Engagement Blues, General Confusion, Bleak Future & Bad In-Laws

[caro33]

Update: We spent a couple days over Christmas with his parents and they've totally started to streamroller our wedding plans. I had plenty opportunities to stand up for myself but my fiancee would have killed me for upsetting the peace. So I still feel like I want to let it all out and tell them how I feel.

 

This situation will not be resolved unless you choose to suck it up and roll with it. If you're anything like I was in this situation, that just ain't gonna happen.

 

Perhaps you can elope, but I do think that raises problems of its own, not the least that it sounds like your fiance won't have a bar of it. Have you raised it though? At least you put some distance between you and the in-laws and when you get back it's too late for their BS. But that doesn't mean they won't find a way to punish you for the rest of your life...

 

What I wanna know is how I can overcome the bitter resented feelings I have towards my future in laws, as a result of their actions? I'm a forgiving person but I sense that they don't give a damn and the world is all about what THEY want.

 

You are probably right, they have made it clear that that's exactly where their priorities are - with them. I'm not sure you can ever get over this except with time, and with them somehow ceasing giving you new 'material'.

 

I think that with both your situation and with Anthony's the problem lies not with the parents but with the fiance/ee. The parents can be a pain to deal with, but if you had a partner who just rolled their eyes at the parents, and then said to you something like: "That's just my folks, they're a pain with this sort of stuff. How about we let mum organise the flowers if she must be involved, but then do exactly what we want when we want. We can afford to do this without their financial support if we have to, I am perfectly fine with telling them to butt out if you want me to." Cue squeezing of hand, soft look in eyes.

 

At least then what you have is a true partnership, one that says 'hey we will come up against obstacles, but I'm with you baby, let's just do our thing'.

 

As long as each of you has partners that side with the parents and make excuses for their bad behaviour, and have the GALL to tell you the hurtful things the parents say about you, I can't see a way for you to feel better unless you get a frontal lobotomy or ditch the fiance/ee.

 

Sorry.

[Anthony2007]

Hey Caro,

 

I can kind of understand why my fiancee was upset by my idea of postponing until we find happiness as a couple again, because for the last 6 weeks I have kept quiet and not created any friction between her and her parents, so I guess they all assumed I was happy. But at least her parents should have realised I'm not happy still, as I was quite cold with them at Christmas and didn't say much about the wedding when they mentioned it. My fiancee herself knew all along that I wasn't happy as I kept telling her. I guess our feelings are so dynamic at the moment, as our situation is so unusual!

 

In answer to your questions, I was super sensitive when I broached the idea of us postponing of our own acccord. I'm always sensitive when I speak to her, whether it be about a minor thing or a major thing like this. Scout was wrong in that regard, as I'm not a critical person in general. I'm kinda justified though, criticising her and her parents' handling of the situation, her letting herself go when our wedding day is fast approaching and her not addressing my unhappiness but ignoring it.

 

I'm glad you take my side with the religion thing, as I wasn't sure that many people would see my perspective. My fiancee says I'm a liar as I told her when we first started dating that I wasn't religious. Well it's hardly a lie, as I wasn't, but over the years my feelings have changed. Her parents would hit the roof if they find out I've started attending the occasional church to try and find some kind of faith. But I think they should know now, before we get married. I'm worried that it will create major friction in the future between us as a couple, if we follow separate faith paths and develop greater differences, whilst she still thinks divorce is never an option, because of her own upbringing. But it's hardly my fault or a sin for me to have developed an interest in finding a faith, is it?

 

On the subject of whether there's someone more suitable out there, I guess you could say that about almost all relationships. Nobody's perfect, which is why I disagreed with the person who said it sounds like I'm looking for perfection. I'm not a shallow person at all. But if you find that you no longer have life aims, goals, mutual affection for each others' personalities and you're less attracted to someone, then it's hardly an ideal situation.

 

There is someone better out there for me and for her and for you too, Caro, but I guess that's what life's about - making a choice and choosing someone to be your life partner? Before all this trouble started with her parents, I had no doubt I wanted to spend my life with HER even though there might be somebody better out there in the world for me. I believe there's no point losing something that could be good for you, in the hope of finding someone or something better, as I may end up finding someone with different problems which are equally damaging to our relationship and to me as a person.

 

But it's the type of problems we're experiencing which are my main concern. My fiancee doesn't at all agree that trust has been somewhat damaged, and so has loyalty. She totally doesn't see it.

 

If she has become really sick, I would stand by her forever. If we were broke, I would do the same. But it's the kind of problems involving trust, respect, communication and loyalty that have developed since her parents'trouble-causing.

 

The hard thing is, when we don't talk about her parents, we're fine and our relationship is pretty good. So maybe I should just continue on and hope that we only see her parents twice a year or something? Other couples have problems with their in-laws huh.

 

Maybe if I left her now, I would regret it and look back on this time in my life thinking 'Darn, I did the wrong thing, as my fiancee was trying to do something amazingly diplomatic, by pleasing her parents but still staying with me and marrying me, and by pleasing her parents at the same time, it means that as a couple we can enjoy their friendship in our future too, whereas if things had stayed bitter between her parents and us, it would have made our future difficult and miserable"??

 

What do you all reckon about the accusation I proposed too soon? I mean, we had known each other 5 years, dated for long enough and had a house together, so...

 

Also, her mother's first language is not English. My fiancee used to exaggerate her parents' hurtful comments about me/us, but now she uses her mom's language situation to excuse her mom's actions/words. But her mom is a very educated woman and speaks almost perfect English. I'm pretty sure she knew what she was saying...

 

Finally, I just wanted to respond to your last thought about the 'gall' Kim's parents had in telling her about the hurtful things her parents had said about her. I strongly believe Kim and I have a right to know, via our fiancees, what their parents think of us, as knowledge can help improve a situation. It's no good to see that someone (our in-law's) hates you, but you don't know why, so I think it's not a bad thing how our fiancee's told us how their parents thought about us.

 

Anthony

[Scout]

Hi, Anthony. I actually feel more sympathy for your situation than my other post expressed (the make up thing did pique me a bit, lol). And i've been following your thread since.

 

Tell us more about the spirituality thing going on. Because it does sound like that might feel threatening to your fiance...that you're exploring your spirituality. Why do you think she would feel that way? Was religion shoved down her throat when she was a kid? I wouldn't be surprised if it was, based on her fears of how her religious mother wiill react to you choosing any faith that's different from her own.

 

I agree with what you said in an earlier post that at least part of her actions are based on trying to compromise for her parents and you, but at some point a line has to be drawn. Certainly in the case of your freedom to choose any spiritual path you want to. But your girlfriend may not understand that not all spirituality/religion is as hardcore as how some people practice it. yeah, I have a feeling her mom probably really shoved it down her throat.

[caro33]

Hi Anthony

 

I'm not sure what to advise from here, I think that only you know just how difficult this situation is. The only thing I keep coming back to is that need for you and her to bond together. See this as your first real test together maybe. The communication issue is fundamental - if you are committed to this you have a real responsibility to communicate to her what you are thinking (as long as you are also being responsible with your thoughts and not blurting any old thing out). As your partner, she has a responsibility to take what you are feeling seriously. Her not doing so is a major red flag.

