yourself away from their grasp. they will not let you go on their own, thats obvious.

 

my uncle jimmy took care of his mom until the day she died. he never got married never had kids, never even had a girlfriend that i know of. now its too late for any of that, all he has now is money.

 

it upsets me and disappoints me because i see so much potential in you to be something wonderful.. you have so many extraordinary gifts, not just your artistic talents, but your heart, your soul and your mind as well. your already an amazing person, but youre wasting yourself. and that makes me sad.

 

your mom and your brother should have a place in your life, but they should not be the center of it. they CAN NOT be the center of it, if you ever plan on growing up and making a life for yourself. the woman or man a person is with should be the focus of that persons life. helping each other achieve everything one another is capable of achieving. your mom doesnt want to let go because she is afraid of being alone. i understand that, but she must let go anyway.. you have to make her let go. my dad had a hard time leaving his mom too, but he found my mom and thats part of life. thats what kids do. they let go, they leave and parents adjust. she will be sad and lonely at first, but then she will get used to it and probably grow to love her independence.. and its not like she doesnt have other family there to help her out... if you got out on your own, and got a good job youd be able to help her even more.. she may have to downsize with the animals, but thats a sacrifice shes gonna have to make. you've sacrificed enough of your life already.

 

unless thats what you truly want.. if you want to devote the rest of your life to your mom, brother and friends.. then i cant be your girlfriend.. i can be your friend, but i cant keep trying to make a relationship with someone who either doesnt want a real relationship, or isnt ready for one. saying you dont know HOW to be in a relationship is an excuse. a poor one at that. you just need to get your priorities straight.. its as simple as that. stop living for other people and start living for yourself.

 

i love you. i've always loved you and i always will love you. whether we're together or not, but i cant do THIS anymore. one way or the other it has to change.

 

THEN A FEW DAYS LATER I SENT HIM A LETTER TO HIS HOUSE.. unfortunately i didnt make a copy, but this was his reply:

 

 

I got your letter. I wasn't sure what you were going to say, but it was appreciated. You seemed to have everything figured out last time we talked, and even what I heard from becky seemed to hold me in the negative. So I didn't know what to expect. I still havn't wrapped my mind around everything. I don't know what to feel or what has happened exactly. I know I failed at whatever it was.

 

I didn't tell her to have you call me. I told her I was hurt and I was going to get ahold of you as soon as I was ready to talk. I was confused and I still am. I wanted to answer when you called, but I honestly didn't want to talk to anyone. I didn't want to talk to becky about it either, but I'm glad she called. I needed to talk to someone I guess. Still its hard to talk about your feelings when you don't know what you're feeling. Plus I don't know her all that well really.

 

I've been trying to think and keep my mouth shut. I still don't know what to say. I'm not ok, but I'm ok. If that makes any sense. I don't feel ok, and its worse now that I know you are hurting too. I'm very confused, and I'm trying to figure things out. I tend to withdraw when I'm wounded, you know that already though. I've been distant with pretty much everyone. Except maybe my dog. I did take a lot of pills and spend a lot of time sleeping. Socializing is the last thing on my mind. I would rather be out in the countryside as far away from everyone else as I can get. I really need to get a tooth pulled. Doesn't help my state of mind. The world can just be heavy sometimes. The things that dance in your mind are usually the heaviest. I doubt that "dance" is the proper word, but I can't think of anything more fitting.

 

That reminds me. You really need to sleep. You need to eat. You need to be ok. I'll be ok. Other than that I don't know * * * * . Thats something I've become very aware of. I'll be better when I can get everything settled in my brain.

 

Its like everythings changed after trying so hard to get to know you. Like I never really knew you at all. I tried to get in, but there was too much resistance. I probably went about it wrong anyway. I don't know what to say. That must be obvious. Another bad habit of mine. I shouldn't be saying any of this maybe. I just don't know. It seems wrong. Its not your fault, I just don't know what I'm doing.

 

Anyway I'm sorry. I'm not sure if I'm ready to talk yet, or even what I need to say right now, but for everything I've done, I'm sorry. I'm not going to shut you out, I would never do that. I just need time. I never stop loving.

 

 

my reply:

 

i'm fine. not fine fine as in HAPPY fine, but i'm ok.

>

> i really dont know whats going on in my own mind either. i'm glad you're

> not talking to me.. i wouldnt know what to say either. i thought i knew

> what i would say, but i really dont.

>

> i have gotten sleep. lots of it. and i'm still thinking and figuring

> things out too. i know you will be ok. i know i will be ok. what has

> happened is not ok, on many levels, but i have accepted blame for my

> part of it. please dont blame yourself too much ben.

>

> i dont know if we should ever be together again as a couple, but i do

> know i love you very much, and i realize and understand what i've done.

> the way i treated you was wrong.. there are no excuses for that. saying

> i'm sorry is not nearly enough but i am..

