Nonchalance is Your Friend

[CrapAtNC]

Hi All, you said its never too late, why do you say that and what sort of things did you do and how did you change?

 

I did everything that doesn't work and wasn't good for either of us: I cried, begged, kept trying to 'accidentally' bump into her, got angry with her, made threats, annoyed her friends, refused to leave her apartment once (I was outside) until the police came, engaged in arguments whenever I felt hurt or disappointed or frustrated, promised to change . . . everything.

 

On a side note, almost everyone on this forum went through the above as part of the road to success--I guess it leaves a lasting impression that you did once really care.

 

How did I change? I just decided that I was going to stop this kind of behaviour, since it was getting me nowhere, was hurting both of us, and making me look like a wuss and a fool. I decided that I was going to react differently from now on--more nonchalantly, more relaxed, more attractively. I imagined smiling and finding something funny to say in response to the comments or events that used to set me off onto a destructive course of action, and i accepted that I was going to make mistakes but I was going to master this. And I did it.

 

It helped when I told myself that there was nothing really that she could do that could make me feel any worse, so I had no need to keep fighting--the worst had already happened and I had survived, so I could stop making desperate reactions. I thought up some cocky and funny responses to say next time she told me she hated me or hinted she was dating or happy with someone else. And I genuinely moved on, as any nonchalant person would.

 

I saw it as a game, it's true, but in reality it was me choosing to adopt a healthier behaviour for all of us--the game aspect just helped me carry one through the more difficult moments without falling into despair and the harmful behaviours that used to go with them.

 

I have a beautiful model seemingly chasing me right now, and she's making very public comments about how I'm driving her crazy by making nothing but cocky and funny comments at anything she says, including what have now become flirtations. And I genuinely don't care if I get anywhere with this lady, as lovely as she is. I'd like to, but I don't need to. And I believe that truly feeling that way makes me a more attractive person to anybody.

 

Hope that helps.

 

 

Crap

[Theblueman123]

Congratulations, you've figured out attraction. You won the game

[WomanWriter]

This is very inspiring to me. I admire your confidence and ability to take things so lightly. I aspire to be like this but I struggle. I, too, am co-dependent but have been basically forcing myself to not let my ex see any signs of sadness or distress. As far as he and his family know, I am doing well. It really does help me feel better to think my ex sees me doing well, even though it's not exactly the case.

 

I never believed in "fake it til ya make it" but trying to let things go and not tripping about them does help to a certain point.

 

This is a great post!

[Kerrian]

Fantastic thread, thank you so very much because I definitely need this one!

I see my ex day to day, love him very much - and find myself falling back into the same traps that everybody else has been through - the promising to change, the apologising, etc.

 

I've always loved pleasing others, and being generous...and of course that meant that as soon as there was somebody who I really cherished - I lavished all of that attention on him, and lost quite a lot of myself in those actions.

Unfortunately - it's true that people want a partner who has goals, hobbies and a life of their own. They don't want somebody who follows them around catering to all their needs without any time for themselves, and that's really a category I was falling into at the end of the relationship, and started to resent my ex for not appreciating all I felt I was investing, where really - I was being smothering, and should have been resentful toward myself, not him.

 

So yes.

To now - where we've agreed to work on things, but it's not particularly smooth going, not helped by either of us, and I lapse into ridiculous behaviour, which needs to stop now - and I'm pretty uplifted by your story.

I started a while ago, just trying to respond with a smile and not let things bother me...and now I just need the will to carry on going and change that aspect of myself.

 

I don't think there's anything wrong getting joy out of making other people happy. But I shouldn't let it be damaging to myself, and shouldn't let it drain my independance. I need to learn that there isn't any shame in doing things for other people, but it shouldn't take over my life, and most certainly shouldn't be something that makes me actively miserable.

 

So from hereon, I shall make more of a conscious effort to stop upsetting myself. You're right - it's a choice to be affected by things a lot of the time, and I need to start choosing the better path!

 

Thank you.

[CrapAtNC]

Thanks, TheBlueman123; that is how it feels. For decades I've felt like love and flirtation and being attractive were what other guys enjoyed, not me. Now I'm better at 'playing the game', and, being a genuinely caring person, I use that power for good.

