Relationship With X

[benga]

Boys!

 

Have been busy, but reading all your posts each day! Just wanted to let ya all know that I am very much in the club, but having just an insane month thank God

 

 

More later! I am off to maldives to some diving and hang with an old girl friend and I will fill you all up in a few weeks in case I don't show up for a while, its not that I haven't forgotten what happened with me, but I need to move as well and have a life.

 

We are at the airport, getting ready to fly. She is at the bar so I have space.

 

Wish ya all strength, will, happiness and a lifetime of happiness!!

 

Brotherhood! This club saved me! Thanks john, surf, scourn and the group. I will be back for sure!! Count on it!

 

Cheers

Benga - a lil drunk at the airport

[John Bendix]

Dear Club Members,

 

I just read something on another thread that seemed to hit home.

 

When it comes to the dealings of the divorce or seperartion, in regards to the financial issues, the more the walkaways can rile their anger and hostility towards those they are leaving behind, the easier it is for them to take care of their selffish business interests. So, going right along with their emotional instability, it behooves them to create a mind set of anger and hatred towards those they seek to leave. Even to go as far as conjuring up imaginary negative aspects of our personalities and lifestyles. This seems to give their ego justification for some of their outbursts, threats, belittling comments, and mean natured demeanor.

 

In their desperation to escape the emotional distress that they are experiencing, they use another dysfunctional emotion, such as anger, to get them to their ultimate goal. Namely, getting away from what they perceive as the ultimate cause of their unhappiness, their relationship with their partner.

[scornandtorn]

This is so true John! Thats where I am at at this point. In two weeks it will be three years since she left this house and I will never get any peace until I am either dead or the end of the world happens. As you all know I am still being drug back to court by her for anything she can get her hands on.

All of it is so over inflated and its only purpose is to fuel her anger.

 

When I was going to the councilor he would explain to me how she will use all resources necessary to justify her wrong doing. No one will be able to change her mindset at this point. For along time I didn't want to create any negative thoughts toward me, but over time I could really care less what she thinks. It is irrational, distorted, and not logical in any sense.

 

My message to her affair partner is this - "You win the grand prize! Please make sure you give this women everything you can. Sacrifice everything in your life for her. Sell her your soul and invest your whole future with her. When she brings up my name in disgust and anger, hold her and tell her it's all OK now. But when she shatters your world for the next opportunity, remember these words from me - "REVENGE IS SWEET!"

[John Bendix]

Scorn,

 

The only thing I have to add to ypur post is, Amen.

[just M.E.]

John,

I read your thoughts on anger, to me, my ex has had to create a facade of me as the bad guy because what he is doing to me is reprehensible. By reinventing me in his mind, he can justify totally dishonorable behavior.

 

My sanity remains in the fact that someday this will be over. I can only hope and trust that the court will see his behavior as my legal advisor's and even his lawyer see it, to be kind his behavior is irrational, if I was less kind .....

 

I feel for your sons, no child should ever have to be the pawn of a parents games, shame on her, shame, shame, shame. I have worse words, being a mother, I cannot comprehend anything said or done that hurts a child, she has certainly forgotten that role (or never understood it), hang tough, those boys need you now so much to balance.

[John Bendix]

M.E.,

 

Thank you for your kind thoughts.

 

Your posts prove that the "Walkaway Spouse Syndrome" does happen to men. Although statiscally, it happens much more to women than men. I see it as not being so much a gender issue as it is a emotional distress issue. Why, I can only speculate. Hormones do play a part in some of this dynamic but some men experience extreme hormonal changes in their mid-life but not as often as women. But again, hormone changes are not the only or even the predominant factor.

 

As for me, I have experienced guilt for being the reason that their mother left. It is the reason that she, time and time, told them and me. Fortunately, they were old enough to realize that it was her that was "unhappy" and irrational and that I tried everything to try and get her to stay and help raise them. When the court awarded the kids to me at the temporary hearing, she never fought it. I believe she sensed it was a burden that her diminished emotional state could not handle. Then, of course, this totally ravaged her ego (self-image was low to begin with with nager and hostility a cover-up) and created more pain for her in the way of guilt and self denunciation. What a cycle.