>

> i'm not asking for your forgiveness. i'm not sure if i deserve it. i

> just wanted you to know that i am sorry.

 

 

his reply:

 

Thank you. We've made this mess together however so I think we are both to blame.

 

I love you too. I don't know how things got so * * * * ed up, but no matter what you'll always be a big part of my life. Always! I feel like I'm trying to find myself again. Its rough. I hope your friends and family don't hate me.

 

I'm having a * * * * ed up day. Hiding from the world seems like the best thing I can do for myself at this point. I do feel a little better knowing that you're ok. Thank you for that.

 

my reply:

 

> everything is fine ben!! at least on my side... i dont like knowing that

> you're all * * * * ed up, or whatever you are right now, but i'm totally

> ok.. aside from knowing that.

>

> it wasnt your fault. it was mine. the blog i wrote on myspace a few days

> ago sums it all up, pretty much.. kind of... the way i treated you was

> wrong no matter how you look at it. i realized that. i figured something

> out about myself, and although i feel like * * * * that i hurt you, i'm

> glad i figured it out.

>

> you will always be part of my life as well. i hope you get to feeling

> better. try not to stew in your own juices too much. you dont want to

> ferment.

>

> i'm sorry, for everything.. i really, really am. if i could take it all

> back i would in a heartbeat, and do things differently. i should never

> have treated you the way i did. i wasnt fair to you at all. my friends

> and family dont hate you.. they all LIKE you very much.

 

his reply:

 

I just read that blog. Your not as bad as all that. I love you and I'll be ok. It just takes me a long time to heal inside. I turn from depression to anger and not much in between, but it'll all be ok. As long as you are ok, I will be too. I just wish I could have been more than I am. I'm still working on being a better person. I have a lot of work left to do, but you've helped me in so many ways. I can't even begin to thank you for that.

 

I liked your new pics too. You look stunning as always.

 

I'll never be able to stop worring about you. I'm still here for you whenever you need me. I miss you. Thats hard to say but its very very true.

 

my reply:

 

 

his reply:

 

just read your letter. Well both of them actually. Knowing you'll always be my friend is the best news I've had all in awhile. I know for sure we've both grown from knowing each other, and I can't lose you. Thats just the way it is, but its still a little weird right now. I feel off. Just not myself yet. I've been sleeping in way too late. My tooth is still an issue too. I need to make an appointment, but I've been working even though I could have taken the week off. Excuses I know, I need to just do it. Spring break is in another week so hopefully I can deal with the pain that long. I'm used to it really. Teeth are stupid.

 

 

my reply:

 

> i cant help but feel like i've lost you. makes me kind of sad. i want

> things to be normal. still doesnt feel normal. its a very strange

> feeling. i want to make things ok, but i really dont know how.

>

> i'm really sorry your tooth is hurting you. wish i could help.

 

His reply:

 

You havn't lost me. I feel a little lost, but you don't ever have to worry about losing me. As I've told you before, I'm like a rash or a fungus. You can never really get rid of me. So don't be sad. Theres not enough bleach in the universe to kill bacteria on my level. I'm like the king of the things that go ooze in the night, and I wear my crown proudly as I smush and glop myself to glory. All for glory.

 

I paint a pretty picture, do I not?

 

I'm still not right, but getting the tooth out will help my whole state of mind instantly. Its like carrying a curse and not being able to break its hold. It puts me in a sour mood every time I think about it.

 

I want to sleep, but I don't need to. Not yet anyway. I should eat though. Thats what I'll do, I'll eat. Then maybe I'll sleep. I have no energy, and very little motivation today.

 

You better be ok.

 

my response:

 

 

what should i do ben? i wish you could talk to me. i feel like i'm groveling, or something. i dont know how to do this. you say you're not shutting me out, but thats exactly what it feels like you're doing. its pretty confusing to me..

 

my feelings for you are stronger than i thought they were. there are so many things to talk about, but you're still not talking to me. i guess i'm still holding on because i'm not sure if you've let go or not. if you have let go then i need to know. i cant get on with my life until i know for sure. i'm so confused about everything. if you're not going to talk to me then the only left for me to do is to forget about it and get on with my own life. i dont know if thats selfish of me or what..

 

all the times you called me and apologized to me (even if i was the one who should have been apologizing) i always answered.. even if i didnt want to. now you are shutting me out.

 

i want to work things out. i want to make things work, but if you dont want to i respect that. things shouldnt be as weird as they are right now.. i am ok, and will be ok no matter what, but it feels like this has turned into something so huge and dramatic. i dont know WHOSE fault that is, but i dont like it.

 

i'm just as confused as you are. i love you ben, and i want to be with you. if we arent going to work things out, then i dont know if i CAN be friends with you.. this is all starting to hurt me a lot. i'm really confused.

