For women in their 30s and up mainly

[Batya33]

I am not sure where anywhere in my post I made any assumptions like that about younger women. I was inquiring as to whether I was being asked to assume that younger women were somehow a threat given the hypothetical and my response was one of being puzzled that I should presumably feel threatened. Maybe some of the other posters made some assumptions.

 

I mentor younger women - I have for several years now. And women's rights have been around far longer than I have and far longer than you have so that's not a generational difference whatsoever.

 

I make no assumptions about "younger women" either at work or socially - they are each individuals. Two summers ago I mentored a 20 year old intern. I found her to be bright, mature, super enthusiastic/driven and at the same time facing some tough decisions concerning whether to choose a better grad school or choose to go to grad school in the city where her bf got into grad school where the school would not be as good. Ultimately it all worked out but the way she analyzed it and the way she asked me for input was very insightful and mature for any age.

 

I do make assumptions about women of any age who choose to toot their own horns constantly especially about their looks/body, or who focus on their looks/body more than on their intelligence or what is on the inside, or who behave in a manipulative way in social or business situations. (same about men but this thread is about women). Women's rights don't mean having to be brash, outspoken or overly aggressive at the expense of tact and diplomacy. Getting ahead that way would be no victory for me, at least.

 

I've probably gone off topic because I found your post a bit off topic, but I did want to respond.

 

Thanks for sharing.

[JadedStar]

You just don't seem to be getting that no one is speaking about your situation personally. I don't think anyone here sees 24 year old women as inferior. That is your defenses speaking again. What we are saying is that we know for ourselves personally that we would not have a lot in common with someone two decades younger.

 

Most people would not be able to feel on the same page intellectually or emoitionally with someone younger. It doesn't mean that we see these younger people in a lesser light.

 

I am 40. There is no way i could date a 24 year old. Not beacuse there are not some GREAT 24 year olds out there, but only because i have two decades of life experiences under my belt he woudln't and it would likely hamper compatibility.

 

By this same token i have no desire to be with a man 20 years older than me either, but i think the age gap of 40 and 60 would be less of an impact to be honest.

 

Please stop taking everything so personally. We are speaking from what we have seen to be the case. When i speak of this I refer to the couples i know personally and I am sorry if you disagree with my assessment but it doesn't change it.

 

I think that because of your age gap relationship it makes you more sensitive to these conversations. You and yours might be an exception. I don't know I can't speak to that as I don't know either one of you.

 

When i was your age I was incredibly smart and mature for my age. HOWEVER I know that at age 24 a man of equal intelligence would have more experience and maturity than me and we probably woudln't have been a good match. There are exceptions to everything tho. I have read posts from a couple of young men on this forum and was just really impressed at how together they have it. Even on forums how one carries themselves sheds a lot of light on their personality, maturity and intellect.

[Natty7]

Yes I would feel massively threatened. My ex cheated on me with a girl of 20. I was 31 when this happened and could pass for early twenties myself, but that didn't stop him. Not only is it about young flesh, with a lot of men it's about being in control. They don't like women who are mature, they find that scary. Much better to be with a young and malleable woman, who thinks every word out of your mouth is genius.

 

I am sorry this happened to you. I really want your true opinion because obviously this subject interests me... do you fault the younger woman or your ex?

[Natty7]

Lately I've chatted with a few women who lost their husbands to yonger women.

They seemed pretty hostile to any guy with a young GF.

 

In your experiences Dako, is it just younger women, or the fact your friends were forced into divorce?

 

It would most likely, and I can't speak from experience, be the case for any divorcee no matter who their husband ran off with. I'd be pissed and I am a younger woman.

 

Thanks Dako!

[JadedStar]

Yes. I think that we would all be pretty upset to be left for another person period.

 

I don't think age would have anything to do with it. I would be equally upset if it were a younger or older woman or if it were a man even.

 

All are pretty devastating to a person.

 

I know a 28 year old guy who left his 28 year old wife for a woman of 45 years old. Everyone was pretty shocked but he just was smitten.

 

I bet that the younger ex wife didn't feel any better about it simply because she was yougner than the OM.

[Natty7]

Of course they are a threat, if you think they are not, then you are in a dream world or are overly confident. It is good to have that threat though because it makes you work for each other's attention, makes you keep in shape and be sexy. So it is a necessary evil.

