crushed soul

True...so true. We, along with tons of other people who never got closure, may never, ever know. I can't, for the life if me, figure out why someone who swore up and down that they loved you, could not at least give you closure. I would never, ever leave someone without giving them that closure. Some people have mentioned earlier that you need to find closure within yourself...and that when someone leaves, that, in itself is closure. I have thought long and hard about it, and decided I needed to do some research. What I found: When two people break up, or your partner abruptly leaves you, that is not closure. That is an 'ending', much like a 'cliff-hanger' in a tv show. The show definitely came to an end...but there's no "resolvement". And that is what closure is. It doesn't just end things, it is the tying up of loose ends..resolving things so you can move on in a more healthy way. Honestly, if anyone is interested, check it out in some books in your local bookstore ( I just did today) and even on the web there are many articles about it. They all universally say the same thing....that if at all possible, always give your partner a proper closure so they can move on and heal properly, because it's the proper thing to do. So, I have my answer now at least...that she should have given me closure... But you are right Recovering_Lover. For some reason, she will simply not do it, and would obviously rather me suffer through it and stitch up my own emotions. A blog.... I actually already wrote a huuuuge story about us, to help me sort it out.. I have been trying to figure out if i should share our story with others on the web, try and help others who have been through this kind of crap. Perhaps I will..

DN: Yes, I definitely know it's not just men. I never said that. But I do know that more men than people think go through this, but few talk about it... That is why I believe if I put our saga up, sans name of course, it might help other guys and girls a little... Not to her advantage...yes, to her, it might not seem like there's no advantage to it. I agree. But is there an advantage to hunting someone down just to returning their wallet to them? You don't do it because there's an advantage to doing so...you do it because it is morally the right thing to do. I strongly believe that is what separates good people from not-so-good.. the good ones will do the "right" thing, even if there's nothing in it for them. I guess that is all I want. Just for her to do the right thing instead of forcing me to heal awkwardly. There's no point to it other than selfishness. Hope75: Jeez.... a bowling ball? Thank god it didn't hit you... wow. What hit me wasn't quite as heavy...about half the weight. But it actually impacted me, and I ended up in the hospital with many stitches.. Thank you for the words of encouragement...you definitely went through alot yourself. Are you doing okay now, despite the scars? You seem to be the reverse of my situation. He almost did you in, but you left him and didn't give him closure. If you had actually smashed him, then left afterwards, that would be my situation. And for all intents, perhaps I should have done what you did. But I loved her too much...I could not just leave. So we tried to work it out, but her family intervened and screwed it all up. Does she feel guilty? Perhaps... but I think you hit the nail on the head with your second one. She *did* think what she did was aweful in the beginning...until her family stepped in and convinced her otherwise. So now I believe she does feel she owes me nothing, and that what she did was not as big a deal as it truly is. And that is what hurts so much. I didn't just forgave...I extended an olive branch and wanted to truly work things out so it didn't happen again. But, she just took off. And I can't, for the life of me, truly figure out why someone would abandon someone after hurting them like that. So yes, I cannot "force" her into giving me closure, but I am not trying to do that - I am simply trying to ascertain if I am at least correct..that someone who does something that terrible at least owes it to the person they did that to proper closure...

Hi all, I have a general question; my ex almost killed me by striking me with something during an argument...but I forgave her and we both agreed to work it out, do the therapy things etc. One month later, she took off to another city and completely abandoned me. I have been going through utter hell for almost a year now. I have moved on in many ways, but I have not yet emotionally. The reaon is this: I know that people break up, and that people even leave without a goodbye sometimes. If it were normal circumstances, I would be in pain, but would undertand it. However, after almost killing your partner, and then to have the partner forgive you, is closure truly too much to ask for? From everything I have read, and from speaking with therapists, it's been said that you can attempt to bring yourself closure, but real closure involves the other person you are breaking up with, and it allows you to heal in a much healthier manner. Leaves less emotional scars. Her whole family was vindictive and really, they have gotten away with emotional murder. I suspect that there are many men out there who have been through similar circumstances, but I know many men, much like me, tend to not have the same social network to talk about it. I have wrote out whole life story out, and have considered posting in on the web for the world to see. I am hoping that other people will read it and they might find comfort, or learn from it. And it may bring me some closure as well. I'd keep names out of it... So my two questions are: 1) Do you believe it is right to refuse to give someone you almost killed closure, which involves only a small meeting for hot chocolate, or even a therapy session? If you truly valued and loved someone, isn't that the least you can do for them? 2) I have searched everywhere on the web, and I have no really seen any posts on a whole relationship. Mostly shorter ones just touching on it. Would it be helpful to other men who have been screwed over like this to read it if I put it up online somewhere? Any thoughts?

