Engagement Blues, General Confusion, Bleak Future & Bad In-Laws

[Anthony2007]

My story is very similar to RockChickKim's:

showthread.php?t=159414

 

I've been dating my fiance for 2 years and we've been living together for 1 of those years. When we started dating and I met her parents, they generally liked me. Then my fiance told her parents that mine are of a non-mainstream religion, but that I haven't attended church since 16 and am not a follower myself. Her parents' attitude towards me and us changed instantly. She (her mom) started to say, over a course of many months, lots of nasty things about me and us, about the way I look, my education, background, my parents, my job, our relationship and about their own daughter (my girlfriend).

 

A few months into our relatinship, my girlfriend suddenly told me she thought we should break up as she didn't know what she wanted from her life. She wanted to travel and be free and find out who she is. We talked all night and decided to stay together, mainly as a result of what I had said, not what she had said. She seemed a very weak person you see.

 

Things between us got better and we had some really good times. She had a miserable life at home, as her parents constantly row and argue about all kinds of things and generally made her life quite miserable. We decided to move in together towards the end of the 1st year of our relationship and things got even worse. Her parents tried everything to stop her moving in to live with me (3 hours away by car). I tried to respectfully communicate with her parents but they refused to listen or talk. Her mother kept saying that if I contacted them again, she would hate me. Obviously I told her that I wanted things to be good between everyone involved, but she just kept repeating the same things.

 

In the Fall, her ex contacted her and she turned really strange. She used to cry all the time but wouldn't talk to me about why. It wasn't until a few weeks later that she told me her ex had been contacting her. She seemed to still have feelings for him even though they broke up 2 years ago after he cheated on her repeatedly.

 

Then things got bettwe between us again for a while, when she told him about me and he stopped contacting her.

 

Christmas last year was utterly miserable, everyone eating in silence, with false pleasantries. Her dad refused to shake my hand. All that kinda stuff.

 

I proposed to my girlfriend in Spring 2006 and initially she said no. I asked her why and she told me that she saw a bright future with me (whereas she had always seen a dark future with her ex) but didn't want to tell her parents about it as they hate me, so she would rather we don't get engaged for a while longer. She asked me if I could propose again in at least 6 months. I lovingly agreed to propose again later. I proposed 3 months later as things seemed really good between us. She said maybe, thought about it for a few days and then said yes. When she told her parents the news, they hung up the phone. Then her mom emailed her with abusive comments about us, me, my parents, marriage, men (her mom hates men) and all kinds of other stuff.

 

Things between us and her parents have been very tense since she told them that we're engaged. Her parents constantly try to convince her not to marry me.

 

Her brother got married in September and her parents suddenly wanted to talk to us about our own marriage plans. Despite having sent many emails stating their views and abusive comments in black and white, they told me that the only reason why they weren't happy about our engagement was because we didn't want until after her brother's wedding before we announced it. Is this a good enough reason? I mean, we set our wedding date for spring 2007 and only announced our engagement, we were not stealing any of the attention away from her brother or anything.

 

When her parents finally talked to her and I, they still didn't answer any of the questions I wanted to ask them and they refused several times to apologise for any of the upsetting things they've said to/about me and my family. Her dad told her that he would not speak to her again and he would diswon her if we got married in spring 2007. He wanted our wedding to be some time fall 2007 or after. Why couldn't he have told us this at the time she accounced our enagagement? Instead, the refused to even acknowledge that we were together or engaged for many months. They even refused to speak to her until a week before her brother's wedding.

 

Her parents finally agreed to meet my parents recently, after much persuasion. They still refused to compromise or to properly talk, though - her parents just made demands, expressed their opinions and expected my parents to accept them.

 

We spent some time over Christmas with her family. Her dad is always in a bad mood, doesn't say anything, occasionally shouts, doesn't like small talk, spends most of his time in his room, antisocial. Her mom is a devout Roman Catholic and has very strict opinions about men, life, marriage and other stuff. She wears the pants in their relationship. She accused him of having affairs years ago. Because of their mother's influence, my girlfriend and her brother didn't speak to their dad for a few years despite living in the same house as him. This is one messed-up family. Problem is, my girlfriend thinks it's normal for a man and woman to be married but to argue constantly, because her parents do this.

 

Very similar to Kim's situation, my girlfriend made a deal with her parents. She agreed to postpone our wedding to a date that suited her parents, so that they would still speak to her and come to the wedding. She agreed that they could have major influence in the location, style, guests and all the other stuff. We lost money on the original wedding plans we had made.

