is not wearing makeup unprofessional?

[CaptainPlanet]

Blotchy skin is unprofessional ? what about general ungliness ?

 

Male bank tellers ? do they exist ?

 

Sounds a lot like you think looking good is the key, what about doing your 'professional' job. Curious here.

[JadedStar]

Blotchy skin is unprofessional ? what about general ungliness ?

 

Male bank tellers ? do they exist ?

 

Sounds a lot like you think looking good is the key, what about doing your 'professional' job. Curious here.

 

Sorry CaptainPlanet, you get no cigar. i never once said blotchy skin was unprofessional. I was wondering WHY they might have said that, grasping at an answer because I did not have one for why her employers would ask her to wear makeup. And if you read correctly, I never said i agreed with them.

 

Male bank tellers did not exist in the era I was referring to. Very very rare. I did not make the rules but yes, bank tellers did go to "fashion school" at one time. I didn't because I was never a bank teller.

 

As for me, I ALWAYS do my professional job and then some. I won't do any job unless I give it my all. And i also look the part. And it is a known fact that people who feel good about themselves have the propensity to do a better job. So looking good helps you feel good to. Not sure why you would diss that. Not really very appropriate to imply that because I think one should look professional in a professional setting that I am not 100% on point with whatever job I do. I take everything i do very seriously.

 

None of your points made a lot of sense to me.

[watermelonrocksmyteeth]

Just put mascara on and say I HAVE MAKE UP ON!

[CaptainPlanet]

Way to take everything completely personal.

[rocio]

If you have no interest in wearing make-up, then don't wear it. If you were to get fired for it you could probably get away with suing them anyway.

 

This is bs. A woman wearing make-up every time she leaves the house is scary to me. It's like our entire gender is so hideous that the world just couldn't bear facing us without a bit of airbrushing first.

 

I find these comments sad:

 

 

There are very few women in this world who can get away with the all natural look.

 

I generally always wear a little make-up. Even just to go for groceries.

[JadedStar]

If you have no interest in wearing make-up, then don't wear it. If you were to get fired for it you could probably get away with suing them anyway.

 

This is bs. A woman wearing make-up every time she leaves the house is scary to me. It's like our entire gender is so hideous that the world just couldn't bear facing us without a bit of airbrushing first.

 

I find these comments sad

 

Why would their comments be sad?

 

No offense but I have been out and about before and there are a few folks i'd love to toss a tube of mascara to LOL.

[JadedStar]

Way to take everything completely personal.

 

You were quoting my post, and I was clearing up some misconceptions because the way you interpreted it was not what I was saying. I did not want anyone to walk away thinking that I thought that a woman with blotchy skin should be subject to her boss asking her to wear makeup. It is a very strange request for an employer to make.

 

If you were not quoting me, who were you talking to when you said "Sounds a lot like you think looking good is the key, what about doing your 'professional' job. Curious here." Just answered the question you asked since I am even more adamant about doing a good job, but I think people who look the part of the job they do will get taken more seriuosly then the same exact employee who does an equally good job but who dresses inappropriately.

 

This might not be fair but we live in a looks conscious world and first impressions are made everyday. I am all for freedom of expression but that can be done off the clock if a person is employed by a company that has a certain dresscode or standard.

 

This is going a bit off topic at this point because no one is implying that the OP does not look professional.

[Cimmie]

Women have been conditioned to accept all kinds of stuff just for the sake of men's wishes. It's not ok. Why should we sell ourselves out? I'm not at working trying to attract a mate for God's saske.

 

You know I don't have anything against makeup, I wear it when I feel like it. What I have a problem with is the quality of my work being disregarded because I don't always wear makeup to work. Wearing makeup is a bigger issue than the quality of my work? That's not even logical.

 

I totally agree with you, phreklesexy, and I speak as a gal who likes her makeup and usually doesn't leave the house without it.

 

I have a friend in her 40s who never wears it and I do respect her for that - she has a good job and it has never been an issue.

 

I'm currently working as a secretary and I make jokes about how 'expected' it is - it's almost like you are under pressure to give the boss something pleasant to look at ( that's the 1950s stereotype, at least) but of course that's all bs. It amuses me to participate in that, and it's not a compromise for me as I enjoy makeup.