 

i miss you so * * * * ing much. i miss things the way they were, aside from me being horribly cruel to you, and dealing with the things the WRONG way. i can see so clearly how things could be, if you would just let me back in. i'm not saying we wouldnt still have fights, or that i'm a totally different person, or ever could be, but i see you differently now. i see EVERYTHING differently now, but you're not letting me move. i'm powerless, helpless and at your mercy. i thought i was ok, and would continue to be ok, but i'm not.

 

i think about you hurting and it * * * * ing kills me. i dont want you to be in any pain of any kind. i want to make everything better, including your tooth, and i would do just about anything to make it happen right now.

 

i wish you could see inside me. i really do. i'm suffering because you're suffering. you're always the one i would go to when i was suffering, but now we are suffering together, but apart. i kind of feel like someone has died, and i want desperately to bring them back. i know i said love is an addiction, and it is, but i made it seem like it was a bad thing. i made you seem like you were a bad thing. you are the absolute best thing that has ever happened to me and i want to prove that to you. even if i have to drive up there and stand outside your window with a stereo blasting some really gay song all night long. i'll do it too.

 

there is no reason that either one of us should be hurting right now. we should be together and making each other feel better. neither one of us needs to be lost. something really bad happened.. it happens to everyone, but if you love each other you get through it together, and i do love you. i love you with every fiber of my being (including my pride, which i'm stomping all over right now)

 

i want to hold on to you as tightly as i can and never let you go. thats all i know. i love you. i'm in love with you, and i want to be with you.

 

sure something has broken, but it can be repaired and be made into something even better. i know it can be, if you would only talk to me-------------

 

and thats where it ends.... where it stands right now.

 

all of these emails and letters took place over a period of about 2 weeks.

[1MoreChance]

Seeing a therapist DOES require patience and work and willingness and I don,t see in any way how that means one is seeking instant gratification. For people dealing with toxic shame and guilt and having control issues, it is very hard to heal on your own without help. that's why it helps to work with a competent therapist. Yes, OP is talking about compex and complicated issues and beahviors that seem to be making her very unhappy and upset. the reaosnable thing to do, here, seems to be suggesting to seek professional help as WE cannot possibly give her an instant and easy solution to her problem.

[1MoreChance]

I don't think I'm a BAD person.. I never said I thought I was a BAD person, but you are right about the guilt.

 

I went from blaming him for EVERYTHING, directly to blaming MYSELF for everything, and I believe he is busy blaming himself for everything right now as well, and we are not talking so nothing can be fixed. That part REALLY frustrates me. I know thats what he's doing. he blames himself the same way I blame myself, but instead of talking to me or ANYONE for that matter, he shuts himself off and hides.

 

he may shut himself and hide cause he is afraid. the way you go fomr blaming him totally to then blaming yourself totally, sounds like the black and white thinking, known as "splitting", done by borderline personality disorder.

 

get help please, so you can find happiness and eventually be able to have an intimate relationship. you deserve no less.

[1MoreChance]

I don't think you are a bad person at all, but I do think you ar ein a lot of denial. I find this statement to be expressing a lot of denial:

 

"I am a woman. He is actually more of a woman than I am in a lot of ways. I wanted him to be stronger and more assertive, but I did push too hard and I did it in the wrong way."

 

It's like you are saying that he disappointed you so much by not being less "woman" and more "man" (sorry but... whatever that means???), that he deserved you trying to "help" him by pushing him more. You cannot help someone be more assertive and stronger by bullying them... this was about YOUR issues and it isn't HIS fault. Nor is it yours. Blame and fault are counterproductive. RESPONSIBILITY, for your feelings and behavior NOW, are what you need to focus on. I do agree that you need to let him go. He is human too and he needs to heal himself now. PLease, take care of YOU now and you will change and become a more loving person.

[1MoreChance]

Firstly ..guilt is the first step to self realisation. Perhaps this her first step to reconcile her issues. No one has a right to judge someone trying to improve on the ways of the past

 

I believe this experience and relationship CAN teach her LOADS about herslef and propel her into and through healing.

 

BUT, I think there is such thing as toxic guilt and shame which do not allow a perons to take responsibility. self-blame can be very destructive. the guilt can be a way to stay in a pattern of remorse and acting out.

[1MoreChance]

I think thre is a lot of truth in this.

 

She has control issues she needs to face. control issues stem from being terrified in the face of relationship.

 

and this:

 

"You sound like one of those people who like to push and push and push and see how far they can push people before they give in, so you can eventually say "See! you really don't love me like you said you did!"",

 

was ME to a T. I have major relational wounds from childhood issues from my father abusiing me. She needs to stop focusing on HIM, and work on herself.

 

Let him go adn ask yourself what you have to learn form that relationhip. be grateful he loved you and came into your life. and try to remember also, what you did that was good. surely you are not all bad and you need to value yourself. If you value yourself, truly and it takes work and healing, and coming out of denial is the hardest part, then you will behave differently.

 

TAKE CARE.

 

look up borderline personality disorder in Google and talk to your doctor, social services, etc., to try to get into a support group or try to get into therapy.