 

I highly agree in the fact that we should stay in shape for the benefit not only for ourselves, but for our significant others too. My guy and I were just talking about this last night. He was blubbering on about how he hasn't been able to work out in two weeks and he promises to keep his body in the lovely shape that I fell in love with. (so cute) I exercise weekly not just because of my boyfriend, but I know he loves my body and he fell in love with this body so why would I go and change it on him. And I am SO glad he feels the same way.

 

You should NEVER stop working for that attention, because then it seems to me that you just give up. I have snagged my husband so I give up. Of course looks are not EVERYTHING in a relationship, but it's nice to know that your partner wants to look good for you.

[Miss Firecracker]

I do not feel threatened at all by very young women. I'd honestly be more concerned about one in our age range. My husband is in Canada today. He's been on the road constantly lately. So I am in a very high-risk situation. Young or old, either way it would certainly be a shock to my system.

[melrich]

I just wanted to say I agree with Jaded, in that the type of men whom would actually do this are not the kind I would want to be with anyway.

 

No one would want to be.

 

'my man wouldn't do that, he's just not that type' and are then shocked and devastated when they find out he's been having an affair.

 

That's what happens. People who are saying "Oh I wouldn't go out with someone like that" are missing the point. Men change. Any of the wives I have seen left for someone else never thought it could possibly happen. And the men weren't used car salesmen.

 

Grokker made some very good points and this conversation should be far deeper than "I wouldn't be attracted to someone like that anyway."

 

There is a vulnerability for many people in their 40's. In my country anyway it is the most divorced age group.

[RayKay]

Of course they are a threat, if you think they are not, then you are in a dream world or are overly confident. It is good to have that threat though because it makes you work for each other's attention, makes you keep in shape and be sexy. So it is a necessary evil.

 

I don't stay in shape because of a "threat". I stay in shape because I enjoy physical activity - I am a passionate runner, cyclist, racer....

 

I also work on our relationship because I WANT too, because I love him and that is what you do when you love someone.

 

More to the staying in shape thing. My boyfriend is also an athlete, and he also stays in shape for himself.

 

Looking good for one another is a great perk of it, I do love him and DO want to look my best for him. But I do not believe in the idea of taking care of yourself to "get" someone, than getting comfortable, but I think it should be really more about yourself and what feels good to you than about feeling "threatened". I would not want to be with someone where I felt "threatened" by others.

 

I feel this way about anything I do - about my education, career. I always keep my partner in mind of course, and our relationship IS a priority for me. I discuss things with him when I am contemplating big changes/decisions (as he does with me) but that internal reasoning really must still be for yourself.

[RayKay]

No one would want to be.

 

 

 

That's what happens. People who are saying "Oh I wouldn't go out with someone like that" are missing the point. Men change. Any of the wives I have seen left for someone else never thought it could possibly happen. And the men weren't used car salesmen.

 

Grokker made some very good points and this conversation should be far deeper than "I wouldn't be attracted to someone like that anyway."

 

There is a vulnerability for many people in their 40's. In my country anyway it is the most divorced age group.

 

 

I did not say I would not be "attracted to someone like this" as you never know.

 

My father was a cheater; he left my mother for his mistress when she was 7 months pregnant with their third child. She never imagined he would either. The mistress (now my stepmother) was not younger by the way.

 

The point is not that I would never "end up with someone" whom did this (not that If feel my boyfriend would....it really is not his value system at all); it is that I would not stay with someone like this, and no, I would not want them anymore.

 

 

I don't think the divorce rates indicate that men must be leaving wives all the time for "newer models"; I read a statistic that in 75% of divorces after 40 or something, it is women whom initiate it (after kids grown, etc).

[Miss Firecracker]

Men change. Any of the wives I have seen left for someone else never thought it could possibly happen.

 

Those women probably trusted their husbands 100%. That is something I could never do with any man on earth. I think my husband wouldn't do that, but do I really know? Does he even know? I know it is against his belief system to behave that way. But many times temptation overrides everything a person believes in. The man could do this and cry each night, being ashamed of himself the whole time.

