Cognitive_Canine Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 Holy crap... Well, you wouldn't want your doctors to have never worked with a human body. This was back before people donated their bodies to science. Medicine recently switched to the idea of practice being greater than theory but the rest of the world wasn't willing to give up their organs after death. Link to comment
Crazyaboutdogs Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 Are you equally passionate about the human abuses which occur around the world...have you stopped buying stuff from all the countries around the world who abuse humans? You should read up about the abuses of people as well and protest against that. Link to comment
jengh Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 and not to mention the poor chimps I really hate humans sometimes. Oh, I know!!! I can't handle it! It's such a horrible thing that your average person has NO idea about (and doesn't necessarily care to learn about either). Link to comment
Mavh25 Posted February 27, 2009 Author Share Posted February 27, 2009 oh good lord animal testing is worse, because the entire life of the animal is devoted to being tortured. at least with the raccoon its killed in about 5 minutes. horrible things they do.. like inject acids, pesticides, and anything you can think of, bleach, etc.. they inject it into the animals skin. or for instance they apply harsh chemicals to the animals skin and then wrap it so it doesnt evaporate. then they check to see how long it takes for the animals skin to disentegrate. Wow, that is shocking... I did'nt expect them to be all sweetness and light in the labs but you know I thought maybe they were more humane in their methods.. But that just sounds agonising. I am not grossed out by these things as such, I am not a squeamish person atall, its the suffering, the struggling, the crying and the helplessness which is so upsetting. Sounds the same in labs =( Link to comment
EQD Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 Back when med schools opened up, part of a students final exam was to dig up a body from a local graveyard to take the exam on. at least thats dealing with dead things. i have no problem with that. Link to comment
Cognitive_Canine Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 Are you equally passionate about the human abuses which occur around the world...have you stopped buying stuff from all the countries around the world who abuse humans? You should read up about the abuses of people as well and protest against that. I have a lot more compassion for animals than I do humans most of the time. Link to comment
jengh Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 Are you equally passionate about the human abuses which occur around the world...have you stopped buying stuff from all the countries around the world who abuse humans? You should read up about the abuses of people as well and protest against that. Absolutely. I'm very passionate about human welfare as well. After college, I plan on joining some sort of NPO (Peace Corps perhaps) to do as much good as I possibly can in the world. Link to comment
Mavh25 Posted February 27, 2009 Author Share Posted February 27, 2009 Are you equally passionate about the human abuses which occur around the world...have you stopped buying stuff from all the countries around the world who abuse humans? You should read up about the abuses of people as well and protest against that. Because I did'nt make a thread about humans I don't care about people? can you tell me what products we get from human bodies? Link to comment
Crazyaboutdogs Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 I'm not too educated on animal testing but I'm sure it's just as appalling. I always look to see if a product is "Not Tested on Animals" before I buy it. Just think of all the terrible things they pump into lab rats... giving them cancer, tumors, EARS...UGH No, it is not a pleasant sight...but if you want to protest against animals used in research then never take any kind of medications for the rest of your life...heart problems..well, just die young rather than take the medications. Link to comment
EQD Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 Wow, that is shocking... I did'nt expect them to be all sweetness and light in the labs but you know I thought maybe they were more humane in their methods.. But that just sounds agonising. I am not grossed out by these things as such, I am not a squeamish person atall, its the suffering, the struggling, the crying and the helplessness which is so upsetting. Sounds the same in labs =( i did alot of research on vivisection, what i found always shocked me. Esp. what they did to apes and monkeys. Look at some of the vids on that. and do some research. Link to comment
jengh Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 No, it is not a pleasant sight...but if you want to protest against animals used in research then never take any kind of medications for the rest of your life...heart problems..well, just die young rather than take the medications. See, that's where there's a Catch-22. I understand that testing is necessary in order to make medical advances. It also happens to rip me apart that there are no other options than to test on animals. Link to comment
Mavh25 Posted February 27, 2009 Author Share Posted February 27, 2009 Well, you wouldn't want your doctors to have never worked with a human body. This was back before people donated their bodies to science. Medicine recently switched to the idea of practice being greater than theory but the rest of the world wasn't willing to give up their organs after death. That makes a bit more sense though, if the body has already passed, that would be better in the animal world too, but I guess its not enough. Link to comment
