My wife and her ex

[tiredofvampires]

Well, I can't speak for the OP's wife. Maybe she can let us know what her interests are in her ex (she did mention their sharing music). I know from my own experiences going on recently with exes 20 years past, that even without being a signficant love affair, I shared a lot with one of them (who has a family now) and just feel interested in his life and the things we did share. I am looking forward to getting re-aquainted (if his life permits) based on a caring for one another and interests in common (also music/musical background.) That's enough for me. It's just FUN, pure FUN! Just having a good time feeling at ease and enjoying a conversation with someone -- that being fun and good in and of itself -- and an end unto itself.

 

BTW, OP, as for the poll being weighted 60/40 in your favor -- you are giving me waaaaay too much credit, lol. I think you you've probably got more like 80-90% on me. As I said in my other thread about jealousy and trust, most people are not only jealous to some extent, but guard that jealousy. Most people believe it's healthy and wouldn't dream of trying to get rid of it. It is a "weapon" of self-defense that everyone should carry if they are smart. So the thinking commonly goes.

[Kalika]

I doubt people would answer very objectively to a poll like that. The same people who would say that they wouldn't mind their bf/gf going out with an ex, will be the same ones posting on here about whether or not they should worry about this rendevouz

[tiredofvampires]

I doubt people would answer very objectively to a poll like that. The same people who would say that they wouldn't mind their bf/gf going out with an ex, will be the same ones posting on here about whether or not they should worry about this rendevouz

 

I'm not sure I understand...if they didn't mind their bf/gf going out with an ex, why would they worry? They wouldn't even post here, they'd just let them go.

 

Also, I don't think the poll is about "objectivity" (fact vs. opinion), is it? It's to ask people what the "rules"/boundaries are that have been understood in their relationship. People state that all the time in these posts, i.e., "My bf and I don't go out dancing unless it is with eachother." Or, "I would not do lunch with an ex." That type of thing.

[Kalika]

I'm not sure I understand...if they didn't mind their bf/gf going out with an ex, why would they worry? They wouldn't even post here, they'd just let them go.

 

Also, I don't think the poll is about "objectivity" (fact vs. opinion), is it? It's to ask people what the "rules"/boundaries are that have been understood in their relationship. People state that all the time in these posts, i.e., "My bf and I don't go out dancing unless it is with eachother." Or, "I would not do lunch with an ex." That type of thing.

 

People won't answer objectively about their own insecurities. No one wants to admit that they'd be jealous. Sure, I'd let my hypothetical boyfriend meet up with his hypothetical ex because hypothetically, I trust him. In reality, emotions cloud our rationality.

 

Either way, I agree with the other posters that commented about the lack of friendship... This other guy is basically a nobody and I don't see why he's even in the picture in the first place. Maybe OP's wife could talk to him on the phone occasionally, but decline personal invitations to dine away from their spouses.

 

Just a thought.

[Rabican]

And really, I would like to know a couple of things. All you he-men are welcome to respond:

 

1. You all say that a sexual past makes this different. HOW? I don't want circular reasoning here, I want a REAL reason why if two people once had sex and never will again, and do not WANT to, how does this affect your relationship with your SO?

 

My reason: Respect.

 

Its just the way I was raised. I cant imagine my dad hanging out with a woman that he had previous sexual relations with and my mom being ok with it.. Or vice versa.

 

I think it is disrespectful, unnecessary to hang onto 'ex' boyfriends/ girlfriends etc. as friends. Especially when that friendship extends about as far as I can throw a guy. Example, my girl was friends with a guy before, in her words they just hung out and had sex back in the day. So my thought was.... what is, can, could there be for them to base a real friendship on. Nothing good. So its a situation better left alone.

 

So my real answer is just respect and compassion towards your partner. And it shouldnt be a one way street, its gotta go both ways.

 

That said, if the partner is OK with their SO hanging out with an ex, then by all means go for it. But when the partner is not, you respect your partners feelings. This isnt an area (in my opinion) that is unreasonable. Its not like you are demanding your wife to stop talking to all friends and family because you dont like them.

