winter_light

oh. i do empathize with you, so much. i read your first post and i am so grateful that you wrote it. it is your story but it is much like mine. i recognize myself in it more than i thought possible when i started reading it, and i would guess that many others would recognize themselves in it as well. thank you for writing it down and posting it here. (i've only been on ena a few days but already it was helped me find exactly what you are looking for: a sense of connection, of being heard, of support, of honest feedback.) i see and have seen a therapist for a long time, different ones over the years. i have always paid out-of-pocket and i think it is worth the investment. i think of it as an investment in myself and my potential for happiness. you are most certainly worth being alive. i truly truly know what you are feeling though, the feeling of not being worth it. i've been sitting in that feeling all morning. it will pass. it always does, even if it takes days. hang on. write things down here. if you are working with a good therapist, hopefully you're working on finding new coping methods. i still go into denial and i still stay in unhealthy situations far too long. i struggle with shame and humiliation over bad choices i have made constantly. but these are the things that have helped me. maybe one of them will help you, too: - writing things down. a forum like this can be a lifeline. it has felt like that for me at moments when i don't know what else to do with my emotions. - meditation. there are free courses in meditation that you can take. meditating, though i often fail to do it when i most need it!, is one of the only things that has given me a true sense of okay-ness in years. - reading. try "When Things Fall Apart" by Pema Chodron. she's a buddhist nun. you don't have to be buddhist to get it. i'm not. it is incredibly helpful when there is no one nearby to lean on. - therapy. which you are already doing! - moving around, getting out into the world. just walking, even. do hold on and keep going even if it's only breath to breath or minute to minute. it will get better, and the hard parts will become easier to handle when they come up. and that all might take years but be patient with yourself. try to be kind to yourself. you are strong enough to be that honest with yourself; you are heading in a good direction.

thanks, blindreepr, for starting this thread. thanks to everyone who's posted. i realize no one's posted on it for a while but it is exactly where i need to be this morning. i'm currently struggling with this from both sides of the fence. i posted a thread in relationship conflicts about the situation i'm currently in and trying to get out of. it means a tremendous amount to read other what women have written about being abusive. i'm having a hard time dealing with how ashamed i feel and how alone. i don't feel i can share this with anyone in my life without being condemned. i know i've been emotionally abusive in this relationship (the one that is currently ending) as well as physically: shoving and grabbing my bf aggressively, shaking him sometimes when he would come home drunk and pass out on the couch. his drinking was some kind of huge trigger for me; i haven't felt this angry in years, not since i was a little helpless kid angry at my parents and directed all my anger at myself. ironically my relationship before this one had been tremendously abusive, though in that case the abuser was my bf at the time. i didn't even know what was going on until i started reading sites like drirene.com and books about abuse. only then did i muster enough strength to slowly get myself out of the relationship, which lasted for about 2 years. he was abusive in lots of ways, though i think his actions were motivated mostly by desperation and a lack of self-control (though near the end i began to wonder if he was sociopathic or maybe just off-balance somehow): he threatened me, called me names, accused me of cheating, attacked my friends, invaded my privacy (reading my diary and other personal things), threatened to kill himself if i left, blocked my way in and out of my apartment, monitored my phone calls, lied to me, said demeaning things about me to my face (and behind my back, i later found out), bullied me about sex, interrogated me at length about any male i spoke to... and the whole time i went along, sometimes even thinking i enjoyed the humiliation, probably in order to survive it. i lost a great deal of self-respect. i lost a lot of faith in my ability to trust people and to judge their characters correctly. when it ended i changed my phone # and stopped talking to most of my friends because i felt too ashamed. i was in therapy. i've been in therapy since that ended and still am. i met the bf i'm currently breaking up with several months after that all ended. it was probably too soon. i thought the new bf wanted to be there for me, but later he told me he resented me working through all that stuff. he found it too overwhelming. fair enough. i wish he had brought it up with me more clearly at the time. i have never been so angry at a person before as i am with this (currently-breaking-up-with) bf. he says he feels like i'm his punching bag for all my pent-up anger. he may be right. it's good that it's ending but the process is hell. i regret losing him in this way. the reasons for my anger are valid and many, but i should have left him the first time i felt unable to handle it. instead i've subjected him to so much screaming and yelling and rage that i know whatever kindness i once got from him (and grew to be dependent on), is gone. at one point in time i would have called him my true best friend. i feel like all we have in common now is dislike for one another. Scout, as for what you said about whether to resume a dialogue with your ex or not--you have probably long ago made a decision, but i just wanted to support you listening to your gut intuition. if apologizing to this guy will make you vulnerable to his cruelty further, it's not worth it. that's part of the knot i've got myself in with this bf and the one before: as soon as i feel guilty (justifiably) and apologize, each would jump on my apology as some sort of proof of how much i sucked. which sucked. though i probably do the same thing. take good care.

