Relationship With X

[waffle]

I would like to start a topic on how we deal with the X after the seperation and divorce.

 

Interesting to note that this original post/thread was started six years ago today.

 

How we deal with the X after divorce . . . in my case we don't talk. But we didn't talk while married, either, so nothing has changed there. It's difficult to co-parent that way, but again, we were never able to successfully co-parent while married so why would that change now?

 

My life continues to get better. xH sabotaged several things (broken appliances, water pipes, water heater and furnace tampering, etc.) before he moved out in an attempt to retaliate, but I'm managing very well and have almost everything fixed now. I've developed considerable plumbing skills in the almost-four months since I've been divorced, so if anyone needs any help . . . and I've caught up on the house payments (he deliberately left me three months behind even though he was court-ordered to make the payments as long as he refused to move out).

 

I expect I'll always hate him on some level, but it's more of a passive hate than an active hate. It's because of how he insisted on trying to punish the kids for me filing for divorce (because he knew they were the only thing I really wanted, and if he hurt them he knew it would hurt me) and especially after I was awarded sole custody. It ranged from him telling our daughter, the one time in her whole life she asked him for a ride to gymnastics approximately two miles from our house, "your mom knows I don't do that because it's not my job, so you'll have to wait til she gets home" (that pissed the kid off royally, especially since he was just sitting on his @$$ in front of the TV!) to him gleefully telling them, in front of me, how he was going to make sure they and their mom ended up homeless. We're all much happier that he's gone now. They do see him a few days a month. I make sure and stay on top of the situation, and I'm pleased to say that--while he's still not in the running for Father of the Year--his behavior towards them does seem to have improved somewhat.

[Juliette ne pas]

Wow your x and my soon to be one have a lot in common. The no talking, the sabotage, the bills. The big diff is you were proactive I wasn't, honestly I would still be in that if he didn't lose it in front of the kids. That was it for me, I cried for help and got something...not sure what, but the end result is he is divorcing me and I'm fighting for the kids.

Yes I need to learn to be a plumber too.

[benga]

Juliette - hang in there. the first few months upto the year can be terrible. You aren't alone, we have all been through the confusion, pain, sadness and the rejection and an understand exactly how you are feeling. There is plenty of very useful advise on this thread, and has years (and years) of collective wisdom from many of us who have been exactly where you are. Things will get better, and you will have clarity... How long really depends on how you process all of this within yourself. You best bet to gearing up for this rollercoaster will be to take good care of yourself. Get fit, eat right, meditate, go to the gym, spend time with close friends and family.. surround yourself with things that are positive... The pain and hurt will come and go.. over time, the lows will get easier and the highs will last longer...

 

Your children need you right now.. Be there for them!! Keep posting.. we are here for you...

 

Lost - Buddy, I read The 5 Love languages 7 years ago around the time we had separated, and tried to get her to read it as well.. She didnt at that point of time, but did so recently... I agree, it is really insightful and very useful in understanding your partner/spouse. But typically (90% of the times) people go hunting for these sort of books when things are a little rocky.. why did your GF buy it for you now? I hope everything is all right? A few adjustment issue?

What is your primary language? I used think it was physical closeness, but i was wrong, it was my second language. realised it was quality time that was my primary language... R's primary language is words of affirmation... I realised i had starved her of it for a few years before we separated, and why she became so self obsessed and self involved after we separated.... Super book. I should read it again....

[Jeffbobo]

Wow your x and my soon to be one have a lot in common. The no talking, the sabotage, the bills. The big diff is you were proactive I wasn't, honestly I would still be in that if he didn't lose it in front of the kids. That was it for me, I cried for help and got something...not sure what, but the end result is he is divorcing me and I'm fighting for the kids.

Yes I need to learn to be a plumber too.

 

Hey Juliette, welcome to one of the best threads on this forum! At least it was for me and many others that were in your situation. I know you have every emotion running free right now and are probably in a fog but at this point. You need to keep your head. Do not make any rash decisions or agree to anything with him at this point. I know its difficult but think of your future with your kids and without him. Lawyers and mediators will stand as a neutral party to help you navigate through this so I suggest you seek council if you haven't already.

 

Things that are important and what you should be thinking about.

1. Child support - most states have an online child support calculator where you can punch in the numbers to get an idea of how much and who pays what to whom.