[1MoreChance]

Well, now you know how it feels like to hear things you don't like to hear.

 

How is my post not helpful? I'm trying to point out to you that what you did was horrible. I do think that you deserve what happened - I don't think there's any other way around it.

 

I am a product of a verbally and emotionally abusive relationship, that's why I have ZERO tolerance for people like you.

 

THank you.

 

I understand you are angry. It hurts. I have been with a man about 10 years ago who hurt me (yes abusive in a way I allowed, no physical abuse though) and I felt "in love" with him and would have done anything to be with him and he was alcoholic, and narcissisitic. I ended up leaving after 6 months (we were never truly "together" in the true bf-gf sense but I still saw him). He never apologised, showed remorse, etc. I was very angry, for a long time. I had to realise why I stayed and expected more form him, and what it meant for ME. I chose to stay because of my low self esteem. anyway point being, staying angry is giving up my powe rto him and remaining a victim.

 

you sound like you have an "eye for eye" mentality and that you feel very powerless. telling OP that she deserves this is not for you to judge.

 

I think one can be straightfoard and tell it like it is, all the while being compassionate.

[1MoreChance]

I'm not even exactly sure why I'm here to tell you the truth.

 

Perhaps it was a bad idea.

 

I'm suffering just as much as he is, and it kills me knowing that he's hurting. Believe that or not, its true.

 

Talking about it on here is getting me nowhere. I know I need to give him time. If he decides to open back up I will let him in and treat him the way i should have been treating him the whole time. I'm not saying we will never fight again, but the cruelty will stop. That much i am sure of. If he decides not to talk to me again, I will accept it and move on. Thats all I can do.

 

But how do you know the "cruelty will stop"??? It's not gonna disappear by itself! That is why people are telling you to seek help. That is why I am telling you I think you are in denial, the strongest mechanism in the human psyche. I believe that now is time to focus on yourslef and quit trying to communicate with him. youi can make it up to him in a year or so if he wants to, after you have worke don yourslef. I find it odd that you come post here to say you know for sure that you will be differetn THIS TIME when in fact you seem to have been very cruel and out of control. I am just trying to help. I don,t want o become overinvolvd, I think I have been vey respectful to you and truly want the best for yo and I do hope my posts were helpful.

 

Take care.

[1MoreChance]

ok I read your WHOLE post with all the correspondence between the 2 of you.

 

I wanted to comment on a few things. you wrote to him, regarding his relationhsips with family members:

 

"my behavior towards you in every way stems directly from that...."... I kindly want to say that your behavior is your choice and doing and stems from yourself and your issues. His choices regarding his family are his choices and you are not gonna change him...

 

He also wrote that he was met with resistance everytime that he tried to get close to you. maybe NOW you wanthim vack because he is pushing you away? But in turn, you cannot handle closeness when you do have it?

 

finally I think you guys sound very helpless and needy and addicted to drama. you write love is an addiction. I disagree. I think that control, rage, and drama, on the other habd, are very addictive.

 

I am really learning a lot form this thread about myself and my last relationship. Thanks for sharing your experience.

[andomain]

I'm not sure what i'm going to write here, but i feel i need to write something so here it goes..

 

I'm growing very tired of hearing the whole seek professional thing. I have nothing against seeking it, if a person feels they truly need it. I do not. I know myself very well. I know everyone is rolling their eyes right now, and thats ok.

 

its been beat into our heads that "people don't/can't change overnight" and thats simply not true.. most people don't, but there are those who do. you hear it a lot from people who have near death experiences or survive some other type of really traumatic experience. they come away from it a "changed" person. just like that. POW, something snapped in them and forced them to open their eyes wider than they've ever been opened before. it was the experience itself that made it happen, not seeing a therapist. therapists do the same thing by gradually opening someones eyes to things they may not have seen before. therapists are there to help people who have trouble opening their eyes themselves, and thats ok too.

 

there is NOTHING black or white about ANYBODIES personality. we ALL have multiple personalities. not everyone gets to know all of them, and most people arent even aware they have them. they all blend in together making us who we are, but none of us are ONE person. some of us have more than others.. some people see that as being "fake" but every personality we have is OURS, every personality we have makes us who and what we are, and there is NOTHING wrong with that.

 

those different personalities that we ALL have are part of the reason we are so complex and difficult to figure out. because NONE of us are the same thing. If we were, relationships would be a lot easier to figure out, but a lot more boring.

 

none of us every really KNOWS anyone. there is no way for that to happen. not completely. most of us dont even know OURSELVES completely. if we did, we would never change our minds about anything.

 

my relationship with ben is a very complex and complicated one, as i'm sure A LOT of relationships are. there is drama in EVERY relationship. there has to be, and its not necessarily a BAD thing.

 

I have been feeling very sorry for myself and have been feeling very guilty about the way I treated him. I still do.. I fought with him the wrong way, and i knew better. there IS a part of me that IS very controlling, but that part does NOT define me as a person.

