Kissing a complete stranger in under 12 minutes.

[Luke Skywalker]

Oh I see. Is there something wrong with that?

 

Yeah there is, because it compromises a simple approach that you are trying to address here into some complex game. Make believing you are something that you are not and that you have something economic to offer a girl doesn't sit very well as an authentic approach. First of all, you have to genuinely experience some measure of success for that approach to work. Not everyone reading this has that status and will come accross very phoney pulling a high-value card.

 

There is also the other element that, this particular game is an old type of game. Just rent an office set-up, have some business cards that show you are a president of a company, and start acting like a big-shot, and that's like an oldest game of showing status. I personally don't like it because it's too superficial for my taste and I'm a very modest person that wants someone to appreciate 'me' for 'me', not be looking for the highest bidder or wanting you for what material things you could offer them. I guess it doesn't jive with me, or I wouldn't show that enthusiasm where it would seem real to me if I tried using that card.

[JadedStar]

You are very right Luke in that a modest man will look foolish in this type of game and I do not advise him to even try it because I think it would be dishonest.....that guy in the video should be in sales, seriously (I am sure he already is). For a guy who is not an innate salesman, he should leave those tactics alone.

[Nutz]

It's funny when people call stuff in pickup "tactics" or "being dishonest" when all it really is is what women do to men, but some guys have learned to flip the script, so to speak. A good deal of pickup "tactics" are things guys have learned from girlfriends, sisters, and female friends.

[JadedStar]

It's funny when people call stuff in pickup "tactics" or "being dishonest" when all it really is is what women do to men, but some guys have learned to flip the script, so to speak. A good deal of pickup "tactics" are things guys have learned from girlfriends, sisters, and female friends.

 

Ah, mr nutz is once again speaking for an entire gender.

 

Unbeknownst to you there are still a great deal of honest people in the world who don't resort to 'tactics'.

 

Maybe try it?

[CaptainPlanet]

Oh I see. Is there something wrong with that?

 

uumm yes, yes there is. Pretty low tactic in my opinion. Not good advice. 'Offer girls a job then they will sleep with you'. I like to think a little higher of women.

[JadedStar]

uumm yes, yes there is. Pretty low tactic in my opinion. Not good advice. 'Offer girls a job then they will sleep with you'. I like to think a little higher of women.

 

Gee this is scary. Twice in one week we agree.

[Nutz]

Ah, mr nutz is once again speaking for an entire gender.

 

Unbeknownst to you there are still a great deal of honest people in the world who don't resort to 'tactics'.

 

Maybe try it?

 

No thanks. They're called AFCs and have to post on message boards for relationship advice. I shirked that way of life a long time ago by opening my mind to new ways of thinking. Now I'm the one giving advice.

 

Love it or leave it, women are attracted to certain male behaviors (for the most part). If you know how to integrate those behaviors into your life you'll be far more successful with women than doing the same things you've always done and wondering why you don't have the successes you wish you did.

[JadedStar]

No thanks. They're called AFCs and have to post on message boards for relationship advice. I shirked that way of thinking a long time ago by opening my mind to new ways of thinking. Now I'm the one giving advice.

 

Love it or leave it, women are attracted to certain male behaviors (for the most part). If you know how to integrate those behaviors into your life you'll be far more successful with women than doing the same things you've always done and wondering why you don't have the successes you wish you did.

 

I agree that if the same things you have always done don't work, change them. I do not agree that resorting to sleazy car salesman tactics are the gold ring.

[Nutz]

I agree that if the same things you have always done don't work, change them. I do not agree that resorting to sleazy car salesman tactics are the gold ring.

 

There are some shadier things in pickup, no doubt. But it's all in how it's used. Some guys use this stuff for one night stands, and more power to them IMO since it takes two to tango. But a lot of guys get into it just to finally have a chance and finding Mrs. Right. I'm not one to judge either practice as each free to live their own life as they see fit. So long as you're honest and up front about what you want from the relationship, more power to you.

[Luke Skywalker]

You are very right Luke in that a modest man will look foolish in this type of game and I do not advise him to even try it because I think it would be dishonest.....that guy in the video should be in sales, seriously (I am sure he already is). For a guy who is not an innate salesman, he should leave those tactics alone.

 

I'm also a salesman, but usually don't act my part since I'm quiet most of the time.

[Luke Skywalker]

uumm yes, yes there is. Pretty low tactic in my opinion. Not good advice. 'Offer girls a job then they will sleep with you'. I like to think a little higher of women.

 

That's the backbone of his tactic there. So, I guess it only works on women who don't have a job, or don't have a good job.

