What would you do if a married woman asked you out for dinner?

[Batya33]

I cannot imagine accepting a date with anyone, no matter how "famous" or "hot" not only because I am in a committed relationship but also because I have no desire to go on a date with someone - much less be intimate with someone! - just because he is "hot" or some sort of "trophy." My boyfriend feels the same way.

[rs.dallaire]

All that I'm saying is that marriage works but only for a limited number of people. And that number of people is shrinking every year due to the way that society has evolved. It's not an opinion that I'm stating, these are the bare facts.

 

I will stop providing updates on this situation as it seems to have created quite a bit of turmoil. Almost everyone's feedback was constructive and appreciated - thank you for your contribution.

 

My final question to all of you is the following. Are you happy? Are you truly happy? You don't need to post an answer. Just think about it.

[Batya33]

yes and for those who it does not work they can either not take those vows or get divorced. Staying and cheating is not justified just because it ends up "not working" for that particular person. When you're an adult blaming "society" on why your marriage isn't working also doesn't justify cheating. Especially with children involved - they didn't ask to be born, they didn't ask to be subjected to that kind of harmful environment.

 

One of the reasons I am happy is because I live and act consistently with what I consider to be a high set of morals, standards and ethics. it was not only how i was raised, it's what I chose on my own as an adult even in very challenging situations. And thereforeeee I attract people in my life who do the same. short term gratification at the expense of morals/standards/values would lead to short term happiness and long term angst which is never fun.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

All that I'm saying is that marriage works but only for a limited number of people. And that number of people is shrinking every year due to the way that society has evolved. It's not an opinion that I'm stating, these are the bare facts.

 

I will stop providing updates on this situation as it seems to have created quite a bit of turmoil. Almost everyone's feedback was constructive and appreciated.

 

My final question to all of you is the following. Are you happy? Are you truly happy? Think about it.

 

 

Marriage may not always work, but that means you take measures to GET OUT OF THE MARRIAGE before turning your sights elsewhere. Happy or unhappy is not the point when it is question of doing something that is not above board. Nobody is happy 100% of the time...cheating may provide temporary happiness but it is based on illusion and quickly disintegrates into unhappiness.

[LifesontheUp]

The OP is in France. My understanding of the french is that they are very open to extramarital affairs......they do not see them as an issue as perhaps other countries do.

 

When it came out about Jacques Chiracs affairs, the news broke as headlines everywhere apart from France.

 

OP - I thinking you are fooling yourself that'll be just a "fling". Go and read posts on other forums where other men and other women started out feeling like that but soon it became more. They were then left in tears and despair when the affair came out and the husband/wife wouldn't leave for them. Perhaps I'll see you on one of those forums one day.

[Batya33]

Nothing wrong with an open marriage if both adults are cool with it - this is cheating. There's a difference.

[LifesontheUp]

Nothing wrong with an open marriage if both adults are cool with it - this is cheating. There's a difference.

 

I agree with you it is most definitely cheating. However from my friends in france I understand that affairs to them are no big deal. I don't suppose that is correct for everyone living there and in a marriage/relationship. However I think it may explain the attitude that appears to be prevalent with the OP and the company he keeps. Just my opinion.

[bpsekh]

I've never been in this situation before and would appreciate your input.

 

I recently went for lunch with a new co-worker. She is married so to me it was just lunch and nothing else.

 

Before we went back to the office she mentioned we should do dinner next time.

 

If you were in my shoes, how would you view this invitation?

 

R

 

In order to avoid confusion and conflict, a married people should not entertain the opposite sex in a private manner without the spouse knowing beforehand, and without their consent. They should not accept gifts from strangers without approval to avoid jealousy or suspicion.

 

I think that if you accepted the offer, then you need to:

1. Pay for your check individually
   
2. Request or offer that her husband be present
   
3. If you go alone with her, then you need to be attentive to her words so that you can deduce her intentions.
   

[rs.dallaire]

I'm not here to support infidelity or claim that it's not destructive.

 

As far as I know, America has one of the highest divorce rates in the world. Nearly half the country supports the party whose last President had less than perfect morals. As far as I can tell, nobody pities Mrs. Clinton, who I think is a smart and beautiful woman.