i've been on both sides of this issue, too. it's really hard when you care about someone not to want to help them out of a depression or an addiction. i'm going through my own struggle exiting a relationship with someone i still love but who is depressed and closed-off and an alcoholic and, well... it just ain't easy. i want to recommend a book, though. it's called "Darkness Visible" by William Styron. Styron was not only an excellent writer, he also struggled with both depression and alcoholism. as someone who has struggled with depression, i found it comforting and affirming. as someone who is in a relationship with a drinker, it provided some perspective for me. unfortunately, it won't solve the problem, but it might give some insight. good luck whatever you decide to do. as for that part, i guess the best advice is to go with your gut. it's probably best not to stay with someone whose depression starts to wear you down so that you feel like you've got an anchor around your neck. you don't want to start to resent him. also, if you haven't already, try attending an al-anon meeting. it's for family and friends of alcoholics, whether the alcoholic is currently drinking or not.

Hey, thanks for the "unreliable rude male perspective." I think I know this deep deep inside—that he deserves to be understood—and don't want to admit it, or can't without help (even just reading your post), because of how angry I've been. I'm not sure *why* I don't want to admit it, I suspect it has something to do with a fear that if I acknowledge his perspective has validity, I'll lose him. Or I'll lose control over the situation and have to acknowledge that it's out of my hands. Or I'll have to give up on it. Which I haven't wanted to do. Or maybe this is most accurate: I want to be able to accept him and be happy with who he is, accept him as-is; obviously this is not happening, and at first I saw it as there being something wrong with me: my sense of humor isn't good enough, I'm too insecure to deal with his bad social habits, I'm too "normal" in my habits. Then my feelings shifted, as my frustration grew: Maybe things he is doing are actually rude/inconsiderate/disrespectful and that is part of why I feel so upset. Maybe this is not just in my head. Which is probably when I should have ended it, because I've been angry and unable to hear his side of things since then. (A bit of an exaggeration, but mostly true. He does complain that I don't listen to him, that his words don't mean anything to me. Ok, but I feel like his actions speak louder anyway.) And of course that's not fair for either of us. That said, he's an adult, in theory anyway, and is able to raise issues and/or suggest breaking up with me whenever he likes. Partly I've been angry because in addition to his behavior, he refuses to acknowledge that there's validity to my emotions. He'll tell me it's my choice to feel the way I feel and that how I feel isn't based on anything real. Of course, he's right in one sense: the intensity of my feelings is coming from *me,* and may sometimes be an overreaction to a particular incident. Clearly these are hot buttons for me. It seemed to me that working on these issues together would bring us closer. Yet he doesn't want to be (or isn't capable of) working on them. Also, I have never before been this outwardly angry at anyone in my life. I suspect it's progress for me (before my anger was always self-directed), but nevertheless I'm surprised at how angry I've been with him. I don't like it, though I'm also relieved that I'm able to express something honestly instead of hiding it. And yes, I'm in therapy! Which helps. ANYWAY, I don't know if any of this is making sense, but let me give a little more perspective to the overall situation: his staying out until the wee hours of the morning is only the issue I was dealing with in the immediate, when I wrote the first post. The larger scenario is of course too complicated to write down completely (whose isn't) but part of the frustration/anger comes from his drinking (he's admitted he's an alcoholic, an admission that stunned me) ... like I said in the first post, the drinking has stopped, but there are still issues around it that are huge and that need to be talked about sometime... and part of it comes from his passivity in general. People have asked why he doesn't get a cellphone. He doesn't have a stable income; he makes a living, but he has no bank account, no credit, etc. Thus, no cellphone. Thus, no reliability. Also, he is not in school. When I met him he didn't seem of this world, which at the time was very comforting for me (though I also feel it's important to be able to negotiate the world rather than hide from it all the time). I know that probably sounds loopy and vague. When I met him, he was very nurturing and gentle with me (and still can be), and I had never met anyone remotely like that, anyone who clearly was just that way, and not putting on an act to get attention from a girl. He hadn't dated anyone in years. He made me dinner, cleaned my apartment, and generally looked after me in a way that was sweet and immensely kind. He taught me how to take care of plants, he taught me that gentleness is possible in a relationship. These qualities, among others, are part of why I love him and turned a blind eye to the practical realities I didn't want to deal with. Also, I have no problem with people having unorthodox ways of being in the world; in fact, I appreciate it. But I'll admit that I would like to be included in his world. I liked being in it, and I was hoping it would open up further to me, rather than him keeping me at arm's length from it. You can probably see this coming: part of the problem now is that I bear way too many of the regular