I am dating a puppy dog. And I don’t think I can keep it up.

[grymoire]

I read from her posts that he was insecure, clingy and had no backbone. The opposite is not someone who treats a person badly, the opposite is someone who is assertive and is unafraid to stand up for himself and respects himself. When someone is nice to me out of being needy and wanting approval I consider that too selfish and not very nice.

 

Actually no.... when you treat a person well all the time they tend to take it for granted and take advantage of you. That's human nature....

 

That's why it's good to ill-treat the girl you are dating some times. Otherwise she will lose respect for you and come to ENA and complain that you are spineless and unmanly.

[Batya33]

Actually no.... when you treat a person well all the time they tend to take it for granted and take advantage of you. That's human nature....

 

That's why it's good to ill-treat the girl you are dating some times. Otherwise she will lose respect for you and come to ENA and complain that you are spineless and unmanly.

 

Maybe a clue as to why you're not too successful with women? Ill-treatment doesn't show assertiveness and playing games like that is ridiculous. Being assertive means being reasonable but firm about your boundaries. Treating someone badly typically means you've lost control - a sign of weakness, not strength.

 

I lose respect for people who let others walk all over them. I also lose respect for people who resort to yelling or meanness to get their way.

[grymoire]

Maybe a clue as to why you're not too successful with women? Ill-treatment doesn't show assertiveness and playing games like that is ridiculous. Being assertive means being reasonable but firm about your boundaries. Treating someone badly typically means you've lost control - a sign of weakness, not strength.

 

I lose respect for people who let others walk all over them. I also lose respect for people who resort to yelling or meanness to get their way.

 

Then why are jerks so successful with women? They treat women like garbage and even cheat but don't girls flock to them?

 

Even in my own case that girl rejected me and went for a jerk that ill-treated her to the point where she said "how can some one treat another human being like this?".. he also cheated on her throughout the relationship... and finally he threw her into jail.

 

But he was the boyfriend, not me

 

PS:

Maybe a clue as to why you're not too successful with women?

 

U r very rude and insulting to me..... U r picking up my failures and hit me where it pains me the most....

[Batya33]

If you don't like my responses then give some thought to why you choose to generalize and focus on negativity and hostility towards women in your posts.

 

Men who are jerks "get" women who are insecure and/or settle for jerky treatment for their own personal unstable reasons. I don't consider those to be healthy or balanced relationships so to me that is not at all a measure of success.

[NewPhillyGuy]

That's why it's good to ill-treat the girl you are dating some times.

 

I don't agree with this. If the girl loses respect, the guy should move on, not mistreat her. He would be lowering himself to her level.

[grymoire]

If you don't like my responses then give some thought to why you choose to generalize and focus on negativity and hostility towards women in your posts.

 

i am not being negative and hostile.... it is u that is calling me a sexist just because your opinions don't jive with mine... and also it u that is rudely rubbing salt in my wounds by saying that i am a failure with women...

[grymoire]

I don't agree with this. If the girl loses respect, the guy should move on, not mistreat her. He would be lowering himself to her level.

 

if he mistreats her then she won't leave him... she will respect him and cling to him harder.... begging him to love her....

[Batya33]

i am not being negative and hostile.... it is u that is calling me a sexist just because your opinions don't jive with mine... and also it u that is rudely rubbing salt in my wounds by saying that i am a failure with women...

 

Thanks for sharing your interpretation - you can continue to twist what I say so you can play the victim but all that does is make it even more apparent that you'd prefer to retreat into the comfort of negativity than work on losing that attitude.

As you know, I simply wrote that your comments were sexist and I suggested that if you keep up the negativity you will continue to have a hard time finding a relationship of any sort. Most people I know tire of people who are constantly bitter or negative. If the way you post with your constant one-note "women just want jerks" is the way you interact with women then it is highly unlikely a woman with her act together will find that attitude appealing. Negativity - whether expressed or I sensed it - was the number one reason I would decline to date a man when I was unattached. My positive suggestion is to work on losing the attitude.

