Two things I have noticed since posting here.

[cpc28655]

Since I started posting here, I have been paying more attention to the people that are around me (at work, out at bars, ect.). I have also payed close attention to alot of the threads on this site, and I have noticed 2 things that seem to contradict one another:

 

1. I have noticed a majority opinion (on this site) that women have a much easier time dating, flirting, ect. then men do.

 

2. I have also noticed (observing people around me) that women tend to take rejection much more personally then men do.

 

These 2 facts puzzle me. If it is much easier on women, then wouldn't rejection be less of a setback for women then men?

 

Perhaps I am missing something, or perhaps it is my nap time, lol.

[Batya33]

If you rejected me you bet I would take it personally! ;-)

 

I guess I'm the exception (as usual?) I always found it harder to "wait" for a man to ask me out and wished it was more effective for women to make the first move, and when I did get rejected by a man which happened both when I asked men out and when they rejected me by not calling for another date, etc. it really depended on the context as to whether I could brush it aside with "oh well, time to meet more people" or being devastated and needing ice cream-therapy.

 

I tend to see a lot of threads where women (and girls) agonize over "does he like me??" so I don't know that it seems like the women/girls have an easier time.

 

Interesting observation! Have a good nap.

[cpc28655]

Ice Cream Therapy?

[Batya33]

Ben and Jerry are the best men around to help soothe a broken heart . .. . (for those of you not in the U.S. it's a popular gourmet ice cream).

[Dako]

A great observation, as usual!

 

As a guy, I often wonder at how in in a postfeminist era, so many women accept a passive role of merely looking good and appearing poised.

I respect women who step up to the plate and make intelligent and witty conversation, risking the rejection men know so well.

I like women.

 

Hope the nap was refreshing.

[cpc28655]

Ben and Jerry are the best men around to help soothe a broken heart . .. . (for those of you not in the U.S. it's a popular gourmet ice cream).

 

Ok, I get it now, ice cream therepy. lol You mean sitting in front of a tv with a carton of ice cream and a very large spoon.

[NaNOx9]

As a guy, I often wonder at how in in a postfeminist era, so many women accept a passive role of merely looking good and appearing poised.

 

Cause it's easy, there's no risk involved, and if the girl is attractive there will be plenty of guys throwing themselves at her. The last girl I was seeing said she never had to worry about meeting anyone, and she never had to make any moves (the latter was a turn-off for me, I like a little aggression).

[Shajenko]

As a guy, I often wonder at how in in a postfeminist era, so many women accept a passive role of merely looking good and appearing poised.

 

In the words of Homer Simpson:

 

"It's easier, duh!"

[Dako]

I 've read so many posts by women who complain about the kind of guys they attract. If she were less passive, she'd have a wider and more diverse range of guys to meet. I don't suggest aggression, just a bit less fatalism.

 

There's no shame in waving at a guy or saying hello.

My mom once whistled at a guy, and it resulted in me.

[Batya33]

I'll refrain from inquiring whether whistling constitutes safe s_x.

 

I agree that there is a wide range of activities women can do short of asking a man out that are active and proactive as opposed to passive. However, I was told on a date two years ago to just "sit there and look pretty."

[Cassie]

Batya, I was told to "just sit and look pretty" before on a date too. At the time, it was pretty crushing.

 

Although I've never asked a man out directly, I'll still engage him in subtle ways, such as friendly convo.

 

I was even brave enough to naively whistle at a man once many years ago during a co-ed gym class. I was a freshman at the time and he was a senior. I didn't know it but his girlfriend, also a senior, was standing near me.

 

I had dodgeballs whipped at my face for the remainder of the semester. Needless to say, she didn't take it too well. :splat:

[Spugly Fuglet]

Ben and Jerry . .. . (for those of you not in the U.S. it's a popular gourmet ice cream).

 

Now owned by Unilever the ganit food conglomerate, and as for Ben and Jerry they walked off into the sun set hand in hand and very very rich.

 

and no more Elvis days for the workers.

 

sorry off topic so,

 

No and yes to your statements.

 

there back on again,

 

men can take it personal but most just see it as a loss, not a statement of dislike.

[NaNOx9]

Batya, I was told to "just sit and look pretty" before on a date too. At the time, it was pretty crushing.

 

That honestly blows me away.

