Batya33

Of course - why bother if you’re not looking forward. My newly separated friend also has a second date via online tonight and she just ended things after 4 dates with another online guy. Living vicariously through her adventures too lol. She’s in her 40s and might be 20 years since she dated.

Also remember her ex can figure out how to confront you.

If I take what yogacat wrote it’s not avoidance to simply not want anything serious. And if you don’t it makes sense to have boundaries. It’s like how I am with certain coworkers. I know we’d be very close outside the office but I’m not looking for issues within the office so I avoid going deep on certain topics.

Remember what you wrote about expectations and crashing? You know almost nothing about him let alone sides of him. Maybe the side of his clothing since you noticed what he wore. You have no clue if he is true to himself or putting on a show. Or something in between. Maybe he’s experimenting too. Challenging his notions of whatever - how to presented himself. I’d go only cause it might be fun. Zero expectations

Congratulations on your baby! It is tragic. Not at all to justify but PPD and PPA and I believe there is something called post partum psychosis. Yes when you have a newborn these stories and tragedies certainly hit harder.

I think people are more quick to label others as workaholics these days. I think there's zero wrong with focusing on work outside of work if it makes the person feel good and if it's not an obsession/addiction -just like a parent who focuses on their kids and gets judged as a helicopter parent. I haven't had "just a job" since maybe 1991. Neither has my husband. I do have to check my tendency to get too work focused. And I do. I can see where I could become a workaholic if I didn't do so. I am very proud of my work, the contributions I make/try to make and equally proud of my husband's work. I think I care too much at times -but again I check that -I'm not stuck in it or obsessed. I haven't had a typical hours 9 to 5 job either since the early 90s. I chose that. For different reasons over the years. Neither does my husband. I do plan someday if I keep working at a certain age/stage to have a predictable hours job again -likely when my son goes to college. I think there is far more focus now on that elusive work life balance. When I started out in my intense and intensely competitive career in 1994 -my second career- it was expected you were on call 24/7 and there was no internet so you did this mostly at the office -early mornings/late nights, weekends. Not 24/7 at the office unless there was a big deadline. Then yes -we did what was needed. Were we workaholics -I mean who knows - back then though my point is that this level of focus in my industry was -normal. Now it would not be or there would be tremendous pushback from all I see. I don't work in that environment anymore but I also don't have a predictable job. As a SAHM for 7 years I worked in that sort of environment -it prepared me well! Was I a workaholic as a SAHM because of my focus, my 24/7 on call. thinking about my "work" with our son when he was sleeping? I don't think so. I do think that certain people have addictive personalities.

Have fun! I didn't mean to challenge you - since you wrote you're open minded to new ways of looking at things I suggested just that. There's nothing wrong with how things played out as far as you meeting someone for the first time, having a bad impression and then deciding despite that to give it another chance. Happens all the time. I get the impression you're seeing him again more for you and to show yourself some things than because you're that interested in him and don't want to pass up an opportunity. It's kind of like practicing new ways of dating and interacting with people -and since he of course knows you two barely know each other you're absolutely not leading him on or "using" him.

I didn't feel docile when I was "courted" or when a man holds the door for me especially if I'm carrying heavy packages. It's just -nice, mannerly, depending on the context. My teenager was scared to do something at a game place for his bday so his two male friends offered to do it with him. I thought that was wonderful. He did it! (Referring to Jibralta's example) - I wouldn't have assumed anyone thought you were "weak"

But isn't there a happy medium between those two extremes? I mean so open that you do an about face quickly.I think maybe you tend to switch it up to the other end very quickly -not necessarily a bad thing -just noticing.

I think it's because you're not looking for an LTR -or actively looking-so the questions come across as particularly intrusive and probing/out of bounds.

I agree things can change in relationships like in Frankie and Johnny. I don't think for me at least a first meet requires this level of introspection when the first meet was a resounding -nope, not attracted. Having said that no harm in going on a real first date especially given how much he would like to.

Who was the babe of your own? I'm sorry you're so sad and sorry for your loss!