day-to-day responsibilities of living... I've located every place we've lived in together, he borrows my car, my computer, my clothes, he rides the extra bike I own because he won't/doesn't have the money to fix his own bike… I voice my annoyance with these things but that doesn't result in change. It's as if he just doesn't hear me say, "Hey, you can't keep riding my bike." He continues anyway, relying on my good nature and telling me (if I object) that I seem to care more about things than about getting along. Which of course isn't the real issue. The real issue is that sharing is fine, but it's gotta be a give and take. And instead it feels like a give give give on my part. (My bad for taking on all those responsibilities, I know that, it's typical "codependent" behavior and one of my many need-to-work-on issues.) I think he is capable of getting his act together; it seems like something went awry in his life and he sort of fell apart and hasn't ever really healed. I guess part of why I've stayed is an unhealthy sort of egotism on my part: I want to believe I can make him happier, can help him heal, can be supportive, and I'm just beginning to realize that instead of support I'm really just enabling bad habits. Part of what makes me insane is that to me it seems like he's painted himself into a dependent corner, wherein he can be nothing *but* a victim; he refuses to help himself, to get a stable source of income or take care of his health. This strikes me as selfish and not good for anyone, including himself. I resent the dependency on me (coupled by the inability to be considerate of my emotions) and thus, voila, my anger. But yes, I do believe he cares about me despite all of this. And yes, I do have strong feelings for him despite everything (which is it's own issue: why am I attracted to this? I'm beginning to think I only believe someone will stay with me if they need me) and also, yes, I am trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear as you said, and so I should go. And yet it is so hard! Clearly, though, I have better things to do. Like the healing Miss M talked about, and moving on to other parts of my life. Thank you for reading all these words and for the perspective and thoughtful replies. They are much appreciated.

(i hope i'm posting the quotes correctly!) while i understand this point of view (in fact, it's one of the reasons i'm miserable; i don't like feeling like a nagging gf/warden at all, but at the same time, i don't think it's right or fair to deny the feelings that come up for me when my bf doesn't communicate with me about what's going on with him, esp as we live together, etc, esp when my feelings are so strong), i think it's important to understand that when i said i hoped he would change, i didn't mean that i wanted him to change who he was; rather, i think it's reasonable to expect that he'd be willing to work on acknowledging and changing certain aspects of his behavior (like not introducing me to a friend of his and leaving me standing there, awkwardly trying to figure out whether to just introduce myself) if he cared enough about making the relationship work. (and likewise, that i'd be willing to talk about and work on things about my behavior that might come accross as rude or inconsiderate or disrespectful: i don't believe it's healthy to tolerate bad behavior under the guise of "just accept me for who i am.") what's funny is that he himself has said what you said, CarnelianButterfly, in his own words of course. in fact, it's his argument whenever i bring up an issue like this; and it feels to me like he uses it as a "get out of jail free" pass. i bring up how i've felt as a result of something he's done (or not done, like not calling), and he says he's entitled to be who he is and if i can't accept that, that's my problem. which seems to me like a total cop-out! i don't think my requests are unreasonable or irrational. (are they?) i know what they spring from at their root and it's a desire to be closer to him, to know him better, and to be better friends and better partners. i suggested we see a counselor about a year ago, and he didn't exactly refuse, he just never did anything about it one way or the other, said he wanted to go and then, after i made appts for us twice, he cancelled on me both times. the whole situation is stupid, because i know what would make it better but i can't make the change happen unless i just up and leave (or toss his stuff out, which may be what i should be doing right now instead of typing this!). i suggested living apart months ago, but he's made no move to leave despite, apparently, having all kinds of problems with me (that only come up when i'm already angry at him and he's on the defensive). i'm on the lease and i would like to not have to leave my home. i think what's really getting to me is that it feels like no matter what i do, i'm always the bad guy. he accuses me of always directing things (being controlling), but then won't make any decisions or initiate plans. he says my anger makes him not want to tell me things, but won't take me up on my offer to go to counseling to try and learn tools for understanding and dealing with this anger, nor will he suggest other solutions. he tells me i just don't understand who he is, but then he refuses to share anything with me. kuhaaica, thanks for pointing this out. you are right. i've lowered my standards, but i've been waking up and wanting those standards to be met again, and that is why there is so much friction. i hope your own situation improves. i'm sure you deserve better as well. yes. i am with you. reading those words made me feel much less alone. thank you. writing this all down and reading your replies has helped me get through today.