[Rabican]

People won't answer objectively about their own insecurities. No one wants to admit that they'd be jealous. Sure, I'd let my hypothetical boyfriend meet up with his hypothetical ex because hypothetically, I trust him. In reality, emotions cloud our rationality.

 

Either way, I agree with the other posters that commented about the lack of friendship... This other guy is basically a nobody and I don't see why he's even in the picture in the first place. Maybe OP's wife could talk to him on the phone occasionally, but decline personal invitations to dine away from their spouses.

 

Just a thought.

 

I disagree, If I was in mrjealousguys shoes Id be saying the same thing. Only difference is Id have probably already said its time for the highway.

[tiredofvampires]

Thanks, Rabican, for your answer to my question #1. I have some thoughts on your response.

 

But I am interested in your answers to #2 and #3.

[Rabican]

#1 Answered in my previous post.

 

#2 Yes, my rule (and I abide by it as well) my fiance and I are not 'friends' with people with whom we have past sexual relations. If their 'friendship' is or was based on some common interest, ie a sport, playing guitar etc. then I would have no problem with the friendship... so long as the friendship is PLATONIC and doesnt include a bunch of sexual innuendo, flirting etc. I believe that the sexual history changes that though... and it cannot be 100% platonic afterwards. 99% maybe... but not 100

 

Oh, let me clarify one thing. I dont mind her talking to her one ex, and several of her other guy friends. The one ex seems to me to keep things respectful, and I have not seen anything or heard anything that makes me think otherwise. however I would draw the line at her hanging out with him if I were not there. And another of her guy friends is just a non threat altogether... so I dont care. Just so were clear, my fiance can, and does still talk to other guys. Theres just a boundary regarding who and how... ie no hanging out at some dudes house, and no talking with a guy who cant respect the fact that were together.

 

 

#3 If their friendship was worth having, and worth keeping, and something that is important enough to dismiss the feelings of her husband and risk her marriage over... then they would not have gone 20 years without contact. That is such a HUGE amount of time that most people are not even the same person anymore. So WHAT I ask is the foundation that this newly rekindled friendship is built on. Sounds fishy to me. No I think if they were truly friends you would at least get a postcard once every few years, or a quick email saying hey just wanted to say hello and give you my new address so we can keep in touch. But 20 years of nothing... ehmm somethings up there.

[thetallguy]

Great thread, very interesting.

 

Thanks to Whiteforest and Kalika for giving us a different female view. With due respect to Tiredofvampires, I think most people, male or female, do have an issue concerning the presense of exes, the boundaries that exist if any.

 

Tiredofvampires, frankly, "exes of 20 years who know you better than anyone" are going to be a real turn-off for any new man in your life, but I guess you have to decide where your priorities lie. You and your exes, as you describe, seem to be like some extended family...as a man (and I never considered myself Neanderthal, just normal) I would have big problems 'dating' someone whose exes were omnipresent. And most women I know think the same way...

 

Slightlyjealousguy, I feel for you dude.

 

I had thought recently of contacting an ex from 20 years ago (I'm wondering if the UK university is the same one...), it would interesting to chat. We had gone out for the best part of 2 years and had plenty in common, before I took a job overseas and things naturally came to an end. Then I thought: why bother ? Why, for MY curiosity, create a few ructions or grief in her current marriage ? What would be the sum total of good created by such an action ? It would probably be negative, as the recent contact of 'John' with your wife.

 

To Slightlyjealousguy'swife: shouldn't you let sleeping dogs lie ? I understand the curiosity thing, but I can see where you hubby is coming from on this. By the way, as for his not being particularly expansive about his past, in my own experience women like to talk about these things, ex loves and boyfriends, in a way that men do not. I have little to be ashamed about in my past, but it is just too intimate for me to tell my current lover, with whom I share everything else. She, on the other hand, has told me pretty well everything, unasked. Women do that don't they ?

 

I don't think this is worth ultimatums of divorce and so on, really, but why cause the grief and the hurt ?

 

My own story:

[tiredofvampires]

tallguy,

 

Thanks for your fresh blood on the thread.