2. Assets - Be sure to get an actual assessment done on any or all properties so you have something to back up the numbers when it comes to division of property. Assume equal division of assets. I've heard some get more of a percentage in leu of spousal maintenance.

3. Potential spousal maintenance - If you have been out of the workforce for a while and need some time to be employable and get on your feet, then you can lobby for temporary spousal maintenance.

4. Child custody - Make sure this is nailed down and not left open for potential abuse and/or power struggle. Anything you can do to setup a clear, set schedule so that there is no contention or confusion as to where the kids will be staying at any particular time.

 

As far as your emotional well being is concerned, please read through this entire thread to gain understanding and insite as to the process you go through and will be going through. All of us are here because we've been there, needed support, gone through it and eventually, over time and with the help of ENA have healed.

[Juliette ne pas]

Thank you all.

I finally have legal counsel, I'm trying to gain insight on the child support and spousal support. It is a roller coaster, I was married almost 25 yrs. and in that time was not allowed to work, so this will interesting. I am going to the employment commission today. Thank you for the support I will post here in my highs and lows so I can seem strong to my kids. They need me to be level headed and focused and that is my goal.

[Jeffbobo]

Thank you all.

I finally have legal counsel, I'm trying to gain insight on the child support and spousal support. It is a roller coaster, I was married almost 25 yrs. and in that time was not allowed to work, so this will interesting. I am going to the employment commission today. Thank you for the support I will post here in my highs and lows so I can seem strong to my kids. They need me to be level headed and focused and that is my goal.

 

Hey Juliette,

 

Take your time and make sure you fully understand the long term ramifications of what your legal council is telling you. Like I said, at this point it can be difficult to look past all this when you are in this fog.

 

My ex is in a similar situation as you. I was with her for 23 years, she worked outside the home for the first 3 years, stayed home with the kids the rest but we did work at home based businesses over the years together while I worked in my career as well. I was in a similar situation as you as I didn't necessarily want to get a divorce and it has taken time to process the hurt and failure of my marriage. For me though, I did recognize that it would be hard to be at this point in life without any real marketable skills for the workforce other than minimum wage jobs. Lobbying for and getting temporary spousal maintenance for a period of time to allow you to get on your feet and into the workforce is totally acceptable and fair. Make sure you come to the table with a plan though with timetables. A 2-year associates degree, becoming gainfully employed, spousal maintenance dropping and then straight child support until the kids are 18 would be reasonable. Make the plan as clear as possible and stick to it to avoid any contention. Try not to be bitter (meaning having the attitude that he's going to pay for this) through this process as it only prolongs the inevitable and your recovery. Honor the memory of when things in your marriage were good, not where it ended up. This can be difficult though if you are in a place of bitterness, resentment and hurt. Your ultimate goal is to move on and break your 'oneness' with him that has been a part of your life in various forms for a long time. Also, try not to play the blame game. And I am going to speak strictly from my own personal experience here... In the 23 years that I was together and married with my ex, she had every opportunity to do anything she wanted for herself. And after many attempts and business failures (together) as well as a couple failed starts at school, she only has herself to blame, not me for where she is at in life. She always had free will and the choice to do and try whatever she wanted. Try to look at this as a chance at a new beginning to do and try things you have always wanted to do but felt held back for whatever reason. You are given the opportunity to start again and attempt to do it right given the wisdom and lessons you have and will learn through this. Takes time to heal after a LTR but with the right tools and knowledge (ENA for instance) that time doesn't have to take forever.

 

Hang in there. Hope to hear from you soon.

[lostandhurt]

Benga,

 

I should have known you had read that book. My gf gave it to me so I could understand her better and it worked. She also re-read it and understands me better as well.

My primary love language is Quality Time to receive and my primary love language to give is Acts of Service. My gf's is Words of Affirmation so you can see we are in the same boat more or less on this one

 

Yes it is true many don't start bailing water out of the boat or even realize it is taking on water until it is to late. I have done more reading in the last 5 years than the 20 years before! It is so stupid to try and firgure things out on your own when there are so many great resources out there if you just look. Men are faamous for finding their own way and wasting time when they should just ask for directions....

 

I am glad you BOTH read the book. It is nice to share things like this so you both feel understood.

 

Things are going well but there have been some bumps in the road. The new and improved Lost has a great many more tools in his toolbox to work out issues that come up though.

