Dating Coach Posted October 31, 2008 Author Share Posted October 31, 2008 OK, you are right about guys like me bashing methods like in the video. I think it is just frustrating that there are guys at such a higher level of social proof than me. He makes it look easy in the video, a little too easy. And it was easy for him. BUT, do you think it was ALWAYS easy for him? No. Usually... almost ALWAYS if a guy has broken down the stages of meeting and approaching a girl like this... it's because at one point he had no idea how to do it and had to learn. ALL of the guys I know who naturally were good with women scoff at guys who have to learn. They don't make sense scoffing at these guys, because not everyone is born with a natural gift and thus it makes sense to develope it. They (the naturally gifted guys) just don't get it because it's never been an issue for them. I've yet to meet a guy who's a natural with women who understands the subtlety of attraction. They just do it. The point is that this guy is almost certainly a guy who once was terrible but took it upon himself to learn. I'm basing it on how much effort he's put into learning about it all. If he was naturally gifted this wasn't a necessary skill to put so much work into. Thus at one point, it wasn't easy for him. It appears to be NOW, because he kept an open mind and was willing to try. I think the real challenge to making something like that work (or even something less forward than the kiss) is how you present it, which is most likely tied to your self-image. You can't really teach someone that, it has to come from within. I agree... but not the same way you mean. It does come from within... but not as in "natural ability with women" but from within as in their open mindedness and willingness to LEARN. Some guys just don't have it within them to actually make a real effort. Instead they may choose to close all doors and wallow in self pity or maybe to place blame elsewhere, etc. It takes a special something from within to be able to discard what you once thought to be true and open up to a new world of possibilities. I think that is what is so frustrating for me, personally. It is kind of a catch-22, in that I want to be that skilled socially, but even trying that takes the kind of self-esteem I have yet to achieve. Start as small as you have to. Just start. Think about what is difficult to you and then go backwards stage after stage until you get to a situation you think you just might be able to handle. Then do that over and over until it's easy. Then take a step forward to the next stage. Only you know where that beginning is. I think if I had friends that were like this guy, I could have a much better chance at improving my social skills with girls. But in fact, the only friend that I hang out with on a regular basis is the most self-depreciating person I've ever met, even though he does have several girlfriends they never really work out. Perhaps you should take up some kind of active hobby or sport, like volleyball or something to make new friends. I am not saying you should ditch your old friends but just increase or broaden your social network. I'm not completely blaming my lack of social proof on this, but I think maybe if I had more socially-skilled friends growing up in high-school/college I may have stood a better chance. But I've never really had a reference point to work from. I'm giving you one. Maybe it's this video. Maybe it's my posts. Maybe it's another poster. Regardless of what it is, you are as of this very second receiving new information for consideration. That's the beginning. I REALLY wish I had a mentor, lol. I wish I did too. The entire reason I come to these types of forums is because I never had the guidence. I had to learn all of this on my own. I never had PUA, I never had a poster break things down, etc. I had to go out and study people on my own. I had to find guys who were successful and I had to compare what they were doing to what I was doing. I finally started finding "professional" assistance by reading articles on link removed posted by "Doc Love". I still think Doc is more of a relationship coach than a PUA guy. Actually I know he is not a PUA type, but there are still a lot of similarities because it all comes down to how you carry yourself and present yourself through actions and strength. Link to comment
Stinkweed Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 Maybe one day I'll be bothered enough to start working on my own social skills. Until then, just seeing that it can be done is pretty cool, though. Link to comment
Dating Coach Posted October 31, 2008 Author Share Posted October 31, 2008 Maybe one day I'll be bothered enough to start working on my own social skills. Until then, just seeing that it can be done is pretty cool, though. Sometimes "seeing it done" is the final barrier that needs to be smashed in order to get a guy to finally give change a chance. I am not necessarily saying "be this guy" but to just see that it can be done and try to learn. Although, I watched that vid again last night and He really didn't do anything half as bad as the women on here try to suggest. Nothing was really a big deal at all. Link to comment
Stinkweed Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 Sometimes "seeing it done" is the final barrier that needs to be smashed in order to get a guy to finally give change a chance. I am not necessarily saying "be this guy" but to just see that it can be done and try to learn. Although, I watched that vid again last night and He really didn't do anything half as bad as the women on here try to suggest. Nothing was really a big deal at all. yes, I know you're not sayin "try to be this guy." I read your first post here with all the disclaimers. Plus, why be someone you're not? This guy's doing things his way. I'd do things my way. I guess the key concept is confidence and experience/advanced social skills. Link to comment
grymoire Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 Hi... this is a very good post... and I especially agree with the below: The average guy will try to hide the fact that he likes or is interested in a girl and will buy her gifts to get her to spend time with him, now that is deceitful and dishonest, they don't have the balls to go about telling the girl how it is and how it's going to go down, that is being direct and honest in a confident way, you can't fault a girl for liking someone like that, it's better than getting the average guy biting at your heels trying to get your attention. Link to comment