 

i've always tried to control my emotions.. not let them control me, but thats something much easier said than done. most people are controlled by their emotions. i try my hardest not to let that happen.. my name is not confusion. my name is not sadness. my name is not desperation. those things are feelings, they are NOT ME.

 

lately i have been letting myself be controlled by those feelings, and ben has too. thats the reason i keep saying him and i need to talk. I love him. thats one feeling i have defintely not let myself be controlled by being in love is a very scary thing. both people have to give up control over parts of their emotions if its going to work out. thats something thats been very hard for me to do.. its a very SCARY thing to do, but i do love him and i am willing to let go of that part. its what i MUST do in order for things to work. I know that. i've always known that. i have just never been willing to do it before because i have never been truly in love before. i've never let myself be.

 

there are still things that he DOES need to change and let go of as well. it has to be BOTH of us working it out together. it cant just be him and it cant just be me.

[RoxyGril]

You should be at least happy that you took the first step by realizing the issues and you just need to start looking at ways to change those bad habits. There are people out with the same type of issues and don't admit it at all and think that there's nothing wrong. So, you just have to look for ways on realizing when you do it and just stop before you do it and think of other ways to express your feelings. Though it doesn't happen over night it will take time. If you want to do counseling it's your choice and I am not telling you that you should do counseling. It should be if you feel like you need or if you can work on yourself without the help of a counsler.

 

I just finished reading this book about just living your life healthier and happier. It's called Love Your Life: Live happy, healthy & whole. It has actually helped me realize different ways to handle certain situations and how to be a better person not only towards other people but yourself as well. IDK if you are interested in that but it was just a thought/advice that I would share with you. This book has given a different point of view and ideas really how to work on my bad habits that I have.

[andomain]

I thank you for taking the time to read the WHOLE post.. i wasnt sure if anyone was going to.. i know it was a long one.

 

the way i always say that love is an addiction is in the way its very close to getting the same high you would get off of any other drug. you become addicted to the good feeling and the person causing the good feelings is the drug. thats a HUGE reason why its so difficult to end a relationship.. just like with any other drug, you have to wean yourself off of it.. it takes time, and there are usually relapses.

 

i think being addicted to any kind of DRUG is bad, but being addicted to the person you love can be a very good thing... or in some cases a very bad thing.

 

I know i've made myself out to be one of those people who are the no good abuser types.. but i really am not that person. i know the impression i have given of myself is not a good one, but there is A LOT to me. a lot more good than bad. if you knew me, you would know that.

 

i admitted something that i do believe a lot of people are guilty of, but dont address it. dont talk about it, or take blame for.

 

I am not the monster i have given the impression of being. you can call that denial if you wish, but posting on here was my way of getting everything out on the table where i could look at it, let others look at it, and learn from it.

 

i have taken full responsibility for the way i dealt with my relationship. i am no longer blaming myself, or him.. i blame us BOTH, and so does he.

 

its easy to talk about other peoples issues, and offer advice to them. its a lot harder to show your own demons.. the ugly side of ones self. a side that we ALL have, but for the most part choose to ignore.

 

thats what i'm doing on here. i'm not here to make anyone like me, or to take pity on me. i'm here to talk. friends and family are the best therapists in my opinion.. and strangers can be as well.

 

therapists can not figure out your problems for you. they are there to get you talk.. to open up, and by doing so you figure things out for yourself. they ask a lot of questions, but ultimately you are the one who has the answers, as deep down as they may be. they are inside YOU, not inside the therapist. if you give them an answer they write it down so they can ask another question. they are there to make you question yourself.. something i am fully capable of doing myself, but it helps to have others question me as well, and possibly come up with questions that i havent already asked myself.

 

thats why i'm here.

[andomain]

you're right, in situations like this it usually doesnt happen over night.. but it doesnt have to take a long time either. in my case, it has not taken long at all... although its been building up for years. i'm not saying i'm a CHANGED woman completely, but the cruelty that i inflict on boyfriends WILL stop. it seems so hard for people to believe me when i say that. I cant blame them for having doubts about it, but i know its true and thats all that really matters.

 

i also dont want to make it seem like i'm not listening to anyones advice.. i AM. i read every single thing people have said on here, and i think about it with an open mind.

[JadedStar]

there are still things that he DOES need to change and let go of as well. it has to be BOTH of us working it out together. it cant just be him and it cant just be me.

 

This is correct and this is the part of the equation you can't control. You might have reached some critical epiphonies, but you can't know where he is in his stage of growth and learning. It sounds like the very best thing to do is keep working on YOU for you, and not for the relationship or to get him back. I know you will say you are not doing it for that reason alone, but that reason should be on the backburner right now all together. your story sounds very familiar as I went thru something similar with an ex, and he did a lot of pleading and telling me of change and it was rather impressive the lengths he went to, and i told him he can't change to win me back and that it wasn't even JUST change that was necessary, we just were no longer compatible. And lo and behold when it was very painfully clear to him that no, i wasn't coming back, it seemed his speed and ferocity towards change just started to dwindle and he slipped back into status quo. This is something that even the strongest of people can find themselves facing. And a reason why most people who have gone thru what your ex has is NOT willing to take that chance. Just the slightest falter from you can crush him, and it isnt reasonable to expect a person will never falter. But that is the place you are in right now, it is what it is.