 

I have only a moment now, and will visit your story/link later, but have a few thoughts at present:

 

Tiredofvampires, frankly, "exes of 20 years who know you better than anyone" are going to be a real turn-off for any new man in your life, but I guess you have to decide where your priorities lie. You and your exes, as you describe, seem to be like some extended family...as a man (and I never considered myself Neanderthal, just normal) I would have big problems 'dating' someone whose exes were omnipresent. And most women I know think the same way...

 

These parts I've put in bold are ones that I feel somewhat misrepresent what I've said. If the quote that you have pulled of "exes of 20 years that know you better than anyone else" is something I said, this must be a dang long thread because I don't recall saying that. I am not sure which post you are pulling that from, because I do not have any ex in my life that I've known for 20 years who knows me better than anyone else. In fact, I made a very deliberate point of using examples that pertain to the OP's thread: two people that have been incommunicado for 20 years, who I used to date, and wish to re-connect. That is the case with two men recently in my life, which I have described in this thread. Neither of them "know me better than anyone else" but nor is it correct to say that we have nothing in common anymore that can't be benignly shared, as the opposing posters claim. The main contention here has not been that I have a long past of 20 years with anyone I used to date, but rather the opposite, that they are so very innocuous because of the time lapse.

 

As a matter of fact, the male point of view on this thread has consistently been that due to the lapse in time and not knowing eachother much anymore (or at all), this is a reason to say there is nothing worthwhile about a connection now at all. I countered that by asking, "so what if OP's wife had known John very well for 20 years, would that have made a difference to you because there was more substance to the friendship?" My guess was that if anything, that would make him seem like even more of a threat than if they were separated by so much time and space. I never did get an answer to that question even though the logical answer to "they don't have any friendship left after all these years so why is this important?" is: well I don't think if they were best friends this would emotionally work for you at all, either!! So 20 years ago really is irrelavent, isn't it? The issue is how close is too close to an ex, whether you barely kept in contact or whether they are dear to you after so long.

 

Omnipresent. What I have described is my life being open to communication and cultivating normal frienships with exes, if that opportunity presents (and for the record, most of my exes are permanently gone into the ether). This doesn't mean that they are "omnipresent." And I am not suggesting that John be "omnipresent." A coffee or lunch from time to time, a phone call from time to time, an e-mail when the mood strikes -- just like any other friend -- is what I'm talking about. I wouldn't characterize any of my friendships while I'm with an SO as being "omnipresent", just "activated" and in varying degrees and frequency of contact. I have never had a past bf invade the primary space of my relationship, which always took priority. There was no interference. For instance, when my bf (who wasn't the jealous type of man, who I've mentioned in other posts, which jealousguy asked about as a "perfect partner" for me) was busy in his studio working, I'd go out to a theatrical performance with one of my exes from years ago. This kind of thing was not the "norm", it was a very occasional sort of thing, and months would go by between any contact like that. But you see, it did not detract from my bf's time with me, or my love for him, or commitment, or desire only for him. Sexuality didn't even enter my mind with this ex, we talked about his business, the theatrical stuff we both enjoyed, his wife and her latest kooky ideas, etc. Then we said, "had fun, goodnight!" and went our separate ways. Once in a while, we'd exchange a lively email, and then again, time would go by. So this is hardly "omnipresent." If my bf had threatened me with an ultimatum, we would have lost our relationship over a fantasy of something happening, not something actually happening. We stayed together and it was strong despite these events which didn't dent our commitment one iota, and he was free to do the same. Neither of us took advantage of this and always chose naturally to do just about every major thing together. We broke up over reasons entirely unrelated. So this goes to show this kind of thing CAN work and not turn into a soap opera of broken hearts, betrayal, grief and hurt. All I'm saying is that it's POSSIBLE. It's POSSIBLE to live without this restriction and be okay.

 

You may want to also follow a very similar thread on this forum, my own thread, and the story of one poster there who describes how she handled her SO going to lunch with an ex. It IS possible.

 

None of these scenarios I've talked about involve massive, unbalanced time with an ex.