 

I'm glad you take my side with the religion thing, as I wasn't sure that many people would see my perspective. My fiancee says I'm a liar as I told her when we first started dating that I wasn't religious. ...But it's hardly my fault or a sin for me to have developed an interest in finding a faith, is it?

 

If you are changing in ways she cannot live with, that's for her to manage, including choosing to not marry you. This is not a consumer affairs issue where you misadvertised your product; you are a complex human being and if you are agreeing to marry one another you are agreeing to be part of, and witness, your partner's journey through life. This is not static, it is a process. It includes each person's evolution (or devolution if you are unlucky) in such areas as philosophy, religion, etc. As long as you are not trying to draw her into weird sacrifices and nightly naked prancing under the full moon I'm not sure she has any 'right' to claim false advertising. Even if you were doing wacky things, too bad. She doesn't have to like it, but it's her choice to stay or go. Same thing goes for you.

 

On the subject of whether there's someone more suitable out there, I guess you could say that about almost all relationships...There is someone better out there for me and for her and for you too, Caro, but I guess that's what life's about - making a choice and choosing someone to be your life partner? Before all this trouble started with her parents, I had no doubt I wanted to spend my life with HER even though there might be somebody better out there in the world for me. I believe there's no point losing something that could be good for you, in the hope of finding someone or something better, as I may end up finding someone with different problems which are equally damaging to our relationship and to me as a person.

 

Hard to comment here, because of course there is always the mythical 'perfect' person. And if you've never been with someone else, or had much experience it's that much harder to know what you should expect from someone else in a relationship. But I don't think that 'respecting my feelings and not shutting me out or steamrolling me' is an unreasonable standard to hold a future life partner to, and I think that if your current cannot meet that standard you can be assured someone else can. And it's not too pernickety to move on. But, if as you say, she was great before, maybe the issue here is to unpick, however one can, the complex emotions she has around this marriage.

 

What do you all reckon about the accusation I proposed too soon? I mean, we had known each other 5 years, dated for long enough and had a house together, so...

 

As a general rule it's an absolute crock. What rubbish. Too soon for her maybe, which is fair enough and should also tell you her level of commitment and readiness for being married to you. But there is no objective 'too soon' - unless maybe if you'd barely waited a couple of weeks after meeting her. For many people, a year or two is enough. Buying a house together should have precipitated marriage discussions if you were going to have them.

 

Finally, I just wanted to respond to your last thought about the 'gall' Kim's parents had in telling her about the hurtful things her parents had said about her. I strongly believe Kim and I have a right to know, via our fiancees, what their parents think of us, as knowledge can help improve a situation. It's no good to see that someone (our in-law's) hates you, but you don't know why, so I think it's not a bad thing how our fiancee's told us how their parents thought about us.

 

I guess what I am getting at here is what is necessary versus what is unnecessarily hurtful. Some of the stuff Kim has mentioned in previous emails, such as saying she is 'ugly' I think, is totally and absolutely unforgiveable. She should never have been given that information - completely unnecessary. It's that kind of objectionable stuff I am reacting to.

 

Re your case, first of all, unless her parents are superb actors, you would probably have guessed they weren't rapt with you. It's not like they have been subtle so far! Even if you hadn't guessed, why exactly do you need to know they don't like you? Do you need to know the detail? I think that the person who says to their partner stuff like 'my mother doesn't like you, she said she wishes I would leave you; she thinks you are too short and you smell bad' (replace with whatever detail you have been given) is being nasty, or at the least, being irresponsible with their partner's feelings. If you do need to know, all you need to know is that they aren't keen on you, and that there are some cultural issues maybe.

 

In my past relationship, my ex told me that his sister (who I had gone to school with, but she was a coulple of years younger) said I was a 'dreg', which in the parlance of the toxic private school we went to means 'severe geek' with a nasty twist. Now I had my own negative view of her but I wasn't going to get my partner into it because I wanted to do the right thing by him. Finding out she said that put me at a real disadvantage, and I felt hurt and angry and powerless when I was around her. But I had to smile and suck it up.

 

His mother also said various things, including trying to set her son up with her hairdresser, a good few years into my relationship with him. Did he need to tell me that? No. It further reinforced my sense of helplessness around her. And in all of this, did my ex ever say 'well, sister, caro is an awesome girl and I won't hear a negative word about her?' No. Did he say 'mother, your behaviour is deeply inappropriate, and unless and until you get a grip that caro is the one I am committed to, I won't speak to you about my life'? No.

 

That's the betrayal that galls me. That they tell you and you have those awful words to mull over. It shows at the least an immaturity about how to protect people's feelings, and at the most a cavalier indifference. I don't know what your situation is precisely, but if your fiancee is sharing all the juicy detail ask yourself if it's really required, and if perhaps she has some need to do so that's about her. It's not about loving you, it's about something less savoury.

[Scout]

Wow, great feedback caro33! I too was thinking, maybe this is their first real test...but you've also covered a lot of the other elements going on here, too. It's just hard to say, since we're only objective outsiders here, and Anthony and his fiance are actually living this. But again, I think you're giving him awesome feedback and food for thought! Very empathetic stuff.

[Anthony2007]

An update;-

 

Yesterday my folks, my fiancee and I were formally invited to my fiancee's folks' house for a meal. It was the first time they had been invited to their house (this is the way my fiancee's folks do things). As you will know if you've read my posts, my fiancee and I have been together years, but her folks didn't want to know my folks for various reasons (which you'll have read about) and because they always thought it was "too soon" to meet my folks.

 

Any way, the day at my fiancee's folks' house yesterday went ok. Her folks were hospitable and gave us all plenty to eat. However my folks and I noticed that conversation was kept strictly to what my fiancee's folks wanted to talk about. We were all there at their house for about 8 hours and during the last hour by dad brought up the topic of our postponed wedding. He just mentioned it in a soft, gentle way. We immediately noticed the change in her mom's expression and attitude. Her folks eventually talked about our plans for our wedding "take 2", but they never once asked my folks for their opinion. It was as if my folks didn't exist, even though we were all sitting at the same table. Whenever my dad said something, my fiancee stared at him like she was thinking "shut up!". Her folks showed my folks no apologies or appreciation about them (my folks) being "ok" about postponing our wedding due to her folks' demands. And remember this was the 1st time in history when both sets of parents had met together, since the postponement of our 1st wedding, which was forced upon us by my fiancee's folks.

 

So it kinda left me feeling bitter still. I really wanted yesterday to be the opportunity for us all to talk about our feelings and to make peace, but her parents just block out any guilt of feelings.

 

Sure, things were civil and nobody got into a fight, but deep down, below the surface, my folks wanted some kind of apology or at least an appreciation from her folks, regarding the postponement which my folks just had to accept, just like that, no questions.

 

We kinda can't afford our "take 2" wedding any more, so I don't know where it leaves us.

 

But things between my fiancee and I have been kinda ok for the last week or 2, except when I mention the religious thoughts I've been having, or her parents. If I mention those subjects, she goes in a mood still.