Cassiana, you are completely correct for the most part. In fact, I have been thinking the very same thing now for the first time this year...and I'm in my thirties....took me that long to figure it out...

Scout and others: I am 32...so to answer your question; yes, thirty something guys do feel lonely

tiger_lilies: Well, not many guys posting...but I'm sure quite a few guys reading this Lonliness. One of my oldest friends. You know, I posted here a few months ago, went through a traumatic breakup. Absolutely the worst I ever went through. The advice I got from everyone here was wonderful (including Scout) and althought I don't often post, I do read. I have been surviving day to day...working on my business and re-connecting with myself. But I have been facing much lonliness. Have throughout my life. So how do you combat lonliness? I cannot speak for anyone else..but maybe I can help by talking about myself a little and lonliness... Some people feel lonely because of a chemical imbalance or depression. However, I think that an equal amount of people feel lonely simply because they find it hard to "plug" into society. They are highly sensitive people by nature..either born that way or became that way due to trauma. I'm one of those people. I am perfectly "normal" chemically (whatever that means), but I am extremely sensitive...and from what I have been told countless times, highly unique. This may seem like a strange analogy, but what the heck; you know the super hero, DareDevil? For those of you who are not familiar with his tale - his powers are basically superhero agility and strength, but his exceptional powers are that of being hyper-sensitive to sound, smells and touch. But he is blind. While out in public, he hears everything...from hearbeats, whispers...bombarded with scents. At night, the only way he can sleep is to submerse himself inside an isolation chamber filled with water, and plays a radio to drown out the other sounds. Although he is completely connected to everything around him...he is still very lonely. Why mention him? Because he is an example of someone who is very sensitive AND unique...which usually equates to lonliness. Being in a relationship can do much the same thing as DareDevils chamber does...it's encloses you in a protective environment...makes you feel secure. So when you break up...it's like being yanked out from that chamber. You know, sensitive/unique people tend to have alot of empathy towards others and the world around them. I know I do. I love animals (have done a ton to help them), I respect our planet and feel like crap about the things that people suffer through. Do you think for a second that people who have no empathy would even be on here? People who are not sensitive? They would not be. They would not be as affected by things..either through not caring, numbness or just ignorance and selfishness. So if you really feel lonely, you need look no further than these boards. They are proof that there are many, many people like yourself...people who are normal, but are very sensitive to things. And quite possibly lonely. I've noticed I sometimes feel very lonely even at the weirdest of times...I can be in front of thousands (was an entertainer), or be at a huge party, and still feel lonely. I can be alone sometimes with my doggie, and feel completely content. It's unpredictable when you will feel lonely... but I have found that the best thing for me is to focus on *why* I am feeling lonely. Try to understand the nature of it. I'm still trying to figure it out why my own company isn't enough. I like myself... so that's not it. So, I'm still figuring it out too...same journey as you all. And while I am doing that, I reach out to other people who actually give a crap about the world and others...and it helps. As far as the guy thing.... (guys will hate me for saying this) you are all primarily correct about guys. They are becoming more and more selfish in a multitude of ways. That is why I have trouble making friends with guys usually. I find all they care about is beer, sex, sports and cars. Oh...and power and money LOL.. Women tend to care about things I personally find more profound, such as friendships, children/animals, families. Things that really matter. No wonder many women feel lonely, even in relationships. Would any person feel lonely if their partner spent most of their time watching football, drinking themselves into a stupor...or always taking off with "da boys"? Hehe..I know I would. So...let it be known that there are a few guys left who understand your plight. I will say this; I am not femine. I am very "manly"...but I'd still rather go out with the girls shopping than watch sports. These are just my random thoughts...I hope something in there might help a bit, from a guys perspective.