hi i'm new here. thx for reading this. it's kind of long. i've been dating my boyfriend for the past 2 years; for most of that time we've lived together. i'm trying to live on my own now because i'm fed up with his behavior. issue at hand is this, and i'm just trying to get a sense of whether i'm being reasonable here or overreacting: bf tends to stay out super-late once, twice a week, sometimes 3x a week. depends. used to be that he'd be out drinking after work, he doesn't have a cellphone so would rarely call me to say he'd be back, would return between 1 and 4 am drunk, okay, obviously, this seriously sucked. sometimes he'd call, say "i'll be home in an hour", would come home 3 or 4 hours later. (once we made plans for dinner with friends of mine, he never showed up, left me there wondering what had happened to him. he didn't flake on me because of drinking, he just chickened out apparently and didn't call or show up.) why am i still here? well, i'm in the process of trying to separate our living situations and move on, i am going crazy living with him, but he isn't gone yet, and i have to get through this and am having a hard time. ok, so his drinking has stopped. (this is a huge improvement, obviously.) so now he's not out drinking til late; he's out working on projects with two friends of his. i don't know these friends, he's never made an effort to introduce me to one of them, and the other one i met briefly in passing. i've become deeply distrustful (he calls it jealous, and there is some jealousy in it, i am well aware of that) of his friendships, not because i feel like something sexual is going on; rather because i feel totally left out. i've gotten incredibly angry over this, and so i understand why he's sort of wary about introducing me to his friends — i've become really bent out of shape over meeting some of his other friends. let me try to explain that: he's been incredibly bad at introducing me to people. we would meet a friend of his on the street and he would fail to introduce me. i would feel increasingly horrible until finally it erupted into anger at him (not in front of the other person). i felt invisible and ignored. maybe this is just his horrible people skills, but i thought that if he cared about me he would make the effort to change. indeed, he started introducing me to people sometimes, after i brought it up several times, but it always felt forced and awkward, like i was making him do this thing he just didn't want to do. in the past, bf's have been excited about introducing me to their friends, even happy about it. i have tried to include him in things with my friends, but a lot of the time he's not interested, so i do a lot of things on my own. so. my point is, i have a lot of anger going on around these issues, and despite having expressed how i feel a million times over, the essense of what's going on doesn't seem to have changed. finally, the point: last night, he spends the night working with these 2 friends again (as he did the night before, and tells me he might be doing most nights of the week from now on). he writes me an e-mail while i'm at work (i work evening hours but arrive home by 9 pm or so) saying he'll probably return earlier than he did the night before (which was at 2 am). so i get home after work and seeing a friend around midnight, hopeful that he'll be home. he's not. i try to sleep, but grow increasingly upset and anxious, sad, disappointed, angry, etc. realizing he's not coming back. 3 am comes around and he comes back. i am incredibly angry with him (not enraged, just angry), and try to explain to him that at the heart of my anger is this deep-seated feeling that i can't count on him, that he doesn't put nearly half this much time into our relationship, that if he cared why didn't he call to say he'd be late? at least? (honestly, i wish i could be part of everything, i wish i felt in the least bit included, i wish i felt like he wanted me there, i wish he'd made some sort of effort to introduce me to these people he spends so much time with every week, but he just hasn't. and i've grown so bitter over it that i am not at all interested in meeting them anymore; i am envious, yes! i am also confused! and i feel stupid about the whole thing, for tolerating this behavior for so long, for always accepting it.) anyway i tell him all of this, and he gets angry at me for being angry and says there was no phone available to call me on and that he refuses to feel guilty for living his own life and wanting to keep working on his project as long as he liked. and how he can't have a relationship with someone who doesn't understand that and is jealous of his friends and can't understand the limitations of his situation (no phone, no way to contact me, so i just have to deal). and how he compromises all the time for me (how exactly, i don't know) and he says that he left his friends' place knowing i would be mad at him, and that i can't be happy for him doing what he wants to do. i tried to explain my point of view, but i am at a loss. i feel like i'm going crazy with frustration. i am angry at him, and i really really want to be living away from him, but also, i am incredibly sad. i've shown him my weaknesses: yes, i can be a stupidly jealous person. yes, i can be stupidly angry. but at the heart of it all is just that i have kept on wanting and hoping and trying to be part of his life, but he won't let me in while also not letting me go. (the part i haven't said is that when we get along, which used to be all the time, i am more comfortable with him than i have been with anyone in a very very long time, and i had more fun with him than i've had with most people in my life, and i loved that. i *want* to be closer to him. i had stupid hopes and daydreams about being with him for a long time, which i *don't* have about bfs usually.) i am angry enough to just throw his things in the street. this anger isn't new, but i've gotten better at dealing with it (like writing this down instead). maybe none of this matters. maybe it's just that i'm too controlling for him and he is too inconsiderate for me. i just wish i could feel something besides this absolutely helpless anger at him. has anyone out there been through anything like this before? how did you handle it? he is supposed to be moving out in a month, but every day is feeling like eternity, and even worse is the fact that we were getting along really well until last night; i keep thinking things have changed, that he understands why i get hurt and angry and upset, but then these things happen and obviously nothing is different and i go crazy again. am i just too needy? thank you.