 

Anthony

[BeStrongBeHappy]

it really sounds like you have lots of negative feelings about this relationship and her family (and vice versa)... sometimes people get locked into the idea that they have to go through with a wedding because they are engaged... please really look back through all your posts and decide if anything has really changed or improved, and whether if none of these things changes or improves, you can live with it...

 

a good relationship is a negotiation, but it sounds a lot like you two have lots of differences, and don't compromise much... please think long and hard before going through with the marriage, and use this time to really talk and challenge all those problems you see right now, before you marry and then maybe have to divorce.

 

you might be able to work through this, but if you don't do anything to directly confront the differences, then they usually get worse during marriage. you talk about how you have been getting along well for 2 weeks, and that is good, but marriage is 20, 40, 60 years, or else the alternative, divorce. you have to have sustained periods of getting along well, and if your peaceful periods with her are short or fragile and easily derailed, this might not go the distance.

[caro33]

So how do you feel about everything at the moment then Anthony? What have been your thoughts over the past few days?

[Anthony2007]

Thanks for keeping in touch, Caro. How are you?

 

Over the last few weeks I've felt all kinds of emotions.

 

I'm fighting a lot of fires (proverbially) at work at the moment and I'm worried about the wedding (which is this fall) financially. My fiancee says that she and her folks will pay for most of it. But then it gives her mom even more control.

 

My folks, although they're not sulking babies, are understandably (I hope) a bit disillusioned with my fiancee's folks, as they have offered no apology or explanation to my folks about why they forced us to postpone the wedding. It's as if all the inconvenience was on their site.

 

Last week my fiancee and I went to the church I was interested in attending. She didn't agree to come at first, but I said that as we're getting married, I wanted her to know what kind of place I might be going to more often, so that she doesn't worry or have any unfounded worries.

 

The thing is, she refuses to tell her mom that we went to church last week, or even that I'm showing an interest in religion and having a faith. She said she doesn't want to tell her mom, ever, as it might upset her (the mom).

 

I asked her to discretely tell her folks about the problems I'm having at work, and the fact that, as one of the partners in a busy firm, I've had to drop my salary lately. But again she won't tell her parents as it would give them amunition to start disliking me again, seeing as they like me now that we postponed the wedding and I've kept relatively quiet about the whole thing.

 

So it's all a mess still. But whenever I think about leaving her, I kind of feel emancipated on the one hand, but on the other hand I feel tearful, like I would hate myself if I hurt her (despite all the pain she's caused me, siding with her folks, etc). She always says to me that if we split up, she wouldn't find somebody else as nobody's interested in her, and so on, and so on, and I feel a lot of sadness when I think of stuff like that.

 

Maybe I should just tell her to tell her folks about my financial difficulties and about my newfound interest in a faith, or else *I* will say we have to postpone our wedding this time?

 

Anthony

[caro33]

Hi Anthony, I'm well thanks. Sorry things aren't much clearer for you.

 

Re your last question: maybe, I guess it depends how strongly you feel about this.

 

My own view is a little different from yours, maybe. I guess I would differentiate between what is and what isn't her parents' business. You see, I think that your salary and your reasons for changing it are your (and hers, eventually) issue alone. Your church is also your shared issue, and doesn't necessarily relate to the parents yet I assume.

 

I can see why you'd want them to know some aspects of these decisions, such as where they are sharing a financial load with you and they might be making incorrect assumptions. But I guess each nugget of information you provide should have a clear reason why the benefit outweighs the cost.

 

If I use my own life as an example: my husband is a big shot in martial arts, in a sport that people outside the martial arts culture find a bit confronting. He trains regularly, and he competes. Now my husband is awesome, he's disciplined, smart and capable, and his black belts have actually helped make him what he is today. But my parents are close-minded, and have had little experience with life; they look at what they think my husband does, and they judge. They assume because he does that, that he chooses a life of tattoos, bluster, meat heads and losers. They don't know anything about the jiu jitsu culture (as I didn't before I met him) and they choose to see it as beneath them. They are intellectual snobs.

 

So what that means is that I don't tell them much about what he does. We accentuate his professional work, not his other choices, when speaking to them. That doesn't imply that I am not proud of him, it just means that some people's prejudices are not worth setting your SO up for.

 

So I guess I'm interested to understand, why do you want her parents to know these things about you right now? I tend to see your fiancee's point, but I am also choosing to assume she is being nice in how she presents these arguments. If she isn't that might change things.

 

By the way, I'm glad she went with you to church, I think that shows some progress. You might just get her to support you in the end. Good for her, and good for you.

 

She needs to get some esteem though: this statement about no one else ever wanting her is not appealing. What does that say about you! She needs to see herself as desirable, and perhaps you can talk to her about that. The current situation also sounds like emotional blackmail as well as low esteem. If this was a major reason for keeping you in the relationship, then rethink it if you can. Guilt about leaving the other person alone cannot sustain a healthy marriage. How big an issue is this for you? Your last paras sound like you are a lot less positive about things - what does your gut tell you right now about her suitability for you?

[Anthony2007]

Hi Caro,

 

Thanks so much as always for your thoughts and comments.

 

In answer to your question as to why I think her parents should know about our fraying relationship, about my recent re-attending church and about our current financial difficulties, I think they should know because:

 

- Her mom specifically used my folks' religion and any non-Catholic religions in general as a key argument against why we shouldn't be together. It was one of the main amunitions she used to try and convince my fiance I'm a bad person and my parents are bad because they're not Roman Catholic.

 

- Her mom also used my job as another way to attack me in the beginning (as it's a job where the salary is variable, depending on a number of factors).

 

- Her mom has always said that if a guy causes her daughter any problems, he's no good for her. So basically, her parents are ignorant and don't think they've caused any stress to our relationship at all, so if they hear our relationship is under stress, they will put all the blame on me.

 

I just want everything to be "out in the open" as I don't want them to say that we've hidden anything from them or lied to them. If her mom finds out I've been back to church and even that her daughter has been once, she would go mental, and I feel it's better she goes mental now that once we're married, when she will cause more problems.

 

Also, if my fiance had an accident and broke her leg, for example, she would get a lower salary, which would mean that our finances are in an even worse position that currently, which would mean we have to ask her folks for more money for the wedding.

 

Hopefully you can understand my reasonings, to a degree. Just like someone enters into a relationship hoonestly (for example, by making it known that they have a child frm a previous relationship, or they have an illness), I think it's right her parents know now, to save any trouble happening AFTER or during the wedding. We've still got time to talk it all through, as our wedding is planned for the fall in 2007.

 

Your point about her self esteem is very good. She hasn't got any self esteem at all, now. She blames most things on me, but she blames her lack of self esteem on her parents. She's a totally different person these days and I'm also a bit different as I'm under a lot of stress and have lost some self esteem too, so maybe we should wait until we're back to our usual personalities before definitely going ahead with the wedding, I don't know.

 

Anthony

[caro33]

It certainly sounds like you guys need to short circuit some of the pain here and find a way to start again. I realise this will not resolve anything in itself, but can you guys take a break? Like a work love-in, a planning conference somewhere distant. It just sounds like you two need to reconnect, and if you could both see clear to taking a couple of days to relax, unwind and discuss your plans and dreams maybe it will help you both be able to stand together as a team when life keeps coming at you.