 

And here is another very important point: rather than generalizations, I think people should take life on a case-by-case basis. How does this apply to me? Well, I have a disability. I can't work. I need a lot of moral, social, practical and emotional support because of this. And, partly due to this, I never was the type to just jump in bed with someone, but rather get to know them and have a "kindred spirit" connection to them, where we really got to care about eachother's lives. In the periods when I was single, they remained part of my support network, at least one or two of them. My best friend now is such a person, he is very devoted as friends go, and does many things to help me out that I simply can't do on my own. He has provided counsel, elbow grease, professional guidance and in many ways just company when I was down and out and alone. So we have a big part in eachother's lives. When he got another gf after me, this toned down quite a bit, as she was very jealous (had been cheated on before), but our friendship was too strong to just disconnect. I expect him to be an integral part of my life, and hope he will be for the rest of my life, as he DOES know me better than most people (though we've only known eachother for 8 years, not 20). Of course, when I get a bf, and spend time with him, he will take the place of this ex in many respects, doing a lot of the things he does. But there would still be a connection, and I would not want my partner/husband to ask me to get rid of someone and dump a person who has been such a godsend to me -- A REAL, TRUE FRIEND who stuck by me. True friends are precious and I think a mature man will respect that even if he has some insecurity, which I would hope to put to rest by demonstrating my love for him.

 

And to be equal, I would give him the same liberty, though in all honesty, my ex who I am grieving over now, who was very jealous and insecure with me, DID have a woman friend/colleague who he had dated 20 years ago. I believe I mentioned her in this thread as well. I cried a lot of tears comparing myself to her -- her sexiness (my bf even said he thought she was sexy!!), the way he idolized her career success and talent, everything including that they had lived together and "once been in love" (his words.) So I felt very inadequate compared to her for the entire duration of our relationship. Would he have given contact with her up for me? I don't think so, actually. Not seen her one-on-one maybe, but severed it as our OP is demanding, NO. She was just too important a fixture in his life, and this is after a long winter of years of NC with them at one point.

 

My position was, what right do I have to shut this down? She means something to his life. It would be very selfish of me to ask him to stop communicating with her, or even ask him not to see her for a tea at his place because I felt inadequate. The source of the inadequacy feeling is ME, not her. So you can guild something icky with gold, but it's still icky inside. You can stick your head in the sand and say hey, now I feel great, but it's because you have just sold your soul to self-protection, not love. I'm not saying jealousy and love in a relationship can't co-exist, but I believe jealousy, as an emotion, diminishes what love has the potential to do and be.

I do know of couples just like me, such as my sister who is married nearly as long as the OP. Her husband allows her to visit a city on business where an old ex resides, and she stays with him to cut costs (no need for hotels). My brother-in-law not only is fine with this, but encourages it from a financial standpoint! He also knows this guy and they get along. So that's really cool and I'm all for that. But it's not mandatory that my sis, her hubby and this guy ALWAYS be together at the same time. If my sister is travelling along and is in that city, she stays at the guy's house, no problem. They also email quite regularly, and engage in confidente-type "girlie" discussions. This guy is desperate to find a gf, and my sis is always advising him. So again, there is no -- I repeat -- no repercussions due to this. As a matter of fact, that same guy has a roomate (female) who he was once upon a time romantically linked to, but no more. And his current date is quite aware of this, but it's been inconsequential to the dating picture. Then there is the primary life example of my parents. Rabican describes how his father and mother never would have contact with an ex. Well, my parents sustained lifelong relationships with exes who had new lives and lived far away. So apparently, there is a world of people out there who don't feel this is so abhorently immoral and dangerous and don't live with that kind of suspicion. I would be fascinated to know what divides the two types of people. My guess is that it is prior experience and also temperament, combined. I also think, as I said, that people think others will do as they do. My ex bf was very jealous in part I believe because he knew as a man he was capable of "impure" thoughts about other women, so he took that out on me in a brutal way.