[JadedStar]

Those women probably trusted their husbands 100%. That is something I could never do with any man on earth. I think my husband wouldn't do that, but do I really know? Does he even know? I know it is against his belief system to behave that way. But many times temptation overrides everything a person believes in. The man could do this and cry each night, being ashamed of himself the whole time.

 

I know some people call us cynical Miss F but you and I are in the same camp.

 

The difference between me and you and some other women is we don't ever say never. To be honest I think it is far more likely it would be someone closer to his own age. WOuldn't make it less painful.

 

I would never say my husband would never cheat on me. We just don't know what tomorrow holds.

 

Like you said all we can do is try to find people with the same belief system and hope that temptation doesn't override logic.

[midnightrambler]

Those women probably trusted their husbands 100%. That is something I could never do with any man on earth. I think my husband wouldn't do that, but do I really know? Does he even know? I know it is against his belief system to behave that way. But many times temptation overrides everything a person believes in. The man could do this and cry each night, being ashamed of himself the whole time.

 

 

you are correct, you don't really know.....my brother has had numerous affairs with younger women, including strippers.....his wife never dreamed that could happen

[Batya33]

"He was blubbering on about how he hasn't been able to work out in two weeks and he promises to keep his body in the lovely shape that I fell in love with. (so cute) I exercise weekly not just because of my boyfriend, but I know he loves my body and he fell in love with this body so why would I go and change it on him. And I am SO glad he feels the same way."

 

I would never be with anyone who would not love me if I gained some weight (I am thin) or was not in the shape I was when we met (i.e. less toned, less buff, whatever, hypothetically speaking). Obviously there are extremes but if I felt like I'd better work out for the reasons your bf gave I would go for counseling or at least ask a close trusted friend to knock some sense into me. Then again I come from a perspective of having recovered from a mild eating disorder and knowing what it was like to be obsessed with food and exercise.

 

Women who get pregnant often lose their shape somewhat - unless they want to get obsessed with excercise/eating (which I choose not to - life's too short) so if I dated someone who fell in love with me because of the particular shape/body I had when we met I would not see it as long term. It would feel very temporary/transient.

 

And people get ill and lose or gain a lot of weight all at once. What a horrible feeling it would be for me to worry, in addition to being sick, that my husband would not be as in love with me because I gained or lost a signficant amount of weight - even temporarily.

 

I do agree with RK that one factor of many to be motivated to stay in shape is to look good for your bf/spouse but that is not the same as being motivated by "ooh he fell in love with me because of the way I particularly looked then so I'd better keep it up" because then you can never wear no makeup, wear schlumpy clothes around the house for fear that that image he fell in love with might not be the same if you're not keeping yourself up 100%.

 

To each her own.....

[Natty7]

Those women probably trusted their husbands 100%. That is something I could never do with any man on earth. I think my husband wouldn't do that, but do I really know? Does he even know? I know it is against his belief system to behave that way. But many times temptation overrides everything a person believes in. The man could do this and cry each night, being ashamed of himself the whole time.

 

I am wary to trust 100% also. But then again, I don't want to not trust my significant other fully... catch 22.

 

I feel that when I do get married I should be able to trust 100% though, vows are said aloud and I sometimes feel that I am naive to believe in them and hold as much credence in those vows than I should. When I speak to friends, and even strangers like you, some of you hold this notion that it can end and I have to be prepared for that. I know I am naive, but I don't want that to be the case.

 

Any advice Firecracker?

[Natty7]

Everything is not so black and white Batya.

[Natty7]

Of course looks are not EVERYTHING in a relationship, but it's nice to know that your partner wants to look good for you.

 

That was the kicker that I think you omitted, purposely or accidentally, I am not sure.

[RayKay]

Yes, of course you have to accommodate for illness and other serious issues. My mother for example has had dramatic weight loss (unhealthy) due to chemo, and now weight gain (bloating) due to tamoxifen drugs she is on for her cancer. She definitely maintains a healthy lifestyle to best she can (she bikes, walks, runs, dances) but she will not be able to have the body she had when they first met ever again (not only did she lose her breasts, but the drugs are going to have a permanent impact on her now). My stepfather adores her and still thinks she is beautiful.