 

Lost

[lostandhurt]

Hi Juliette,

 

I read most of your old threads. It would seem that your husband is in the military is that correct? He has also been abusive and controlling most of your 23 years together.

 

What he is trying to do now is what he has been doing for the last 23 years and he thinks you will just lay down and take it. Many times if one spouse does not have money for a lawyer the other spouse pays for their legal bills so look into that.

 

You placed a restraining order on him in the past so that should help in the custody arrangement. There is really no way I can see how he can take your children from you so don't believe his threats.

 

Once you start to see and hear real facts about how things will go you will feel better. Fear of the unknown is one of the biggest things you will go through during this time. Do your best to take the high road always but do not fear fighting for what is right. Liek Jeff said, do not try and punish him for past deeds, just make sure the children and yourself are taken care of.

 

Child support, alimony, part of his retirement, half the value of the house and it's contents and any other community property are all on the table. Make sure you research custody issues after the settlement so you can see pitfalls before it is all signed by a judge. Where will the pick up drop off take place? what time? who pays for school supplies or field trips. What about a college fund? Health insurance for you and the kids. Life insurance with you as the benificary intil all child support is paid. Car isnurance and cars for the kids when they need it.

 

As you can see there are many things to ask and learn about and I encourage you to learn from other that have been where you are at right now to make sure your children are taken care of.

 

Don't be surprised that when he is faced with the cost of divorce that he may want to work it out. From what I have read that would be a very bad idea for you.

 

Keep posting and we can help you deal with your soon to be ex and all the crap he will throw at you as time goes by.

 

Lost

[waffle]

...its like the battle lines are drawn.

 

Yes, and you will do well to figure out your goals in this and share them with your lawyer. It is his/her job to be your advocate . . . if I had it to do differently, though, I would probably go with a different lawyer than what I had. Partially my fault: I told her (my lawyer was female) that my goals were: 1) full custody of minor children, 2) get the house if possible, but not totally necessary, and 3) I didn't want to spend a lot of money being that we didn't have all THAT many assets. Turns out she interpreted my third goal as "Waffle will give in to her soon-to-be-ex's demands in the interest of keeping legal fees low." I remember the first (and only) meeting between the four of us--me and ex and our lawyers--and Ex hurling out demands and my lawyer sitting there nodding her head! I was livid. I remember thinking "is she on my side, or his?" I had told her what an abusive b@st@rd he was and warned her how he could be unbelievably charming in public if there was something to be gained for him (typical of abusers), but she still got taken in by him anyway (as everyone does).

 

For example, the custody agreement was already determined--it was rendered six weeks after I filed--and by the time of our first meeting we were beyond 90 days of THAT. So at this meeting, 90+ days after the custody decision and Ex had already had all this time to dispute it (we were both given 30 days to review it and it seemed agreeable to both of us), the lawyers calculated what the child support was likely to be, Ex was not happy with the amount so he says casually that he noticed he only had one visitation during the week (in addition to his every other weekend) that was only from 5 - 8 or something*, and to lower his child support he was interested in amending the custody agreement into having an overnight instead of just 5 - 8. And my lawyer sits there and tells me, in front of them, that sounds good why don't we do that? I said hell no. This wasn't about the kids for him, it was about money and trying to lower his child support. She argued that if it went before a judge, the judge was likely to order it since the visitation in the custody order appeared to be less than typical. I said good, then let the judge order it because the custody agreement had already been decided months ago and he had ample time to look it over and now I'm expected to just roll over and give in so I could save him some money in child support? Yeah, um, no. Her argument was that going before the judge was expensive (true) so if I just let Ex have and do whatever he wants, I'd save myself some money. DO NOT FALL INTO THIS TRAP.

 

That was just one example. There were several others. I stuck to my guns and not only did we NOT end up going before the judge, I ended up getting the house (which he didn't want me to have . . . he said in the meeting in front of the lawyers that he didn't actually want it but he didn't want me to have it either so he was interested in it going to foreclosure, and the lawyers sat there nodding their heads and acting like this was a good option) and I got two of our three vehicles, full custody and 4-figures monthly in child support totaling half of his net paycheck. Again, figure out your goals and stick to it. You have one opportunity to do this right. The rest of your life depends on it.