 

I'm having fun with several lovely women, and I'm chasing none of them. And they're all having fun (I'm not sleeping with any of them, but we're doing fun things). I'm just enjoying female company the way I always should have, and - here's the part I could never comprehend before - the women around me are having a much better time with me than they would have before. It's fun and exciting for them. . . . I'll accept any 'sexist!' comments here, but I'm genuinely interested in making the dating and attraction experience great for all of us. When I choose someone I can commit to, then that's what I will do.

 

WomanWriter, you're doing great. Keep smiling, don't be tricked into bringing back old behaviours, see it as fun for both of you, and know that whatever happens you are fine, always will be fine, and are making your future the best it could be no matter who is a major part of it. I admire your spirit to fight off codependency and actually give people what they really want: a lover who saves a little of herself for herself and does it to make relationships more fulfilling for herself and her partner. By not showering others with what we want to give them, we make them appreciate us more, and that makes their life more fulfilling and less confusing ("I don't know why I don't want to be with you; you're so sweet!" Aargh! We're too sweet! Have to hold some back.)

 

Kerrian, you too are inspiring. Know that pleasing others isn't a matter of doing everything for them, giving them everything they could possible want, or worrying about them all the time; pleasing others is actually about trusting them to be able to make their own decisions in life and come to you when they need your help. We can actually be better to our lovers by not being so sickly nice! They don't want the material things we give them, and bless them for that. They want fun, excitement, and a partner with a sense of self worth that makes them feel honoured and fulfilled just being with us.

 

One last point for some of you: One of the best pieces of advice I read in Codependent No More was that we can choose to accept the feelings we're having but refuse to let ourselves act on them. This is an extremely useful and powerful tool for me right now. I can accept feelings such as loneliness, jealousy, fear, and missing them and know that they are good, healthy feelings to have. And I can carry on without having to act on those feelings. We can validate them but not allow them to ruin our life.

 

Having this new way of dealing with painful experiences has been fantastic. It helps me not react negatively to stuff. It helps me not drunk dial my ex. And it helps me realise that I am in control of my life.

 

Take care, all.

 

 

Cra[p

[dandan78]

 

One last point for some of you: One of the best pieces of advice I read in Codependent No More was that we can choose to accept the feelings we're having but refuse to let ourselves act on them. This is an extremely useful and powerful tool for me right now. I can accept feelings such as loneliness, jealousy, fear, and missing them and know that they are good, healthy feelings to have. And I can carry on without having to act on those feelings. We can validate them but not allow them to ruin our life.

 

Having this new way of dealing with painful experiences has been fantastic. It helps me not react negatively to stuff. It helps me not drunk dial my ex. And it helps me realise that I am in control of my life.

 

Take care, all.

 

 

Cra[p

 

This is what I am aspiring to right now. I still react but far less so and it has helped me in myself more than I could have imagined. I still falter but am less critical of myself for doing so.

My ex is unaware of 90% of the changes I have made for myself (or at least as far as I know) and I feel little urge to show her. I still have a long way to go but, litle by little, the positivity is returning, even if she doesn't.

 

Thank you CRap

[claire79]

Hi!

 

I guess I have a question on exactly how you do this while IN a relationship. I am recently reunited with my ex but I can already tell that my neediness is starting to drive him away. I feel like I'm always the one initiating phone calls/text messages/inviting him to do things. Do I just break contact with him completely? How do you go about NC while trying to work on a relationship? Or how do I be nonchalant when I feel like we are trying to figure things out again? For example, tonight, I'm attending a friend's birthday party in which he is also invited (we are for the most part in the same large group of mutual friends). I called him this afternoon, just to say hi for the most part, and asked if he planned on going and he said he "thinks so". Yes, he is a master of nonchalance So I'm just going to go up there by myself as planned but when/if he comes, how do I act "nonchalant"? Ignore him and hang out with other people? I'll be excited to see him and of course want to hug/kiss him as soon as he comes in, but do I not do that?

 

By the way, I'm the type of person that people always know what's going on in my head- I'm such an open book and so easy to read, so this is going to be a tough challenge for me. However, I value myself enough to figure this out now, whether it works out with him or not, as I need to break this crazy repetitive pattern!

 

Thanks Crap for your wise words!

[HowDoIKNow]

I agree with some of this but not all. I think it's just sad that we all can't just act how we feel when we really love someone and put all the "game playing" aside. Life is too short to hold back expressing feelings of love for another person. And that other person should realize that life is too short to run away from those expressions. It's ridiculous really.