 

I think that sometimes you have to bite the bullet. Like Batya, I would be offended but I would slap on a little blusher and gloss. As compromises go in this life, it's not a massive one to have to make. Perhaps there are more important things to take a principled stand on? We have to choose our battles...

[CaptainPlanet]

Yeah the laws of counter sexism don't really apply to the working class.

 

Sad but true. My sympathies.

[JadedStar]

I think that sometimes you have to bite the bullet. Like Batya, I would be offended but I would slap on a little blusher and gloss. As compromises go in this life, it's not a massive one to have to make. Perhaps there are more important things to take a principled stand on? We have to choose our battles...

 

I conqur Cimmie. That is exactly how I feel too. I definitely choose my battles and if I am going to take a stand firmly I want it to be something I deem pretty important.

[Cimmie]

Yeah the laws of counter sexism don't really apply to the working class.

 

Sad but true. My sympathies.

 

I don't think a high-powered professional woman would go without makeup either. If you want to deem this 'sexism' then it runs all the way to to top, unfortunately! I'm always struck by Condoleezza Rice's 1950s coiffure and general deneanour. No women get away with this, CP.

[itsallgrand]

What did you decide to do?

 

Well, I think it is out of bounds for them to have brought this up with you. If it were so important, it should have been in the dresscode (women wearing appropriate make-up, with clear cut rules about that).

They should have spoken to you sooner at the very least...like when they were interviewing you!

 

Did you wear make-up to the interview? Previously, and then stopped?

 

Honestly, yes, it would bother me. But a lot of it would depend on the place of work, my co-workers and bosses, and in general whether I was happy there to begin with and felt respected.

 

It sounds like you aren't happy there to begin with, that you have problems with the overall values of some of the people you work around.

 

So it's deeper than asking that you wear make-up. Maybe it's time for you to find a more suitable place of employment?

[CaptainPlanet]

I don't think a high-powered professional woman would go without makeup either. If you want to deem this 'sexism' then it runs all the way to to top, unfortunately! I'm always struck by Condoleezza Rice's 1950s coiffure and general deneanour. No women get away with this, CP.

 

Yeah I was making a broad and pretty irrelevant comment to do with my own frustrations regarding the current hypocrisies we find ourselves under.

 

I'm so sick of feminist banter, but I hate the obvious sexism just as much.

 

I;d like to hear more tooting and hooting about the sexual harassed waitresses, and the overtly sexist role of a receptionist (that is ALWAYS female and gorgeous) more so than the lack of supreme court judges.

 

This is just another example of it. Broad statement to justify my frustration.

 

EDIT: needed to rant more

[DaDancingPsych]

I am a woman who wears make-up every day. I think it brings life to the face and does help give that professional look. Would I necessarily require it? Probably not, but I see no harm in trying to make oneself the best.

 

As far as the jeans go, if you honestly feel that you were within the dresscode, then it's not fair. But I would do as asked in both cases.

 

The bigger picture here is that you seem unhappy with this work environment and their requests of your appearance. Maybe it's time to start looking for other options.

[RelaxByWater84]

CarnelianButterfly, I think your mascara statistic is flawed. You see, people that have been wearing mascara for years have short, thin eyelashes NATURALLY. There's a reason they use mascara.

 

She is right. I used to have nice lashes, lashes that reached the top of my eyebrows. Now they are shorter and little thinner. I don't wear it at all anymore.

[alcide]

Do not listen to trash, you're good the way you are natural, they trying to change you, Stand to your morals and what you believe, after all some women must wear makeup to bring out they beauty.

 

But a natural beauty is the best.

[TheSmilingTurnip]

It is commonplace for secretaries and/or receptionists to be exempt from casual fridays.

 

Yeah, not in my company. I am not generally an employee with client contact. Were there to be client contact on a casual day, this would be known beforehand and planned for and I would dress professionally.

 

No I'm not frumpy looking. These people are just plain old s*xists and they want WOMEN to look a certain way. I expressed my frustration at this BS to another member of the department who's worked here a long time and was told point-blank, "Well you know the head of our department is a pig, right?" Trust me, I'm not the problem.

 

I just need to avoid the pig.

[JadedStar]

She is right. I used to have nice lashes, lashes that reached the top of my eyebrows. Now they are shorter and little thinner. I don't wear it at all anymore.