 

I see what you are saying about being honest with her parents. I am not advocating dishonesty, but perhaps you are pushing for "all at once" in an honesty sense here, and it might just make an already difficult situation more difficult. I wonder if you and your fiancee can't find a way to strategise around how to bring her parents along for the ride in a way that taps into their best, rather than their worst, qualities.

 

I could be being naive here, but I would suggest you have a think about some key issues that you would like to work with your fiancee to resolve, and then put it to her that you'd love her input and advice about how to achieve these things. Be clear that you won't just sweep stuff under the rug with her parents but you understand it's a thorny issue for them (you and your life choices that is) and you want to sort out with her how to plan for a happier future with her family involved. And then take that break. Make time on the break for eating, walking, holiday stuff, but also make the time to talk about these matters.

 

What do you think?

[Anthony2007]

Hi all -

 

Thought I would give you an update....

 

1) We still have a date planned for our wedding "take 2" but have not ordered or paid for anything other than the ceremony.

 

2) My fiance and I still argue quite a lot, due to the mutual resentment between us as a result of what her parents did to us last year. She thinks I should take the chip off my shoulder (get rid of the grudge) and we can all be one big happy family (even though they still refuse to say sorry or change their ways).

 

3) Our finances aren't any better. We have sat down together a number of times recently to look at the numbers and we can afford the wedding if we use half of her savings, but otherwise it wil be very difficult right now. There's still a lot of uncertainty with my job, which was as much a shock to me as it was to everyone else, as last year my job and income were great. It's certainly not something I had planned and hoped would happen!

 

4) I've been feeling more and more what you might say "depressed" recently, to the point where my head feels like a train's hit it. I feel bruised, aching, tired and my confidence in social settings has nearly gone. My fiance is gaining weight each week and her health is also getting a bit worse like she is always very tired and she says she is depressed too.

 

5) She has been to visit her folks for the last 3 weekends in a row. Each time, she promises me she will talk to them properly about our finances, about our arguments and about my attending religious meetings since December. Each time, she returns home to me and says she didn't talk to her parents 'cos she didn't want to upset her mother.

 

6) My dad very nicely and politely phoned her dad last week to discuss our finances and our "other problems", as my parents are worried about me/us. Her dad hid his conversation with my dad from her mom, just like he's deleted emails in the past that I have sent to her mom, or trashed letters I've sent to her mom in the past (when she refused to talk to me on the phone).

 

7) Her folks are generally being much nicer these days, as long as everything is on their terms. Talk about what they want, do what they approve of, and everything is fine. Take an opinion, express a feeling or do something they're not keen on, and the tension breaks loose again.

 

8) I'm still attending religious meetings. My fiance has decided to attend church, but a totally different church. She seems to enjoy the fact she's chosen the opposite to me, and fails to realise how our 2 different directions might affect us in the future.

 

9) But despite all the above, and our fading sex life, she seems very keen to get married later this year still, despite all our problems which just don't get any better.

 

I just still don't know what to do. Part of me says the logical thing is to break up, even if it's painful. But another part of me knows I still love her, although I'm not in love with her as much these days (can you blame me, after siding with her parents time and time again, and so on?). It's all just one big disaster but time is ticking. I think the best compromise would be to postpone the wedding, but she seems against that.

 

Anthony

[kellbell]

Hey there Anthony!

 

" 1) We still have a date planned for our wedding "take 2" but have not ordered or paid for anything other than the ceremony."

 

This is the least of your worries at the moment.

 

"2) My fiance and I still argue quite a lot, due to the mutual resentment between us as a result of what her parents did to us last year. She thinks I should take the chip off my shoulder (get rid of the grudge) and we can all be one big happy family (even though they still refuse to say sorry or change their ways)."

 

This worries me here. For a couple of reasons. One, she is not even trying to put the shoe on the other foot, to see matters from your perspective. And the other, she is going through life with blinders on. It is very hard to just forgive and forget. And the odd thing is, she knows what her parents (her mom) have done is wrong or else she would not think she would have to talk to her parents. But yet she tells you just to forget everything. She avoids confrontation like the plauge.

 

"3) Our finances aren't any better. We have sat down together a number of times recently to look at the numbers and we can afford the wedding if we use half of her savings, but otherwise it wil be very difficult right now. There's still a lot of uncertainty with my job, which was as much a shock to me as it was to everyone else, as last year my job and income were great. It's certainly not something I had planned and hoped would happen!"

 

My friend, a wedding is not supposed to make a person broke like this. Plus, it is just a wedding, the MARRIAGE is what is crucial here. Do you really have to have an extraggavent wedding? It is supposed to be a happy time of your life, not miserable. What is the point?

 

"4) I've been feeling more and more what you might say "depressed" recently, to the point where my head feels like a train's hit it. I feel bruised, aching, tired and my confidence in social settings has nearly gone. My fiance is gaining weight each week and her health is also getting a bit worse like she is always very tired and she says she is depressed too."

 

You feel like this because of all the stress you are going through and she too. A wedding is not worth this pain and misery. It is just a wedding, one day! I am sorry to trivliaize your big day but keeping in mind all what you both have been through, it just seems downright pointless.

 

"5) She has been to visit her folks for the last 3 weekends in a row. Each time, she promises me she will talk to them properly about our finances, about our arguments and about my attending religious meetings since December. Each time, she returns home to me and says she didn't talk to her parents 'cos she didn't want to upset her mother."

 

She avoids conflict like the plauge as I mentioned before. My friend, she is not ready to be married. To you or anyone for that matter. You want to know why, because she keeps putting her family first, her parents. Now is the time to put you first, YOU are her family now. And if does not walk through fire to fight for you and protect you, then she is not ready for this ulitimate committment.

 

"6) My dad very nicely and politely phoned her dad last week to discuss our finances and our "other problems", as my parents are worried about me/us. Her dad hid his conversation with my dad from her mom, just like he's deleted emails in the past that I have sent to her mom, or trashed letters I've sent to her mom in the past (when she refused to talk to me on the phone)."

 

Well, it sounds like her dad is a little more reasonable and compassionate. But bear in mind, do you really want to put up with this nonsense for the rest of your life? And subject your future children to these people?

 

"I'm still attending religious meetings. My fiance has decided to attend church, but a totally different church. She seems to enjoy the fact she's chosen the opposite to me, and fails to realise how our 2 different directions might affect us in the future."

 

How has attending these meeting helped you? Do you find inner peace? Do you feel stronger? My friend, for the life of me, cannot understand why you want to marry this woman and marry into her family. I just do not understand. *sigh*

 

"9) But despite all the above, and our fading sex life, she seems very keen to get married later this year still, despite all our problems which just don't get any better."

 

Do you honestly think that marriage will make all your issues disappear? I feel getting married will make your issues worse. If you marry her, I honestly do not think you will make it a year. You need a healthy sex life in your relationship. Without sex, then you two will be just buddies, just roommates. Sex is one of things that separates us from our friends and romantic partners. It sounds like the both of you have nothing to keep your heads above water.