[gradle]

ok ok

i don't want this thread to be a battle ground

and let me clear a few things up here please.

1. i did not intend to indicate that when i said i want the "opportunity to turn him down" physically, that i was trying to hurt him in any way or show myself something. but i want him to make a move with me physically so i know he's physically attracted to me. even though i'm not yet ready to have sex, it's nice to know when someone is sexually attracted to you. that's not odd. it's not evil. its not immature. it's normal. but he is too shy to even try. i have NO idea where i stand with him sexually.

 

2. i do NOT like guys who treat me like crap. my long term boyfriend (my ex) was WONDERFUL to me. he was calling me 5 times a day, coming over all the time, being just amazing. and it was amazing for years. but he was smart, he was more assertive, he was amazing. i just knew. that's a feeling i doubt i'll have again. so i think i should give other guys more shots. really sweet ones that i know will stick around, just to see if it could work, if i could get that spark. that's not evil. i know plenty of unassuming guys, who do have backbone, and that MAKES them sexy. and they're strong and confident.

 

3. you guys can call me what you want. i don't particularly care. i'm not here to please you. i'm here to share my thoughts on what's going on in my life and others and to try to get constructive feedback to help me make better decisions.

 

4. if you guys had realized that i posted this before i met the new guy, you would realize that it's been troubling me for a while. and you know what. i have a feeling that although i think the new guy is great, it probably wont' work out. but i STILL plan on breaking up with the puppy dog. (which i will do once it has been an appropriate amount of time).

 

5. i only dump jerks. i don't date them.

 

6. i'm realizing that just b/c someone is wonderful and available. does NOT mean you have to be with them.

 

7. and why is it that several of the women who have replied understand these points, but what seems like the males that have replied just get angry?

[Batya33]

Because the men who replied are not able to handle rejection and so they make up a story that it is because they are too nice and for "evidence" they point to those women who seem to go for men who treat them badly. I've had my fair share of rejections - maybe even more than my fair share - and my ego was able to handle it especially if it was someone I just met or met recently. I was cool with the fact that a particular man might not desire me romantically or physically even if I found him attractive. That's life and the alternative - to avoid rejection by not dating - was not palatable to me.

 

Why do you think it won't work out with the new guy?

[gradle]

it's silly. but i'm pretty liberal, and....well, he's pretty conservative. and i don't think he's out to just get laid or anything, but i can tell he's pretty focused on how "things look". which is fun. i want to give him a chance. i know he's really smart and quirky, so i might be misreading him. and he's been nothing but a gentleman (not a jerk!). but i'm nervous that maybe we're on opposite sides of the spectrum. but i am so attracted to him. but i wonder how he'll behave if say, something bad happened to me. like would he really be in love with me to stick through something bad with me if it were to happen?

 

i know it's silly and too early to ask questions like that right now. but it's something i like to keep in the back of my mind.

[Batya33]

Well, sure you want to be with someone who cares but what does his being conservative have to do with whether he would be there for you if you were hurt?

[gradle]

b/c i know where grew up. it's a very superficial area. and i know it' s "superficial" of me to say he's the same way, but he seems to idolize that area a bit. so i'm worried that even if he cares about me. if something were to happen to me, and say i look drastically different or whatever, could he ever really care enough about me to stick around?

 

see...this is why i have issues. i ask these questions so early on that it creates early doubts and i sabotage the relationships in my mind before they have a chance to flourish or perish

[Batya33]

That's a pretty big leap from "it's a superficial area, he likes the area, thereforeeee he must be superficial" - has all sorts of assumptions in it when you have little facts to back it up. Just my opinion - obviously no obligation to date him if you feel you're not on the same wavelength but it's a pretty quick judgment to make (I made my fair share of quick judgments when I was dating!)