 

With that being said. My ex of almost a year and half broke up with me one month ago. We have had contact. Talked about the relationship a few times. We have gone out to casually grab some food and actually "went out" on Halloween night and had a great time I thought. No physical contact other than hugging. When I am around him now (after the first couple of initial meetings where were "talked" about the relationship and I cried and got upset) I believe I act NC to a degree. Maybe not so much NC as I just act caring to a degree but casual. We laugh, we get along great...always have.

 

However, my mind drives me insane. I worry, analyze, worry, analyze, etc. BUT I do resist chasing him and I don't call or text him unless I am returning his call/text or I have a valid reason, I believe. I love this man dearly. Thing is... he broke up with me because he felt he wasn't getting his wants/needs met. So it wasn't that I was over doing something. I have discussed with him how I do not feel he made his wants/needs clear to me therefore I didn't have the opportunity to meet them.

 

All that aside, what should I do? I love this man. I keep my distance from him physically unless he initiates a touch. I do hug him when he leaves. Last Sunday, he had offered to go look at some computer stuff with me (I didn't ask) but he ended up not feeling well but still went anyway. Came back to my house and some meds he had taken kicked in and he crashed on my couch for awhile. No problem...he shouldn't drive. However, I kept waiting for him to go home when he woke up but he didn't. He wasn't feeling well still and we just hung out on the couch, talking casually. We ended up sleeping on the couch together....fully clothed...no moves made but he did wrap his arm around me and we slept like we used to.

 

I asked him on Tuesday if he'd like to go see a movie that he mentioned wanting to see and I got the response, "maybe....depends on when I'm free....will get my work schedule on Thursday." Well, I focused on the fact that he said "maybe" and not "yes...let me check when I'm free". However, I didn't say a word to him about it and didn't display any anger/upset, etc. He called me Thursday night (we have moved from mostly texting to a phone call here and there) and talked for an hour about a work issue. No mention of the movie and I didn't bring it up. I haven't talked to him since. I know he worked last night and tonight. I won't contact him but I don't know how to act when he contacts me? If he suggests us doing something even if it's going through a drive through to get food, I don't want to miss an opportunity to spend time with him.... again, I say life is too short. However.... that doesn't seem to fit into the mold of NC.

 

Ideas? I'm dying over here....

[Strawbridge]

On a side note, almost everyone on this forum went through the above as part of the road to success--I guess it leaves a lasting impression that you did once really care.

 

Crap

 

CrapAtNC

 

I didn't do any of the crying, begging, pleading. It took all my composure but when she told me she was ending it I was thinking I can cry once she leaves the house and i'm alone. I told her that I couldn't just be friends its either all or nothing. The next day i defriended her on FB and decided to go no contact. Since then I have regretted not giving it a shot at getting her back so I have initiated contact again just to show her there are no hard feelings and that the communication door is still open. I have been in LC with her for a month now, but it's all initiated by me...none by her, but as i haven't gone more than 2 weeks NC ( I always cave in ..in fact thinking of sending her a txt right now) i guess I don't know if she would initiate or not.

 

So i guess what I'm asking is if i should actually try and beg for a bit and ask about the relationship? So far in all the LC i have not done any relationship talk with her at all and have not asked for her back. I guess I have been nonchalant to a certain degree, but in my own head i miss her so much and think about her all the time and what she's doing or who she's with and am quite depressed because of it.

 

What would you suggest....? should i take the risk and contact her and go for it and beg and plead just this once (possibly setting me back even more)...or continue being aloof and nonchalant and risk her forgetting about me.

[CrapAtNC]

Hi, Claire.

 

There are a few pointers I can give you. Nonchalance isn't so much about appearing not to care about them, but more about showing that you'll be happy whatever happens and you're not going to support them heading down a destructive path.

 

Try changing the way you speak a little, to sound more sure of yourself. Instead of saying "Do you want to come to X with me?", say "I'm going to X tomorrow. Come with me." If he says no, just say "OK" happily, because your happiness isn't dependent on whether he comes or not (and relieving them of all that stress of being responsible for your happiness is a big turn on for them, promise you).