 

He needs a lot of time to mend and heal his wounds as well and I hate to say this as I know you don't want to hear it, but that would likely be far easier apart vs with you.

 

I am not sure why you are opposed to counseling, because even the strongest people I have known can and have benefited from it, but at the end of the day that decision is yours.

[lady00]

you're right, in situations like this it usually doesnt happen over night.. but it doesnt have to take a long time either. in my case, it has not taken long at all... although its been building up for years. i'm not saying i'm a CHANGED woman completely, but the cruelty that i inflict on boyfriends WILL stop. it seems so hard for people to believe me when i say that. I cant blame them for having doubts about it, but i know its true and thats all that really matters.

 

i also dont want to make it seem like i'm not listening to anyones advice.. i AM. i read every single thing people have said on here, and i think about it with an open mind.

 

I don't think it matters what other people think or what other people believe--it's about him. The question is: after having the experiences he has had with you, what will it take for him to believe you have truly changed? The catch 22 is that you need to show it with actions, but he may not let you get to that point because of fears caused by past experiences. I think that is how my ex feels right now. I've been trying to turn it around but it's tricky when you have past behavior working against you in their minds.

[JadedStar]

Outstanding reply all the way around. And right, love is NOT an addiction if someone is in a healthy frame of mind, and yes, this relationship she speaks of sounds very wrought with a lot of unnecessary drama. If she sees this still yet as an addiction even more reason to end it as it isnt healthy.

 

And i also agree with you that it was a choice made to treat him the way she did over his family interactions. We get ourselves into a real pickle when we blame outside forces for our actions, and until that is very obvious to the person who is healing, their healing will be delayed.

 

To the OP, you do sound more intense and focused on winning him back more than anything, and i think you are using that as the impetus to change more quickly...you might not even believe that at this time but I think that is a good part of it, and that should not be the reason for changing. Sure, the guilt helped get you to this place, but right now the change should be to make a better person out of yourself, not to win him back. Sometimes relationships end. And it isn't necessarily a bad thing.

[top bloke]

Well...you thought I gave up dont you? I am back. I have just read your latest posts. You are an interesting person. I see that he has was partly to blame for your anxiety in the relationship.

 

I am glad to see that you are reprimanding yourself for your behaviour. It is a good step..good on you. I have to agree that many times only you can solve your problems. Psycologist can be very over ratted. If you still love this guy then you can only fix your reaction to the problem and then adress the problem.Am I on the right track?

[andomain]

it really seems that most of the people on here are not listening to what i have been saying this whole time.

 

that very first email that i put up, the one where i "thought" i had everything figured out and blamed the whole thing on HIM, was what started this whole thing. after a few days of thinking about what i had just done by blaming him for everything. I realized i hadnt figured out a damn thing.. i had just made things worse by not taking any responsibility for any of it, but it was too late to take any of it back. it was a mistake. a mistake i admitted in the letter i sent him.

 

and yes LOVE IS an addiction. the same chemical process that takes place with addiction takes place when we fall in love. its a fact. look it up. might not sound very romantic but its true.

 

when you lose the person who made you feel good and we both did make each other feel good. there were moments of insanity, but we still loved each other and were happy together most of the time, but when you're forced to be without that person its NO different than going through withdrawals from a drug such as cocaine. People addicted to any kind of drug will do ANYTHING in order to get that drug back, to feel that "high" again. people, lie, cheat, steal and kill for it... People do the same thing for love, not everyone goes to those extremes, but its the same crazy, helpless, lonely feeling when its taken away. THAT is what i was referring to when i was talking about love being an addiction.

 

Yes, sometimes relationships do end... most of them DO end, but my relationship with ben SHOULDNT end. There is NOTHING that has happened that can not be mended, if we both talk to each other about it. no pride, on EITHER side, no hiding, no blaming, just talking.. REALLY talking. the RIGHT way.

 

if you love each other enough, and we do.. as "dramatic" as the emails may have sounded.. there is a lot more to our relationship than any of you can see...

 

just for the record, passion is not drama, and not all drama is bad drama, or unhealthy drama.

 

and its not "just about him" its about US. him and i together. fixing a problem we have both created together.

 

thank you top bloke, i think you might be understanding this a little better than the others..

 

i think thats a huge reason why people fight and break up. someone makes a move and the other reacts on that move. instead of taking the time to plan what their next ACTION should be, they "react" on the move that was just taken by the other person, without really thinking about it first. I reacted, when i should have acted, as i'm sure most people do. like i said before, its difficult not to let your emotions control your moves.

