Men V Women : Cheating & Promiscuity

[isidore]

Dont get me wrong, I dont think anyone ever cheats and then says to themselves "I do it because XYZ has happened to me, or I am an XYZ type of person", ie looks to make excuses for it but I guess I'm just looking from a psychiatrist's viewpoint! If someone cannot be faithfull in a perfectly good relationship then surely something is wrong somewhere?

 

Whether the relationship is "perfectly good" is completely subjective and varies per individual. I might think, "This is going great, she would never cheat." She might just as easily think, "This is awful. My needs aren't being met." A psychiatrist might provide insight as to why you choose to behave in a certain way, but it still all boils down to a choice. But, like I said, making logical choices that others will perceive as "normal" can be very hard when you're suffering from a psychological disorder. Yet we should still look at this on a case by case basis. Generalizations simply aren't productive of any kind of true understanding.

[gixer]

gixer, it kinda feels to me like you are looking for an answer for a more specific question, either that or your looking for validation for something. you cant use a very general discussion like this to pinpoint anything about anyone. that's not how humans work.

 

Ok, one of the primary reasons I posed the question is because I have a friend who has embarked on a relationship with a girl. Now this friend is a serial cheat who also believes that women are not much better. The girl who he has been seeing was someone he knew of long before they got together. In the past they have had conversations where the girl admitted she had cheated on a previous boyfriend. Now since my friend is a serious philanderer he now refuses to trust this girl and consequently keeps drilling it into her head that she is "just like him". Consequently instead of having a proper relationship they have something more approaching a f-buddy one.

 

Now this would be fine and dandy if both parties were happy with the arrangement but the truth is the girl is actually very smitten and would like the relationship to be proper. She is also adamant that, providing she could trust my friend, she would not cheat but he wont have any of it. He says she is a natural cheat and will always be that way.

 

I'm on her side and believe she would be faithfull to him but he wont entertain it!

[Boughs]

through my experiences... girls do something worse than cheating... its called manipulation and backstabbing.

[gixer]

Whether the relationship is "perfectly good" is completely subjective and varies per individual. I might think, "This is going great, she would never cheat." She might just as easily think, "This is awful. My needs aren't being met." A psychiatrist might provide insight as to why you choose to behave in a certain way, but it still all boils down to a choice. But, like I said, making logical choices that others will perceive as "normal" can be very hard when you're suffering from a psychological disorder. Yet we should still look at this on a case by case basis. Generalizations simply aren't productive of any kind of true understanding.

 

Yeah I see what you are saying. I guess what is a perfect relationship for one person is a nightmare for the other. Its all down to taste and personal background I guess.

[sophie274]

Here's a website with a bunch of infidelity statistics compiled by different sources. The numbers vary quite a bit, but it seems to be a constant that men have cheated more than women. Is it biased? Maybe. But it seems quite plausible to me, since a big part of cheating is opportunity, and men tend to have more opportunities through work and business travel (though this is changing as more women enter the work place and have high-level jobs).

 

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[isidore]

Here's a website with a bunch of infidelity statistics compiled by different sources. The numbers vary quite a bit, but it seems to be a constant that men have cheated more than women. Is it biased? Maybe. But it seems quite plausible to me, since a big part of cheating is opportunity, and men tend to have more opportunities through work and business travel (though this is changing as more women enter the work place and have high-level jobs).

 

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Relying on website statistics for our perceptions is pretty darn dangerous. There are websites out there that can "prove" anything. I really do find it amusing that people actually think one gender is more prone to something than the other. I recall that Aristotle thought women had smaller brains than men and possessed less intelligence. I think I read that on the web somewhere, but it's balderdash, not truth. Oh well, people have their minds made up and generalization will prevail again I suppose. Shame.

[sophie274]

I agree with you that that website is not the Gospel, but it does compile a lot of statistics that indicate the same trend. I would also add that relying on large sample sizes is probably more reliable than relying on each individual's experience or "perception".

 

Also, you'll notice that my explanation for the difference has nothing to do with innate differences, but with the different opportunities available to both men and women. Not brain size or morals.