 

Imagine how differently he would have felt if you hadn't called to see if he was going to the party, but instead just gave a flirty wave when you saw him there and waited for him to come to you. Then be as affectionate as you like. If he asked why you didn't call him, say you knew you'd see him there. If he asks why you didn't go say hi at the party (but you did give a flirty wave, remember), say flirtily that you were depriving yourself of the pleasure until later. He will sense a more confident you, and that will spark and hold his interest. He'll wonder where the confident, non-needy, attractive (hot) chick came from.

 

He's nonchalant with you because he believes you are more into him than he is to you - he's into you, don't worry, but you've made it too easy for him. By pulling back just slightly, you'll level the playing field, and that intensifies and strengthens the relationship for both of you.

 

If it helps, just tell yourself that you will lose the love you need from him if you show that you need it too much; relax a little, and you'll get what you want.

 

By the way, a few posters are confused: NC = 'no contact', not 'nonchalance'; you don't want to go NC, because you guys are in a relationship.

 

When I promote NC, I advise responding to their attempts at contact, but more lightheartedly, less often, more briefly, and not so immediately. This way, you're encouraging them to contact you, and rewarding them when they do so, while not crowding them at all with your own constant attempts at contact. You're showing you're happy when they get in touch, but also that you will be happy regardless - again, very attractive.

 

 

 

A lot to reply to, so please excuse the brief responses, HDIK.

 

Any human interaction is a game. How you communicate strongly affects the way others treat you. By learning how to behave more confidently, our relationships are happier. We're learning social laws. Any time someone suggests advice to you that isn't what you would have done in the past, it's not game-playing if you follow it. If touching the neighbour's dog always makes him bite me, trust me, I'm gonna start playing games and change whatever I was doing wrong to have annoyed that dog and got me hurt.

 

NC is not 'nonchalance' - just don't want to get you confused. I guess we can give it an abbreviation, though . . . how about 'nonc'?

 

If you worry, analyze, etc. you may think you're covering it well, but you're not; he will sense it. You need to be nonchalant, not act it; you need to see that your future happiness and successes have nothing to do with how he feels about you, so let it go and start enjoying being free of that burden - and see how much more attractive that makes you.

 

You say his needs/wants weren't being met. Well, one of our greatest needs/wants is a relationship that keeps us wanting to come back for more, to make us feel excited about what might happen next, about knowing that we are with someone valuable. And that means being with someone who doesn't obsess over us. Pull back a little. Be more sure of yourself. Make him happy by being someone he can really be attracted to.

 

When he stayed on your sofa, the way you described it sounds to me like he loves you. So stop worrying about that and start relaxing so that he can also relax around you.

 

When he contacts you and asks if you want to do something, he won't value you if you are always available. It means you are waiting on his every request, and that is so easy for him that it's dull. Make other plans. Make yourself unavailable some nights. Simply say you're busy and suggest a different night. This makes you far more desirable, as you are clearly happy in yourself and not putting pressure on him by making him feel that your whole life and happiness is dependent on him.

 

 

 

Strawbridge, I can tell that you are not in the right frame of mind to make anything work with her right now. You don't want to hear this, and you may not be able to follow the advice, but I would suggest staying in NC for a while until the need to be with her has gone and a healthy desire is in its place.

 

Read this.

 

Give it a little more time and you will have a far greater chance of success, I promise.

 

 

 

Hey, dandan, it seems to me that you have nailed this. Who knows if you'll get her back or not? But you are certainly getting yourself back, and that tells me that you certainly have a happy and healthy relationship ahead of you, whomever that might be with. Stay on that track. You're doing outstandingly well.

 

Best, all.

 

Crap

[rapunzel]

You will get more responses if you start your own thread, but I will respond here on one of favorite threads!

 

Life is short but as the philosopher Thomas Hobbes said, it is also "solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short". In other words, it's not fair and in a perfect world, yeah, we'd all be able to shower our partners with affection, tell them how we feel all the time and they'd be thrilled to accept it and everything would be hunky dory. But human nature doesn't work this way.

 

You are right, it IS sad in a way that we have to hold back, not always show our cards, play a "game". But a lot of life IS a game, in a way. And when your intimate partner dumps you, the games really begin.