 

BTW, I asked my sister why her husband is like this, and she asked him. He said he was a late-bloomer in school with girls, and got a really late start. Somehow, he feels this helped him come to a peace within himself where he didn't need a woman to validate his worth or competance. This is the exact same answer my good friend here (ex, of 8 years) said: that he simply didn't need someone else to convince him that he was worthy of attention and proof of his manliness. So it would appear that there is a common denominator here: confidence = less jealousy.

 

And can't we all stand to learn that level of confidence?

 

Of course as I say in other posts, whatever works for you.

[thetallguy]

TOV, you are one hell of a quick typist...

I guess this is all about alpha and beta males and females, you generally mix with one type and I with another.

I know few if any men who would be as cool as your brother-in-law about their wife's sleeping over with an ex. I'm not saying 'morally abhorrent' either, but it's just so far from what I would regard normal, acceptable behaviour. Hey, I have no problem at my SO looking sexy, going out, dancing etc, no need to chaperone either, but I do have a problem about keeping exes in the frame, I really do.

Where I differ with the OP is that I do not hate them, that's dumb. I just don't want them around. I won't go out of my way to avoid them either. It strikes me that there are so many interesting people around that one can create a great social life in a couple without having a bunch of exes being part of it. If I wanted that I'd live in a commune or something...

I would also state that none of my ex girlfriends, nor my current one, has shown much interest in the nitty-gritty details of my past, nor in meeting any of their forerunners....

[tiredofvampires]

Well, tallguy,

 

I don't think I'd live in a "commune", if you mean the hippie type thing. I am not a "free love" person at all. Does the scenarios I described of sporadic meetings and contacts seem at all reasonable to you? Or are you saying, accross the board, no exes, no matter what, should have any sort of friendship going? What would you say to a situation like mine, where I have very valued, established friendships with these people who are supportive in my life, and a new bf comes into my picture. Are you saying I must forsake these supports? Be a fair-weather friend? Even in this very thread, Kalika and Iceman have said that my current friend who was 20 years ago an ex would be an absolute JERK to cut me out of his life, after I've supported him through this time, if he gets a gf. They said he was basically a douche bag who is using me and would be a lousy friend to just bail. So how does that square with the theory that exes should remove themselves out the the picture as friends?

 

You sound like you have some of the similar values as my ex (who I broke up with most recently) who I am suffering a lot over. You will find this odd, but I actually wish that I was more like your past gf's and current one, if it would have meant making him happy and that relationship working out. He would not tell me nitty-gritty details, even generalized details about any of the many women in his past. I got the sense of his being a closed door in that way, and I didn't like the feeling that somehow, his past was totally irrelevant to my knowing who he had become and how. To me, a best friend does tell you such things of personal history. It's not like the man I know is only the guy who is now 42 years old. I feel it's a bit for me like walking into a room with a blindfold on, having the blindfold removed, and being told to just stare ahead at the podium with tunnel vision. Don't look to your sides, don't look behind you, just straight ahead. I would not have a good feeling about that room, in-the-round. I would feel I have only a piece of the picture.

 

I have thankfully read on other threads about other women who agree that WOMEN in general do feel more desire to talk about their pasts (including this OP's wife) and to ask about their beloved's past. To me, this is about knowing a whole person more thorougly and deeply. I guess for some people it just doesn't matter. I can't lie to myself though and make it all not count. With my bf, I felt like I was censoring myself 20 times a day, because after a while I was scared to even reference ANYTHING, he had gotten that hypersensitive. I felt oppressed and repressed. I want a tolerant, open and accepting partner who wants to know me and be known. I'm not sure what is so bad about this to your "alpha" way of thinking. Given that none of it has a bearing on the present.

 

I would not go into explicit gory details with names and citations about sexual stuff for the most part, and would NEVER compare my partner to anyone in the past. I DO have a line there. I would never say "so and so did this and that, and he was good at it, and how come you don't do that for me?" Any part of that or the whole, no way. I can filter certain things. And I have never done anything but made my last bf constantly complimented about his manliness and machismo, and addressed insecurities with a lot of reassurance.