 

Finally, I disagree with you that there are no differences at all between men and women, but that's mostly off-topic anyway.

(For example, men's IQs are more spread out than women's - women's tend to be more centered around the mean. Men have a higher risk of heart attack than pre-menopausal women ...)

 

Anyway, I was just putting it out there as some info (to be taken with a grain of salt) - that's all.

[isidore]

I'm not saying men and women don't differ; what I'm saying is that promiscuity and cheating are choices that people should take responsibility for rather than shifting the blame to something "wired in." I have known of just as many women as men who have cheated and slept around. This may not gell with that website's "statistical proof" but it is reality, at least as I've experienced. The Aristotle blurb was just to illustrate how incorrect information can be posited as "fact." Statistics are inherently flawed. Flawed in so many ways that one measly post could only scratch the surface. But here goes: Reporting errors, data entry errors, under reporting, sampling bias, the way the question was phrased, etc. etc. etc.

[sophie274]

I know very well that statistics aren't perfect. However, a careful study can come very very close to reality - I'm not saying the website I posted was one of them.

 

Still, I think you're ignoring my point that this isn't about the innate dispositions of men and women, it's about the possible differences in their environment, i.e. the availability of opportunities, mostly having to do with the workplace, travel, etc ...

[anggrace]

Well, we all know that men and women are different in many ways, right? So I think it is possible that either men or women might cheat more often. Of coarse its not an excuse and not so black and white, but its a legit question.

 

For the last 9yrs Ive traveled alot for work, often w/a large group of people. In those groups Ive noticed the men cheat more often. But thats just my experience. I hate seeing it no matter who's doing it. Especisially if I know their SO's.

[isidore]

I was simply stating my opinion. I was not ignoring you.

 

But I'll try to address the opportunity theory. Again, I think that this would be a case by case basis. Generalizing is counterproductive because it ignores individual incidents. ANY employed person, no matter their sex, I think would be presented with opportunities to cheat. By the same reasoning, ANY person in any social interaction could find a way to cheat if they chose to. I don't believe that men cheat more and I don't believe that the proof is that they have more chances to. Women have just as many opportunities to cheat as men (work or otherwise).

[astaro]

people create the opportunities they have in life, they dont just blind side you on a sunday morning.

[sophie274]

Women have just as many opportunities to cheat as men (work or otherwise).

 

Except for the fact that fewer women are in the workforce, so as a group (not as an individual) they could have more opportunities to cheat? Particularly for certain jobs that require traveling - truck drivers, executives, pilots - that would me more male dominated.

 

(By the way, sorry about the phrasing of "ignoring" - I was just hoping you'd address the explanation behind the stats.)

[sophie274]

people create the opportunities they have in life, they dont just blind side you on a sunday morning.

 

I agree with you. But the more people you are in contact with in a situation which could lead to flirtation, etc ..., the more likely you are to meet one that you would have a "connection" to. And since cheating seems to me to be all about resisting temptation (since most people will at some time or other be tempted and have to choose how they will respond), it makes sense to be that the more you are tempted, the more the chances that you will give in to temptation increase.

 

Regardless of sex, so many people say "I would NEVER cheat", and so many end up cheating! (From the figures out there, between 1/3 and 3/4 of people cheat on someone during some relationship - sort of a big range, but neither one of those fractions is small.)

[isidore]

I guess I'm missing the point here. People seem to really want to believe that men cheat more than women. I respect anyone's right to believe anything they want. I just happen to not agree with that belief. Whoever wants the last word can have it. I was only stating my opinions, and I'm not on a mission to prove a preconception. I simply truly think that by myopically looking at the whole blurry picture we miss the actual details of individual people and cases.

 

Sophie, there are more women than men so by your logic women have more opportunities to cheat by simple virtue of their numbers. The fact that there are fewer men overall wouldn't hamper the fact that with females making up the slight majority of the population they would possess as a group more overall chances to cheat. I'm using your logic but I thinks it's flawed (and I say that respectfully).

