A girl thing

[Lisa_Grimino]

I’m writing this because I’m a little confused about something. I posted in another thread about how I as a straight female don’t get along with women very well. No, it’s not a jealousy thing (although don’t get me wrong, I am human, I do have my touches of jealousy sometimes, who doesn’t)

I wrote how I get along with guys so much easier, and don’t really feel comfortable in the company of women. It’s not something I want to happen, I have just never been able to keep up a proper friendship with any girl even if I really try. And believe me I’ve tried.

With guys I just don’t have the nervous feeling like I have to say something to break the silences, or if I say something stupid or reveal something they will tell someone, or that they’re judging me on everything I do or say, or how I look. (They most likely don’t, it’s all in my head, but I just feel that way.)

 

Anyways, I got so many disapproving replies to this. All from women, some were only generally disapproving, but some totally blew my post way out of proportion, and attacked me like I had just called for the mass enslavement of the female sex and turned back feminism by 50 years.

Why is this? If I were a gay man saying how I wasn’t sexually attracted to females, would there be a problem? No. But just because I am a straight woman who is not attracted to females on a platonic friendly level, I am told what I feel is wrong?

I never say horrible things about women or disrespect them in anyway or anything, it’s just like they’re from another world and we never connect, and it has never become an issue until now.

 

I’m sorry I feel this way. Maybe it had to do with me growing up with five of a bunch of male cousins and a brother very close in age, and besides Mum, my grandma and two sisters 6 and 19 years apart from me, I’ve no other female relatives but a lot of male ones, a lot of brothers. I couldn’t tell you for sure, I don’t know. (In a very ironic twist here, my mother is without a doubt the dominant parent in my house, and is a very strong woman. She also pretty much dominates all her brothers, four older and two younger, who always go to her for everything. Before you go all Freudian on me, she feels the same way I do on this topic)

 

Really am I committing some sin against the sisterhood here? I thought feminism was about equality, but from the PM’s I’m getting it seems I should stop hanging around with only guys and remain friendless if I can’t make female friends. What a horrible person I must be. I should really take a good look at myself in the mirror, huh?

 

The rant’s ending now, so feel free to comment. If you have advice on how I could make female friends, that’d be great. If you disapprove, post here too. Just please nobody attack me over my views okay? I love that there is such a thing as free speech, but I will not be bullied into seeing something someone else’s way. By all means, please give me your point of view, I’m very open to seeing things differently, but don’t try to force them upon me.

[sourpeach]

you sound full of yourself and insecure at the same time.

 

most guys have female friends only because they want to have sex with them. these male friends of yours are probably just hanging around, waiting for you to give them the green light. you probably know this, and thats why you hang with guys. you dont get the ego boost from women so you dont like them. god forbid you have female friends because when out someplace they might get some male attention, and you wouldnt like it.

[Lisa_Grimino]

you sound full of yourself and insecure at the same time.

 

most guys have female friends only because they want to have sex with them. these male friends of yours are probably just hanging around, waiting for you to give them the green light. you probably know this, and thats why you hang with guys. you dont get the ego boost from women so you dont like them. god forbid you have female friends because when out someplace they might get some male attention, and you wouldnt like it.

 

This is what I'm talking about. How do I sound full of myself and insecure? All my friends know I'm taken and would never try anything, and many I've had for years. I find guys usually have a short attention- span, if I didn't give it to them a 16, I doubt they're still hanging around for it 6 years later. I'm flattered, but I don't look that great that I'd have these guys still panting for me!

 

Are you a woman? Beause if you are, this kinda validates my theory. (If not, sorry! Why would you assume these guys only want sex with me? Is that the only way men and women can interact with each other? Can you only have deep conversations with women, guys are these totally superficial creatures that devolve into cavemen when in the presense of a girl?

Also, without knowing me at all, you assume I like attention and and get an ego boost from hanging out with friends.

Why are you so judgemental?