 

In your situation, based on what you wrote, the facts are clear: your ex broke up with you one month ago. So he CHOSE not to be with you and that was his decision. You write that he "should realize that life is too short to run away from those expressions"...of love, from your end. I completely understand how you feel but the problem here is that HE does not feel the same WAY that you do and there is NOTHING you can do to change his mind. What you are currently doing with this man will virtually GUARANTEE that he will never regain those feelings for you. You are giving him emotional and physical comfort (in the form of hugs and sleeping with him on the couch) in the wake of his rejection of you. You are not giving him the chance to miss you and realize what he has lost. You cannot make him realize ANYTHING and the only way he may realize his loss is by your complete and utter absence from his life.

 

Basically you have put yourself at his feet and you've shown him your cards by asking him to see a movie with you. You are waiting for him to take you up on the offer and he blew it off. You are making this WAY too easy for him. This is where the "game" comes in. He's winning, I'm sorry to say and he will never respect and value you if you keep giving him the advantage and letting him win!

 

I'm sorry to be so blunt but I was in your shoes. I tried the "friend" thing with my ex after a couple of months. I never initiated, only responded to his invites and it was very, very confusing and led to a messed-up, failed reconciliation which left me in more pain than the first time around.

 

You need to give this man what he wanted when he broke up with you: space. Space, space and more space than he ever imagined. You can explain this to him, if you desire. Since it seems you want to be honest and sincere, you can say something like: "Ex, I care for you and I really valued our time together. But it's quite clear that things have changed between us and I don't think being "friends" is something I'm interested in right now. I think it's best that we not see each other or talk for a while and we both need to take this time to move past our relationship and find what we need to be happy. I hope you will respect my decision and maybe down the road we can be "friends". If in a few months you still think we might have something in common, then give me a call. If I'm still available, we can see if there would be a basis for continuing to see each other." Then you need to be completely away from him for probably 6 months.

 

Having this type of conversation is taking the high road. Since he dumped you, you don't really owe him anything and if you decided to disappear - poof - just go underground, NO CONTACT - that is certainly your prerogative. He would be confused and it would get his attention but you should do No Contact for yourSELF And not to get him back. If you decide to just disappear, he will probably contact you and you can then tell him that you have decided you don't want to be "friends" and say something along the lines of the above.

 

You love him but you have to let him go, and love him from a distance. He made his bed and you need to let him lie in it. Everyone wants what they cannot have. Right now he has you in the palm of his hand. if you go No Contact, he may or may not realize what he has lost but you have to give up your "need" for him in order for anything to work.

 

I am writing this for myself as well as you, so I can do it right the next time around. Sorry for your pain, but it's time to take your power back. Hang in there!

[rapunzel]

This is GREAT stuff, Crap and I love this thread....so much of what you say is the absolute truth, whether people want to accept it or not.

 

I just think a month after a break up of 1.5 years is too soon for HDIK to be available to her ex AT ALL. I feel she needs some complete time away from him before she can feel comfortable in her own skin, away from the relationship and her ex before she can make these kinds of decisions and not let her emotion cloud her judgement. She needs a good period of "alone" time to realize that she can be happy and content on her own regardless of his feelings for her, or whether he is in her life or not. This transformation in one's mind takes time, patience and practice. It takes being ALONE, in my opinion.

 

I agree that she should be unavailable to him as he dumped her after a 1.5 year relationship. It would seem to me she would need at least 60 days minimum of No Contact to clear her head and get into the frame of mind where she can feel happy on her own and practice nonchalance at it's best. I never had enough time away from my ex (total of about 3.5 weeks physical No Contact, and there was probably a business email in there somewhere) since we work together and nonchalance has been a real struggle for me, and frankly, I don't think I'm there yet..and it's been a year! With at least 60 -90 days of No Contact to allow space and the diminishing of emotions, I think one would be in a stronger position to practice these principles.

[CrapAtNC]

I agree with you. My version of NC, though, is a little different, as it involves responding in a relaxed and happy manner - though whether this works better or not depends, I think, on the length of time that's passed and whether, as you have implied above, we can remain in this calm, confident state should we actually attract them back.

[HowDoIKNow]

You will get more responses if you start your own thread, but I will respond here on one of favorite threads!

 

Thanks rapunzel and crap for responding. I did post my own thread on this on different forums but little response. So I will post my response to your thoughts there and remove it from this thread. If you will please go there to read and respond I would greatly appreciate it.

 

[HowDoIKNow]

Yeah, as soon as I hit 'submit' I realized I'd used NC when I meant nonchalance. I was following what you were saying though.