[weePi]

A great observation, as usual!

 

As a guy, I often wonder at how in in a postfeminist era, so many women accept a passive role of merely looking good and appearing poised.

 

I respect women who step up to the plate and make intelligent and witty conversation, risking the rejection men know so well.

I like women.

 

Hope the nap was refreshing.

 

Ah... Dako, I prefer being passive because that would rule out the ones that are shy. Tbh, I am pretty tired of being with shy guys, I was with one for few years. I think both genders should do chasing, just depends what the individual is after. I do wonder those who put so much effort into looking good to attract the opposite sex (as oppose to just doing it for themselves), then why not take the last step to start a conversation??

 

I too looking for guys that can make the first move and come up with that intelligent and witty comment, risking the rejection. If I were to do that instead of 'him', then the chances of me meeting the sort of guys I like is low. I like men too, those that are confident and know what he wants.

 

Just last nite, two incidents:

1) I was taking a break from dancing, standing still. A guy tapped on my shoulder and asked me to come closer to him, to start a conversation. Needless to say, that conversation didn't last for long.

2) As we were leaving, a guy that had been watching us most of the night (I noticed from the corner of my eyes! ) came up to me asked us to stay. He was a nice looking kinda guy. But too late, if only he came to us earlier not just because we were leaving. Although, I should have stayed for 2 minutes longer for a brief conversation, I didn't, mistake on my part. He might have made a mistake to not have taken the step sooner, so have I - to not stay a little bit longer. It was a second decision, what can we do apart from learning from our experience?!?

 

I know the second incident, I was too 'strick' on my mind about the guy's late decision. I should have given us the chance. Oh well, oh well... I am in the learning process..........

 

Sorry, I think I started to rant over a lost opportunity!! lol

[weePi]

Now owned by Unilever the ganit food conglomerate, and as for Ben and Jerry they walked off into the sun set hand in hand and very very rich.

For those who are interested, Tuesday 17th April is B&J's free cone days in the UK... check out their site!

[Dako]

2) As we were leaving, a guy that had been watching us most of the night (I noticed from the corner of my eyes! ) came up to me asked us to stay. He was a nice looking kinda guy. But too late, if only he came to us earlier not just because we were leaving. Although, I should have stayed for 2 minutes longer for a brief conversation, I didn't, mistake on my part. He might have made a mistake to not have taken the step sooner, so have I - to not stay a little bit longer. It was a second decision, what can we do apart from learning from our experience?!?

 

He obviously wasn't shy, and if you'd done more that just watch him from the corner of your eye....

[Cassie]

weePi - did you smile at him or do anything to subtlly encourage him to approach sooner, or at least to indicate interest on your part?

 

I've rarely had a guy boldly just push through a crowd (unless he was being extremely obnoxious or a drunk). They usually need small gestures of encouragement, especially if they're feeling nervous.

 

I also tend to attract quieter personalities since I'm more reserved. I've seen plenty of girls, however, just go up to strange guys and dump themselves on their laps (something I would never do).

[itsallgrand]

"Sit there and look pretty" Ok, my nostrils are flaring even reading that!

 

Maybe some men were seriously affected by being denied Barbie dolls as kids, or something. I just don't understand that mentality.

 

I think your observations are keen. Why that is generally so, I only have my theories, and they seem to change a lot. I do think part of it is the whole girls-trained-to-be-passive thing. (This is so easy when you are young, but with some age and experience, it's easy to see why it is not the best option!).

 

The more you put yourself out there, the less personal you take it, I think.

A matter of practice.

Guys usually begin with believing they must be actively out there scanning and working for attention - so they have a heads-up in how not to take it personal.

 

It can be VERY personal if you truly believe your only option is to sit and wait to be chosen. You get whatever comes to you, no control or power there.

 

Not just for women - but for anyone who feels they must be in the passive, 'selected' grouping.

[CaptainPlanet]

I've pondered this question myself I came to the conclusion that things are equaly easy for an attractive man as they are for a woman all other things held equal. Introduce a few more things like social skills and status for example, then it is obviously vastly easier for a female. Yes they just have to sit and look pretty, but that will not always be enough.

 

I'd like it if girls were less passive it would make it easier for me but I cannot honestly say they are that passive if they like you lots they wil come after you. However theres been many situations where its been me or a friend talking first a lot seem to expect it but a lot don't. So i guess it generally sucks to be a man in this case because you don't get the variety of people who you know like you coming up to you to chat/dance or w/o.