[itsallgrand]

Where's the confusion?

 

It seems to me you know exactly how you feel, and what your opinions are in this matter. And you aren't afraid to say it.

 

Whether this generalization about all people who happen to be women is worth defending or not - that is up to you to decide.

[sourpeach]

i had a male friend for 8 years who in the end snapped and gave me the ultimatum that it was either "have sex with me or let me have wasted 8 years of my life". never would have guessed it before that tho.

 

i come to my conclusions based on what you say and how you say it.

 

and yes, men do devolve to cavemen. that's why they're less judgemental. they dont care how dumb you are or whether you talk or not..

 

and male/female.. i don't get along with most people.

[Lisa_Grimino]

Where's the confusion?

 

It seems to me you know exactly how you feel, and what your opinions are in this matter. And you aren't afraid to say it.

 

Whether this generalization about all people who happen to be women is worth defending or not - that is up to you to decide.

 

I'm confused as to why anyone has an issue with this. I'm not saying I hate women or don't want to be friends with them, I'd love a girlfriend like you see in the movies, someone you can tell secrets to and back you up no matter what. Unfortunately, I've never had this. I've tried, it just never works out.

I was just amazed at the responses I got. Like that one from SourPeach. Why does this bother anyone?

Just because I am better matched to men, why am I being judged for it? I'm not hurting anyone. Why just because I'm a girl must I be pigeon- holed as to who I should be friends with? Man, I feel so sorry for gay people if this is the reaction they get from civilised society, because they don't fit the 'norm.'

[sourpeach]

please, gays get far worse.

 

you make no sense. you call yourself a girly-girl then say it's like women are from another planet?

 

sex isnt the only way men and women can interact, but it's the most common, even the most unconscious. as basic and unconscious as a man holding a door for one woman and not another.

 

you dont like women because they're judgemental, if you were not insecure you would not have a fear or dislike for judgement.

[Lisa_Grimino]

i had a male friend for 8 years who in the end snapped and gave me the ultimatum that it was either "have sex with me or let me have wasted 8 years of my life". never would have guessed it before that tho.

 

i come to my conclusions based on what you say and how you say it.

 

and yes, men do devolve to cavemen. that's why they're less judgemental. they dont care how dumb you are or whether you talk or not..

 

and male/female.. i don't get along with most people.

 

I'm sorry that happened in your case, but it isn't what's happening in mine. I have five cousins and a brother very close in age to me. (I have lots of others, big catholic family) So as we grew up together, their friends became my friends, until they're all my friends.

I act like a guy with them. I don't hug them or flirt with them or ever be in the position that it might get awkward, because yes after all, they are guys with hormones. We go drinking and fishing and sit around playing xbox.

If I was the kind of girl in the hotpants and midriff top getting all drunk and hugging these guys and lapping up the attention from knowing they want to bang you, fair enough I see your point.

But the one in jeans and a T-shirt watching WWE with them, kicking their ass on D.O.A, watching stupid movies. To them, I'm only a girl by technicality. (Though, they probably would bang me if I offered it up, but that's just a guy thing I think, I don't think any guy would pass up any opportunity!

[DN]

You are free to like who you wish for whatever reason. It doesn't mean you have a contempt for women.

 

As you have seen, some people have a contempt for men or women and they make sexist and disparaging remarks about them. Usually it's because they have been hurt and seek to bolster their egos by making such statements. They don't realise that by doing so they are betraying their own inadequacies.

 

However, even though you don't seem to make such sexist statements, I do think you should look beyond the gender and deal with people as individuals.

[itsallgrand]

I'm confused as to why anyone has an issue with this.

 

LOL. People will have an issue with pretty near anything some of the time, and some of the people.

 

Yet out of this whole board, why are you focusing on the few that bothered to bite or get irritated?

 

And then, in turn, mention it here - in a new thread?

 

I think you could very well have female friends any time in the future. There is no reason why not.