What I said was hardly hogwash. But I know that others reading it will understand that without me having to explain why...

Well, having been through this recently and only getting a letter saying goodbye with vague reasons...I can honestly say that most people who do that are cowards and for the most part, the reasons they are leaving you are very weak ones and they are hiding something from you. They do not want you to know something. Of course, some people may want you to figure the reasons out on your own, but that is incredibly rare. Think about putting yourself in their shoes..let's say someone asks you a favour and you know you could do it, but you choose not to. You end up making an excuse why you can't do it. When they ask you point blank what the real reasons are you won't do it, you may find yourself being very vague and ambigous to hide the real facts...that you may not be helping them for purely selfish reasons. People are by and large, liars. I was told she needed to "find herself" and to "fix things" blah blah..but that she would always love me and wished me well in life. I know that her reasons are a load of crap..but she made sure to make herself scarce so I would never know the real truth because she knows I would ask her what the *REAL REASONS* are. And she is not prepared to give them obviously.. It's a sick game people do..they don't want to "burn their bridges"..but end up screwing your head because you never know the real truth..and you can never attain true closure without the truth. You'll always wonder..and I feel that is the epitome of cruelty to another. So, that's my two cents..

Thank you for the advice Scout... I've considered sending that kind of letter to her mother...but let me tell you this; her mother is absolutely a mean person. No exaggeration. She would simply rip it up... I am very sad to say... Perhaps letters to other members of her family?

Hmm..I guess no one has much to say about this...

Hi, Actualy, it's close to a month now that I haven't seen her...and even if I wanted to, her family won't let me. Remember...although I was mouthy, I was not smashing her. But her mother slandered me so the whole family thinks I'm Jack the Ripper... way out of hand. So as I'm healing, I'm just wondering if any woman would ever take back a man who was not only sorry, but was going all out to change this behaviour? So far, everyone seems to say, "run away...never look back!" like we are not worth anything...

Francis - Yes, I am aware I have a gratefulness problem. I think many people do... to be fair though..she definitely did as well because man, did I give her alot of myself. Scout - Yep, control...letting go of something I can't control is one of the hardest things I can do. It is a quality that allows me to succeed in areas that many others couldn't...but it also makes me lose the one I love. Crappy trade off if you ask me. I currently have no less than 8 books to read, and TWO councelling going on. One for anger management, the other for learning to deal with frustration and stuff. Although my main goal is to fix myself for me....anyone have any idea how to approach someone that has left you and cut you right off, to perhaps show them that at least some things have changed? Anyone?... What the heck did people do before the internet...shrinks must be losing business...

Yes..a ton of damage was done...both to her and believe it or not, her to me as well. I don't think I would get angry over her not coming back...I don't get angry with precipitation. I would be very, very sad though because I know I will love her for years and years and will always miss her. Actually, you'd be surprised...getting her back right at this moment is not what I want. I want to be able to at least talk to her at some point...some kind of open channel instead of being cut off. It's the "cutting me off" stuff that is killing me. I have a big mouth...but I am hardly dangerous. Her mother has a very warped view of the world and is a "man-hater", so she has alot to do with me being unable to talk with her. I would love to send a letter at some point..but her mom would intercept it and rip it up.... I do have to change..