 

I just wish that I didn't have to feel stifled in a conversation. He said he had felt "protected" in ways that other women gave him that I didn't do for him, so if anything, by expressing his dismay, he was comparing ME unfavorably to women in his past. He told me a lot of ways I didn't match up emotionally and otherwise, even though there were no "contacts" that were inappropriate. So go figure. I would much rather he had tea with his friend (which he did admit he wanted to, only he wouldn't out of respect for me), than to tell me all the ways his previous gfs (who had no names, or faces, just this awful sense of mystery and mystique for me, which makes ME insecure) had been better for his emotional state. No matter what I did to show my love it didn't add up for him.

 

But it's all my fault, isn't it? My emotional state doesn't matter at all, does it? That I would want to ask and know these things? So there really is no compromise. It is shut up and put up, the person who is jealous gets the priority for some reason. The other person's emotional needs getting met doesn't even matter, or is categorically dismissed. The issue of disclosure and propriety is a one-way street when it comes to what should be done.

 

Even if not for this issue, I believe all the other topics that plagued us were bad enough, but those are separate issues.

[tiredofvampires]

Incidentally:

 

As I said, my ex bf, who claimed to be so respectful did have dinner with the ex I mentioned who he was helping out to get on her feet. He said it was nice seeing her again and he enjoyed the dinner (even though I could conceive her as a real threat because she still clearly had a thing for him.) And he did express wanting to see his colleague (a fellow musician he still played gigs with) privately for tea. He WANTED these things.

 

Should I have denied him these things that he wanted? Would that have enriched our relationship for me to prevent these things? Would it have ensured that he loved me more?

 

I am trying to get to the bottom of this, what I and we would have gained if I'd said NO WAY about these things.

 

Also, do you feel this is a double standard on his part? He was upset that my ex ex (from years before who was no longer in love with me) came over to watch tv and fix my computer or help me, or go out to a show (I should add my bf was long distance, so physically he couldn't be there to do these things himself with me, which would have been my first choice), but long distance it was okay for him to have dinner with an ex that was still certifiably in love with him?

 

This is just one example in this relationship where I gave and gave and gave of my heart with the purest expectations and intent and I was, well **** on in return.

[thetallguy]

TOV, you are right in a lot of what you say. I am interested to read what you write about understanding the whole person, which necessitates a certain recounting of the past, the mistakes, the conclusions etc.

Of course, being only a semi-neanderthal, I understand that. It's a tough one. A man, even an alpha, needs to feel some sort of primacy and exclusivity in a new relationship. He also doesn't want to feel he is just the 'current boyfriend', number 23, part of a varied patchwork quilt of men who have contributed to make a woman what she is today. But I do see where you're coming from, it is idiotic not to be able to refer to large parts of our lives because we were with someone else at the time. I would just suggest that these conversations have to be had at the appropriate moment, when there is full confidence, at the end of a beautiful day, after making love, a bottle of wine, and so on.

I still agree with the other posters that the guy from 20 years ago who just wants to use you as an emotional crutch before he discards you again...well, that's not friendship by any definition I recognise.

Also, to go back to the OP, I think that it was unwise for his wife to meet with one-night stands of 20 years ago out of curiosity. What has it achieved for the otherwise happy marriage of the OP ? Not a lot I would say....

[tiredofvampires]

Of course, being only a semi-neanderthal, I understand that.

 

"Semi" is better than flaming. Much.

 

He also doesn't want to feel he is just the 'current boyfriend', number 23, part of a varied patchwork quilt of men who have contributed to make a woman what she is today. But I do see where you're coming from, it is idiotic not to be able to refer to large parts of our lives because we were with someone else at the time. I would just suggest that these conversations have to be had at the appropriate moment, when there is full confidence, at the end of a beautiful day, after making love, a bottle of wine, and so on.