[JadedStar]

No, true and healthy love is NOT an addiction.

In the last decade, a lot has changed in the world of love addiction. Not that love addiction itself has changed. It is pretty much the same insidious disorder it always has been. What has changed is how the world looks at it. Twenty years ago, our understanding of love addiction was still emerging out of our understanding of codependency. Therefore, love addiction and codependency seemed to be one in the same. However, today we understand that this is not true. Love addiction stands alone, and codependency is only one of several underlying personality disorders. To make it perfectly clear how one love addict differs from another LAA has prepared the following list:

 

Obsessed Love Addicts (OLAs) cannot let go, even if their partners are:

 

Unavailable emotionally or sexually; afraid to commit; cannot communicate;unloving;distant; abusive; controlling and dictatorial; ego-centric; selfish; or addicted to something outside the relationship (hobbies, drugs, alcohol, sex, someone else, gambling, shopping etc.)

 

Codependent Love Addicts (CLAs) are the most widely recognized. They fit a pretty standard profile. Most of them suffer from low self-esteem and have a certain predictable way of thinking, feeling and behaving. This means that from a place of insecurity and low self-esteem, they try desperately to hold on to the people they are addicted to using codependent behavior. This includes enabling, rescuing, caretaking, passive-aggressive controlling, and accepting or attempting neglect or abuse.

 

Relationship Addicts (RAs), unlike other love addicts, are no longer in love with their partners but they cannot let go. Usually, they are so unhappy that the relationship is usually affecting their health, spirit and emotional well being. Even if their partner batters them, and they are in danger, they cannot let go. They are afraid of being alone. They are afraid of change. They do not want to hurt or abandon their partners. This can be described as “I hate you don’t leave me.

 

You and your ex both fall into the above categories.

 

Yes, sometimes relationships do end... most of them DO end, but my relationship with ben SHOULDNT end. There is NOTHING that has happened that can not be mended, if we both talk to each other about it. no pride, on EITHER side, no hiding, no blaming, just talking.. REALLY talking. the RIGHT way.

 

If Ben doesn't want this and you can't accept that, it becomes badgering.

 

To be honest to hear how you speak of this relationship, Ben might be afraid to come back. You sound pretty domineering and not accepting that maybe it is over and it doesn't sound very healthy.

[andomain]

I was NOT talking about being a "love addict" thats something one of your beloved "therapists" came up with. I was talking about the SCIENCE behind it. Neither ben or I are one of these so called "love addicts" thats plain silliness. forgive me, but this Susan peabody (author of typical kinds of love addicts) is putting the label "disorder" on something that is totally natural. EVERYTHING seems to be some sort of "disorder" these days doesnt it?

 

i just did a quick search.. this is not EXACTLY what I was talking about, but its pretty close.. its long and a little boring, so feel free not to read it.

 

 

Helen Fisher, an anthropologist at Rutgers University, has studied the science of love through fMRIs (functional magnetic resonance images). Indeed, she has discovered that love, specifically romance, is as real as the sex drive. In her words, “I had long thought that romantic love was an emotion. Now I think it’s a drive – as important as the maternal instinct or the sex drive. It comes from the parts of the brain associated with motivation. Romantic love is probably stronger than the sex drive. It’s harder to control. You can turn off the sexual urge, it’s very hard to turn off romantic love. In the grip of romantic love, you can commit suicide or homicide, or stalk somebody, or fall into an intense clinical depression.”

 

How real is it? Measurably real.

 

Science has blamed dopamine (a naturally-produced chemical that serves as a neurotransmitter in the brain, and a neurohormone released by the hypothalamus) for the ‘nuisance’ of love within human reality. It is believed to be responsible for all the dramas we go through within the clasp of romantic love. Fisher says, “When our subjects look at a photograph of their sweetheart, one of the main parts of the brain that lights up is the ventral tegmental area, a tiny little region that makes dopamine and sprays it around the brain. Dopamine is a natural stimulant. It gives you ecstasy. It gives you focused attention. It gives you motivation and goal-oriented behavior. It’s associated with arousal and, at very high levels, anxiety and fear. My hypothesis, which the fMRIs support, is that dopamine is the driving force behind the energy and arousal and attention that are all a part of love. Dopamine is also associated with all the addictions. When you take cocaine, dopamine soars. Alcohol, Nicotine, Morphine – they all elevate levels of dopamine.”

 

This discovery has incited both positive and negative responses. Unfortunately, the heavier side lies upon the negative response. How come? The way many people see it, “Love” seemed to have been reduced from the infinite heavens into the murky soil of the mundane Earth - due to this sudden dopamine-awareness.

 

People’s hopes for the bliss and eternal happiness that ‘only heaven knows of’ have now become some April Fool’s Day prank. Love has turned itself into a disgraceful characteristic; an animalistic, primitive trait that ought to be punished with humiliation. Like other instinctually-based traits, love, due to dopamine's presence, has become as barbaric and primeval as impulse – we have come to perceive it as something only animals give in to.