 

 

"It's all just one big disaster but time is ticking. I think the best compromise would be to postpone the wedding, but she seems against that."

 

So what if she is against it? She does not seem to care how anything or anyone effects you, heck, she just wants you to forget. So why do you have to go along with what she wants? You do not even love her. If find it hard that a person can love another whom treats the other the way she has been treating you. Perhaps you are just dependent on her. This is YOUR LIFE TOO!!!! You are not some robot, some puppet to do what others want you to. You have feelings, thoughts, a mind. You deserve to be happy.

 

As hard it may be, I would cut her loose. And never look back. This is all a disaster and it is my feeling it will only get worse. The least you can do is postphone the wedding.

 

Thank you for checking in and hang in there. We are all pulling for you.

[Anthony2007]

Hi Kelbell,

 

Thanks so much for your reply and your support.

 

The actual wedding itself is the least of our worries right now, I agree with what you say. The ironic thing is, when her parents forced us to postpone, some of her friends lost money on pre-booked accommodation and flights, but she seems to forget that, implying to me that MY postponement will inconveience so many people, when "her" postponement did but she's forgotten about all that.

 

She has tried to put the shoe on the other foot but she just says it's in the past and I should stop getting obsessed about it all. The thing is, her parents literaly refused to apologise and due to their other weird actions in the past, I can't consider their recent pleasant actions as being a physical apology, as opposed to a verbal one, if you get what I mean.

 

You're right - she avoids confrontation. But I guess I do too in some ways, which is partly why I blame myself for some of this. By the way, she says most of what happened over the last year is my fault, for proposing too early, for giving her the impression I wanted marriage or nothing, for not ignoring her parents' awful comments and actions, and so on.

 

A lot of couples experience stress leading up to their wedding don't they? So I think the financial stress is more acceptable, but the emotional stress is abnormal. Ever since I was a kid I dreampt of getting married and never thought it would be like this leading up to it!

 

I agree that the actual one wedding day itself is not worth all this stress and misery over. I think we should just elope somewhere nice and get married, cheaply. After all, we live together and have a house and other priorities now. But she wants a big white wedding to please her mom.

 

My parents say we can do whatever we want, and have whatever kind of wedding we want, as long as we're happy. My parents are so brilliant.

 

I guess the reasons why I'm still undecided on leaving her right now are:

 

1) Deep down, I do still love her, although a little less than before, and I'm not IN love with her half as much. But it's not like all my love has gone.

 

2) Maybe she has a point and I shouldn't be such a baby, being offended by the hurtful comments her parents said about me and what they did.

 

3) Maybe I did unintentionally give her the impression I wanted marriage or nothing. But we had been together more than a year by the time I proposed, so her rejection the 1st time round hurt me. I didn't give her any ultimatums though. I just obviously told her I was expecting a yes and couldn't totally udnerstand her reasons for saying no.

 

4) I feel guilty for returning to attending religious meetings. When we first started dating, I told her my parents were religious but that I had been raised in the faith but then decided not to attend any more. At that time, I had no intention of going back, but I guess things change. I still feel quilty though. Would it make any difference if I told you that my parents are Jehovah's Witnesses? However thay have never, ever, pressured me into going back to their meetings. They say the decision is entirely mine, and they have supported me whilst living with my fiance. They are excellent parents.

 

5) We have a house together and we would need to spend quite a lot of money on the garden before we could sell it.

 

6) I'm kinda emotional deep down and don't think I could cope with seeing all the places we used to go to, and thinking of her and what was. Even though she hurt me, the memories of the good times we had will hurt me a lot.

 

7) She's said to me (which I've mentioned on enotalone before) that she would unlikely find anyone else if we split up. I kind of feel quilty and sad about that, even though she's hurt me.

 

8) I know that if we split up, she would either blame me, my parents, Witnesses or my job/work, and take no responsibility herself. I feel like crying when I think of how she might turn nasty about all these things.

 

I can't stop feeling like the bad guy for half of the time. Yet I've not held back on telling you guys anything on Enotalone. Maybe it's just my personality. For example, if one of my clients doesn't pay, I sometimes feel sorry for them, even if they're horrible people and obviously lying. My dad's a bit like that too - someone wrongs him yet HE feels bad about it, almost like we take on both sides' emotions.

 

Last year she sent me many text messages and emails saying how she couldn't stand her parents and hated how they were treating us/me and how she would stand up to them. Since we postponed our first wedding (her decision, to please them) she has turned sharply the other way, even denying that she said any of these things to me, even though I have the text messages and emails to prove it! It's almost like last year didn't happen and I dreampt (nightmared?) it, and it's kind of playing with my brain like I'm going a bit senile. Any of your seen The Pledge with Jack Nicholson? I kind of feel like him, at the end, where he's rocking backwards and forwards in a mental stupour, as he didn't intentionally do what the lady said he did, but he couldn't prove otherwise. I hope you get what I'm saying. I guess it makes me feel very confused. Justifiably?

 

9) I sometimes think that if this literal physical heavy feeling in my head (depression?) would disappear, then I would love her and be in love with her again. Is this feeling deep resentment or something?

 

10) Maybe I'm wrong in expecting her to put me/us first. I love my parents a lot and wouldn't want to hurt them, so maybe I should be able to see that she's sided with them all the time as she doesn't want to hurt them.

 

11) I feel real bad about occasionally looking at other women, but then I never (honestly, I didn't) looked at anyone else until she and her family started creating so many problems.

 

12) She relocated (ok, only 150 miles) to live with me. At the time, she said she hated her parents and couldn't want to build a life with me. But obviously if we split, she'll be stuck here on her own. Though I guess she can move back to where her family live.

 

13) I feel quilty about not being quite as attracted to her since she put on quite a lot of weight. But I'm under immense stress both at home and at work, yet I've kept slim, go to the gym and am in good shape. Whenever I mention that she needs to lose weight to look good on our wedding day, she kinda just laughs at me.

 

14) Maybe I should forgive and forget instantly. But I find it so hard to, especially knowing they don't think they've done any wrong and they think they've no need to be sorry.

 

15) Perhaps I should have understood and respected that her family do things differently to most other people. Maybe I should have been more understanding.

 

16) I hate regrets and really could do without any right now. Sure, I will probably regret marrying her this year, but maybe next year things will improve and be good? So maybe I should stick it out, but we postpone the wedding. Or, how about this - maybe I give her a chance and suggest we elope and marry overseas on vacation, keeping it cheap (not spending lots of money on food and drinks for guests) and see if she will really stand up to her parents on this one? As I still kinda feel the current take 2 wedding is going their way...

 

I guess some of this can be repaired but not with the wedding day "take 2" fast approaching on the horizon. I kinda believe that if my job improves back to where it was (which was very good), she gets a new job (as she hates her current job), we go on vacation, spend time together and fall in love again (maybe - if we can), then we might both want to get married again.

 

But maybe the damage she and her family have done should be enough for me not to want to repair our relationship, even though I'm not the one who broke it?