 

Well if I am aiming my sights on marrying this guy and holding out for him as my life partner, which he knew I was, he should be able to recognize that he is not just "pick a number and stand in line" boyfriend. A man who I think of as the crowing glory in my life after all the others, the one I finally marry, can't possibly have anything but First Place prize, right? I really thought he would be the final station for me, I told him in so many ways I wanted him to take me off the market. I had never felt so sure in my life that my happy ending was to come (stupid romantic I was, and how I fell for his hyper-romanticism; which by the way, I think runs hand-in-hand with his shallowness about what the "proof" of love is, interestingly.) Love really, at bottom, is wanting the best for the other person, that is true love;possessive love is quite a notch down in my view. So in my last post, I asked what about depriving one another of something we want to enjoy (and as I mentioned in my case, involved men who were of great moral support to me), so long as it doesn't detract from the primary relationship, what about that is good? And loving? It is still a central question.

 

And one which, by the way, in my case as I've described, has some particulars that didn't seem to factor in. In a sense, I could have been anyone to him, no one special, just another girl with some generic past. It's almost as though my life didn't matter to him. I have NEVER had a one night stand in my life, due to some medical hardships and personal sensitivities...I didn't, sadly, have much of a past. My bf knew of this very private issue, and yet he continued to see me in this light. A "patchwork" of many men who had contributed to my life? Well, everyone in my life is part of that, not just MEN. ALL my experiences totalled up. Why not love the sum total and the parts, all? To know is to understand another. To me, anyway. And, yes -- I couldn't agree more. Whoever said that I would not talk about it in an intimate setting, with a beautiful day together and lovemaking and just a feeling of ease? I would cherish that! It is the stuff of great intimacy for me. Connection. By letting someone into my life and past, I am actually entrusting them with the keys to my heart. I am letting them into places that only a very special person could go. That is how I felt about the confidences men have had with me, when I thought they were "the one." I never saw any of them as some "waystation" but someone with whom I wished to make dearly special in ways where we could go together and visit one another's stories and lives, and anecdotes. I was denied that, and why? I could never be in the past again just by revisiting it with my beloved over leftover cheesecake and a bottle of wine. It is for us to exchange 'movies' in a way, to watch eachother's movies in the telling, but to be there together to love eachother in and by the telling. Don't you feel so special telling someone your private things? Doesn't that make them SPECIAL? That is where your primacy comes in, alpha male. You have her rapt attention and can be her rapt audience, which makes you good as gold.

 

I have the feeling I've lost people here completely now...not that anyone is really left on this thread, lol...

 

Anyway. The OP's wife wants this intimacy with him, and that is the most telling sign to me that she wants HIM, and he is unshakably primary. The very things he can do to foster a stronger bond with her internally, he is not willing to do. Has no desire to. He can only swat at knats outside him that bother him, rather than putting on perfume that repels them and draws his butterfly.

 

And still, it makes no sense to me that people have all, every one, agreed that my ex-friend who has gotten back in touch with me after 20 years to unload his grief and share our sad stories, would be a crappy friend to just bail on me if/when he gets a gf -- so if that's true, doesn't this whole theory of shutting out exes fall to the ground? If his gf said "get rid of her" (me), what should his answer be to that? "Ok, honey, since you say so." He of course, with his attitude, would beat her to the punch, as he told me he would, so she wouldn't feel the slightest bit jealous. This seems to agree with everything the "anti-exes" are saying on this thread. Yet you say he would be a jerk for doing that to me, and yet he is an EX. And he was out of m life for nearly 20 years, except for a run-in on the highway by chance 8 years ago.

 

Oh, one more thing. "John", the OP's wife's friend, was more than a bed buddy and one-night stand as I take it. It seems he had some significance in her life, worthy of not just remembrance but some common interest. They shared artistic interests, music, a social circle. Not to mention, he was someone who appreciated her at a time when she felt unsure of herself . People who appreciate us are never forgotten, and it seems that what they appreciated goes deeper and beyond sex. That is the part that remained.

 

It is not that it was nothing and meaningless.

 

It was just dormant while their lives moved on. Now if they have a chance to enjoy eachother's company, simply put, what is the harm? The answer to this cannot be "the harm it does to the relationship is that it causes harm to the relationship." That is circular reasoning, my friend.

[thetallguy]

"Now if they have a chance to enjoy eachother's company, simply put, what is the harm?"