 

You do realize that this can happen to some women as part of the aging process? Some women's hair gets thinner too.

 

I have used mascara for years and years and not any problems which leads me to believe those who have might have a propensity for it to occur as part of the normal aging process.

[JadedStar]

Yeah, not in my company. I am not generally an employee with client contact. Were there to be client contact on a casual day, this would be known beforehand and planned for and I would dress professionally.

 

No I'm not frumpy looking. These people are just plain old s*xists and they want WOMEN to look a certain way. I expressed my frustration at this BS to another member of the department who's worked here a long time and was told point-blank, "Well you know the head of our department is a pig, right?" Trust me, I'm not the problem.

 

I just need to avoid the pig.

 

 

Or find a job you feel more comfortable in.

[RelaxByWater84]

You do realize that this can happen to some women as part of the aging process? Some women's hair gets thinner too.

 

I have used mascara for years and years and not any problems which leads me to believe those who have might have a propensity for it to occur as part of the normal aging process.

 

They started to get shorter and thinner in the first month I used it. I only used for two months and then stopped.

[JadedStar]

There are women who look good without makeup, those who like to enhance with it and some who look good either way. I think that anyone who points a finger at and judges those who do or do not wear it should probably mind their own business more. This is not to anyone in particular, just for the few posts that seem to slam women for their choices regarding make up - for it or against it.

[TheSmilingTurnip]

Well here is what I decided to do. I will stop wearing the jeans, no need to pick a fight about that, they are not the only pair of pants I own. Furthermore, it would be ridiculous for me to get fired over a pair of pants., no matter if others get to wear them and I don't. Time to shop for some khakis or whatever.

 

Makeup -- I'm still not wearing it unless I feel like it. If they want to fire me over it, which is highly unlikely, then I'll deal with it. Fact is, this company has a disciplinary policy and process and they usually follow it, unless you're doing something that's considered gross misconduct. Failure or refusal to wear makeup is gross misconduct only in an alternate universe, like the one that Las Vegas cocktail waitresses live in. Good luck to them on firing someone for something that isn't covered in any policy they have and that only women can be fired for.

 

I dress in my professional, clean, neat clothes and I do my hair so that it looks neat and clean. Voila. Today my supervisor told me I look nice, so obviously my dress is acceptable and she didn't make any remarks about the fact that I am not wearing makeup.

 

Yeah maybe I don't really like this job or this workplace. But I'm a single mom and I don't get to just pick up and leave when I feel like it. Not my employer's fault. I am working on my education and I will leave when I am able to find a better job. There's no sense jumping from one secretarial job that I'm not satisfied with to another that I won't be satisfied with for long either.

 

Ugh this kind of stuff was so much easier to put up with when I was in my 20s lol.

[Batya33]

It may not be in your company's policy but it depends on whether you want to risk how you're regarded at the company, whether you need future references, whether you want to be promoted, get a bonus, etc. It would be hard to prove that they retaliated for your not wearing makeup but think outside the box a little and don't limit to what is technically the policies. Once again, it's not fair, it's inappropriate but what's wrong with wearing a little makeup if that will help the situation?

[TheSmilingTurnip]

It may not be in your company's policy but it depends on whether you want to risk how you're regarded at the company, whether you need future references, whether you want to be promoted, get a bonus, etc. It would be hard to prove that they retaliated for your not wearing makeup but think outside the box a little and don't limit to what is technically the policies. Once again, it's not fair, it's inappropriate but what's wrong with wearing a little makeup if that will help the situation?

 

There's nothing wrong with that if that's what a person wants to do. I wanted to wear makeup today, so that's what I did. Tomorrow I may not want to wear it, and then I won't.

 

Personally speaking, if I needed references at this company, I'd have no trouble getting them whether I wear makeup every day or not. If how I'm regarded at the company depends that heavily on whether I wear makeup or not, then something is more than a little messed up. I guess we've already established that they're a little whack about it.

 

There are no bonuses to be concerned with and I am not concerned right now with being promoted either. So in my situation, this decision works. It was very interesting to hear the perspectives of others on this.

[Batya33]

Good luck. Seems like a battle not worth fighting even if it could effect your image or standing there even the littlest bit. I never thought it would be the make or break factor. But, you seem to have a very strong stand about makeup and you're entitled to take the risks that go with choosing that battle. Good luck.