EQD Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 See, that's where there's a Catch-22. I understand that testing is necessary in order to make medical advances. It also happens to rip me apart that there are no other options than to test on animals. there are actually many options available as an alternative to animal testing. and alot of times its much more accurate (think of how much a rat has in common with us) Link to comment
Crazyaboutdogs Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 See, that's where there's a Catch-22. I understand that testing is necessary in order to make medical advances. It also happens to rip me apart that there are no other options than to test on animals. I had to work with mice when I worked in the lab..I hated every minute of it. I understand the need to do the research but from a personal standpoint I could not handle doing it myself. I much preferred working with cell culture. Link to comment
jengh Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 there are actually many options available as an alternative to animal testing. and alot of times its much more accurate (think of how much a rat has in common with us) If there is more accurate, alternative way then for god's sake quit the animal testing when able to! Link to comment
Mavh25 Posted February 27, 2009 Author Share Posted February 27, 2009 Just because people say the way things are tested is wrong does'nt mean we are saying everyone should stop medication. I can understand eating animals for survival, this was mainly about abuse which is unnecessary. Link to comment
Crazyaboutdogs Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 there are actually many options available as an alternative to animal testing. and alot of times its much more accurate (think of how much a rat has in common with us) For drug research animal testing is still the most reliable. A lot of information has been obtained from using rats and mice in medical research. Link to comment
Mavh25 Posted February 27, 2009 Author Share Posted February 27, 2009 I say test on murderers and rapists etc. Personally. Link to comment
EQD Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 For drug research animal testing is still the most reliable. A lot of information has been obtained from using rats and mice in medical research. this is true. but now we have computer based programs. and i dont remember exactly what but the same thing that killed rats in lab cured cancer in humans. or was it vice versa? i hate talking about things i forgot the details of... imo, we should use participating humans. its not fair that we should let animals bleed for cures to our diseases. Link to comment
jengh Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 I say test on murderers and rapists etc. Personally. Second this. Link to comment
Crazyaboutdogs Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 I say test on murderers and rapists etc. Personally. Many drugs and devices are indeed tested on people..just every day law -abiding people. They are involved in clinical trials..and they have to sign informed consent documents. Link to comment
Cognitive_Canine Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 That makes a bit more sense though, if the body has already passed, that would be better in the animal world too, but I guess its not enough. Well, dead bodies still have the same anatomy. I am talking centuries ago when we had seriously little clue. However, for reactions, you need a living organism. Link to comment
lila... Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 Are you equally passionate about the human abuses which occur around the world...have you stopped buying stuff from all the countries around the world who abuse humans? You should read up about the abuses of people as well and protest against that. The truth is, as cold as this sounds, I don't feel as compasssionate about human suffering as I do animals. I just can't compare the kind of suffering animals have to endure to human suffering. And the way I look at it, animals are poor, defenseless creatures who really have noone to look out for them. At least with people, everyone knows what is going on and there are sooo many organizations dedicated to human welfare, etc. You really can't compare it to the kind of suffering animals have to go through- being skinned alive, electrocuted, forced to live in cages, just for OUR sake. That's just as worse as you can get when it comes to suffering. Link to comment
Mavh25 Posted February 27, 2009 Author Share Posted February 27, 2009 Well, dead bodies still have the same anatomy. I am talking centuries ago when we had seriously little clue. However, for reactions, you need a living organism. Ah yeah course, I meant for like fur and stuff, but for testing yeah I guess they need to be living. CAD, do lots of people die in clinical trials? thats a serious question, I have no idea. We treat animals like they were placed here for our use, and whatever purpose we want them for. That is pretty awful to be honest. But I don't know, does that counteract with the fact that I think to eat animals for surivial ONLY is ok? I had this same argument with my guy afew months ago, I can't remember what conclusion we came to. We got pretty mad at eachother though lol Link to comment
Cognitive_Canine Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 Many drugs and devices are indeed tested on people..just every day law -abiding people. They are involved in clinical trials..and they have to sign informed consent documents. Rogaine was orginally a heart medication, until all the women test subjects grew mustaches. Before it is released on the market or circulation, it is tested with people. Same with medical procedures. However, this is usually the last step before approval because they want to make as least dangerous as possible. Link to comment
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