 

Lastly, I have to say, I have never heard of a man who actually wanted a divorce and intented to fight for the kids and the house, etc. that didn't have someone else already. I would be really surprised if there's not a girlfriend on the side, and maybe has been for some time. Keep your eyes open.

 

 

* incidentally, he isn't even doing the 5 - 8 parenting time any longer. He did it for about a month or so, but since his child support stays the same either way, he has opted not to do it.

[Juliette ne pas]

Yes your right....... and I will start looking into future support for my little ones, as they will be with me for the long haul....I'm good with it and wouldn't have it any other way

[Juliette ne pas]

Mad king Louie has struck again after n/c for harassing ....he makes plans with kiddos on phone without contacting me. I don't know what to say....... So much for not putting the kiddos in the middle. Welcome to my world, I am formed through my children of what will and won't be, by the benevolent dictator, king Louie. Amazing, just when I though he would have to be civil and at least show some respect in communicating with me.....hahaha, silly me.

[Jeffbobo]

Mad king Louie has struck again after n/c for harassing ....he makes plans with kiddos on phone without contacting me. I don't know what to say....... So much for not putting the kiddos in the middle. Welcome to my world, I am formed through my children of what will and won't be, by the benevolent dictator, king Louie. Amazing, just when I though he would have to be civil and at least show some respect in communicating with me.....hahaha, silly me.

 

Lol! Welcome to your world? This had been my world for the better part of 2 years in various forms. Please... MAKE SURE you get a custody plan in place. Without it, it's just going to be another point of contention, power struggle and just plain confusion for all. My ex did the same darn thing. Used every excuse in the book to justify it. NEVER put the kids in this situation because

1. They are forced to choose between mom and dad. It is totally unfair and unacceptable to put this on the kids. They are kids. They don't need that kind of pressure and responsibily. That's what we are for!

2. Over time you are teaching your kids how to manipulate to get what they want. For instance, they start thinking, well dad lets us do this and mom doesn't so I want to stay with dad. Or mom won't say no to X but dad will.

3. They need stability as much as possible. They shouldn't be asking you, where they are going to be staying on such and such a day, they should know! Monday/Wednesday with dad, Tuesday/Thursday with mom. Then alternate every Friday/Saturday/Sunday. That's what I have, it's clear and known by all. And it works great because there isn't really a pickup/drop-off time, specifically during the school year.

 

After you nail down a custody schedule plan, focus on a holiday and special day custody plan. For us, we alternate holidays by year, with the exception of x-mas. That, we alternate by year but split x-mas day/eve. Father and Mother's Day assume they're with respective parent. Stick with and live by the plan. There will be exceptions to the plan such as business trips, death/illness in the family, etc. Make sure to put something in the plan to accommodate this.

 

Lastly, the more open the plan, the more it can be abused. For example, if you forked out a ton o' cash for that ski trip and your ex knows it, you don't want them sabotaging that in any way.

[lostandhurt]

It is okay to vent here but be sure to take the high road when it comes to your ex anywhere else. Remember if you let his games get to you then he is going to keep doing them and if it bothers you long term he is winning by making your life terrible.

 

Jeff is right about a solid custody agreement. It is much easier to put in the time now then try and take him back to court to modify it later. Please google it so you can start to put a outline together of what you want the agreement to look like.

 

The marriage is over and if you can look at it correctly there are no battle lines. Divorce is a business arrangement that a judge signs off on. Try and keep that in mind when all these games are being played.

 

I have often said the high road is uphill both ways but once you reach the top it is well worth it. Your children will in time see the real truth and make their own minds up on who has always been there for them.

 

My son and I are closer now than any other time and every time my ex pulls some crap it just brings he and I closer and closer. By the way that just happened yesterday.....again.

 

Be smart, don't let your ego run your emotions and ask yourself "what good will come from me doing or saying__________" before you say it. If you let yourself get sucked in to his world you will loose precious time.

 

Hang in there

Lost

[waffle]

. . . a solid custody agreement. It is much easier to put in the time now then try and take him back to court to modify it later.