[weePi]

He obviously wasn't shy, and if you'd done more that just watch him from the corner of your eye....

I know, I know.. Sigh... That's why he is what I've been thinking about whole day today!! ](*,)

 

I hate the feelings....

[weePi]

weePi - did you smile at him or do anything to subtlly encourage him to approach sooner, or at least to indicate interest on your part?

 

I've rarely had a guy boldly just push through a crowd (unless he was being extremely obnoxious or a drunk). They usually need small gestures of encouragement, especially if they're feeling nervous.

 

I also tend to attract quieter personalities since I'm more reserved. I've seen plenty of girls, however, just go up to strange guys and dump themselves on their laps (something I would never do).

I see what you mean Cassie. Thanks, perhaps I will do so next time.

 

I know when I complain to people that the guys in my area are 'shy'. I am actually part to blame. I do know that most of the time, I didnt even pay any attention to guys when I am out with friends. I did make that mistake most fo the night last night. I was too into the music and was dancing as if no one was around me. That's something I learnt.

 

As I said before, I am in a learning process-not really been single long enough to know how to be pulled/to pull a guy! Last night's experience definitely worthy. I guess, I was partially scared and nervous as I've never been in the situation before - being available to be pulled in a club!

 

Cassie, next time when I go out, I will definitely be more aware of my surroundings, and look at the guys and smile at the. Nod and smile!!??

[ghost69]

women have what guys want. the kitty. when a woman is rejected by a man, they take it to heart that something is wrong. most get nuts or depressed wanting to know why.

[rosie76]

Makes sense to me in an evolutionary psychology sense. Evolutionary fitness for women has to do with attracting the most suitable mate to see us through pregnancy and child-rearing while that for males involves competing most successfully with other males for food, territory, and females. I'm not saying we're still apes living in a black and white world, but a lot of the ways our brains have developed still relates to very basic reproductive needs - leading to, on average, more competitive males and more empathic females, etc.

 

In this simplified scheme it makes sense that women both traditionally get persued more often and take romantic rejection harder. On the average we put a lot of focus on aptitute in relationships in deciding if we're 'alright'. Men, on average, are more likely to also gain satisfaction from competitive things - jobs, sport - and to be primed to deal with the highs and lows of competition in a less emotional way.

[cpc28655]

Cause it's easy, there's no risk involved, and if the girl is attractive there will be plenty of guys throwing themselves at her. The last girl I was seeing said she never had to worry about meeting anyone, and she never had to make any moves (the latter was a turn-off for me, I like a little aggression).

 

Exactly my point. If it is so easy, why do they take rejection so personally. shouldn't be a big deal.

[cpc28655]

women have what guys want. the kitty. when a woman is rejected by a man, they take it to heart that something is wrong. most get nuts or depressed wanting to know why.

 

Makes sense to me in an evolutionary psychology sense. Evolutionary fitness for women has to do with attracting the most suitable mate to see us through pregnancy and child-rearing while that for males involves competing most successfully with other males for food, territory, and females. I'm not saying we're still apes living in a black and white world, but a lot of the ways our brains have developed still relates to very basic reproductive needs - leading to, on average, more competitive males and more empathic females, etc.

 

In this simplified scheme it makes sense that women both traditionally get persued more often and take romantic rejection harder. On the average we put a lot of focus on aptitute in relationships in deciding if we're 'alright'. Men, on average, are more likely to also gain satisfaction from competitive things - jobs, sport - and to be primed to deal with the highs and lows of competition in a less emotional way.

 

Finally, these two seem to understand the spirit of my question. Although I disagree with both of these answers, they seem to best understand exactly what I am asking.

 

I believe it is simply a double standardthat we have just learned to accept. No evolution, no kitty, whatever the case may be. Keep in mind, I am no expert. Only a man with an opinion. I believe both of these answers are very well though out. I just disagree.

 

Forgive me for taking so long to answer, I have been on vacation since Sunday. My parents drive all over the country every year around this time to celebrate their wedding annv. This year they invited me along to celebrate my divorce. Ironic, isnt it? But, at least I got to see Hell, MI. I always wanted to see that little town. Too funny.