 

Infidelity might be viewed as trahison but it is more specifically a symptom of a relationship that is not entirely satisfying. I don't mean to provoke anyone by stating that a model that fails more than half the time is a dysfunctional one.

 

Like most people, I am looking for a life partner who I can raise a couple of kids with. I haven't met her yet but in the mean time, I enjoy life at its fullest. I can go in a marriage and ignore the realities of today's world. Or I can accept the imperfections of life and deal with my expectations.

 

There are many issues underlying an affair and sometimes "working on it" and "seeing a therapist" won't do it. There are reasons why they won't get a divorce and these reasons are a lot more complex than just "she's a cheater", "she has no integrity" or "she's weak".

 

Infidelity is a MASSIVE issue. America's way of dealing with things is to set rules. The bigger the issue, the tougher the rule. Emotions aren't about rules though and unless the Talibans take over the world in the next couple of years, infidelity and divorce will continue to be on the upswing.

[Batya33]

The more verbage, psychobabble and statistics you write -- and the more rationalizations/justifications to participate in an affair, the more you support the points of those of us who have concisely pointed out that deciding not to marry in the first place or divorce or inquiring as to an open marriage is always an alternative and thereforeeee cheating cannot be justified.

 

Thanks for the validation.

[wiser]

This thread brings out a lot of interesting points regarding an affair, perhaps the most important one being, how much of the affair is the responsibility of the OW/OM?

 

Like the OP correctly said, if its not him its going to be someone else. The problem in this case is with the marriage, with the wife, who is going to stray regardless. He's single, she's approaching him, he could probably make the case that its not his fault that the womans husband is not meeting her needs, that they have a communication breakdown, and the affair is just a symptom of a troubled marriage and its not his fault, nor his problem.

[Batya33]

I completely agree that the married person has far more of a moral responsibility here. But the OP is participating in hurting her husband and children.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

Well, if the Taliban take over the world, divorce may be on the downswing but infidelity won't...the men will continue to have affairs as long as they are very discreet, and the women will be stoned if they do.

 

Also, just because lots of people are cheating, doesn't make it right. You don't have to have a "well if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" attitude. If a person doesn't want to get a divorce for whatever reason, that's their choice but then they can't have it all, lover and remain in marriage, unless they are willing to discuss it with their spouse and both agree to an open marriage where neither wants a divorce and both are free to have as many bits on the side as they want.

 

By the way, if you go ahead and have this fling with the married woman, it shows that you yourself don't have any dignity or self-respect because you are willing to settle for sloppy seconds.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

This thread brings out a lot of interesting points regarding an affair, perhaps the most important one being, how much of the affair is the responsibility of the OW/OM?

 

Like the OP correctly said, if its not him its going to be someone else. The problem in this case is with the marriage, with the wife, who is going to stray regardless. He's single, she's approaching him, he could probably make the case that its not his fault that the womans husband is not meeting her needs, that they have a communication breakdown, and the affair is just a symptom of a troubled marriage and its not his fault, nor his problem.

 

Person A and person B are walking by a bank and person A decides to rob the bank. Person B stays outside and has no part in robbing the bank..in fact he walks to the next block to get away from it all and waits for Person A over there. Person A successfully robs the bank and catches up with Person B. Person A goes on just ahead and within view of Person B accidentally on purpose drops a wad of stolen money on the ground which Person B promptly picks up. Is Person B innocent because he didn't actually go inside and physically rob the bank?

 

Same kind of thing here. Just because it is not your spouse, doesn't make your actions any less morally reprehensible.

[Batya33]

No but in the bank robbery example both participants have an equal obligation not to break the laws concerning stealing. In the marital example, the unmarried person does not have the obligation to stay faithful or to make sure he doesn't participate in her breaking her vows. He is not committing adultery but in the bank robbery example, the law treats the accomplice as if he were the one who did the physical acts of breaking in.

 

However, by his actions he is facilitating her breaking her vows - she is breaking the actual law (rather than both breaking the law in the other example) and he is helping her do it.

[wiser]

He is not committing adultery but in the bank robbery example, the law treats the accomplice as if he were the one who did the physical acts of breaking in.

