is not wearing makeup unprofessional?

[JadedStar]

Well I edited that part out because it really had no bearing on this thread and while that may be a mindset i have it didn't apply here. This was about "battles that are worth fighting for, or not".

 

So i edited that out and wrote this instead which was much more applicable to this thread:

 

As long as you know that what are fighting for is worth fighting for in your mind and you are prepared for the consequence - be it good or bad, then I think you should stick by your convictions. All some of us were doing was saying why it wouldn't be one of our battles and if perhaps any of that was helpful you could use it, but if not then at the end of the day it is your life, your job, not ours.

[itsallgrand]

Brrr. Reading all this now, I really wonder why you'd choose a corporate type environment to work in!

 

I mean, I understand your viewpoint. Even feel a great deal the same way.

 

I also know that secretaries aren't bringing in moolay bucks, and you mentioned you don't intend on staying at this job - it's basically about money and providing for your daughter.

 

I go to work every day, no make up, and make around the same if not more than a lot of secretaries.

 

So...I just wonder...there are a lot of environments you put skills like used where you currently are elsewhere...that maybe you do like the fight n' (can't put the word here without getting edited) aspect of it.

 

Is it sexist? I think so.

 

Do you have to be there? God no. It's not like we are talking breaking glass ceilings here.

 

Y'know.?

 

Holy flashback to the 50's. Where if you could type and had good communication skills overall, a woman was relegated to a post behind a damn desk in a skirt and red lipstick.

 

My own rant now, since this was obviously a rant to begin with looking for bait.

[JadedStar]

THis is not about sxism because a man has even more rigid attire rules than women.

 

My husband and I were talking about this the other day. In the heat of the summer a professional woman can get away wtih a silky tank and skirt, and sandals. Yet on that same job a professional man must wear sleeves, an undershirt, long pants, socks. In the case of an attorney he must wear a tie and jacket as well. Not very comfortable and unbearable in the heat but required.

 

You can blame gender roles on this but men have strict dresscodes too. This isn't just for women.

 

I'd rather be a woman as far as dress anyday as I have far more flexibility dressing as a professional woman vs a professional man.

 

And true, if professional attire is a royal pain than a corporate job obviously is not in that person's repertoire.

[angelmaria]

I dont' think they are allowed to TELL you to wear make up are they? That doesn't seem right to me...assuming you do look presentable and your clothes aren't all dirty and wrinkled which i am sure they are not. It is personal preference...was that in the job description? Make up must be worn?

 

As for you not being allowed to wear jeans...if everyoen else is...i would...

[TheSmilingTurnip]

Hey itsallgrand,

 

It wasn't a rant trying to bait people. I wanted to see what people thought. Just wondering - what is your occupation?

 

I ended up here because this is where my experience lies and I don't have a degree. Solution - get degree. No problem, I'm working on it.

 

Also, although we're having this big discussion online, I'm not really experiencing conflict in my day to day work life about it. Being asked to wear makeup just bothered the heck out of me.

[TheSmilingTurnip]

Clothing and makeup are two different things. I'm not talking about sexism in relation to attire.

[TheSmilingTurnip]

I dont' think they are allowed to TELL you to wear make up are they? That doesn't seem right to me...assuming you do look presentable and your clothes aren't all dirty and wrinkled which i am sure they are not. It is personal preference...was that in the job description? Make up must be worn?

 

As for you not being allowed to wear jeans...if everyoen else is...i would...

 

No can't wear the jeans. I can get away with not wearing makeup, I'm not going to get fired for that. Wearing the jeans would be flying in the face of a direct order from the head of the department so I'm not going to tempt fate that hard.

 

I'm just asking if people think it's unprofessional for women to not wear makeup.

[BeStrongBeHappy]

unfortunately there has been some precedent set legally that since the receptionist is the 'face' that the company presents to potential clients, there can be dress codes and standards of grooming/attire that they can set because it is considered necessary for them to conduct their business.

 

i think that legally they can probably get away with saying you need to not wear jeans becuase they don't want to present such a 'casual' face to the customer. and companies have won lawsuits where people in such jobs who radically change their looks (i.e., start sporting visible tattoos, purple hair, face piercings) have been legally unable to sue for discrimination or to keep their job as receptionist or salesperson etc. because the 'look' is not the business norm for the industry.

 

that doesn't mean it is fair from a personal standpoint, but they are probably legally within their rights on the jeans issue.

 

so your best alternative is to try to get them to give you a behind the scenes job if you don't want to dress up more, or just switch companies to another job where dress code for the particular job is not a problem for you.

 

if you were an admin who didn't sit at the front desk, or worked for a dept. that didn't have to greet customers as part of your job, the restriction probably wouldn't apply.

[JadedStar]

Last company i worked for guys were not allowed to wear eyebrow rings, nose rings, lip rings, etc. Some tried to claim discrimination since females could wear earrings.

 

Those complaints didn't hold water either.

 

And yes, receptionists and secretaries are often exempt from casual friday rules. Happens all the time. My first job was as a receptionist and I was not allowed to wear jeans. I dind't mind at all as I wanted to put a good professional image out there as i was the first face clients saw and it was a huge corporate office building.

 

But my motto was i always dressed for the job i wanted, not the one i had. It does help when you are up for promotions. Of course you also have to have the skill, but if a job is up for by two people EQUALLY skilled the one who looks more professional might have a better edge. When i was a receptionist i wanted to be a recruiter - so I dressed like a recruiter and spoke to clients as professionally as I could, like a recruiter. Wasn't long after I became a recruiter. LOL Same company.

 

Just how i look at it but i know everyone has differences of opinion on the topic. If my boss asked me to wear a little make up instead of feeling discriminated against i would think "wow, i must not be looking my best" and i would comply as if he or she thought it, others might think it too and are just not telling me.