 

I think, honestly, that this thread (whether you intended it that way or not) came accross a bit like stirring the pot, drama-y, looking for trouble.

 

I think, honestly, that half of the reason you are getting some of the responses you are is not what you are saying it, but rather how you are saying it.

 

There is no reason for you to change as a person, essentially who you are, in order to find it easier to make female friends.

 

It may make things easier if you focus on the positives of individual women rather than generalizing about them or singling out the 'bad' things they say or do (and attributing it to their ovaries lol).

 

Hey, my female friends don't fit some "norm" , and they don't fit your generalizations. To say such things to them would be to insult them.

They are independent, and more of them than not enjoy "guy stuff" more than a lot of the men who I am friends with!

With the girls we may go camping or throwing a ball around, as likely as going to a store or some other stereotypical "girl" thing.

 

You yourself do not fit the generalization. So why put other women in the box?

 

Yes, I do think the only thing stopping you from enjoying female friendships is your attitude about it. And THAT you can change without changing YOU.

 

Trying to change every body else there in the world's attitudes and behavior, that is a lost cause!

 

It's just knowing what to fight for, and when to back down. Fighting for an opinion that does not serve you and what you want: that's silly, I'm sure you'll agree at some point.

 

take care. Don't worry. Things get a lot easier as you get out of that early 20's crowd...and grow more in your skin...and simply do not worry about this stuff anymore.

 

A friend is a friend is a friend in whatever package.

[Lisa_Grimino]

please, gays get far worse.

 

you make no sense. you call yourself a girly-girl then say it's like women are from another planet?

 

sex isnt the only way men and women can interact, but it's the most common, even the most unconscious. as basic and unconscious as a man holding a door for one woman and not another.

 

you dont like women because they're judgemental, if you were not insecure you would not have a fear or dislike for judgement.

 

Yup. I wear make-up, wash and dye my hair, wear nice clothes. I think I'm quite feminine. But I can't get into a proper conversation with a woman, thats why they seem to be from another planet. We just cannot connect. It's a shame, and I mean that.

 

Is because of that situation with that guy after the 8 years made you feel ths way? That guys only like you for sex? Because it doesn't have to be that way.

 

You're judging me right now, is that a case of me being insecure? Instead of believing I can have a fulfilling friendship with a guy that is not about sex, you accuse me of wanting attention, how could any guy want to actually talk to me- not just see me as a lay, and saying I'm insecure. Is this not just a case of you being insecure, and trying to push it onto me?

[Lisa_Grimino]

You are free to like who you wish for whatever reason. It doesn't mean you have a contempt for women.

 

As you have seen, some people have a contempt for men or women and they make sexist and disparaging remarks about them. Usually it's because they have been hurt and seek to bolster their egos by making such statements. They don't realise that by doing so they are betraying their own inadequacies.

 

However, even though you don't seem to make such sexist statements, I do think you should look beyond the gender and deal with people as individuals.

 

No, no, I do see people as individuals, and should I meet a woman I connect with, great! I would love it. I'm all for being friends. It's just the majority of them I don't get along with, it's just a personal quirk. Not because there is anything wrong on their part, I just don't normally.

That's what I mean. I don't think there is anything wrong with women, there is just something about me that makes it more difficult to interact with women than men. I never said that there isn't an exception to the rule out there somewhere!

 

The point of this thread is I can totally understand people disagreeing, or saying maybe I need to get away from my guys and hang with more girls, maybe I'd feel more at ease. Or like you, DN, who said I shouldn't lump all women into one category (which wasn't my intention, but I see how it can look that way) I'd like any of that feedback.

 

But I just get people accusing me of being jealous and insecure, or that I'm being sexist. I'm sorry if it sounds that way, I really don't mean it to sound like that, but I don't know any other way to put it.

 

This is what I'm trying to say: I have a hard time connecting with women. I get along with guys great though, so I have a lot of friends and it doesn't bother me too much. I don't think it's really a problem unless it's affecting my life.