 

If something like that were to happen to my partner, I would still love him as it is about far more than his shape, and I do believe that goes the other way too (he once told me he would still love me even if I had "chicken cutlets" (fake breasts to use when you lose your breasts due to cancer) which is good, as the chances are high I may go through that in my not-that-distant future due to family history.

 

That being said, I still will try my damnest to stay healthy for me, and to look good for him too, for the remainder of our days

[RayKay]

Those women probably trusted their husbands 100%. That is something I could never do with any man on earth. I think my husband wouldn't do that, but do I really know? Does he even know? I know it is against his belief system to behave that way. But many times temptation overrides everything a person believes in. The man could do this and cry each night, being ashamed of himself the whole time.

 

Hmm, I think that is assuming they trusted their partner 100%. They may not have at all, or they may have somewhat, or they may have entirely. Only they know.

 

You can NOT trust a partner at all, or not a full 100% at least, and they can still cheat.

 

I don't think correlating trusting someone 100% relates to them cheating (or not).

[Natty7]

Yes, of course you have to accommodate for illness and other serious issues.

 

Agreed with the same enthusiasm. Of Course! I fell in love with a great man and I believe would he not only accommodate he would do everything in his power to take care of me.

 

I think if two people are genuinely in love, this is an issue that need not be addressed. The answer is simple and unspoken but shared.

[Miss Firecracker]

No, I didn't mean that it correlates. I'm saying that many times people do trust 100% only to find out the partner wasn't trustworthy.

 

I think a sign you can't trust a man is if he wants to date you for many years but will never mention marriage. If 10 years drag on without a commitment, I'd take that as a sign that he is waiting for a better option in the future.

[RayKay]

Agreed with the same enthusiasm. Of Course! I fell in love with a great man and I believe would he not only accommodate he would do everything in his power to take care of me.

 

I think if two people are genuinely in love, this is an issue that need not be addressed. The answer is simple and unspoken but shared.

 

I am not sure if it's nothing something that should not be addressed (or need not be). I can say we have talked about things like that, mainly as we live together and have had to talk about "what if's" in terms of health care directives and the like.

 

It's not a fun topic, but I find it pretty essential.

 

I do know couples whom did not talk about things like that, and when facing serious illness, it turned out one had decided they had not signed up for that at all (I know both a person with M.S. and one whom has breast cancer, and another whom had bone cancer and lost a leg, whose partners all left them during the early stages as they could not "deal with it").

[Natty7]

That is terrible RayKay. I guess what I meant is we constantly talk about our morals, beliefs, views, etc. In doing that we have created a solid level of intimacy to where I can honestly say, that without asking him, I know that he would be there.

[Batya33]

Everything is not so black and white Batya.

 

Yes I agree. Nothing in my post presumed it was - my posts are always in shades of gray, of course - "with some exceptions" is one of my favorite phrases on these boards. What I did comment on was your focus and your bf's focus on believing that since you each fell in love with the particular looks and body you had at the time you needed to stay that way in order to maintain the "in love" part of your relationship.

 

I agree with RK that abstract talk about values and intimacy only goes so far given decisions that may need to be made about pregnancy (or terminating one, let's say if there is down's syndrome, etc), illness, lifestyle changes, finances, etc. It is far easier to talk in the abstract but essential to get specific on certain topics.

[RayKay]

No, I didn't mean that it correlates. I'm saying that many times people do trust 100% only to find out the partner wasn't trustworthy.

 

I think a sign you can't trust a man is if he wants to date you for many years but will never mention marriage. If 10 years drag on without a commitment, I'd take that as a sign that he is waiting for a better option in the future.

 

Well, that depends highly on the circumstances. Here, with common-law, if you live together three years you ARE considered married for example - all the same legal ramifications (and I would say it has even more - for example it takes longer to get "un-married" than it does if you are ACTUALLy married - if actually married it is when you get divorce, if common-law it takes three years of NOT living together to be considered "un-married")

 

My parents, whom I mentioned earlier on this thread, are not married - been together 22+ years. Raising children together, traveling together, going through serious life-threatening illnesses, dealing with ex-spouses, blending families, economic uncertainties.......I certainly don't think either of them are "waiting for a better option"! They love one another, and don't see marriage as necessary to that.

 

Not everyone sees marriage as the "ultimate" form of commitment or necessary for commitment.