 

However, by his actions he is facilitating her breaking her vows - she is breaking the actual law (rather than both breaking the law in the other example) and he is helping her do it.

 

Good post, not only because it mostly agrees with me. One point though, adultery is not against "the law", at least in the US, as far as I know. It's simply a breach of the marital bond and is grounds for divorce in states that still require "fault".

[Batya33]

Sorry- you are right - it is not against the law, it simply violates the marital contract (and most religious marriages as well). Sorry to misspeak. I am far more focused on the immorality/unethical nature of it than the violation of the contract (and also of course that married people typically expect to be honored and showered with presents and oohed and ahhed over - but that is in exchange for making a commitment that includes not having sex outside the marriage.

[JadedStar]

Like the OP correctly said, if its not him its going to be someone else. The problem in this case is with the marriage, with the wife, who is going to stray regardless. He's single, she's approaching him, he could probably make the case that its not his fault that the womans husband is not meeting her needs, that they have a communication breakdown, and the affair is just a symptom of a troubled marriage and its not his fault, nor his problem.

 

I agree it is not his fault but if he moved forward and had sex with her then it is his problem as well. If his morals allow it with no guilt, more power to him. If the husband found out he won't be an innocent bystander. People have been shot for this sort of thing. He will forever be the OM to that woman's husband.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

That was really the point I was trying to make with my analogy of the bank robbery...if you agree to participate in something that you know is not right then you are no longer an innocent bystander and have to face the consequences.

[JadedStar]

That was really the point I was trying to make with my analogy of the bank robbery...if you agree to participate in something that you know is not right then you are no longer an innocent bystander and have to face the consequences.

 

LOL i never even saw your post only read the last page. But yep, i agree 100%. We tend to agree on a lot of topics.

[Batya33]

I completely agree - especially when there are children involved and especially since the OP might end up a daddy through this affair. Imagine that.

[Rum]

The OP is in France. My understanding of the french is that they are very open to extramarital affairs......they do not see them as an issue as perhaps other countries do.

 

When it came out about Jacques Chiracs affairs, the news broke as headlines everywhere apart from France.

 

OP - I thinking you are fooling yourself that'll be just a "fling". Go and read posts on other forums where other men and other women started out feeling like that but soon it became more. They were then left in tears and despair when the affair came out and the husband/wife wouldn't leave for them. Perhaps I'll see you on one of those forums one day.

 

 

 

Could not have been said better. They all start out innocently. But in rs' case it seems both are 'players' so it is a bit different. But the bottom line is it's a no-win scenario, so why even bother?

 

rs made some good points in some earlier posts explaining why women should feel they can play around, if they are attractive and independent, and need excitement.

 

you see rs, we should be mortal enemies you and i, but i wrote down in my previous post that i would not do that and judge you, but i don't agree with what you are doing.

my case is still too fresh, yes i have a very beautiful wife, a "hottie" if you will, and i'm not saying that because she's my wife. but she always took great care of herself and is beautiful with a very close to 10 bod. I'm lucky.

She also has a high profile job, so independent.

And yes, she had an affair, with a man like you who didn't care about the husband or the kid involved. The difference in her affair is it took forever to start, started very slowly as friends and then moved from there. She's not attracted to him at all, and he has what could be said is an annoying personality. (all confirmed) But she liked 1 thing only, his charm. So it took 6 months to have lunches together, then a few odd kisses, then really intimate in the last few months.

She is now coming out of 2 weeks crying in bed feeling like dirt, shame, guilt and can NOT believe what she did, and is still almost physically ill when she talks about it. Yes it's that bad. I'm dealing much better in fact.

 

Will it work for us? dunno. But I HAVE the choice now. What she should have done if she was so unhappy is separate from me, then go have her fling.

 

In your case she is the predator, yet so many do not agree you should pursue her. I agree too. She should just terminate her marriage and then fool around. Otherwise what can you gain from this?

Sleep with her once? Then it will be twice, then more. You will want more. At one point you will want her just for yourself. She will say NO, because she's having her cake and eating it too.