 

She still blames me for her estranged relationship with her kids. I brainwashed them against her. I wanted her to stay and/or come back. Why would I do that? It is what she HAS to believe forthe sake of her dysfunctional ego. They are 21, 19, and 15, and free to make up their own minds. When they occasionally give in and see her, I do not even know about it. The youngest has been in therapy for two years and even the therapist has told him and me that it is probably best for him to not spend time with his mother becasue she is so unstable. They talk to her grudingly and refuse to discuss their mother with me except to say that she does not make sense. And that she is syrupy nice to them when she sees them to the point that they just think she is phoney.

 

This does not make me feel any better. I have brought a dysfunctional family into the world and cannot do anything about it. I feel bad that I cannot have a civil relationship with her if this hurts my kids in any way. All of the conversations turn irrational and blame, complain, and extremely untrue comments, are instantly thrown my way. I have not argued with her for two years. I simply get off the phone and avoid talking with her when at social events, if she attends. I'm sorry, I cannot make the ingenuine "nice nice" with her. My kids know that honesty and truth are factors that I have always sought and I know that they see that. I do not want to be involved in the "game" with the kids as pawns. I simply do not want her in "my" life. What they do is up to them and her.

 

JN

[scornandtorn]

As you all know, I have had a developing relationship with my first ex wife and earlier in the month I had a reality check. I have spoken to her several times since and she has never brought up her new relationship.

 

She has been calling me and emailing me about an invitation to another get together at her place (which is tonight). I responded yesterday by email and told her to have a nice time and tell everyone hello. She text me last night and wanted to know if I was coming. I responded by asking her if he (new guy) was going to be there. She replied "yes, but I still want you to come!" My reply, "thanks for the invite but it would just be weird for me. She didn't respond again, so I think it may have pi$$ed her off.

 

I want to continue our friendship but there is some limits on what I can handle. Going to a party, which will be all couples, alone and trying to blend in while watching her and new boyfriend play host is not really my idea of a good time.

[John Bendix]

I just wrote a post dealing with the frustration of the No Contact mode when you really would like to express yourself to your X.

 

Whether or not your partner responds, which is unlikely, do you say to them what is own your mind? No matter how heartfelt or compassionate your communication is, they seem not to even acknowledge it. It is emotional too much for them to accept or take in. The wall prevents them from absorbing your message. They sense that they are too emotionally vulnerably to even recognize your expressions.

 

If you do wish to communicate your feeling and thoughts, it is best not to anticipate a response or to expect there to be an outcome. This goes along with my life view anyway.

[just M.E.]

John wrote:

"This does not make me feel any better. I have brought a dysfunctional family into the world and cannot do anything about it. I feel bad that I cannot have a civil relationship with her if this hurts my kids in any way. All of the conversations turn irrational and blame, complain, and extremely untrue comments, are instantly thrown my way. I have not argued with her for two years. I simply get off the phone and avoid talking with her when at social events, if she attends. I'm sorry, I cannot make the ingenuine "nice nice" with her. My kids know that honesty and truth are factors that I have always sought and I know that they see that. I do not want to be involved in the "game" with the kids as pawns. I simply do not want her in "my" life. What they do is up to them and her."

 

When I read this, I can truly understand how you feel, but please remember, you are powerless over her actions. You can only control how you help your sons accept what has happened. You can protect them only to a limit, unfortunately, there is always the right of the other parent to have time with their children, only your sons can make the choice to remove themselves from her and you can support them in whatever they choose.

 

I divorced my daughter's father when she was only 1 and through the years he was a very erratic father. It has damaged her and I wish as a mother, I had the right to deny him access to his daughter. Unfortunately, there is too much rights given a bad parent and not enough understanding for the child. One thing that helped her as she was torn by his unkindness, was that I told her a new way to think about him. Children naturally take the hurt personally. I told my daughter that her father was like a broken machine, there was a part within him that was simply broken and could not be fixed. For him this was the part that allowed him to give love to others. By seeing this as something broken within him, she was less likely to feel she caused his disdain, it removed some of the personal feeling of this. It never took all the hurt away and the feeling of abandonment.