Hi all.... I have written in another forum explaining my whole relationship (can be read at: link removed But I am going to copy and paste down below after I say what I am thinking right now... I believe I can be abusive verbally...but only to someone who has hurt me in the past. I do not lash out at strangers or the general public at all. I finally understand what triggers it. It is a mix of when I am extremely frusterated and hurt by someone I care about...that equals anger and then I become "mouthy". My father was condescending and both parents have bad tempers. I want to change this so badly...not just because I've lost the love of my life and want her back, but because I feel that if I can break the pattern while I am still young enough (early 30's), I may hopefully have a more peaceful life with less bitterness and hurt. I have definitely been walked on and lied to alot, and being a nice person, I have generally allowed myself to get hurt. Forgiveness, frutrations and letting go of past anger are all things I need to find a good method to conquer once and for all. Can anyone help me with ideas besides on how to do this besideds just reading books and therapy? I am doing both, by the way... And if I make a concentrated effort and hopefully succeed, is it really mandatory for my ex to "stay away" from me? Is there no possibility for me to be with her again and prove to her that I did change, albiet through lots of effort? Everything I've read here really labels people who had abusive tendencies as some kind of monster that doesn't deserve a partner... It actually hurts to read that and makes me feel there will never be hope.. Thank you.. I've pasted my long story below from another post. --------------------- Hello everyone, Everyone who has been posting seems to think the NC rule can be helpful. I also have noticed that most people who have lost their girl/guy were in a "normal" relationship, not an "emotionally" abusive one. I am in desperate need of help and advice to hopefully have my ex-girlfriend back in my life... I will start from the top. Incidentaly, I am in my thirties..not a teen. Two years and a bit ago, I met my girlfriend. Right from the start, she had lied to me about a few things and had hurt me very much. After meeting her mother and seeing how her mother influenced her behaviour (her mother lies constantly), I decided not to leave. I know that learned behaviours can be changed over time and I gave her another chance. I saw so many incredible qualities in her that were good, it was worth trying. Her mother slandered me and did not like me right from the start. She is a bitter, jaded woman towards men and she has a drinking problem. I felt I did not deserved to be slandered by her to others.. So, we stayed together regardless and kept trying to work things out..but we fought so much in the beginning because I just could not forgive the hurtful things she had done to me, so I kept bringing them up over and over again. Meanwhile she had kept lying here and there among other things that kept hurting.. a very bad cycle. In between the problems though, was an incredible connection and love. We had more in common than I could imagine and we had a very strong attraction to one another. We cherished each others' company and spent as much time as possible with one another. We were living together, and sharing a life together. Halfway through the relationship, I needed to move back to my hometown for a business reason. When I moved, she was thinking of moving with me, but hesitated. We fought so much at one point, she hung up on me and cut me completely off. We were over. Her family and friends all dislike me because they never had a change to know me because I felt that her mother's slanders about me would jade them against me. So, I avoided her family like the plague. I see why that was not wise now..but..I did that anyhow.. Her family and friends all ignored me and would not help me talk to her, or tell me where to find her. So I was completely cut off. I managed to find her on my own and she was so happy to see me. We re-started the relationship anew to give it another chance, and I promised her I would not keep bringing up the past and stuff. It was driving her crazy. She ended up moving with me. During the next 7 months, I kept doing the same dumb mistakes, and hurt her more. She hurt me as well for sure. But again, there were really wonderful times as well. In many ways, we definitely made more progress because I toned down my sharp tongue a bit, and she was doing many things to help on her end. She would read many self-help books and relationship books, take tons of notes, see coucellors...everything to held the relationship. Stupidly, I *did not* put in the same effort. So over time, she was losing more and more faith that I would ever keep my word, and that the relationship would be better. We hadn't fought for over a month not too long ago, but one month ago, we did, and she ended up becoming so hurt and frusterated, she threw things. One of the things hit me, and ambulance was involved. She was not allowed to stay at home with me because charges were automatically pressed (not by me, it was an accident). So, she stayed with a family member for a month. We communicated and decided that this was a very bad situation, but it did make us realize that we had hit rock bottom and things needed to be done. She begged me many times to go to councelling with her. I kept saying that I didn't need it. Finally, even though she kept trying to call me and sent wonderful emails to me telling me she missed me, loved me and couldn't wait to come home when the court order was lifted... her mother came to this city to "visit" her. Her mother worked her wonderful influence on her as usual, trying to tell her she should leave me. And her friends visited and most likely did the same. Encouraged her to leave without really knowing me. She cut me off completely again. And she sent a letter three days after telling me that she loved me and always will, but that she needed to leave me because she felt we were not compatible beceause of all