 

So rapunzel suggests NO CONTACT whatsoever for at least 60 days. Do you all not think that that kind of depends on the circumstances and the people? I don't think it'd be fair to group ALL relationships and ALL dynamics into one bucket and say this is how to handle it.

 

Also, how do you let someone see you've 'changed' so to speak or worked on yourself if you never have contact with them? In my situation, we do not have a mutual circle of friends, we do not work together and unless by some odd chance we ran into each other somewhere we'd never see one another. So how do they see the changes in you if never given opportunity?

 

I also think that the whole nonchalance thing is something that 'clicks' in you when you reach a certain point. I don't know that it's something you can manufacture. I experienced this years and years and years ago when I was madly in "infatuation" with a guy in high school. I was always there for him when he wanted to get together. I always looked for him in the halls...rearranged my routes to "run into" him, etc. Then after high school something just happened and one day I just realized that I didn't give a crap anymore. I honestly didn't. THEN he started contacting me and wanting to see me. If I saw him great... if I didn't..fine. It didn't matter. My feelings were gone. But in a case like what I'm in now. I can't NOT feel the way I feel. So I think it takes something that makes that 'click' within you so that you can really BE nonchalant because you feel that way.

 

So, since I asked him last Tuesday if he wanted to go see a movie he mentioned and he resonded with, "maybe...depends on when I'm free....will get my schedule on Thursday." I said nothing but ok. Continued to talk as if all was fine. Thursday night he called about work issues but never brought up the movie and neither did I. Haven't heard from him since. Next time he contacts me what would YOU recommend doing IF he mentions anything about the movie or doing something else? Just say, I can't that day/time but suggest another particular night to do something or just say maybe we can get together another night and for him to let me know when he's free and leave it in his hands?

 

T

[DenverBachelor]

I agree with you. My version of NC, though, is a little different, as it involves responding in a relaxed and happy manner - though whether this works better or not depends, I think, on the length of time that's passed and whether, as you have implied above, we can remain in this calm, confident state should we actually attract them back.

 

That's called INC (initiate no contact). It's just like NC, except you will respond if he or she texts or calls (but generally not immediately since you are busy and enjoying your new life).

 

NC should be strict. I think most people use INC.

[CrapAtNC]

Also, how do you let someone see you've 'changed' so to speak or worked on yourself if you never have contact with them?

 

. . . I also think that the whole nonchalance thing is something that 'clicks' in you when you reach a certain point. I don't know that it's something you can manufacture.

 

. . . Next time he contacts me what would YOU recommend doing IF he mentions anything about the movie or doing something else?

 

Hey, T.

 

If you go off the radar for a while and stop being so 'there' for him, trust me, he'll know you've changed.

 

Nonchalance is something that you become when you act - just like you become more confident when you stop slouching and you feel happier when you force yourself to smile. For the most part, we choose our moods. Choose to let go of the small stuff and focus on you and not him.

 

And forget about the movie! Step back. Is the movie really so important? Is the movie going to bring you back together or make you happier in the long run? Or is a change of attitude going to bring you happiness?

[CrapAtNC]

So, I had a brief but rich relationship with the best catch of my life so far: someone who's not only fun, loving, caring, and thoughtful, but also beautiful and sexy. She's a fairly famous actress and model. Only problem was, she had some insecurities, and I guess I did too, and we ended up pushing each other away. She kept trying to get me jealous and I ended up telling her to go the latest subject of her stories and I'll go back to being single; she took me at my word and was with him within 48 hours of that little break-up.

 

Anyway, move forward about three weeks. After an initial outburst (I called her a couple of names after practically walking in on them two days after we kind of broke up), I went into nonchalance mode. I immediately apologized for my outburst, told her it was because I was badly hurt and confused, but that I'm absolutely fine now. She tested it a few times by deliberately holding hands with the new guy when she knew I'd see her, but of course I did nothing.

 

I have made no attempts to be with her. She has made many attempts to be with me. Whenever she raises a subject that could cause argument, I just respond playfully. When she asks me to come over or to come to mine, I decline with a smile and a good excuse. When she says something that really could be painful for me and I don't know how to respond, I simply say nothing, smile, and change the subject.

 

All our interactions are fun. The majority of her requests to spend time together are denied. And anything that might cause pain or upset is brushed off. I let her know that I am happy, though I admit I was happier with her, but that I know I will be happier in my next relationship too. I tell her I won't be playing any games to get her jealous, and I am in no rush to jump into anything with anyone else just to level the playing field. When that happens, it'll be because I've met someone I genuinely like.