 

I would have preferred this myself, actually, problem is our Friend of the Court office (might be called something else in other places) said the exact opposite. Said since our minor children aren't little (they are 13 and 16) they would only give "suggested guidelines" but specifically told me a hard and fast schedule wouldn't be possible because of the age of the kids so we should figure it out ourselves and "Friend of the Court would prefer not to be involved" (they also said they'd prefer not to order child support and instead, if I need $100 here or there for something for the kids, to just ask xH for it. Right. Like he would actually pay for something unless he was forced to). I kid you not, that's what they said. I was told if the kids want to go hang out at dad's for an evening that is not in his suggested visitation, that I cannot deny it. And it's important to note that I have sole custody. xH left that initial meeting ecstatic, because what he heard was he had no responsibilities. I told him he WOULD pay child support and it would be via wage garnishment, and he is and it is. I fought for it and I got it. If I had let him and his piece of sh*t lawyer walk all over me, believe me they would have. Fortunately the visitation thing hasn't hasn't been an issue because xH is a very uninvolved dad, and I need the flexibility anyway because they have a lot of activities and since xH doesn't concern himself with any of that, me doing everything is the exact same thing I've been doing for the past 20+ years anyway. Even the every other weekend thing that he's been struggling to do is far more responsibility than he's ever had. If he ever actually wanted to make plans with the kids, I'm not sure what I'd do. Probably let him, I guess.

[Juliette ne pas]

Well have first court hearing soon for child support and post separation pay, next will be custody mediation and property division......it hurts but, I think I can finally see that this is the best solution all around. Started looking at future homes and looking at classes for possible career fields and seeing day light for the first time...it will be tough and he has his future in the bag so to speak, but I know couldn't and didn't do it alone...I supported him, I just hope that things will bode well for me as well. I hope that the truth will prevail and all will see it. That the pain and hurt thAt my kiddos and I both have suffered will be no more, that we will rise above this difficult circumstances. I pray he will choose to do what is best for the kiddos and stop looking at this as a competition where there is only one winner. I wish that we could see and hear things from their prospective. I feel Im in a better frame of mind, I just pray it lasts.

[benga]

Juliette - hang in there. The rollercoaster ride gets earlier with the passage of time. Focus on healing yourself, and you will see light at the end of the tunnel....

[lostandhurt]

Juliette,

 

Like Benga says it will get easier.

 

Brace yourself because things will begin to ease up and then he will start some crap again. That is what this thread is all about.

 

Rollercoasters have many ups and downs and you are on one like it or not. Stay focused on the important issues as this goes along. Keep your ego in check and see the big picture. If he wants to argue over something that matters little to you put up a small fight but then work it so you get something in return or some other consession. This really is a bussiness negotiation so treat it as such.

 

If he goes around you to make plans with the children then make that part of the custody aggreemet that all plans be arranged between the two of you and once aggreed on then the children will be told.

 

It sounds like you are doing better so keep posting and take care of yourself.

 

Lost

[Juliette ne pas]

Now the down swing, I was stupid and talked to him....bad move, his lawyer through up that I should file for bankruptcy to save his career, yet he want custody and more... I don't know what he will pull next. I am so crushed and to think he caused my family and my son believe that he wanted to reconcile...all lies, I just want this over with NOW! He is my definition of a wolf date, if it was only that easy to get rid of him, you better believe I'd chew off my own arm to be rid of him. To think I loved him and stood by his side and supported him for almost a quarter of a century. The worst part is the my kiddos have to suffer through this, he causes them to be anxious because of his anger issues. The only reason they feel kinda ok with him, is that they think he is in counseling...not so, he has only gone once so far. there is so much I want to say so here goes, 54376i69p7iikj!#$!%#%&$&^*^*(&())()(*&&*^^$%$@#!... I just really hope that the truth will be made known, that my kiddos will come out on top and hopefully me too...but know this my kiddos are my life, my heart, all I want is what is best for them...and truth is I am not 100% sure, I need wisdom in this and hope I will receive it and that its not too late. Please lift my kiddos and I up (and their dad as well).

[benga]

Juliette - I hear you and understand your emotions. This will be a rollercoaster for a while. Your best bet will be to STOP thinking about his weird behaviours. They wont make sense to you because he isn't the same person you were once married to. Its like he has been possessed by some crazy #$#*l, isnt it? All you can do is help yourself, work on yourself and heal from this. You need to allow yourself to "feel" every emotion you are experiencing and process the hurt the way it is. It makes the healing process easier. Stop thinking about his reactions and his odd behaviour. You have absolutely no power or control (not that you should ever) over him.