 

I don't think her parents will understand my emotions and reasons if we did postpone again, as she never talks to them, after promising me she will. And when her mom found out I was going back to Witness meetings, my fiance suddenly started going back to Catholic Mass, almost like to spite me. Then again, it could be genuine, but is it good if an engaged couple start pursuing 2 different faiths?

 

The reduced sex life is partly her fault, partly mine. We're both so stressed and tired these days. But I guess my resentment towards her, which I think is justified, is causing me to be attracted to her less, plus her weight gain, plus she never wears mayeup any more but she used to, plus she dresses lazy and never used to. But my main worry is emotionally.

 

Anthony

[caro33]

Hi there Anthony

 

You raise lots of issues and things do not seem to have progressed.

 

I have probably said this before, but I think you need to take a step back here. You are talking about marriage here - binding yourself under God (if you believe) and the state to another person. From the sounds of things, you don't even like her very much, at least you do not like the way she behaves.

 

I am going to comment on the things that jumped out at me from your last post:

 

"Deep down, I do still love her, although a little less than before, and I'm not IN love with her half as much. But it's not like all my love has gone."

 

Um, you don't need all your love to be gone to decide this is not for you. Many people have some love for their SOs but have no intention whatsoever to get married. As long as you are waiting to not care anymore before you leave you are setting yourself up to continue with the marriage no matter what.

 

"I'm kinda emotional deep down and don't think I could cope with seeing all the places we used to go to, and thinking of her and what was. Even though she hurt me, the memories of the good times we had will hurt me a lot."

 

This is the least of your worries! Of course breaking up hurts, but you get over it! This is by far a much less pain than marrying the wrong person and marrying into the wrong family!

 

"She's said to me (which I've mentioned on enotalone before) that she would unlikely find anyone else if we split up. I kind of feel quilty and sad about that, even though she's hurt me."

 

I have commented on this before, but from an outside perspective this is BS; it is emotional blackmail. Her esteem issues are not your concern. She will have much greater esteem problems in the future if she marries a man who has such misgivings about her. You are not doing her any favours by sticking around out of guilt. We are talking real recipe for disaster stuff here.

 

"I know that if we split up, she would either blame me, my parents, Witnesses or my job/work, and take no responsibility herself. I feel like crying when I think of how she might turn nasty about all these things."

 

Yes, difficult. But as with the above, this is the least worst option compared to you spending THE REST OF YOUR LIFE with a family that resents you, a wife who disrespects you and who you disrespect.

 

"Maybe I'm wrong in expecting her to put me/us first. I love my parents a lot and wouldn't want to hurt them, so maybe I should be able to see that she's sided with them all the time as she doesn't want to hurt them."

 

Well yes and no. I have commented on this a lot in the past. You are not wrong expecting her to put you first, however you also need to be sensitive enough to help her to put them first sometimes if it seems politic. However, that does not sound like what is happening. You need to be a team, and you are not a team at all as far as I can see.

 

"I hate regrets and really could do without any right now. Sure, I will probably regret marrying her this year, but maybe next year things will improve and be good? So maybe I should stick it out, but we postpone the wedding. Or, how about this - maybe I give her a chance and suggest we elope and marry overseas on vacation, keeping it cheap (not spending lots of money on food and drinks for guests) and see if she will really stand up to her parents on this one? As I still kinda feel the current take 2 wedding is going their way."

 

My advice is to postpone the wedding, full stop. See how you feel. Do not replace the wedding "take 2" with another wedding concept (Part III: The Elopement) until you feel better about actually marrying here. This is not about the ceremony, it's about "until death do us part". If there is any chance you see yourself regretting marrying her under any circumstances, do not do it.

 

If this was happening to your best friend, what would you advise him? Would you seriously suggest he marries his fiancee even if he knows he's likely to regret it, in the hope that it gets better? You can't just expect things to somehow go back to when things were good, you cannot "unring the bell" that has been pealing for the last few months.

 

Anthony, you have been sent message after message here about who your fiancee is, and where she has come from. Now it's come down to it, you don't like that very much. What does that say to you? Yes, breaking up is hard, it's all a challenge. But better to have a few months of heartbreak now than a lifetime of stress and loneliness.

 

How about you see someone - go see a counsellor. If you are depressed they can help you. They can also help you work through some of the issues so you are more confident in your feelings and what you need to do.

[Anthony2007]

I totally agree that I don't need to wait for ALL my love to have gone before I think it's time to call this relationship a day.

 

It's hard to know what to feel (or what I'm feeling) emotionally at the moment as my personal, emotional, spiritual, financial and romantic lives have all been thrown up in the air since the original postponement.

 

Her parents are now saying that everything to do with our "take 2" wedding is our decision, such as who, what, where, when, and so on. They say the decision to postpone for financial or emotional reasons is ours too and they will not interfere. They also say they're perfectly happy for me to follow whatever faith I choose.

 

This is great at face value, but if you think about my original posts on here, all that they are saying now is 100% the opposite of what they said about me through the first years of our relationship. It's kinda scaring me how her parents have made a complete u-turn.

 

Do you people out there think I should accept their scarily perfect u-turn as their way of apologising (as they're refused to do so verbally) or should I be a bit worried that they're Jeckel and Hyde kind of people who change their minds drastically, quite often? The thought has crossed my mind that maybe they're happy we might postpone, as it will leave the door open for them to start turning their daughter against me again?

 

So maybe us choosing to postpone this time is the best decision all round. Funny thing is, last night she was accepting of the fact we will probably postpone - and when I woke up this morning I felt sad in a "missing her" kind of way.

 

One potential problem in postponing is that if I do pursue the faith path I'm currently going down, it will mean living together unmarried is something I should be avoiding.

 

Grrh, it's all so difficult. And it's odd how whenever I read Caro's later posts, it seems you're gunning for her parents slightly more than at first, and I feel the bad guy like it's my fault that I don't quite feel the same about her any more. But if someone's SO does something to hurt them, it's not the victim's fault surely, so I hate beating myself up this way.

 

I'm glad to have enotalone to be able to express myself on. I can talk to my parents too, very closely indeed, but it's nice to have others to discuss feelings with.

 

Anthony

[caro33]

And it's odd how whenever I read Caro's later posts, it seems you're gunning for her parents slightly more than at first, and I feel the bad guy like it's my fault that I don't quite feel the same about her any more. But if someone's SO does something to hurt them, it's not the victim's fault surely, so I hate beating myself up this way.

 

Wow, you think that? No way! Sorry if that's how I have come accross. I think her parents sound awful and unforgiveable, and I think your fiancee is behaving in a selfish and manipulative manner. I also think I commented on them enough and don't have anything new to say. I don't think this is your fault at all, except for the degree to which you choose to stay there. And even then, I get why you do, so "fault" is not the right word. I recognise you didn't ask for this.

 

Personally, I think that this sounds like a bad family to marry into. I think that your relationship with your fiancee has several major red flags, all of which I have mentioned before. I am actually gunning for you to find a way to be happy, and if that means you get out or postpone (which I think seems like a good idea) then all power to you!

[redboots]

Hi Anthony,

 

This is my first post here - I feel compelled to weigh in on your situation.

 

I'm a 30 year old woman. My boyfriend and I have been dating for 4 years, living together for 6 months, and are now seriously discussing engagement and marriage.