[JadedStar]

I'm also a salesman, but usually don't act my part since I'm quiet most of the time.

 

LOL its ok to sell real estate luke.

[ProtestTheHero]

I don't think it's all that impressive scoring women that fall for this stuff, to be quite honest. That says more about her, IMO. I wouldn't call myself an average frustrated chump. I have meaningful interaction with people, and I honestly couldn't give a damn whether or not I'm leaning in at the right time, recognizing IOI's, or whatever. In the course of that conversation if I pick up that we mesh, I ask her out. What I don't understand is why this is so embellished, why everything is so exaggerated when honestly if you just open your mouth and speak like a normal human being you run into very few problems unless you are in the bottom percent of knowing how to converse with people.

 

That's what I don't understand...why is all this necessary? Why the gimmick?

[JadedStar]

I don't think it's all that impressive scoring women that fall for this stuff, to be quite honest. That says more about her, IMO. I wouldn't call myself an average frustrated chump. I have meaningful interaction with people, and I honestly couldn't give a damn whether or not I'm leaning in at the right time, recognizing IOI's, or whatever. In the course of that conversation if I pick up that we mesh, I ask her out. What I don't understand is why this is so embellished, why everything is so exaggerated when honestly if you just open your mouth and speak like a normal human being you run into very few problems unless you are in the bottom percent of knowing how to converse with people.

 

That's what I don't understand...why is all this necessary? Why the gimmick?

 

What i don't understand is why the ones who think the vid is the best thing since sliced cheese can't admit it is a gimmick and almost seem to take offense at the suggestion.

[Nutz]

I don't think it's all that impressive scoring women that fall for this stuff, to be quite honest. That says more about her, IMO. I wouldn't call myself an average frustrated chump. I have meaningful interaction with people, and I honestly couldn't give a damn whether or not I'm leaning in at the right time, recognizing IOI's, or whatever. In the course of that conversation if I pick up that we mesh, I ask her out. What I don't understand is why this is so embellished, why everything is so exaggerated when honestly if you just open your mouth and speak like a normal human being you run into very few problems unless you are in the bottom percent of knowing how to converse with people.

 

That's what I don't understand...why is all this necessary? Why the gimmick?

 

I think you're looking at it from the wrong perspective then. It's not about "scoring women that fall for this stuff". Generally speaking, women are all wired the same way and it pretty much works accross the board. You just have to find out the nuances of that woman to see what works most effectively. And what it really all boils down to is stripping away the choady aspects of your personality and bolstering the good parts. Basically making you a more presentable male and putting your best foot forward. You're still who you are, you're just advertising in a more effective manner based on what women find attractive. Nobody is saying change who you are and lie your way into her panties. It's a common misconception, but it's completely false once you take a closer look at what's going on under the hood.

[Salucious]

I don't think it's all that impressive scoring women that fall for this stuff, to be quite honest. That says more about her, IMO. I wouldn't call myself an average frustrated chump. I have meaningful interaction with people, and I honestly couldn't give a damn whether or not I'm leaning in at the right time, recognizing IOI's, or whatever. In the course of that conversation if I pick up that we mesh, I ask her out. What I don't understand is why this is so embellished, why everything is so exaggerated when honestly if you just open your mouth and speak like a normal human being you run into very few problems unless you are in the bottom percent of knowing how to converse with people.

 

That's what I don't understand...why is all this necessary? Why the gimmick?

 

Amen, brother. Ever since people like Mystery or Neil Strauss have come forward with their methods, people have started to think that it is the "correct" way to meet and get women. Personally, I think gaining confidence and simply practicing talking to women is all you need. So what if these guys can pick up women left and right with their tactics; it isn't my intention to hook up with as many women as possible. I really just want to meet a nice girl to have a relationship with, and I don't need tactics to meet her. Nobody needed these tactics before now, they still met girlfriends/wives even if it took longer for some more than others to find their confidence/approach. If I meet a girl and be my most confident self, and there is chemistry/attraction, it will happen. NOBODY has all the answers, and those who think they do are kidding themselves that they can explain women.

 

I think the thing I don't like about these types of tactics is that they are meant to be practiced so well that you can pick up "any woman" when I can't imagine that "any woman" would be compatible with you for a relationship, which again contributes to the idea that these tactics are used to simply get women in bed, and move onto the next woman. That is not what I'm about and it isn't what I want. If it is for some guys, then by all means, use those tactics. It seems like it would only work on the kind of girls who are ok with one-night stands and " * * * * buddies" which any classy woman would not be about. But it has become clearer to me that these types of tactics are for womanizers and players only. There may be some things to learn from them with regards to flirting and confidence, but the intended results are very conceited and demeaning to women, I think.