 

I would suggest you read lost's tag line, understand it and hopefully appreciate it. It helped me make sense of something that clearly made no sense to me at the time.

 

Most of us here have dealt with and hopefully recovered from similar situations. You will get there too. Take the high road and dont try to engage with him at any level besides coordination for the children. Nothing he says or does will make any sense to you right now.....

 

Keep posting, keep sharing.. We are hear for you..

 

Cheere

Benga

[lostandhurt]

Juliette,

I have this framed and sitting on my dresser so I see it when I go to bed and when I wake in the morning. I literally read it every day, twice a day to keep me focused on what I needed to do.

 

Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; Courage to change the things I can; and wisdom to know the difference.

Living one day at a time; Enjoying one moment at a time; Accepting hardships as the pathway to peace and happiness;

 

Benga is correct that you cannot try and make sense of non-sense. Your ex is trying to control you and his lawyer is helping him. The only way that can happen is if you let it happen. No more talking to him unless it is about the children. That is all there is for you two to talk about now. The lawyers will handle the rest.

Trusting that I may be reasonably happy in this life and forever.

It isn't your job to "save his carreer" or anything else. He is a big boy and can handle himself and his life just fine.

Let me caution you about the "I just want this over" thinking. Of course you want it over but far to many times people agree to things just to get it over with only to regret it months later. Be strong and stay focused on what is really important. They will try to break you down so you will give in so be wary of that.

 

Your children will be fine. The scars will heal and fade over time and all this will be in the past. They have one loving and caring parent which is more than many children have these days. This will make you a better parent, a stronger person and much more than you ever were. It did for many of us on this thread through the years including Benga and myself.

 

If you think you can have a rational discussion with him think again. Make this easy on yourself by keeping your distance from him. He is not the man you fell in love with...

 

Lost

[Juliette ne pas]

just got back with kiddos from visitation, he acts as if things are fine, even normal. He opens my car door to say bye to kiddos, I felt so anxious that I felt like screaming. I'm not ok with this, I didn't want this. I'm trying to be brave for my little ones....but this is so hard. He knows he is supposed to have supervised visits and he's trying to talk me into handing the kiddos over without them being supervised. He asked this twice, I told him I needed to follow what the lawyer said. He is trying to take everything from me, has told everyone I'm a liar and the worst part is now I don't know who my friends are. No one wants to hear it. I am so tired, I want to cry and can't, I just need a break, this is just too much. I feel like my little world is dying and decaying rapidly in front of me. I know everyone saying things will get better with time, I truly hope so.

[waffle]

I'm not ok with this, I didn't want this.

What, you want him back?

 

He knows he is supposed to have supervised visits and he's trying to talk me into handing the kiddos over without them being supervised. He asked this twice, I told him I needed to follow what the lawyer said.

Lawyers can't make that decision. Is this court-ordered? If not, you may be acting illegally so be very careful. If so, then there is a 0% chance he will get anything resembling custody so you're worrying for nothing.

[lostandhurt]

The darkest before the light. That is where you are right now. All you see is a long dark tunnel but soon....very soon you will begin to see a glimmer of light.

 

Stick to the legal agreements. They are your guide right now. Learn them and keep a copy with you at all times so you can show him if needed.

 

I know this isn't easy but you can and will survive this. Many of us thought just like you did and we made it out the other side.

 

Best wishes

Lost

[Juliette ne pas]

What, you want him back?

 

I still love him, I can't go back to the way things were, but it's hard. I'm waffling ; ) Don't worry he is finished with me and wants nothing more than to hurt me with all of this.

 

 

Lawyers can't make that decision. Is this court-ordered? If not, you may be acting illegally so be very careful. If so, then there is a 0% chance he will get anything resembling custody so you're worrying for nothing.

 

Going off safety plan from DSS and military protective order has a provision in it. Yes, I am trying to be very careful, this is a very uneasy situation.

Thanks waffle.

[Juliette ne pas]

The darkest before the light. That is where you are right now. All you see is a long dark tunnel but soon....very soon you will begin to see a glimmer of light.

 

Stick to the legal agreements. They are your guide right now. Learn them and keep a copy with you at all times so you can show him if needed.

 

I know this isn't easy but you can and will survive this. Many of us thought just like you did and we made it out the other side.

 

Best wishes

Lost

 

Thank you lost,

I needed that, I'm trying.