[gradle]

oh! i'm definitely going to keep dating him. i haven't been this attracted to a guy (looks, quirkiness, sweetness) in ages! so i want to give him a shot. i worry too b/c he reminds me a bit of my ex. and i don't want to get hurt in going down that road again. even though i would do it all over again in a heart beat. but i don't want to date someone who reminds me of my ex, you know? like that's kind of weird.

 

but maybe that's just what i'm attracted to in the end?

[NewPhillyGuy]

ok ok

 

i want him to make a move with me physically so i know he's physically attracted to me. even though i'm not yet ready to have sex, it's nice to know when someone is sexually attracted to you. that's not odd. it's not evil. its not immature. it's normal. but he is too shy to even try. i have NO idea where i stand with him sexually.

 

This is strange. You want him to make a move on you, perhaps sexual, although you intend on rejecting it, just to know that he's attracted to you? Sounds like you are insecure.

 

You don't even want this guy, I thought.

 

Seems like you don't know what you want. Hey, to each his own. For me, it would be too many weird mind games. Perhaps this guy has no backbone, because I would have dumped you flat in light of this type of nonsense. Just my two.

 

and Batya, I can handle rejection fine myself. There are some clear differences opinion here, and that's fine.

 

I think that if a guy came up with a thread about his g/f, and he talked about wanting to dump her because:

 

a) she was very nice, offered to cook him dinner 3x a week and he wanted more time with his friends/alone time

b) did some quirky things - maybe she had a nervous twitch in her left eye

c) had a slight speech disorder, so slurred some of her words

d) was insecure and cried to him about not feeling pretty enough for him, but he got angry and said she was too needy/whiny

 

and then the guy talked about meeting some new girl, but not telling the current g/f yet, I am SURE you would have women flocking to this thread with the fire of hell in their words.

 

I think it's pretty clear why the males are getting frustrated and taking it personally. I wrote a few charged threads myself, because I read some things that set me off. I am sure the females would do the same in the case of the above.

 

So, let's everyone chill back and understand and respect the differences in point of view here.

[toshiba]

Because the men who replied are not able to handle rejection and so they make up a story that it is because they are too nice and for "evidence" they point to those women who seem to go for men who treat them badly. I've had my fair share of rejections - maybe even more than my fair share - and my ego was able to handle it especially if it was someone I just met or met recently. I was cool with the fact that a particular man might not desire me romantically or physically even if I found him attractive. That's life and the alternative - to avoid rejection by not dating - was not palatable to me.

 

 

 

Yeah, what she said! Guys try to make it not personal to themselves and attribute it instead to women not wanting "nice" guys.

 

So what if he's wonderful in certain ways? You don't like him. End of story.

He's also annoying. A guy can be wonderful in many ways, but if he's annoying in a lot of other ways then it's not more fun than being with a jerk.

[gradle]

i would say to end it with her. if you're not attracted then just end it. anyways, guys do break up with girls all the time b/c they're like that. i'm not saying it's right, but it happens.

but it's not wrong to want to try to date new kinds of people. to see if it can work out even if things aren't right. that's not evil.

 

but i haven't told the new guy yet b/c i think it's cruel to do that when he just found out someone really close to him has died. that would SUCK. i'm really just trying to be cautious of his feelings. i did call him two nights ago adn tried to do it.

[grymoire]

Hi Batya,

 

Ok I am sorry for the way I am coming accross... I do agree that I am currently very frustrated and feel very negative. I am looking for some encouragement and some hope. Personally I got very affected by my friend that seemed to behave EXACTLY in the way the "nice guy" articles sound. Right when I met her I expressed my romantic interests and got shot down. I was NOT her friend for a while and then asked for a date. She shot me down but chose a guy that was a total jerk.. mistreated her... never gave her commitment... cheated on her.. and finally put her in prison. But she was with him for almost 1 year. I practically saw in real life what was written in the "nice guy" articles - Women will reject nice guys and cling on to jerks that treat them badly. Can you see where I am coming from? And also if you look at this thread the OP is saying she hates her bf because he is too nice. All these things frustrate me and I started becoming bitter.