 

Moreover, the courage, creativity, and depth that stems out of love has suddenly become impersonal. We, humans, feel disconnected with the passion that yearns to erupt out of 'love', for suddenly, it seems like it doesn’t belong to us. It seems like we don’t belong to ourselves.

 

However, do realize that it is dangerous to base the truth from a single source, let alone a purely-objective field of study.

 

After all, ‘love’ is anything but objective. Henceforth, ‘love’ shall now be comprehended in an artistic manner.

 

Visualize placing ‘the truth/the real reality/the Universe’ upon the canvass of ‘Adobe Photoshop CS2’. What occurs at the beginning?

 

We have the canvass... Then, we lay out the foundations. These foundations shall funnel the depths of our intended piece. It is where the beauty of our work ultimately falls. It is where, when everything else is stripped off from the painting, this layer prevails – impenetrable and ceaselessly existent – no matter what disturbance taps upon it.

 

This is a logical perception of “fate”, or “truth”. Most significantly - of true love. Just what is this foundation? Why, it is the innermost state of being that occurs to a person whenever he/she is in the presence of his/her ‘soul counterpart’. In other words, it is that bliss which a person experiences in the midst of the person he/she loves most.

 

We, humans, might acknowledge it ("that rare state of being") as the mere outcome of dopamine release. But, may we please look beneath the dopamine? How can dopamine, first and foremost, extrude out of the hypothalamus? What triggers it? And what triggers that trigger?

 

It all ends up in the foundation, the first layer that has been “photoshopped”. It is not physical. It is not even chemical. What is it? Only the purest state, of course. Physical, when reduced, becomes chemical. Chemical, then, becomes spiritual. Spiritual, finally, endures as the existential.

 

What is the existential? It is the blank canvass. It was meant to just be there. To exist. Why? Because, some force out there seems too stricken with desire for this canvass. Some potent source of attraction seems to mean something for it. And of course, it does! It is meant to create the canvass into one, great, beautiful work of art. Until that force arrives, though, the canvass shall remain a canvass for eternity. It cannot die because it is the only IT.

 

Now this existential/spiritual state of being is responsible for the depth of a feeling, the breadth of a sentiment, the fire of a touch, the creativity borne out of a certain reactivity, and most importantly, the reason one has for existing. Though we, the surface layer, cannot see the root of all these, it seems we’re fated to just experience such things as human beings. And dopamine is actually just the second surface of the entire artwork.

[JadedStar]

Hey, good luck with your relationship. You are just too condescending to try to speak to. You have to realize why Ben might be hesitant to try this again...

[andomain]

I wasn't trying to be condescending!!!! I thought your post was a little insulting, so I decided to follow it up with additional information. to try to make my point a little more clear. Thats ALL i was doing. I wasn't insulting YOU. I was kind of insulting the author of what you posted, but i was NOT insulting you, or trying to be condescending in ANY way. I was just giving more information. thats all.

[andomain]

NONE of any of that has much to do with anything in the first place. You and i think a few others did not understand what i was saying about love being an addiction, so i thought i would try to clarify.

 

i feel like i'm trying to nail jello to a tree here...

 

I seem to be making people mad. that was not my intention at all, but most of you seem to have no problem harping on me for things I've already punished myself for. no matter what i say, i still feel like i'm not being heard, or understood.

 

ben is the EXACT same way when it comes to discussions. the more knowledge we have about different things, the better.

 

I'm discussing here.. I'm not trying to offend ANYONE.

[Zeitgeist]

andomain, everyone's advice here will be limited because none of us know you or Ben except from what we read in a few posts. And that's hardly enough to really understand who two people are or what their relationship is/was like. Thus, there probably will be some posts that don't quite perceive your situation "correctly". It's up to you to simply reject that advice by ignoring it. No need to comment about it because then everyone gets all defensive about it.

 

If you feel like you can get a handle on the situation and have enough control and insight over your actions and words, then I would agree with you, a therapist may be unnecessary. Still though, you need to have a bit of patience with this situation. You recognize that you put Ben through a lot. That's great and you should be proud of yourself for putting yourself through the introspection process. But you need to give this some time. While you may be ready to get back into a relationship, Ben does not appear to be. There's no guarantee he ever will, but time and space are your only friend here. If you keep pushing, he will keep running away.

 

If you haven't already, I would recommend that you make sure you are crystal clear that you recognize YOUR part in the failure of the relationship and exactly what those parts were. Do not ever try to "balance" things by pointing out his part. Leave that up to him. Apologize and tell him that you will give him some time to think about it and respect whatever decision he eventually makes. It's important that you communicate that you will not give him pressure to come back to you.

 

After that, you can at least be satisfied that you have done 100% of your 50%. That's ALL you can do. So if it doesn't work after that, you at least can know that you did your best. That's all any of us can do. Best of luck to you.