 

I was engaged prior to this relationship. My ex-fiance's mother was meddlesome, mean and immature. She depended heavily on my ex for financial and emotional support, and resented me because she felt I was taking her place. It took me a long time to understand that the problem was not his mother - the problem was my ex fiance. He should have put HIS foot down - told his mother that I was the woman he was going to marry and demand the respect he claimed I was owed.

 

Instead, he did nothing. His mother was disrespectful, spiteful and cruel to me. She wore me down and made me miserable. I realized I had to end things when I noticed that wearing my engagement ring made me upset. His mother made ridiculous demands for the wedding WE were paying for, and eventually, I couldn't look at the ring or think about our wedding without crying. Yes, his mother was the direct source of the problem, but he was the ULTIMATE source of it.

 

She only did what he allowed her to. Your fiance ALLOWS her parents to treat you without respect. She will continue to do this and this will NOT change once you are married. Imagine a life of being belittled in front of your own family, spouse and, eventually, your own children. Does that sound like something you want?

 

It seems that you're looking for someone to validate your decision to continue your relationship with this woman and her toxic family rather than tell you to do what needs to be done. You don't seem happy in this situation, you admit that the love you feel for this woman isn't passionate, and you seem defeated when you type about your relationship.

 

Love is not always candy hearts and romance, but it certainly isn't a perpetual state of confusion and resentment.

 

You seem to lay most of the blame for your problems with your fiancee on her parents. I think you fail to see that she is, without question, the SOLE reason for your problems. Her parents know way too much about your relationship and she seems overly dependent on them and their opinions.

 

It doesn't matter how toxic her family is, Anthony - she is the one who allows their toxicity to infect your relationship. Her responsiblity to you, as your fiancee and presumably the woman who would leave her family to begin a family with you, is to put her foot down.

 

For that reason alone, my friend, SHE is not ready to get married.

 

You, on the other hand, seem ready to be married. Perhaps so ready that you'd rather marry a woman you are clearly uncertain about than be alone and face the uncertainty of that.

 

The bottom line is that you don't seem happy here. You're guilt ridden over the possibility of ending an engagement and long-term relationship, which is completely understandable. You do care for this woman and aren't a terrible person, but you owe it to you BOTH to do what is best.

 

Life with this girl isn't going to get any better, Anthony. She doesn't seem willing to admit that there are any problems with her family, so what is going to change?

 

The only thing that will change is that you'll be legally bound to her, and it'll be a heck of a lot more difficult to get out of a bad situation then.

 

Good luck.

[caro33]

Great post redboots! I had the same thing and I completely agree with your points.

 

Welcome to ENA!

[Northalius]

If you're having communication problems with your girldfriend now, it'll be worse in a marriage. A relationship is a two way street, and communication is needed to keep it going, not just wanted... needed.

 

So, you need to let your girlfriend know this, and put your foot down about it. Tell her she needs to communicate all of her feelings and thoughts with you, if this is going to last. If she willingly holds so much in, I'm sorry, but I'd seriously think about breaking it off with her, until she can open up with you. This, is the number one issue that needs to be addressed - communication between you and your wife.

 

The parents are another issue, but if your wife can openly communicate, then that's all that matters. You're getting married to her, not her parents.

 

Tell her to go to counseling with you. Some serious issues need to be worked out before this relationship goes any further, especially before you get married!

[Anthony2007]

Hey everyone,

 

Firstly, Caro, thanks so much for all the thoughts you've given me and sorry I thought you were slightly moving to her parents' side.

 

Thanks for getting in touch, Redboots. I'm glad you're happy with your new fiance after the band experience you had with your first. Your situation sounds similar to what Caro went through, and what I've been through last year.

 

The main dilemma I'm struggling with at the moment is that since they forced us to postpone our first wedding, her parents have been really nice to both of us and to my parents. When they speak to my fiance, they ask her how I am, and show more of an interest in our life/lives. My fiance TELLS me that they have even readily accepted my interest in a faith which her mom told me last October that she hated. It seems like now, since we agreed to postpone, her parents are happy for us to decide what we want in all areas of our lives/life.

 

This creates a few dilemmas/questions in my head.

 

Firstly, maybe they have changed and maybe, despite having said and written lots of awful things about my family and I, their issue was just with the timing (i.e. them contributing) of our first wedding.

 

Secondly, if I'm trying to be a Christian (although not obsessive or "over the top") then maybe I should forgive them, even though they still actively refuse to verbally apologise for what they've done and said last year. Maybe their changed attitude towards us is their way of showing they're sorry? Whenever I think this, I feel kind of happy-sad, like I want to forgive them, but something in side of me won't let me do that (probably because they refused, to my face, to apologise, and refused to thank my parents and apologise for the inconvenience (they, her parents) put mine through. Basically, maybe I've got so many feelings bottled up because they wouldn't and still won't talk about what's happened. Maybe if these feelings came out, I would feel refreshed and better about the whole thing. But maybe I'm just being a baby and should forget and forgive. Perhaps the fact I've not done so says that I'm not ready for marriage either. Although in my heart and head, I know I am ready - more than ready.

 

I suppose one of the main things that scares me is that she denies things she's told me about her family. Sure, she may have said them in the "heat of the moment" when things were really bad, but she actually denies saying them or writing them, even though I have emails/text messages proving it. But again, maybe I shouldn't be so hung up on what went on last year and should be happy about the fact her parents AMAZINGLY seem to be happy and supportive now.

 

But that begs the question that maybe they're being overly nice, hoping we postpone due to financial reasons, and then they can start turning her against me as we're not legally bound?

 

Is divorce really that hard to procedurally process, if we don't have kids?

 

I guess I'm struggling as I still love her quite a lot and am still in love with her to a degree, although not fully. Maybe the fact there's ANY SLIGHT doubt should make us postpone, but then I feel that would be a fault on my part, me having doubt and her having none? But then is it strange she has no doubts about marrying me, even though we argued a lot in January? Maybe she's made a deal with her parents, which has happened before. They still talk in Spanish, not English, which partly shuts my parents and I out of their conversations. But I think they're just unintentionally rude perhaps.

 

Northalius - I totally agree with what you say about communication. Perhaps I'm TOO communicative and expressive though? Is it important for both in a couple to have the same level of communication and expression? I know many happy couples where one is more expressive and one is more insular, but they get along fine. The "strong, silent type - like Gary Cooper"? Maybe she's the Gary Cooper, although she's only silent, not particularly strong. But I do still love her. Perhaps I feel like going ahead with our take 2 wedding this year because I'm misinterpreting sadness over out probably imminent breakup with the feeling that I still love her?!

 

Is there something I can do to test to see if her parents are now genuine or not, or does that even matter now? I keep picturing myself, if we break up, seeing her in the street in the future, and it makes me kinda wanna cry if I think about it for too long. Grrh it's so difficult.

 

I guess this is one last email of thoughts from me, so please excuse me and thanks so much to you all for your time so far.