Nutz Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 I've made out with women within 10 seconds of meeting them. It's fun and flighty, but it's not tight game. In fact kissing too soon is the fast track to buyer's remorse and flakesville. Link to comment
Nutz Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 I have some strong opinions about all these websites popping up telling me how to seduce women. If you have to put on a show just to get some women to sleep with you, then you are really denying your true self, and just for sex !!! If you are such a low life that you can't get a girlfriend without resorting to special techniques, my advice would be to stay away from women and don't break thier hearts, get out some porn, and have fun wacking off to it. Don't waste your time breaking women's hearts - Seriously.......much better just to wack off than to destroy someone else's life. There are no "special techniques". All pickup really is is a broken down approach to courtship. Once you understand the natural phases men and women go through, and the objectives you need to meet to move on to the next stage, you can really turbocharge your social skills. What it all boils down to is learning to flirt. Not everyone is raised to have on-par social savvy. Pickup is a very good method of learning that. Link to comment
grymoire Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 On a separate note Diggity the following is a good example of why some men are reluctant to approach women. The 2 posts below are from women in a thread here in ENA. I don't want to drop names but just using it as an example here: I'm not a mean person, but I can't stand guys checking me out or hitting on me at all. Same here, I get so incredibly pissed. LOL whoa there... can both of you plz explain why? no wonder lot of guys, shy guys in particualr tend to hesitate a LOT before approaching women. Link to comment
Dating Coach Posted October 31, 2008 Author Share Posted October 31, 2008 Gry, you have to understand what context they were referring to. Maybe when the topic was discussed they were imagining a construction worker whistling at them as opposed to a well groomed friendly man introducing himself. If a woman was actually walking around with the attitude of "Nobody talk to me!" then that's their problem for being like that. It's going to hurt them in the end and not me. But I think women like this are rare. Link to comment
grymoire Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 Gry, you have to understand what context they were referring to. Maybe when the topic was discussed they were imagining a construction worker whistling at them as opposed to a well groomed friendly man introducing himself. If a woman was actually walking around with the attitude of "Nobody talk to me!" then that's their problem for being like that. It's going to hurt them in the end and not me. But I think women like this are rare. No. They are not talking about cat calls. They were referring to being hit on by men. And its like 2 women in the same thread... I guess there are many more like this. Link to comment
Dating Coach Posted October 31, 2008 Author Share Posted October 31, 2008 No. They are not talking about cat calls. They were referring to being hit on by men. And its like 2 women in the same thread... I guess there are many more like this. I seriously don't believe that. I am sure by talking to them I can find many approaches a guy could use to "hit on" them and not be annoying them. When they said that I almost guarantee they had a specific type of approach in mind rather than any guy who would talk to them. And if the odd chance was that they do hate any guy hitting on them no matter which way they do it... then who cares what they think? That's not the norm and it's.... weird. Link to comment
grymoire Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 I seriously don't believe that. I am sure by talking to them I can find many approaches a guy could use to "hit on" them and not be annoying them. When they said that I almost guarantee they had a specific type of approach in mind rather than any guy who would talk to them. And if the odd chance was that they do hate any guy hitting on them no matter which way they do it... then who cares what they think? That's not the norm and it's.... weird. I understand Diggity.... the best thing to do in such cases is just NEXT and move on to the next female... I just brought it up as a possible reason for some guys having the fear to approach women... Nobody wants to be treated in a nasty way.. Link to comment
Luke Skywalker Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 I must have missed something. He said he was a High Level Executive? He had something to offer the girl in terms of employment opportunity or connections -- or offered something that she was looking for or wanted - that's a high-value card. Link to comment
Breaker Posted November 1, 2008 Share Posted November 1, 2008 Wow, can a person look any more desperate and creepy then he did in that video. Seriously, if I was the chick I would be thinking this guy was some sort of rapist or something. I would never do something like this, nor would I ever need to. Link to comment
Stinkweed Posted November 1, 2008 Share Posted November 1, 2008 Wow, can a person look any more desperate and creepy then he did in that video. Seriously, if I was the chick I would be thinking this guy was some sort of rapist or something. I would never do something like this, nor would I ever need to. People who're desperate and "creepy" have no composure, because, well, they're desperate. This guy was patient, very well-spoken, and even offered the lady several opportunities to leave if she so wanted to. Besides, all of this happened in public places. I'm just sayin, maybe in real life you wouldn't think he's so creepy. Heck the guy doesn't even LOOK creepy. To me he looks healthy, well-groomed, and well-dressed too. Link to comment
Breaker Posted November 1, 2008 Share Posted November 1, 2008 People who're desperate and "creepy" have no composure, because, well, they're desperate. This guy was patient, very well-spoken, and even offered the lady several opportunities to leave if she so wanted to. Besides, all of this happened in public places. I'm just sayin, maybe in real life you wouldn't think he's so creepy. Heck the guy doesn't even LOOK creepy. To me he looks healthy, well-groomed, and well-dressed too. Rapist and serial killers usually look this part, as well as having composure and being calm. Just sayin... Link to comment