Or maybe she will say YES, leave her husband for you. Then what? Then she will have you steady as backup and go do her predatory act with someone else to fill her 'excitement' need. It won't be fun with you anymore because it isn't hidden.

 

So why bother with all this? It never works out. Never.

 

That's why in my previous post i said this thread was so fascinating. We are all seeing the denial answers and justifications LIVE before our eyes as the affair starts. But the rest of us are here because we have seen how they all end! It's laughable!

That's why i also said i don't resent you rs. I know what's coming!

 

You said you were not going to followup anymore, i hope you do. Because for the next month, 6 months, 1 year you will be able to rub it in our faces, but then something will happen and it won't be as funny anymore. We've all seen the end of this movie.

 

Please keep posting, i need my daily fix.

 

--Rum

[Rum]

But again, having said all that, i don't recall if she has children.

Also, if she and her husband have an "open" relationship, then it is not cheating. I don't recall you mentioning these details rs.

 

Does the husband know she goes out for fun once in while? Even if he doesn't know or care with who it is. Because maybe that's what they do.

 

If these things were known, the replies in these posts would be a lot different as the circumstances would be changed.

 

Keep posting rs! I need my fix!

 

--Rum

[rs.dallaire]

Hi Rum,

 

Thanks for your posts. Let me give you another perspective.

 

I bet you things were getting a bit too comfortable at home and you started to pay less attention to your wife. She probably mentioned it a number of times and like most males you didn't think it was too serious. Frustration started to build up and soon your wife was in the danger zone.

 

For your wife to feel the guilt and everything else, she had to go through what she went through. Not the most pleasant thing for you but if she hadn't done that she'd still be wondering what the heck she should do. She had gone past the point of no return BEFORE hooking up with that guy.

 

Most people don't go to therapy until it's too late. Therapy can do wonders but if your mind is already elsewhere, it can be really difficult to re-focus.

 

Some people view this as high trahison. Fine. I think your wife cheated on you because she wasn't sure how she felt about you. She didn't want to break up with you and cause your family all of this pain but meanwhile she was too emotionally unhappy to remain passive.

 

If she were sure that she didn't love you, she would've left. While you were very hurt by your wife's actions, you are now in the driver's seat: you know your wife was unhappy and you know she still cares for you. You can thereforeeee gauge whether the situation is worth it for you. Had she not cheated on you, she would've kept her frustrations and then she would've simply dumped you.

 

In a perfect world of high morals I'd tell you she should've dumped you before screwing with the guy. But * * * * happens and it happens for a reason. When a woman cheats on a man, what matters is that she was unhappy.

 

I lied when I said I had never been in this situation before. In fact, I have been a number of times. I got hurt, like in any relationship. Not every encounter is meant to become a long term relationship.

 

Most business women who I interact with, married or not, want to go out with me. I'm an average looking executive with superior listening skills. A number of women were willing to lie to their husbands just to spend a bit of time with me. I don't indulge unless the lady seems exceptional.

 

The world is a lot less perfect than you might want it to be. I'm not justifying anyone's actions, I am just describing society as it is.

 

Call me a jerk, call me anything you want. I'll take it like a man.

 

But if your wife is pretty and you've been married 5+ years (and have possibly had a kid or two), you're already in the danger zone. Unless she is truly exceptionally ethical (or unless you are an exceptionally conservative couple), temptation will be everywhere. These women can get any man, any time.

 

Infidelity is an important issue that deserves our attention. It is however not by saying "don't do it" that you'll solve the problem.

 

I am simply challenging everyone on a topic that's been debated for ages. You can call me a jerk, or you can come up with constructive arguments that go beyond "but she promised that she'd be faithful" or "cheating is bad bad bad" or "work on it harder, buddy" or "get a good therapist".

 

If 0.5% of the population were cheating, you could view cheaters as an anomaly and address the situation by targeting those individuals specifically. But when there are more people cheating than there are people smoking cigarettes, you've got to wonder about the system.

[LifesontheUp]

If 0.5% of the population were cheating, you could view cheaters as an anomaly and address the situation by targeting those individuals specifically. But when there are more people cheating than there are people smoking cigarettes, you've got to wonder about the system.

 

Haven't got time for a longer reply but just wondering where you get your figures from?