[Nutz]

Fully agree. However, what you're calling tactics are just shortcuts to the learning process of what you're talking about. At the end of the process you *should* be a natural where you can put the training wheels away. I strongly suggest listening to the first 5-10 episodes here:

 

link removed

 

They're much more eloquent than I could ever be in a written format.

[galaxy71]

I admit that the video is a little cheesy as hell. I think the guy spends too much time talking about tactics and techniques versus teaching guys basic social skills. However, I don't understand how learning to flirt and learning how to leading a interaction is not helpful for attracting a "classy" woman for a long-term relationship. A lot of guys "practice" their social skills but go nowhere because they keep on making the same mistakes over and over again. I don't see how telling a girl that she is cute or talking about the TV show Seinfeld is only helpful for players and womanizers.

 

These tactics and techniques are training wheels for social interaction. Once you understand the principle behind the training wheels, you can take them off and be your most confident, best, self. With all that said, I admit that some of the people in the pickup artists are sleazebags and womanizers. Some of them are obsessed with one-night stands and casual sex over relationships. However, they do teach social skills. Not only do they teach social skills, but they actually try to make their advice as specific and practical as possible.

 

I don't understand why people who oppose the pick up artists don't give detailed, specific, practical advice on social skills. I don't understand why you, and some of the woman in this forum don't give advice breaking down the mechanics of conversation and flirting. I don't know why you and some of the other critics of the pickup artist in this thread don't talk about how you can beat PUAs at their own game by teaching guys how to interact with women without using tactics and techniques.

 

Here are ways of interacting with women without having to resort to tactics and techniques. Simple things like asking open ended questions or talking about your day or your hobbies and interests rather than asking invasive, nosy questions. Instead of providing an alternative to these players, you just shoot down their advice without presenting an alternative. Where is the talk about flirting by complimenting someone on their personality instead of relying on cocky and funny humor? Why don't people who oppose the community give the type of advice offered in this website removed[/i]

 

Do you really find it confident and sexy when some stranger goes up to you and start pounding you with questions? I believe that the reason why pickup artists are so popular is the fact that society has failed to teach social skills to a large segment of the population. There are no classes on flirting or conversation in high school or college. I don't see girls going up to guys and telling him "Dude, my friend liked you. Why didn't you try to kiss her? She was getting bored with all those interview questions". I also don't see random people running up to guys and correcting the guy's posture as he is talking to some girl he likes. Instead of providing instruction, the critics of the pickup community give vague advice about being yourself and just being confident.

 

Not only do some people give vague advice regarding pickup, but I have noticed unhelpful advice about how women only care about looks or money. I think talking about how women only care about looks or money is just as harmful as basing one's self-esteem on how many women he has slept with.

[JadedStar]

No thanks. They're called AFCs and have to post on message boards for relationship advice. I shirked that way of life a long time ago by opening my mind to new ways of thinking. Now I'm the one giving advice.

 

Love it or leave it, women are attracted to certain male behaviors (for the most part). If you know how to integrate those behaviors into your life you'll be far more successful with women than doing the same things you've always done and wondering why you don't have the successes you wish you did.

 

 

So i suggest honesty and you say "no thanks".

 

Nothing more needs to be said about this one. I hope the people you are giving advice to realize that you are not about honesty so that at least they know what they are getting into.

[Nutz]

A-freaking-men!

[galaxy71]

So i suggest honesty and you say "no thanks".

 

Nothing more needs to be said about this one. I hope the people you are giving advice to realize that you are not about honesty so that at least they know what they are getting into.

 

Ummm, you think you are being honest when you refuse to tell guys how to interact with women without resorting to tactics and techniques. I have never seen you make a single post on how to be a good listener or how to be a good conversationalist. When I see posts like yours, I wonder whether some of the women in this forum are more concerned about maintaining their power in dating versus teaching guys how to interact with women without using tactics and tehcniques. If you were about teaching guys on how to interact with women without using dishonesty and tactics, you would be talking about how you can build a connection with people you just meant by talking about yourself and being a good listener.

 

Why are you so judgemental about other people's advice? All you do is talk about being confident, without telling people how to be confident. What the hell do confident guys talk about? Since you are silent on how guys should be confident, I assume that you think it's OK to go up to strangers and ask them dozens of invasive, nosy, interview questions. How do you feel if a stranger approaches you and starts asking you questions like "What is your name?", "What do you do for a living", "What are your hobbies and interests", without talking about himself. The fact that you are silent on this issue speaks volumes about your motivation in criticizing pickup artist methods.