 

But I do know that while it "feels" that way it is not reality! So please accept my apologies. Reading on the internet and seeing in real life tends to reinforce the bitter fact that women really go for the jerks. BUT I do understand that may be some but not all are like that.

 

Again... I am sorry. And yes I will work on my attitude

 

G

[gradle]

ok

that's it

please read my posts.

I'm NOT saying that i hate this guy (he's not my boyfriend, we were just dating!!!) b/c he's TOO nice. i would never say that.

i don't hate him.

i think he's awesome.

i think he's not the right guy for me.

and the main reason i can't date him is that he has no backbone, how do you look up to anyone (guy or girl) who has no backbone.

 

i'm sick of people twisting my words!

[Batya33]

It depends how you define "nice" - if "nice" means being at her beck and call, complimenting her, etc even though she wasn't reciprocating that kind of interest that sounds a bit clingy to me which often is a turn off.

 

Instead of focusing on "nice" focus on being a good listener, a good friend, and work on your self-esteem so that you come accross as someone assertive who respects himself. Good friend means being unafraid to set limits and boundaries so that the other person doesn't feel like or doesn't take advantage of you. People learn a lot about themselves when they're with someone who respects himself and sets boundaries. They learn less when they are "yessed" and pampered whether or not they are acting in a respectful and caring way.

I like being kept on my toes and inspired by my friends and my boyfriend. I want someone unafraid to tell it to me straight when he or she thinks I have screwed up.

[grymoire]

ok

that's it

please read my posts.

I'm NOT saying that i hate this guy (he's not my boyfriend, we were just dating!!!) b/c he's TOO nice. i would never say that.

i don't hate him.

i think he's awesome.

i think he's not the right guy for me.

and the main reason i can't date him is that he has no backbone, how do you look up to anyone (guy or girl) who has no backbone.

 

i'm sick of people twisting my words!

 

I get your point... It's because of the frustration that I posted in the way I did. My apologies.

 

To date him or not is your choice. If you feel that he is overly nice and has no backbone yes plz do him and yourself a favor by dumping him quickly. I seriously don't understand why you have been with him so long when it is very clear that you don't respect him and don't feel any attraction. Plz know what you want and if this guy is not what you want then you got to end it. Prolonging this is only going to compound his agony.

[grymoire]

Perfect! You put it very well...

 

This is why I also got very frustrated.

[NewPhillyGuy]

 

i'm sick of people twisting my words!

 

No one is twisting your words. People are expressing their opinions. If you don't like it, then don't post asking for advice. This thread has gotten ALOT of attention, more than any others in this section of the board, I believe. 2,000~ view - it's a very hot topic, obviously.

 

It's inevitable that you are going to get answers that are not what you want to hear. In the end, you will follow your gut anyway, and that's what you should do, regardless of what anyone says.

[gradle]

It's not that i'm here to get answers (which should not be answers or criticism by the way, but instead advice so that i can make a more informed decision) that i dont want to hear. it's that those opinions should be educated. and should be from someone that has actually read what i wrote, rather than simplify it into something that's just not true.

 

regardless of your innaccurate posts there is an update.

 

i just called and chatted and pretty much told him we should just be friends. in all honesty, the timing is just not right. he is way more emotionally involved than i am, and i'm just swamped with work and with school work and will be for at least a year. i dont' want someone who i feel like i'm constantly hurting b/c i can't give enough attention to them. i want someone who lifts up my spirits and does not depress me. i don't have a lot of time in my life to have fun, and i want to enjoy the free time i have. i told him how since the beginning we've both been going back and forth, and he admitted that when he really likes someone he gets a bit scared (why he kept calling me "buddy"). he was upset, but i think we can try and be friends, especially since we were not super serious.

 

so that's that.