I wrote a post in a thread about a girl who thinks she is resenting men. I didn't judge her, but wrote how I don't get along with women, it's just personality thing, maybe it's just that, don't worry too much.

 

To that I got a bunch of very angry answers, and I don't know why. I'm not hating or descriminating anyone, just saying how I personally feel, and how life has worked for me. I don't understand why it caused such a fuss.

[DN]

I think the best thing is to let it go and just go on as you are.

[Lisa_Grimino]

I think the best thing is to let it go and just go on as you are.

 

Well I'm happy, it's just if people are reacting like that I must be doing something wrong. I want to know why I am such a hateful person, which I guess I must be according to everyone else, and is there no one else in the whole world who relates to how I feel?

[DN]

I think it would be silly for people to think you are hateful. But perhaps not the most tactful. The problem is that if you essentially say you don't get along with a particular group of people - members of that group will take it personally and react accordingly.

[jenny_mcs]

Well I'm happy, it's just if people are reacting like that I must be doing something wrong. I want to know why I am such a hateful person, which I guess I must be according to everyone else, and is there no one else in the whole world who relates to how I feel?

 

Well, I looked at your comments on the other thread, and you did say that the "vast majority" of women are "gossipy, b*tchy, jealous." So, do you think this might be why some people took offense?

 

Whenever I see an opinion like that- that an entire sex, race, religion, or whatever is so awful, I do automatically assume that the person with those opinions is pretty ignorant, and that there are some really deep insecurities fueling things.

[bulletproof]

I agree with all the others that are telling you that the problem here is making massive generalizations. It's important to get to know people as individuals and not stereotypes. I used to feel the same way you did when I was in my late teens/early twenties, and it WAS because I was insecure. I couldn't relate to other women because I was nervous and unsure around them. Now, I have lots of female friends, and male friends as well. It can change as you get older and learn more about yourself.

 

Also, I think that people reacted to your post because life is all about balance, and it doesn't sound like you have a good balance in your life in terms of your friendships. If you're posting here, it seems like you are looking for advice- that's the whole point of these boards, really- so people reacted by telling you that what you're doing probably isn't that emotionally healthy for you.

[aquatic]

Hi, Lisa.

 

I won't bother reading the original thread from where this branched. I'm just focusing on what you're saying here. I'm female, and based on what you've posted on this thread, I don't find anything offensive.

 

Trying to rationalize where you're coming from, most likely you are just more comfortable with the male personality. It'sallgrand (post#10) gave good advice. It really won't help if you make generalizations about women/potential girl friends; look for the positive instead of focusing on what you hate about them. A person has many sides, don't get turned off so quickly. True, there are really prissy, catty women out there who're hard to stand, but there are MUCH more nice ones. Besides, the "nasty" side sometimes is a screen you have to see through to gauge if there is something worthwhile inside. You can't be extremely picky and wait for THE perfect flawless girl BFF. Hard to come by, but it's easy to find some that comes close to it. Just relax and don't set the bar unrealistically high. You're looking for friends, not someone to get married to, lol.

 

At the same time, focus on yourself. Who knows, maybe they find you just as annoying as you find them? When you meet someone, do you really put some effort -- if your friends are mostly guys, maybe effort-wise they put in more, so you're not used to doing that? Are you a patient, equally interested and interesting person to have as a friend? Does your biased view of women sound through wit what you say/how you act? (the mere mention of shop talk makes you roll your eyes, do you unconsciously mock their interests, style, etc). Just because you don't feel it's important doesn't mean it isn't to them. Bend you interests a bit, who knows, maybe you'll expand yours a bit as well.

 

But at the end of the day, if you really can't stand any girl friend (and you most likely are socializing in a very small pool then), it doesn't really say anything bad about you. It just is. If you feel your friendship with guys are genuine, then it's all good. You're bound to meet someone with whom you'll mesh with.