When I dated my profile was specific -albeit a short list -as to what I was looking for. Marriage and a family and I had a specific short list of the musts of the other person and 3 "No" (no excessive drinking/no illegal drugs/no smoking) I'm not a fan of abstract questions generally. Especially from near strangers and if asked what I was looking for -that would have been -to me -redundant of what my profile said. Getting into the weeds is so individual -I didn't have a detailed framework of what a day to day marriage would look like or feel like - maybe some people do! I did welcome personal questions about - religious values, future plans like whether I was planning to move elsewhere, where my family lived and if we were close, whether I had thoughts on being a SAHM someday. Why I chose my career, what my career plans were in the future. I did not like any questions about my sexual preferences or sex-related -that to me was irrelevant at that stage except if the person had a fetish (and if so we likely should not meet), and way too personal/intrusive. Also when my last relationship ended was fine too, and sure how many serious relationships I'd had. Once we met and dated a couple of times I liked opening up like a multilayered package on both ends - I was never a fan of insta-relationship or thinking that a deep meaningful conversation substituted at all for getting to know a person over a long period of time.

I'm not a feminist -meaning I don't use that label and I want equality in wages/salaries for all people doing the same work which is also a feminist value. I'm not sure if I "need" a man because I think about what need vs. want is regularly. Hard line to draw. Example.My husband gets bad headaches. He also knows how badly I "need" enough sleep. I'm not a nice person when I'm sleep deprived (or hangry) -at least I don't feel like one and no I don't act like a witch just because I feel gross -it's just harder to regulate my crankiness). Anyway I've told him many many times -please wake me if you have a headache and cannot sleep. I will try to help you. I don't care at all if I am woken up I want to help you. So far he never has but I happened randomly to wake up middle of the night to find him struggling with a headache and he told me. I stayed up with him. I comforted him, got him another pillow -till he fell back asleep. I told my son yesterday in the morning because I want him to be a person who cares for others who need him. I didn't brag -I was matter of fact. And when my husband thanked me the next morning I said - oh of course I took care. He needed me. This is a good thing IMO that he let me take care of him briefly. I am strong, independent and a bad [behind word] as my son says - AND I love being a wife and mother in all the tradtional ways. I guess I do need my husband, my family, my marriage as opposed to just "want" - it is part of who I am, part of my identity, and they are not replaceable. I do need him to open my pickle jar, and is it so bad to love being complimented by my teenager? How many times do we as humans say out loud or to ourselves "wow I really needed that today." It's not a bad thing. All in moderation. Independence and a healthy marriage can coexist, no? Independence and wanting (sometimes feels much like a need or is a need!) to meet that special someone can too -yes?

Many years ago I met a man in person at a religious service I attended. He approached me- politely asked for my number. He called and we made a date over a week in advance -timing had to do with someone being out of town. In our 30s. Plan was dinner. Day of the date he calls me and asks me for suggestions of where to go which was off putting -back then my expectation was the person who asks makes the plan or at least gives choices. Our plan was to meet in a part of the city literally teeming with restaurants-huge range as far as price, ethnic food/american, you name it. No driving needed all within a couple blocks. He then said -how about we meet on the corner of (street/avenue) at 7 and just find a place. I said no. I said - I don't feel comfortable waiting on a street corner at night, please pick a restaurant. So he did. Over dinner he told me how he was part of one of those drum beating mens movements and mocked my not wanting to wait on a street corner. Like your first date mocked your concerns with his attire. We parted. A week later he called me -long voicemail. He apologized for how he behaved as far as meeting up -and - would I like to go to the opera with him that Saturday. He was good looking -as you know I met him in person the first time so I said yes because I did find him attractive. But I chose not give it a second chance. And I never regretted it. Overall I found his attitude, the poor planning, the way he spoke to me -too off putting to come back from this sort of first impression. It's really individual IMO and I am glad you are seeing your person again because you have decided that's right for you -as it should be! Have fun!

This is why I trained myself to limit pre first meet interactions and have zero expectations. I had a few exceptions -in one case we did communicate over a period of 6 weeks and I was soooo excited to meet him -and in person it was awesome. Until it wasn't! What I learned about him a few months later I'd never have been able to learn through typing and talking. I had the same experiences with blind dates and with meeting people in person briefly at a singles event, club,bar and then getting to know them one on one at a date. I also would feel disappointed- but for a very very short time -like when you are looking forward to perfect cheesecake and it's just -mediocre. The downside is of course I didn't do the highs and excitement pre meeting that some people seem to thrive on -I mean -it's fun -it's exciting - there was one guy who was so incredibly handsome in his photos and believe me in person didn't disappoint and I was swept away -such a charmer, such a catch - for the first couple of dates. Ironically we're still FB friends and stayed in touch after two failed dating attempts because I can compartmentalize my opinions of him as a date/potential partner and his other qualities -from a distance. Anyway I'm sorry you felt disappointed! Been there!