 

The result is that she seems to be finding me irresistible--even more than before. She compliments me endlessly: on how I look (and I'm pretty average, to be honest), on how lovely I am, on how sexy I am, on what a great boyfriend I will be for someone. My response? Usually "I know." Today we ended up going out on something very casual, and she couldn't keep her hands off me or stop looking at me. I told her with a smile to keep her hands off what she can't afford. (I'm also pretty certain I don't want to in any way screw things up for her new guy; I don't want anything else like that on my resume, and I genuinely feel for the guy, as he sounds pretty nice and very sensitive, and a bit too needy.)

 

While driving on our way to go get some shopping, she told me she loved me. I looked at her with mock shock, and asked if she said what I thought she just said. She said yes, but that it doesn't mean anything. I feigned relief and we carried on as normal, but with her staring at me as I drove. When I dropped her home, we hugged, and she told me she misses me, as she has done many times over the last couple of weeks.

 

Now, again, I'm nothing special, but I have made huge progress in my personal life in that I've learned to drop much of my neediness. And I truly believe that life is too short to waste pining for someone who seemed to be perfect--when they just seem to get better and better anyway. She, as I said, is a famous model and actress, and gets huge amounts of attention wherever we go. She's very much a simple girl though, and that's one thing I like about her. I love that a skinny, poor, older guy like me can have captured her attention so greatly. I couldn't have done that without confidence and a lack of neediness.

 

She was kind enough to tell me what I did to make her feel insecure enough to seek out another. I was kind enough to explain that I expect more from a significant other than to just jump ship to another guy at the first sign of trouble. I acknowledge that I need to work on some things; she realizes the same for herself.

 

Do I want her back? Right now, no. I believe I deserve better. Do I still like her? Yes. A lot. I remain nonchalant. I've been through the worst of it, and I'm thankful it happened just one month in, before I would have fallen more deeply for her. That has helped a lot with regard to my attitude. I need nothing, which also helps. And I desire nothing more than to see if I can ignite something stronger in her and to keep our relationship friendly and flirty. I genuinely like her, and I get on great with all but one of my exes.

 

It does seem, though, that she may be falling for me again. She even mentioned having my children at one point this afternoon and wanted to know if I would be a good father (a bit too much so soon, I agree, but it was said playfully). I know that if I had been anything but nonchalant the last few weeks, she would be doing quite the opposite right now, probably having to explain that it's completely over and I need to move on, as many previous exes had to.

 

I'm genuinely fine. I'm not letting her name, beauty, or status intimidate me or influence my actions at all, and I'm actually enjoying experiencing the power of behaving nonchalantly to create more attraction. I'm also happy that this way of behaving makes her time with me more enjoyable. It in no way causes her any upset, unlike if I had been acting heartbroken and needy.

 

I'm not sure where this will go, and I truthfully don't care. I'm really glad that we are both able to act with dignity and respect for ourselves and each other.

 

I hope any of you who are desperate to get back with your exes lose that desperation, accept the situation, and detach yourself from having any vested interest in the outcome. Not needing to be with them or to earn their acceptance is the best way to get your pride back, your joy of living back, and maybe even their interest back.

 

But then again, who cares?

[bwhite00]

You're absolutely right. Arguing comes from a place of insecurity and insecurity means attraction death.

 

You've got to stand up for yourself and be willing to walk away on a moments notice if somebody starts to try and poke and prod at your self-worth.

 

Know your boundaries. And don't let people constantly push them until they collapse. It's better to walk away from a relationship then have your significant other constantly push you to your limits just to see if they can get away with it. It's taken me a long time to learn this.

[rapunzel]

Hey Crap, thanks for the update...and the reminder. Sounds you are doing great! I'm not doing as superbly with the nonchalance thing as you are but I'm going to re-commit myself to it. I don't want him to think I'm flirting with him so it's a fine line. And I tend to overanalyze our interactions (yes, still) so I try to stay away and ignore him as much as possible (which is difficult when you're in a band together). When he does initiate contact with me I think I do handle it fairly well and that I'm nonchalant. Anyway, none of it truly does matter all that much, and I highly doubt I'll ever get the kind of response from him that you are getting from your ex.