Stinkweed Posted November 2, 2008 Share Posted November 2, 2008 Rapist and serial killers usually look this part, as well as having composure and being calm. Just sayin... And still, the serial rapist/killer would try to drag you into an alley or somewhere private. But I guess to each their own. I still think that until it actually happens to you, you shouldn't be so quick to dismiss. Just like people who think they'd be the hero if the were present during a bank robbery, but when it really happens, all they do is something that makes them end up needing a change of underwear. That girl looked like she was taken by surprise and at first seemed to be confused, but she definitively didn't think he was creepy especially towards the end. I think the guy was real bold and that should be looked as a very courageous, especially from a girl's point of view, considering guys are the ones that do all of the work already, but this guy went an extra 10-miles and he did it in good form. Link to comment
Salucious Posted November 2, 2008 Share Posted November 2, 2008 Well it is hard to say that he was a success unless we knew what happen afterward, if he actually went on a date with her or not; otherwise it is tantamount to making out with a drunk girl in a dank bar. Link to comment
Mantis Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 I just watched the video and read the whole topic, I hope I'm not too late to ask some questions. First, even with all the commentary, I don't fully understand what he did, or rather, why he did so well. Was it because he was so aggressive? Second, you keep stressing body language. Now I'm not saying you're wrong, but that doesn't help me. It's entirely too vague. Like there was a comment on the video, "her body language indicates she's interested" or something like that. How could he tell that? What was she doing? I'm not doubting him, I just don't get how he knew. Next, while I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with what he did, I don't think I'd be able to emulate it. I'm a pretty laid back guy by nature, and I think I'd be misrepresenting myself if I was that aggressive. I don't want that to seem like an excuse, I actually have approached a few girls recently, but I was much more low key about it. And from a practical standpoint, what happens later on when she finds out I'm not really as forward as her first impression? Or do I have to act like that all the time? And finally, what if I can't think on my feet? This isn't a social issue, I just don't think very fast in general. Link to comment
Dating Coach Posted November 3, 2008 Author Share Posted November 3, 2008 He had something to offer the girl in terms of employment opportunity or connections -- or offered something that she was looking for or wanted - that's a high-value card. Oh I see. Is there something wrong with that? Link to comment
Dating Coach Posted November 3, 2008 Author Share Posted November 3, 2008 Rapist and serial killers usually look this part, as well as having composure and being calm. Just sayin... Just saying? No, that's just ridiculous. Why would you even say this? Link to comment
Dating Coach Posted November 3, 2008 Author Share Posted November 3, 2008 Was it because he was so aggressive? He wasn't that aggressive. Bold is a better term. He was indifferent when she brought up having to leave. He let her decide to come with him, he didn't push her to come. Second, you keep stressing body language. Now I'm not saying you're wrong, but that doesn't help me. It's entirely too vague. Like there was a comment on the video, "her body language indicates she's interested" or something like that. How could he tell that? What was she doing? When she sat down beside him her legs and body were facing towards him and she was looking at his eyes when he was talking. In other words, he had her full attention. what happens later on when she finds out I'm not really as forward as her first impression? Again, he wasn't so much aggressive as bold and confident. I don't expect you to walk out there and do what this guy did. What I do HOPE for is that you will see it's not all that scary and that in response of seeing this you will become more proactive at meeting girls. Over time it will become easier and it will flow more smoothly like this guy did. And finally, what if I can't think on my feet? This isn't a social issue, I just don't think very fast in general. Because it's completely foreign territory. I think that over time and effort you will think much faster. Link to comment
Mantis Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 Well, I didn't mean aggressive like a bad thing. Just that he was really forward and uninhibited. I don't know, maybe I'm not expressing it well. I see what you mean about body language in that case now that you explained it, but I still have a hard time reading it in general. I understand I'm not supposed to do exactly what he did. But you're still suggesting that men should be less reserved, right? That's fine, but where's the line between letting yourself loose and misrepresenting yourself in order to get girls? That's not a rhetorical question, I really don't know. I'm a reserved person by nature, and if I did something LIKE THAT, even if it wasn't exactly that, I think it wouldn't really be me. Again, I don't mean this as an excuse. I've really been trying to talk to girls recently, and I've actually said something to a few, even though 2/3 of them didn't result in conversation. You're probably right about learning to think faster. Nothing I do really requires me to think fast. Maybe that's all it is. Link to comment
JadedStar Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 That's not what her body language said. That is not what I saw Diggity. Her body language did say that in my opinion. This girl was trying to get a job in a resort. Link to comment
JadedStar Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 Wow, I didn't think the guys who responded to this thread could be so negative about a video. Thinking it's dishonest, that he's using "tricks" to "snare" that girl, please grow up, . If you do not think that guy was using "tricks" then you need to go back to Personal Relations 101. I felt like pulling out my wallet at one point. I figured he must be selling something that is useful. sarcasm Link to comment
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