Leave her inner thoughts, values etc to her therapist or her people -who the heck knows. Focus on you on your boundaries. You cannot be a a true friend to her - or supportive of her relationship with her ex or whoever she chooses to date or try to date -when you are this attracted to her. Also you're giving her the benefit of being her comfy body pillow, her sounding board while she is sooooo "confused". Oh and a chauffer for her daughter -what a lovely package deal. Please treat yourself better than this.

I don't like how he spoke to you on the first meet -at least how you described it -I do like how he is bantering with you and --- cookies!!!!

I think I wrote unhoused about my first meet. I don't think RR did. And he did appear so -I was not judging -had I seen him on the street I would have not been surprised if he was unhoused. I was offended that he was so disheveled looking knowing where we were going - luckily it was a large mall like building (much fancier than a regular mall) with a bookstore that had a small cafe. He didn't smell of alcohol but he also seemed to be maybe on something.We sat for 30 minutes and then I said I had to go -I'm quite certain I paid for my own coffee or water as I wanted to make a quick exit.

If you can only try and not do it- that's a concerning path. I'd tell your therapist all of this and see what the therapist says.

I would call the town and perhaps consult with an attorney.

In my situation where the man showed up disheveled and sloppy -almost looking unhoused -one of the reasons I was particularly put off is he knew that the bar we were going to meet at for a drink was high end. I absolutely wasn't going to walk into the bar area with him dressed that way. I wasn't dressed fancy but absolutely fine for that sort of bar/restaurant. I probably came from work so -business casual. To me if you are an adult and you make plans to meet at X place you dress appropriately for X place. On the general topic - funny thing today related - I had my annual skin check. She checks my scalp. My hair was freshly washed. Which I did specifically because of the appointment. But I am long overdue for a cut/color and have an appointment in a few weeks. So jokingly I said to her "oh just ignore the gray roots". She didn't really get the lighthearted joke which is fine. (Her hair of course is perfect including color lol). But I realize -why would I feel at all self-conscious -with a dermatologist?? I'm totally clean and dressed appropriately in a paper gown open to the back LOL.

She is planning a bday party -in a few weeks -at her home - this is not a per person venue charge - for her son who is 2 years younger than mine. We met through her husband and our sons at a local museum several years ago. Then I met her because we got the boys together again a number of times. We became friends independently. Our sons haven't seen each other in 5 years because she and I faded for a few years -plus pandemic. We are back in touch for about a year now. She asked if I wanted to come to the bday party so I assumed she was including my son (and my husband). I said I wasn't sure if my son would come because he's uncomfortable at parties if he only knows the bday person (my son is 15). Very clear it had nothing to do with her son in particular. So she replied that actually she wasn't inviting my son - because her son wasn't sure he wanted to invite my son given how long it had been since they'd seen each other. But "I" was still invited to her kids party. (Also she lives about a 40 minute trip away since she moved in the past few years). She also didn't mention my husband being invited. (They've met briefly). I believe I'd told her husband likely was away on business that weekend but she made no mention of anyone else being invited except me. In my view you make it clear "oh that's too bad that he is away and can't come!" I think it is rude to ask me to come to her child's birthday party on a weekend without my son especially when my husband is away. I would never invite in the first place unless I was going to include the person's child who knows my child. (No I don't leave my son alone for many hours at a time). My husband and my close friend -our age-agreed that it was rude- my close friend lives out of state, doesn't know this family nor did I mention names, etc. I asked no one else but my sense is that there's a more loose way of inviting people maybe these days so you don't have to include the family in that situation and you don't have to include the child who used to hang out with your child if your child "isn't sure". Whole thing is odd but made me think of our generational difference. And the analogy to being more loose about planning dates, etc - Sorry if that was too long a response!

If you knew how things were between you two would never change, how long would you stay? Sounds like you've always been more into him than he has been into you. And that is still the case. He is not in your life in a serious way -not in the serious way you seem to want. Love is a strong word. Responding like that means he doesn't feel strongly about you. You're a placeholder. You want to be more than someone's placeholder. Did you start off casual because you settled for casual? Sounds like it. He was content to have a casual or sexual arrangement and then let you take the lead -never tried to make you his, never cared if you got snapped up by someone else. How old are you? Do you want marriage or a long term commitment? Maybe a child? Then stop wasting your time. He is not that guy. I'm sorry.

There's no stage - I'd not pressure myself about stages - it's individual. When your mind does that notice it -and just like you'd notice an annoying fly. And be ready with tools you come up with in advance. They might be distractions, they might be some sort of breathing method like Weil method 4-7-8 breathing. They might be looking at something outside in nature. Also what was "normal" and you are creating a new normal, right?