 

At this point it's really all about my ego, and any interest from him would just be an ego boost and nothing else. I did get a little rgo boost a few weeks ago when he was afraid that he was being "patronizing" to me and asked me if this was indeed, the case. I was completely nonchalant about it. But then I wondered what "that" was all about so I overanalyzed it for a few days, and then realized (again) what a complete waste of time it is to try to figure him out.

 

Yeah indeed, who cares?

[CrapAtNC]

Hey, good to hear from you.

 

I flirt. It shows you can be confident and playful. It's great if you're flirting with him.

 

The overanalyzing though . . . I used to be the same. I've managed to lose the habit though. Trying to know and understand everything is an endless battle that usually has me fighting against myself. By knowing nothing, I have no choices to make, and therefore no mistakes to make. Some things I really don't want to know anyway.

 

When my ex says something that could mean something, or could mean something else, I just disregard it. I choose to wait for clear signals and nothing less (and then that's what I get).

 

I think that when you've reached the ability to really not care what he's up to or why, you'll start to see your ego stroked a lot more.

[sonicfan287]

Hey, I just wanted to say in general how helpful this thread has been for someone like me. I couldn't put my finger on just what my problem is and why I drive people away, sometimes very quickly. But I realize I need to practice "non chalance" a lot more, to be happier with myself and happier with the results I get out of life. For whatever reason, I'm the kind of person that feels like they need to run themselves through a wall to get what I want. When trying to get a relationship (or trying to maintain one) I tell myself there's a lot of work involved and even though I may be emotionally hurting, it'll be worth it when I get what I need and am able to satisfy someone else as well. The problem is, this never happens as long as i keep throwing myself at the situation and I end up in a cycle of self destructive behavior that doesn't benefit anyone and makes me appear weak, desperate and pathetic. Itd be so much easier to let things "Slide off my back" and yet this seems to be the hardest thing to do? Some days seem easier than others but in general I become frustrated when I dont start seeing a change or results from my changes and that's when I backslide. How are you able to maintain your new positive attitude without feeling the temptation to get frustrated?

[CrapAtNC]

How are you able to maintain your new positive attitude without feeling the temptation to get frustrated?

 

I have many years experience that has finally kicked in and reminded me how frustration makes things worse, how caring too much only hurts me and them, and how wanting to help others so badly actually supports their problem behaviour and therefore makes it worse. It's called enabling. I now refuse to enable, which leaves me free to stop worrying about them and them free to make their own decisions in life without me trying to jump in and rescue them.

 

I learned that I show real love by leaving them to heal themselves, basically.

[SA2000]

This thread is interesting. This is basically how I have lived my life up until recently. Cool and calm at all times. There were times I was surprised at the amount and quality of women I could attract with what I referred to as my "whatever" lifestyle. I have used this approach with my ex and she has responded favorably each time. Only for me to quickly return to my needy self and push her out the door for good.

 

But this thread has brought me back. Back to when I was a broke college student with literally nothing to offer. But for some reason I was in HIGH demand. Looks like its back to whatever.

[CrapAtNC]

SA2000, that's exactly it. Neediness pushes away; nonchalance attracts. Since I've learned to care less (in order to love more), I've been getting much more attention from women. I'm not a playboy, but I now have lots of attractive--genuinely nice--women friends. My last two lovers were women I would have originally thought were way out of my league but both chased me rather than the other way around.

 

I've noticed something I call the 'because/despite' phenomenon. There are so many amazing things that happen that seem to be in spite of or despite something that should have prevented them happening, but really they happened because of that seemingly counterproductive element.

 

For instance, we were told that it was a miracle the dirtiest kids at school never got sick. They stayed healthy 'despite their dirty living conditions'. The truth is, of course, that they never got sick because of their dirty lifestyle; they had developed very strong immune systems, just as kids do who live closely with dogs.

 

I used to think it was amazing how successful some guys were with women despite not trying as hard as I did--of course, they were far more attractive because they didn't try.

 

The best way I have found to not be needy is to look at my last two girlfriends and realise that my lovers really do just get better and better. I don't think like that because I want to keep moving on; I think like that because I want to lose all neediness so that I can happily settle down with one of these incredible women I have been 'lucky' enough to meet.

 

The better I get at it, the stronger effect it has on her; she loves having a strong, confident, upbeat man--the kind of man she believes she deserves.

 

Have a great weekend, all!