[CaptainPlanet]

Shes a secretary because its good experience and a first step up on the ladder.

 

She should thereforeeee wear whatever they tell her to. I have changed my min. Thats like me rocking up at work and refusing to wear a tye because I somehow find it sexist.(I don't)

[CaptainPlanet]

If you think what is happening to you is sexist have a look at a thread by one young girl a while back who was complaining about being felt up by old men. People basically told her its part of her job and to get another one. Minimal sympathy was given too her.

 

If you think your job is bad think about how bad it must be for women who are put in more vunerable and more feminised positions.

 

I don't think you have a lot to complain about on second thought.

[missklew]

I'm sooooo glad I don't work in the US anymore.

 

The companies are nothing but sweat shops run by sociopaths.

[JadedStar]

If you think what is happening to you is sexist have a look at a thread by one young girl a while back who was complaining about being felt up by old men. People basically told her its part of her job and to get another one. Minimal sympathy was given too her.

 

If you think your job is bad think about how bad it must be for women who are put in more vunerable and more feminised positions.

 

I don't think you have a lot to complain about on second thought.

 

I recall that thread but I don't recall anyone telling her to "suck it up it's part of the job".

[princess_summer_blue84]

I recall that thread but I don't recall anyone telling her to "suck it up it's part of the job".

 

Amen sister! Woo Hoo! tell him where he can sit!

[CaptainPlanet]

Strange I recall the thread and that is exactly what was said.

[TheSmilingTurnip]

If you think what is happening to you is sexist have a look at a thread by one young girl a while back who was complaining about being felt up by old men. People basically told her its part of her job and to get another one. Minimal sympathy was given too her.

 

If you think your job is bad think about how bad it must be for women who are put in more vunerable and more feminised positions.

 

I don't think you have a lot to complain about on second thought.

 

That reasoning is ridiculous. Who are you to decide what people should or should not complain about? Certainly there is always something worse going on in the world, but that doesn't mean that what is going on at my company is OK.

 

Should we also tell minorities that they shouldn't complain about being referred to by racial epithets when some of their brethren were being murdered because one is worse than the other?

 

It's ALL unacceptable and needs to end.

[CaptainPlanet]

Ur being told to wear make up. Thats all, its rather minor.

 

Just wear make up.

[TheSmilingTurnip]

Ur being told to wear make up. Thats all, its rather minor.

 

Just wear make up.

 

No. When they tell men to wear it too, then I'll be happy to comply. It's sexist.

[CaptainPlanet]

That reasoning is ridiculous. Who are you to decide what people should or should not complain about? Certainly there is always something worse going on in the world, but that doesn't mean that what is going on at my company is OK.

 

Should we also tell minorities that they shouldn't complain about being referred to by racial epithets when some of their brethren were being murdered because one is worse than the other?

 

It's ALL unacceptable and needs to end.

 

The point that I have decided is where one is sexually assaulted or potrayed in a sexually humiliating manner. Wearing makeup is not derogatory, it is a means of improving ones presentation which is required for your job as you are the face of the company.

 

If you job requires you to look presentable when you come to work thats fine. If you job required you to put up with or encourage sexual comments - not part of your job description, then you have case.

 

You're required to look good, thats all. I'd consider that somewhat of a privilege.

[TheSmilingTurnip]

The point that I have decided is where one is sexually assaulted or potrayed in a sexually humiliating manner. Wearing makeup is not derogatory, it is a means of improving ones presentation which is required for your job as you are the face of the company.

 

If you job requires you to look presentable when you come to work thats fine. If you job required you to put up with or encourage sexual comments - not part of your job description, then you have case.

 

You're required to look good, thats all. I'd consider that somewhat of a privilege.

 

I look fine without it. The quality of my work should be way more important.

 

We're on page 12 of this thread and I feel like this is now a dead horse. This has now been discussed and apparently it's about to be rediscussed. No thanks, I have made all the points I care to make and don't feel like explaining myself any further.

[CaptainPlanet]

No. When they tell men to wear it too, then I'll be happy to comply. It's sexist.

 

ppfffft i'd wear make up if it made me look more appealing to people.

 

whats sexist now ? I can't wear make up cause I'm a man ?

[Batya33]

She means that if men are required to wear makeup too, that would work for her.

 

Men are required to do things women aren't - shave their faces, keep their hair a certain length - although maybe not in your work place.

 

I believe in choosing battles when it comes to sexist situations in the workplace. The OP has decided that wearing makeup is a battle she chooses - to me it doesn't sound like a worthy cause but it's up to her of course.

[CaptainPlanet]

I'd imagine it would depend on how they told her the news. If I were surrounded by skilled professional people, such as engineers or accountants, and I was told I need to just sit there and look pretty - or so to speak. I can't say it would make me feel very good about myself at all.

 

I'd also question my employers sanity, because the probablity of a 6'4" 120 kg male looking pretty are about zero in ten thousand.

[Batya33]

yes, it would depend just like any comments about dress code or appearance have to be presented to the employee in a professional way.

[morgainebrigid]

If you were like a lot of women, you would be spending so much time every morning getting fixed up that it would cut into the time you spend doing functional things. This is one thing that holds many women back. On your lunch breaks, many women run into the bathroom and touch up their makeup and comb their hair. I'll bet you're the type who tends to stay in the office and get extra work done, especially when you're on a deadline. If they can't appreciate this, there may be plenty of employers who can. Unless this job is the only way up the ladder in a career that you're absolutely set on, I'd look around.

Further, I suspect that the suggestion that you wear makeup came from one person, not the entire group. If you do your job well, most of them could probably care less.