 

All I could do is give her unconditional love, talk to her about the wrong of not caring for others and give her a base to go forth in life from. What you will find most likely, is that you and your sons will be closer because you share this hurt and lean on each other to heal and move forward. Yes, it is pretty crappy that they have to experience this, but in the end they may become more aware and wiser than you would expect a young man to be. You have a great insight and by removing yourself from the garbage, you have shown to them to keep the high ground. They learn so much from what you do, they will see this and it becomes part of who they are.

[scornandtorn]

Just got home from having a couple of drinks. I needed it after the invitation I had for tonight blew up. I just can't understand the logic in "I want to be with you if you don't mind my date."

 

People just don't make sense to me anymore. I'm not a bad person and I know I have a lot to offer if someone could just be real.What I mean is, just be real and don't play games with me.

 

I went thru a bitter divorce and I just want to see things as they used to be when people are who they are. Who they claimed to be, no games , no lies, just a real person!

[John Bendix]

M.E.,

 

Thank you again for your kind words.

 

I hope that you are right.

[scornandtorn]

John, I am a firm believer of no contact. I went down that road early after she walked away from the marriage, only to be met with disappointment. By the time I realized it was all real and she was done, I had already tried all I could. No contact was my final recourse.

 

I am in the racing business and the way I looked at it was that I was several laps down when I finally caught on, so I parked it. Meaning there was nothing left to gain.

[John Bendix]

Scorn,

 

You are asking people to be what you want them to be. Even if this desire for them is to just be rational and truthful. You are creating a desire for the world of people to be other than they are. This is an expectation that will lead to suffering through disappointment.

 

I have written about how dysfunctional each of our ego's can be and some to levels that reach clinical proportions. I think that by accepting their irrational egoic behavior for what is, I can reduce my own egoic reactions to them. I look to be real myself, by not reacting to their ways, and let the rest of the world be as it is. In this acceptance, compassion is created and my unpleasant emotional reactions will begin to cease.

[scornandtorn]

As I am always searching for an explanation of how my marriage ended and why my ex wife continues to show no guilt or remorse whatsoever, I ran accross an article written by Offra Gerstein, Ph.D.

 

Although it is about a man that leaves a woman, I simply replaced the gender related words (him, her, wife, husband, etc.) to apply to my own personal experience as I read it. In a summary, it addresses the five psychological stages a walkaway spouse (with feelings for a third party) creates to justify their decision.

 

This explains my situation to a "T". It also gives me some understanding to the same questions I ask myself everyday. Why do I get punished for her betrayal? Why was it all my fault? Why was her view of our marriage so different than mine? When will she find peace with herself and her choices and leave me alone?

 

link removed

[John Bendix]

Scorn,

 

That was an excellant description. In your case, it seems to be fit perfectly.

 

As for the walkaway spouse syndrome, I read it again and cut out the actual third party scenario. It still makes incredible sense. I then replaced the third party involvement with a state of "Being Free". Equating the desire to have that other person with the sense of Freedom. Again it seems to fit.

 

The part that I find refreshing is that the article eludes to the fact that there is something emotional wrong with the partner who walks away from his/her spouse and/or family. In its description of the stages that the person goes through, they are all dysfunctionally emotional in nature.

 

The actions and the emotional reasoning (though erroneous) of the walkaway seemed to be speaking about my X (and probably many of those that we have encountered).

 

Somehow you should try to repost the best parts of that article.

 

Thanks,

 

John

[faddy]

Hi All

 

Been following this thread from the beginning and can`t quite believe how similiar my story is to others on here. Here goes with a bit of background.