the hurt and stuff and that she needed to find herself. She said she would never meet my expectations that I wanted in a woman. She wished me happiness and hoped I could find someone who could make me happier than she ever did. I have been so devastated. I am crazy with grief. Why am I so upset? Not just because I lost the love of my life and best friend. Because I was planning on marrying her within the next few months, and I *was* going to attend councelling. Several kinds actually. But I *did not tell her that* because I wanted her to think that I went on my own..not from her always asking me. I know that things mean more to people when you voluntarily do them and not because you were bugged into it. Big mistake on my part for not telling her because if she had known that I was going to really commit to her and the relationship by seeking help for us and working hard on the relationship as much as her, I do not believe she would have left. She would have remained in this city until the court order was dropped, and things might have been okay with more progress made. Her family and friends saw this as a prime opportunity to convince her that her and I were not worth the hurt and that it was an abusive relationship and that she should leave. So, she did because she has lost all hope that I will change, and that things would get better. Now it's been a week since she is gone, and I do not know what to do. I know she still loves me alot..in fact, probably much more than I realize. But I do know she is completely exhausted and fed up of the whole crap between her and I and needed to leave. I understand that. I can't get into all of the details of how she hurt me, but I will state how I hurt her. - I would question her intelligence. * I did not think she was dumb at all..but I was mean enough to say ridiculous things like that. - I would make her feel her body could be better. * Again, I thought her body was amazing..and I told her that as well. Alot of this was not meant to hurt her, it was just not well thought out comments. But even those can really hurt someone..I know that now. - I would not be as intimate anymore. * This is because of the sexual hurtful comments from the beginning that stuck in my head and I couldn't get over.. - Kept arguing for hours and hours and hours over the same things. - Name calling. - Telling her I could not be around her family because they were mean to me Just off the top of my head. There are more here and there..but those are the big ones. On the flip side, we have both made alot of sacrifices for one another, and showed love in many, many ways. She always felt I was special and that we both were meant to be together. That's what kept her going for so long..and me. All in all, I know now I was being emotionally abusive. I am not a naturally abusive person at all..it really all came from fear and hurt and not being equipped mentally to forgive. She screwed up in the beginning, and I let it become poison inside me and spewed it back at her time and time again. In hindsight, I can see how I hurt her and I am working very, very hard to try and learn to forgive so I am not an angry person anymore, and learn to not hurt others even if they hurt me. Questions: My question is this; is it still salvageable? She did not leave me because of lack of love..or for another man. She left because she lost hope that I would not change. I love her tremendously, and I am going to read every book she ever read, seek councelling and do what I can to better myself as a human so I don't keep making the same mistakes. And I know she wants to keep working on herself, even if she can't be with me. I'm admitting my faults, and *will* fix them. Is it possible that in a few months, after alot of therapy and hard work, that I can prove to her I have made very positive changes? Could someone who felt a relationship was abusive ever go back if she knew that the person finally learned how to forgive and fixed all the problems he had? I am afraid that the no contact rule might simply make her more resolved to move on without me indefinitely. Other people, such as some friends and family, have all said that even though there were some abusive elements to the relationship, those things were definitely things that could be changed and that women, even if exasperated and hurt with no hope, could come back to a man she loved if the man was consistent, gentle and really did work on himself as much as possible. Can this be true? And if so, how do I show her that I have changed if she isn't privy to talking with me? Just show up one day with flowers and ask her on a date again? Innocent date? I taken the doom and gloom approach.. I feel that even if I make myself to where I should be, that she would think "why should I risk being with a guy that I was so hurt by again?", even if she loved me tremendously. Again, family and friends have told me that if I worked hard on myself and tried to approach her in a few months, it might work, *even* though things were very toxic. They have stated that if she really did love me, the toxic emotional hurt will subside with time..that she will be happy to be away from the fighting, but still miss me alot and that she will find it very difficult to replace me because of her love for me and the qualites she knows I have. In fact, they have stated that some people go through much worse, such as cheating, theft, physical *and* emotional abuse..but still loved each other and got back together and worked it out. Is that true? If so..that's a ray of hope.. All in all, I have so very many doubts because I figure that over time, she will just keep healing herself and will keep getting over me more and more, until she will never feel the need to be with me again. I am very confused and somehow need to know that there is hope that her and I can reconcile. If people could please read this and add their thoughts on what my chances are, what I should do ect, I would appreciate this so much, for I am hurting very badly and need some guidance on how to rectify this tragedy.. I can expand on anything I have not made clear..