 

Hope this helps, good luck

[skygrl]

hey Lisa.. well I can relate (and yes I am female) I wont even attempt to explain my reasons (because like u i am not sure of them and it will mostly likely come accross all wrong lol). or attempt to delve into male/female relationships.. or femine/masculine energy, sex etc..

But i know personally I have always felt more comfortable around men, and I do know (epecially now I am a little older) that this does not come from getting attention or sexual energy from men, because that will quickly make me feel 'uncomfortable' with the friendship and I wont continue with it.

I've never been able to put my finger on why.. but if I walk into a room on women talking 'girl talk' I feel very uneasy (almost like a man walking in on that situation).. but if I walk into a room with men who are having a beer watching footy, I will sit down, put my feet up on the table, crack a beer and start slinging jokes with everyone. I don't know why this is. upbringing? but i didnt grow up around a lot of males... hmm.. sometimes i think I should have been a bloke lol.. I feel much more at home with male comradeship and the way they relate to one another.. honestly women baffle me, and I feel so out of place. it has bothered me alot through my life.

And I am quite feminine looking btw, long hair, paint my toe nails lol .. and I hate shopping, cooking, don't enjoy the hairdresser, can be ready to hit the town in 10 mins! etc lol I worked in an office for years and hated it, now I work in an industrial job, steel cap boots, getting dirty and love it to death.

Mind u I have improved in being able to chat with women in general, tho I still find it difficult to relate to them..and I have actually worked with two lesbian girls recently (at different times) and got on with them so well, go figure, but they were really laid back, liked talking about footy etc.. I havent pondered on that enough to figure it out yet lol but maybe it just comes down to common interests.. My common interests are unusual for a female and in general I just dont have much conversation wise to talk about with other women.

I have one very close female friend now (we only met when I was 29!) but we have been like sisters since the moment we became friends (nearly 5 years ago). We are both just odd I think and that is our close bond lol..

anyway, I just wanted to let you know that ur not totally alone in what u are feeling.. just go with what u are happy with, accept the way u are and feel and live ur life according to that.. don't worry what anyone else thinks or says.. do what makes 'u' happy gal!

and, just have to say, i really think that anyone who says males are only friends with women cause they are waiting to sleep with them.. I am sorry, but u are living in the dark ages!

everyone thinks about sex, everyone ponders about having sex with someone they know occasionally, anyone who is friends with someone solely for that reason (and both men and women do it) is not really a friend.. and im sure, as women don't, many men wouldnt appreciate being amassed into a single group of shallow, conniving sex fiends. thats not fair at all.

[Lisa_Grimino]

Thank you so much Aquatic and Skygrl. Especially Skygrl! I stopped coming to these forums or even reading the replies to this thread because everyone had such a fit about what I wrote I felt really bad and stopped wanting to read them.

 

Skygrl, exactly. You seem to feel the way I do. Now do you hate women as a general rule? Of course not! Neither do I! You're just more comfortable with guys and find it easier to connect with them than most women, right?

 

Aquatic, thank you for not taking offence. I never meant to be offensive to anyone. I have never said I hated women or anything remotely like that. I have female acquaintances, just no female friends. I'd love a female friend, I just never seem to be able to make it work, and I have tried.

 

Thanks for actually reading my posts and not jumping on the politically correct bandwagon and hating me. See you guys, we could be friends!

Women are great. Men are great too. I just find my personality aligns with men better than it does with most women.

[raffi_FL]

Hi Lisa. I don't take offense to what you're saying. I can see where you are coming from. Do you ever meet women that you would like to be friends with? It could be that you are just meeting the wrong types. For me, I stay away from gossipy people in general. It isn't just women who do that. Sometimes I am amazed when I overhear people talk horribly about "friends". So I make a mental note that they aren't my kind of person.

 

I have met some really cool women as friends, just the same as male friends. It can be tough to find true friends of both genders.