 

Married to my ex wife for the past 3 years but together for 12 years in total.We have 3 children together aged 15(from ex wifes previous relationship), 10 and 4. I have raised the oldest one as my own and he sees me as his father.

 

Ex wife went on a field trip back in May 2007 for 6 weeks and informed me, by phone 2 weeks into the trip, that our marriage was over as she was no longer happy.

 

I was completely devastated as i did not see it coming and have struggled ever since. I also thought that when she returned from the trip we would be able to sit down and discuss this maturely and in person. While we did discuss this on her return, it was clearly "over" from her side.

 

I done the whole begging, needy bit to no avail and decided i would move out of the family home, with kids in tow, to regain some sanity. I finally found a place in July, after going on the yearly family summer holiday without ex wife, and promptly moved out on our return.

 

After lengthy discussions with the ex wife at that time i convinced her to take an equal share of the care of the children, and we agreed on this. I found this discussion really difficult as she had, up until that point, been an attentive and dedicated mother.

 

When i asked the ex if she had met someone else she flatly denied this in a very angry way and i knew then that this was the reason for her indifference towards the kids and myself. It turns out she had started an emotional affair with one of her field trip coleagues a few months before the trip began. She denies to this day that anything "happened" with this person during the trip but they are now in a established relationship.

 

Despite all this turmoil i do still have feelings for this woman i married and we have a lot of contact, mainly regarding our children, but not only. Even though she ended our marriage and chose this new life path i dont think that i have ever seen her so unhappy. She laments the fact of what she has given up and what little she has gained. Her mum speaks regularly to me(her doing) and tells me not to give up on her daughter yet as she believes she is depressed.

 

I would love to have the patience and forgiveness to wait it out but i cant while she is in alliance with somebody else.

 

I have recently met up with an old flame while she was visiting some friends over here, she lives overseas, and we spent some intense periods of time together while she was here. I really enjoyed making her acquatance? once again and she made it clear that she would like us to be more than "friends". Very flattering but a bit frightening also.

 

However, i have arranged to fly out and see her early February and the ex wife is distraught that i will do this. Please Enlighten.

 

Well there is much more to this episode than i have written but bear with me and i will try and include important, relevant parts as i go. Does this now mean i am a member of the exclusive WAW club? Probably unfortunately so.

Take care to all

 

Faddy

[scornandtorn]

Welcome to the club faddy. As I am sure others feel the same, it is not a good place to be. But the fact remains we are forced to deal with it. This thread has been a life saver for me and is a good place to vent your frustrations over the challenges you are facing and trying to understand the logic of the walkaway spouse.

 

My advise is don't take her actions personally. Don't get down on yourself for the marriage failing. Most importantly DO NOT put any merit into her reasoning.

 

On a side note, be careful of a rebound relationship. The grieving process is unavoidable and you can do it now or you can do it later. Choose the now and don't let it affect your future relationships.

[John Bendix]

Faddy,

 

Sorry that you are here. Unfortunately, The "Club" is not exclusive for there are a ton of us out there just waiting to be heard. The only requirement is that you have been walked away from for seemingly no apparant reason.

 

Listen to the advice from Scorn. It seems short but it contains a lot of wisdom.

 

Key to me is acceptance of what is even if that acceptance includes the irrational. You mother-in-law thinks her daughter is depressed. She may indeed be right. But in her present mind-set, your wife will never agree to accept it or even to see it.

 

In my research, the walkaway is suffering some emotional distress usually caused by the pain that she/he has been carrying around for years. It has come to the surface as an emotional reaction such as anger, hostility, fear, withdrawal, and so on. The trigger for this outburst of irrational behavior and demeanor can be (and not exclusively) MLC, perimenopause, hormonal imbalances (in men also), depression (of all kinds), etc.

 

Take care and keep in touch-

[scornandtorn]

Below is a shortened version of the article I mentioned in a previous post. I did not write this article, however changed the gender related words to align with my own personal experience. For those spouses that have been left by the walkaway to deal with the ashes of your former life together, this is a good read. My ex wife is still stuck in the number 3 phase of this progression and I pray everyday she can move past it.