[caro33]

Sophie, I am with you 100%. I think you make excellent points.

 

Isidore, generalisations can cause harm and be misused. Statistics can be misreported or based on erroneous assumptions, etc etc. That's all accepted. But the fact is that there are trends, there are patterns. Most of what we have access to in life re medicine, fashion, politics etc is based on "most of the people most of the time", or a significant nbr of people reacting a certain way.

 

I can't honestly see the point in ignoring or refuting any statement ever made based on some sense of "the norm", or "in general" just because there are exceptions. Men and women ARE different in some basic ways, as sophie and others have stated. We have different hormonal drives, different life and work opportunities. We have different histories and there are different cultural expectations. It is not unreasonable to think that these things might just have a tiny effect on our expression of sexuality and our chances to express that sexuality, even if the effect is not-biologically based.

[isidore]

Caro33, I disagree with your opinion. That is what it is, an opinion, just as mine is. You will believe what you want to, and that is fine. I would, however, caution anyone to not let these sorts of gross generalizations color their perceptions and interactions with actual people. But unfortunately they will and do. I simply believe that by harping on "men do this more than women" we all lose sight of the fact that people should be looked at individually. I promised myself I wouldn't post again! Darn it.

[caro33]

You disagree that there are differences between the experiences and opportunities for men and women? That's all I'm saying.

 

One example: I am pregnant and have to leave the workforce in a few months to have the baby. I will then be at home for a little while at least to look after it, and working full time after that will be an issue. That affects my career and my opportunities to spend time with the opposite sex, relative to my husband. When the day comes that my husband can be the one to get fat, feel sick all the time, have the baby and be at home, I will change my mind that women and men might just have some differences.

[isidore]

Caro, frankly I'm exhausted. As I stated, you may believe what you want to; I don't have an issue with that. I simply disagree with you and Sophie. I'm not trying to change your mind; that's not my job or desire. I was simply trying to suggest that people look at things more critically.

[astaro]

I agree with you. But the more people you are in contact with in a situation which could lead to flirtation, etc ..., the more likely you are to meet one that you would have a "connection" to. And since cheating seems to me to be all about resisting temptation (since most people will at some time or other be tempted and have to choose how they will respond), it makes sense to be that the more you are tempted, the more the chances that you will give in to temptation increase.

 

i could say the complete opposite and it would be just as correct as what you said. the more someone is prone to cheating the more said person will "end up" in situations that are "just hard to say no to"

 

i do not believe there is such a thing as "cheating due to circumstances". people cheat because they want to cheat, if someone didn't want to do it they wouldn't, and no amount of temptation could affect that.

[isidore]

I agree with you astaro; temptation isn't cumulative. It's a choice.

[jimthzz]

I believe that if there is a difference in the rate of men and women cheating that it can be accounted for by the time a woman takes being pregnant and raising children.

 

I also believe while a lot of guys use the excuse that they can't help it, a lot of women are just excellent liars.

 

Put a lying women up against a lying man and the lying woman will win the game of bluff every time.

[Batya33]

I believe that if there is a difference in the rate of men and women cheating that it can be accounted for by the time a woman takes being pregnant and raising children.

 

I also believe while a lot of guys use the excuse that they can't help it, a lot of women are just excellent liars.

 

Put a lying women up against a lying man and the lying woman will win the game of bluff every time.

 

How do you account for infertile women and women who choose not to have children?

[caro33]

Put a lying women up against a lying man and the lying woman will win the game of bluff every time.

 

Why do you say this?

[jimthzz]

How do you account for infertile women and women who choose not to have children?

 

I can't do an indepth statistical analysis for goshsakes.

 

It just has been my experience that women are better at hiding the truth than men are. I didn't suggest that all women are lying cheats, just like I don't consider all men to be impulise-control lacking cheats.

 

But I do think it is counter-intuitive to believe that men are much greater cheats than women are so there has to be a reason why there is not one bowlegged woman per town.

 

It's because women are cheating at the same rates (give or take) as men are.