 

Anthony

[caro33]

I suppose one of the main things that scares me is that she denies things she's told me about her family. Sure, she may have said them in the "heat of the moment" when things were really bad, but she actually denies saying them or writing them, even though I have emails/text messages proving it. But again, maybe I shouldn't be so hung up on what went on last year and should be happy about the fact her parents AMAZINGLY seem to be happy and supportive now.

 

I don't like that she is not being honest with you. To give her the benefit of the doubt, I assume she is maybe embarrased that she was disloyal to parents, and she's pretending it didn't happen. But even so, this tells you her priorities. As far as I can tell from this, it means that she puts her pride and loyalty to her parents over you.

 

In my world, I might have been embarrassed, but I would have said to my fiance that that's how I felt, that maybe I overreacted etc. I would find a way to be honest with him and be clear that the first priority was finding a way through the issue rather than putting my head in the sand. The past DOES matter when it's still so recent, and when there has been no apology and no recognition of wrongdoing. At the very least this past has relevance to you because it is evidence of both your future in-laws and your future wife's means of coping with situations.

 

Is divorce really that hard to procedurally process, if we don't have kids?

 

It's not impossible but it's not going to be fun. If you are asking yourself this question seriously then you must take a break and re-evaluate the wedding plans.

 

Is there something I can do to test to see if her parents are now genuine or not, or does that even matter now? I keep picturing myself, if we break up, seeing her in the street in the future, and it makes me kinda wanna cry if I think about it for too long. Grrh it's so difficult.

 

I don't think you can truly test them. People aren't so predictable or consistent, as you have found out. They might not even know themselves how they feel, let alone be able to reflect that to you.

 

My advice is actually as it was before - I think that the parents are beside the point here, the issue is your connection with your fiancee. I strongly suggest you take a break together to deal with this and resolve some issues. One some level you can see this as business - you need to understand your contractual requirements here and you need to broker a deal that does not leave you worse off. Marriage is about sharing your lives together, your finances and hopes and dreams. It's about negotiating though the everyday stuff and being supportive to one another. You really sound like you need to reconnect with her and plan your future together, not the wedding.

 

I keep harping on, but you need to be a TEAM. Stop talking about love and let's talk about respect and support. What would it take for you guys to be the team you need to be, and is achieving that possible in your eyes?

[herenow]

Don't do it. Do NOT get married yet.

 

My husband and I are both happily married now, but it was looking bleak for quite a while there. We both came from dysfunctional families--his parents were divorced, mine were abusively miserable. We didn't know HOW to do this love thing skillfully. Your observations about your fiancee's familiy are telling--she has a lot of issues and does not know what real love is like, much less how to give it. I don't know what your family is like, but maybe you have some things to learn, too.

 

Fortunately, my husband and I attended a church Premarrieds class together for twelve weeks, where we learned what healthy and loving marriage looks like. We learned what red flags and problem areas to look for before marrying someone, and how to stop a relationship that wasn't headed in the right direction. We learned what problems to expect and how to handle them. It was a long class, but worth it.

 

The class helped us to have courage to break off our engagement . We both got therapy to understand our individual roles in the problems we were having.

 

We eventually felt confident enough to get engaged again, and announced it to everyone, had the venue deposit paid, the dress paid for, etc.--

 

but we were fighting and miserable still. Something happened and we broke up again. It was embarrassing to tell people the wedding was off, but we did. You can't marry and hope it will all work out afterwards--I learned that the hard way with my first 9and obviously failed) marriage.

 

Eventually I got enough therapy on my own that I was able to make big changes in the way I viewed myself and treated my husband. My changes inspired him to make changes, too. We slowly rebuilt our relationship. We got married last summer and we have been very happy.

 

I know how much I had to learn to let go of negativity in my own head before I could have made a good marriage partner. My husband had to learn a lot more about his own issues, as well, in order to learn how to show me love.

 

We had soooo much to learn.

 

I think your fiancee is not getting married for the right reasons and that she does not truly love, respect, and admire you. I'm just saying that as a woman, knowing how I feel those things about my husband and alwayshave. Your fiancee may want a way out of her family and may want the social status of being a married woman (married to a lawyer, no less--good "catch" for a gal), etc.--but she does not sound like she really, really cares about you. She just doesn't want to lose you.

 

She certainly has not cut the apron strings to her family, and that will make you nothing but miserable later on.

 

I think the thing that enabled my husband and I to work through our stuff is a shared spiritual belief. We are not the same religious denomination, but we are both incredibly in tune with each other spiritually. We study hard and have the same understanding of God and how things work spiritually. We enjoy traveling to different churches together and discussing afterwards whether the Spirit was alive in each place or not, and discussing what we thought of each church and its teachings and its way of doing things. We love talking about spiritual matters together. We pray together at night. We pray for each other and for our families and friends and co-workers together. And God answers. And we feel grateful and blessed together.

 

I want you to experience that joy with your future life partner. There is nothing more wonderful than shared spiritual journeying.

 

Explore your own spirituality more. And find a partner who will be a good partner in that.

 

My advice is to pray for your fiancee's happiness, and then be firm and break off the engagement.

 

Neither of you is ready yet.

 

It'll be a bit rough at first, but you will be sparing the both of you YEARS of misery down the line.

[redboots]

Hi Anthony,

 

Your post made me think of something a good friend of mine said once. His girlfriend of two years began to pressure him heavily about marriage. He broke up with her because, as he said, "she didn't want to marry ME. She just wanted to get married. If you really feel like you've got the rest of your life to spend with someone, what are a couple of months or years in the grand scheme of things? No one ever complains that they got married too late, but I know a million people who regret that they rushed into things."

 

The bottom line here is that you feel ambivalent about whether or not marriage is the right step to take right now. This isn't a case of cold feet - your fiancee and her family have given you plenty of reasons to be concerned. You two don't communicate well and her parents are only a symptom of the real problem.

 

At best, your girlfriend seems very immature. Her selifishness and inability to stand up to her parents point to this. My impression is that she really hasn't learned to stand up to her parents at all, in spite of the fact that everyone is making nice for the time being. It's all well and good now, while the in-laws are making a concerted effort to make nice, but what happens if/when her parents revert to their old behavior?

 

I applaud you for making an effort to move on and not focus on the past, Anthony. I am a firm believer in the power of forgiveness, and it's clear that you've made an effort to forgive your girlfriend and her family. It is sometimes difficult to see the line between being forgiving and being a doormat, however. Don't mistake your concerns with this relationship with an inability to forgive people, Anthony. There is a difference and it is important that you see that.

 

The bottom line is this: the only way you will know if your girlfriend's family is sincere and if you two are truly ready to walk down the aisle is to wait. Put the brakes on the wedding planning and focus on your relationship.

 

If your partner respects you and wants to marry you for the right reasons, she will understand your concerns. She may not be thrilled with the idea of postponing the wedding, but again...if she loves and respects you and truly wants to be your wife....she will ultimately see that this is for the greater good.

 

And if she doesn't? You've gotten your answer about whether she wanted to marry you or be married.

 

I'm not telling you not to marry this woman. There isn't a person on earth who can answer that question but youw. What I am hoping, though, is that you'll at least wait a good, long while before you do it.

 

As my friend said, "no one ever complains that they got married too late, but I know a million people who regret that they rushed into it."