 

When a Woman Leaves a Man

The emotional intensity is even greater in a Compounded Divorce pattern that entails the involvement of a third party. Here the left partner does not only feel abandoned; he or she feels replaced. I will use an example of a woman who leaves her husband while the other man serves as a catalyst for the divorce.

 

1. DEMONIZING THE MATE: The woman is a decent person who is aware that her conduct is frowned upon both morally and socially. She begins to feel great guilt- yet, she continues her relationship with the other man. In order to reconcile the conflict between her view of herself as a moral being and her unacceptable conduct, she resorts to demonizing her husband as a justification for her behavior.

 

2. REWRITING HISTORY: Not only is the partner found to be irrevocably faulted, he has been so for the whole duration of the marriage. The wife re-creates a view of historical suffering and pain she has endured. She may say, "I have been unhappy in this marriage for 20 years" or, "he has made every day of our married life a miserable day." It is clear that it is a re-created story because of the exaggerated nature of the comment, its intensity and the lack of balance. The wife assumes no personal responsibility for her role in the so-called "long-term suffering." She seeks approval and support of others for having been a victim, which in her mind fully justifies her abandoning the family.

 

3. PUNISHING THE MATE: The woman retells her newly developed view of her suffering often enough to believe that her husband deserves to be punished. He is the "offender" and her "persecutor" and thus needs to be dealt with harshly. The punishment is dished out through financial withholding, or worse, through fighting over the children.

 

4. SEEKING APPROVAL: Despite all her vengeance, the woman still wants the affirmation and approval of family, friends and curiously enough even her husband. She wants him to accept that he was primarily responsible for the break-up of the family and realize that she had no other choice but to act as she did. The deep-seated guilt the woman experiences about having left her family for another man continues to plague her. For many, the strain within the original family leaves permanent emotional scars.

 

5. RESTORING BALANCE: The woman expects the first husband to accept her new life and even be happy for her. She wants her husband to take the full blame for her need to escape the intolerable marriage. thereforeeee, he should also accept the "new reality" and make peace with her new boyfriend or husband. Since the first husband does not share any of her reconstructed views of their history, he is often unwilling to embrace her new life. With time, however, some couples learn to act civilly toward each other for the sake of their children. Few former mates accept the expanded family and may even become friendly again.

 

People, who allow outside relationships to divert their attention from the family, must look inside themselves for the reasons for their behavior. For some, it is an attempt to improve a temporary feeling of low self-esteem.

There are many other reasons for being vulnerable to attention outside the home, and it is very important to understand the nature of this pull. Once understood, healthy measures could be taken to rectify the problem. Mentioning to the spouse some vague or even specific dissatisfaction is NOT a sufficient impetus for change. Change requires exploration, re-decisions and action.

 

When the tempted partner withholds the information in order to spare himself or herself and the mate's agony, he or she may only embark upon a much more devastating course.

[John Bendix]

Scorn,

 

Thanks for sharing this post with all us.

 

The article shows great insight into the emotional and mental workings of the walkaway spouse with a third party involved.

 

If we eliminate the third party dynamic, the emotional and mental state of the walkaway (one without someone on the side) still seems to play out the same fashion.

 

 

Very interesting.

[scornandtorn]

Off topic but, I am kind of excited that I have had a couple of job interviews this week. Hopefully I can nail down a new job and get back to living. Being unemployed the last four months has definitly been a major cause of depression for me.

 

No job and nothing to do but dwell on the set backs I have had, has just been miserable.

 

One step at a time.

[John Bendix]

Scorn,

 

 

Not setbacks but opportunities taken one at a time.

 

Happy hunting this week.

[just M.E.]

scornandtorn,

 

There is another book you may be interested in, especially in light of the concept of setbacks, as John said, there is another way to see this, a 180 degree view

 

The book is Necessary Losses

[stressedanddepressed]

Hello to all posters...I have read practically all of your posts in this thread and felt the need to post one myself. It is unbelievable that I found this topic and even more so that what I have read from you, I seem to be looking at my own PERSONAL journal. Thank you for all of them.