 

Well, simply put, the harm is that it has sufficiently disturbed the OP that he come and post here. I would have said that, a fairly insignificant 'ship that passed in the night' would really not be worth the grief that has been caused. You know, sometimes we have to let things pass and not explore absolutely every avenue...

Back to the main point: I think anyone entering a relationship must accept the status quo, even if that includes an ex who is now a friend of the SO. I am not sure it requires one to accept ghosts of 20 years past re-appearing on the scene. I would hope and expect the SO to exercise discretion and not just accept invitations to re-open contact. You know, we men also get contacted by old flames; I would simply try to calculate if the net effect of the contact is poitive on me and those around me.

I would suggest that in this case, the net effect is negative.

[thetallguy]

TOV, we've sort of hi-jacked this thread...

[tiredofvampires]

I don't know if it is hi-jacked exactly, since the topics we are discussing directly pertain to the OP by way of example. I, for one, keep on bringing it back to the OP and his wife and their love triangle with John to keep my parallels with them up to par...I think if I were in his shoes, everything we are writing would be of value and relate to HIS situation. I see hijacking is more where people are taking it off to their own problems and issues, but all of mine DO relate -- how to make exceptions to hard-and-fast policies, how people should try to look at specifics about eachother's lives and needs, etc. I have not been asking anyone for answers on this thread to solve any of my personal quandries...

 

But if the OP minds, I will desist.

 

I also don't know if an OP disappears, and people are left to debate the issue, whether that is bad decorum, but last time he returned after a hiatus, it seems he felt the intervening discussion was salient.

 

slightlyjealousguy, you have the floor any time.

[tiredofvampires]

Back to the main point: I think anyone entering a relationship must accept the status quo, even if that includes an ex who is now a friend of the SO. I am not sure it requires one to accept ghosts of 20 years past re-appearing on the scene.

 

I see what you're saying, but also, materially, I am not sure there is any difference. Since an established friendship could always theoretically turn into a love relationship, and from the standpoint others are making here, a guy just can't stand to think his wife/gf is friends with a man who once upon a time saw her naked. Whether that was 20 years ago without contact, 20 years ago with contact, in the last 5 years without contact, or last 5 years with contact, that fact is not going to change. What it was will never be different, so I sort of wonder whether any of these scenarios would be acceptable to the OP. I sense from what he said, as well as his wife, that any ex, status quo or out of the past, is bad news and must be gotten rid of in his worldview.

 

I think he came to post here to get help in whatever way he could, not just to vent. To get advice about what to do with his troubling feelings. Perhaps it is harsh to say so, but sometimes the advice is, take a look at yourself and ask yourself if this is the way you want to be, because it's not so hot. For lack of better terminology.

 

And it would seem to me, as a moderate, that you would agree that him telling his wife their marriage is over for having coffee with a ghost of the past indicates a problem within him. It's so drastic I wonder how it can co-exist with love, personally! He says he just wants a "happy marriage". For whom? Just himself? Doesn't he have a responsibility to his own being to address that?

[thetallguy]

All good points TOV.

Hating the exes of one's SO is clearly a bit extreme, likewise, threatening to end a 9 year union over this would be madness, OP would hate himself in years to come.

I still think though that there are avenues best left closed and unexplored, and this was one such avenue (OP's wife's contact).

Several women seem to think the same way, going by some of the replies.

I don't generally believe in the rekindling thing, but take a tour on the Infidelity thread and you will see that such situations arrive with regularity.

[Iceman26]

All good points TOV.

Hating the exes of one's SO is clearly a bit extreme, likewise, threatening to end a 9 year union over this would be madness, OP would hate himself in years to come.

 

I would agree. Hate is a strong word, especially for someone I don't know who can't be blamed for being with a partner in the past.

[thetallguy]

Iceman, have you melted or something ?!

[slightyljealousguy]

yeah ok, 'hate' is a bit strong...

[thetallguy]

I know, you 'wish they didn't exist'...

But consider: what sort of past would you want your mate to have, ideally ? A tough one to answer, that.

[Iceman26]

Iceman, have you melted or something ?!

 

Who me? Never.