[Dating Coach]

But you're still suggesting that men should be less reserved, right?

 

Everyone would like to be able to express themselves. Who would take the stance of "I don't want people to be able to understand what I want and feel." That statement in itself is like a double negative.

 

That's fine, but where's the line between letting yourself loose and misrepresenting yourself in order to get girls?

 

This statement doesn't really make sense to me. Why is "letting yourself out" even coming near to "misrepresenting yourself"? Think about it. If you are letting yourself out, how can you be misrepresenting yourself?

 

I'm a reserved person by nature, and if I did something LIKE THAT, even if it wasn't exactly that, I think it wouldn't really be me.

 

Here is where you are wrong. You're shy and inexperienced with expressing yourself openly and confidently. That's not who you are, that's your ability to express yourself. If you suddenly were capable of expressing what it is you really want and think... all you are doing is letting the true you out. People will find seeing the "true you" much easier. This makes you more of a person in their eyes, as they get to see "you" as opposed to the guy who keeps everything hidden and goes along with others.

[Dating Coach]

That is not what I saw Diggity. Her body language did say that in my opinion. This girl was trying to get a job in a resort.

 

Maybe you missed her legs and torso turning in to face him with their proximity very close together. Perhaps you missed that she did not withdraw when he moved closer. Perhaps you missed after the kiss that she leaned in towards him more, was playing with her hair, was smiling, etc. She was digging him clearly.

 

Heck, if you missed everything else you couldn't have missed that she didn't blow up on him, yell at him, run away, or even smack him... with anything but her lips that is. That alone should tell you she dug him.

[JadedStar]

Ummm, you think you are being honest when you refuse to tell guys how to interact with women without resorting to tactics and techniques. I have never seen you make a single post on how to be a good listener or how to be a good conversationalist. When I see posts like yours, I wonder whether some of the women in this forum are more concerned about maintaining their power in dating versus teaching guys how to interact with women without using tactics and tehcniques. s.

 

Then I think you need to GO BACK and read some of my posts and contributions to this forum for the past year. I have touched on ways to be confident, ways for men to approach women, ways for women to approach men, etc and that is not even to mention the countless private messages I have shared with people who chose to ask me questions privately, on this topic and many others. You obviously do not know what you are talking about.

 

Your statement above I bolded is VERY uninformed. You obviously do not know me or what I contribute or help people out with. You come here and write a few posts that are one sided and in my opinion harmful not helpful to guys who really need help with women and then attack my posts when you don't even know what I have posted about in the past. I don't care if you agree with me, but i surely won't stop attempting to help others becuase you don't like my content. I find it very insulting that you would go on to say When I see posts like yours, I wonder whether some of the women in this forum are more concerned about maintaining their power in dating as if all women who posted on this topic do exactly the same thing. I believe most women do not believe they have "the" power in the dating arena in the first place.

 

You are pounding on your chest in he-man fashion but I don't see where the information for the most poart on this thread is useful, mostly harmful, to the men who really want help on succeeding with talking to women.

 

It is very funny that you ask me why I am judgemental about advice, yet you have judged not only my posts on this thread but my posts as a whole. Your statement about never having seen me make a single post on how to be a good listener wasn't an insulting judgement? Not only was it a judgement, it's totally false. You read a couple of my posts on this thread and then pretended to act like you know how much I have tried to help others in the area of conversational skills and confidence. I do not see the value in that judgement.

[Dating Coach]

Yeah there is, because it compromises a simple approach that you are trying to address here into some complex game. Make believing you are something that you are not and that you have something economic to offer a girl doesn't sit very well as an authentic approach.

 

If he was lying I would agree with you. If he really did have connections then what is wrong with that?

 

There is also the other element that, this particular game is an old type of game. Just rent an office set-up, have some business cards that show you are a president of a company, and start acting like a big-shot, and that's like an oldest game of showing status. I personally don't like it because it's too superficial for my taste and I'm a very modest person that wants someone to appreciate 'me' for 'me', not be looking for the highest bidder or wanting you for what material things you could offer them.

 

I see what you are saying to an extent but not completely convinced either. I think it is a good thing to know that a potential person of interest is a "go getter" and enjoys the success of hard work. Now I am not saying that it's okay for a guy to walk around saying, "Hey, I am making 6 figures ladies!" but if you want to give out your number and you have a business card with your contact information then why not hand it out? Not only are you giving your contact information but you are showing that you are a person who has their sh_t together. That's a good thing.

 

If you will reject or devalue a girl/guy who is jobless and lazy then why is it wrong to value someone or give them an extra chance because they are successful?