 

A brief synopsis of my situation:

 

(I just turned 40 in September, my wife will be 39 this May)

 

met my wife soon after my graduation, dated over that summer ('85), she got pregnant with our first of 3 children that November, we married in '87, bought our first home in '89, added our second and third children in '89 & '90, over the years I worked mostly nightshift, so she could work days to help us to make ends meet (it was a very stressful period of time, but we kept moving on)

 

I started a good paying job in late '92, although I still had to work nights until 2001 (I am still at the same job-15 years plus now)

 

bought our second home in '96 and moved from the city to the 'burbs...in late '98, she began talking to and seeing a male coworker. I was distraught and felt betrayed...one night she even held me in bed, stroking my hair and telling me we would work thru it, i closed my eyes but did not go to sleep...she proceeded to leave the bed, go downstairs on the basement phone and call to talk to him...I caught her and she was speechless...after several incidents, which will take entirely too long to talk about here, and even applying for a divorce, we reconciled, i thought, forever

 

fast forward to October, 2007...after a very stressful summer, and weeks of counseling in which i felt things were improving, she drops a bomb on me telling me that she thinks we need to separate for awhile, but only temporarily...she moved in with her mother for a cpl. weeks...then suddenly, with absolutely no warning, she tells everyone, myself included, that she has BOUGHT (not rented) a trailer near where her mother lives...well, that told me it was over for us...i stopped going to counseling and was very angry and hurt at the entire process

 

since then, I have struggled with getting together with her on several occasions, as it is absolutely making it harder for me to let go...she still wanted to go out on "dates" with me (dinner, movies, etc) and, get this one guys, she still wants to get together for sex....aaaaghhh...I don't get it! She doesn't want to live with me anymore, but has no problem doing these other things with me...I don't believe there is another man this time, because it wouldn't make sense that she still wants to hookup for sex, etc. with me

 

I thought I have been a decent husband (no smoking, drug, alcohol, gambling, infidelity, out-of-work issues)...I took alot of responsibility on in our marriage (paying the bills, home repairs/improvements, laundry, decision making-she never really showed any interest in doing so)...I think she has some problems/midlife/hormonal issues that she must be dealing with, although I am not a doctor

 

we have filled out paperwork for a disallusion, met with a lawyer, and will be filing for it soon, like within the next 2 weeks....our oldest child is now a college grad and working full time, but staying with me at the house until her own marriage late in '09....the middle one has just started college and is living off campus there, and the youngest is a high school senior seriously contemplating joining the marines (more stress added to the situation)

 

I have no parents (both deceased), most of my friends and family are married and cannot really understand what I am going through on a daily basis (crying at work and in bed at night, the feeling of helplessness and loss, etc.) She is all I have ever known, as I never really dated much in school. And she was my one and only, sexually speaking.

 

I apologize for this 'brief' synopsis going way too long, but would appreciate any feedback, advice, etc....John, I just ordered your book today and am eagerly awaiting its arrival

[scornandtorn]

Welcome to the club, Stressed. Sounds like you are in the initial phase of trying to piece together what the heck happened. It is very hard to apply logic to an illogical situation.

 

If I had a chance to relive it, I would have not tried the knee jerk reaction of trying to repair the relationship. Instead, as hard as it was, I would have just let her hide behind her wall.

 

I think at this point I wouldn't try and reason with her on an emotional level if I where you. You will find it is just a giant black hole that will just suck the life out of you. Secondly, I wouldn't engage in intimacy with her either. Be polite about it, but don't get roped into the pattern of being there for her on the level she chooses.

 

You have to protect yourself because she is probably miles ahead in the emotionally disconnected department at this point.

 

If your goal is reconciliation don't try and reason with her. Just be nice if she contacts you and let her deal with her emotions on her own. If things don't change you will know when you have had enough. That will be when you take control of your own emotions and start the healing process.