 

Anyway, the point is, we're getting married in October 2007 and I just don't know how I feel any more. I feel like a chess pawn, used by her and her family. I don't feel like a human with feelings. She expected me to agree to postpone our wedding to please her parents, even though they acted like babies and became very nasty, refusing to talk about it for months. No, her parents are suddenly acting all nice, and, like Kim, I don't know if it's because they're smug because they've gotten their way, or because they are actually happier for us now.

 

But even if they're genuinely happier about us now, her mom is still trying to dictate things, from the dress to the invites to the guests and so on.

 

My fiance acts as if everything is great now, but there is still so much tension because of the unsaid things. My girlfriend and I have never really talked about how we feel, because she refuses to talk. I'm a very communicative person and she's not. She bottles her feelings up. I tried to tell her the other day how unhappy I feel and she walked away! Sure, I've got some troubles at work at the moment and these problems must influence our relationship in some ways, but the main reason I'm unhappy is that 65% of the time, I don't feel connected to my girlfriend any more. I feel she let me down when she kinda chose her folks over me. And before that, I felt let down when she almost ended it when her ex contacted her. It seems that in our relationship it's always me who is the one conceding and giving in to others' feelings.

 

We have always enjoyed the same interests such as swimming, hip hop music and the same kind of foods, but in the big things in life, we just don't agree any more. I've started to attend various different churces recently as I feel I need some faith in my life. When I ask her how she feels about this, she just laughs at it and says she doesn't mind what I do or choose. I asked her how her staunch Roman Catholic mom will react if I decide, for example, to become a Buddhist. She said I was stupid for even asking this question. But because of all the awful problems her family have created for us so far, I see so many additional problems in our future, so it's important to talk about things like religion, kids and other big issues now, before we get married. But she just doesn't see it at all. And I doube divorce would ever be a last-resort option as her parents would die of shame.

 

Throughout my life I've met various parents who have told me they wished I was their daughter's boyfriend as I'm such a nice guy. But I've ended up with horrible people for in-laws. It would be fine if my fiance appreciated how I feel, but she thinks her parents are great now. It's just so difficult. Why did I get the short straw, and do I really want a future full of tension?

 

My fiance has also put on a lot of weight since the problems with her parents started. She doesn't wear any make-up any more even though she knows that when we go to the movies or something, I'd like her to wear some.

 

It just feels like she's complacent in our relationship and would be too scared to lose me. Maybe she's just scared of being alone. I am too, but I would prefer to end it now or at least not get married this year after all, compared to being trapped in a marriage of silience, tension and misery, every time we even talk about her parents in a conversation.

 

I just don't want to do anything stupid. I don't know how I'm feeling, if I 100% love her any more after what her and her family have done, and what I truly want. I guess I want a future full of more happy and nice people than horrible, negative people. A couple of other women have asked me our recently and I do like them, but said no because Im a faithful guy. But it was tempting, because my girlfriend just want talk about things. I can honestly feel us turning into her parents and becoming like them.

 

I wanted to express my thoughts on Enotalone and see what you think.

 

Anthony.

[DN]

Hi Anthony - welcome to ENotAlone. There is an ironclad rule that you should always follow when contemplating marriage: if in doubt - don't do it.

 

And you have major doubts and it seems with good reason. Your fiancé does not seem committed to you or the idea of a marriage being a balanced partnership - she seems far too compliant with what her parents want and to allow them to treat you in the way that they have is a disgrace. The only thing that she has done in your favour is to actually agree to marry you and that seems lukewarm at best.

 

I suspect the reason that her parents insisted on postponing the wedding was to give them more time to dissuade her from marrying you.

 

It would be a mistake to go to war with her parents and insist she take sides but she does at the least need to be a mediator between you and them and facilitate a good relationship - or at least, a better one than exists right now.

 

I think the time has come for you to tell your fiancé that you are having serious doubts about the wisdom of marrying her while these problems remain unaddressed and that you need to start solving them before plans can proceed. Be very clear in your own mind about what you want, what you are prepared to compromise about and what you can let go.

[Siriana]

I admire you, really, and I mean it in a positive way.

 

You see this situation in a way that it really is, and you know how problems you two have are real problems.

 

And lets face it you are mature enough not to cheat

 

You don't have your mind clouded with blind hope, you are realistic as a person should be when considering getting married.

 

You are not in a stage where you need other people to explain you what your situation is, and what are the implications of it.

 

You already answered yourself. Reread the part of my post where I quoted you.

[kellbell]

Hey there and welcome to eNotAlone although I am truly sorry the type of circumstances that brought you here.

 

DN is absolutely right about when in doubt about marriage, do not go through with it, or wait until things have cleared. Marriage is a big deal, not to be taken lightly as you have probably realized.

 

Looking from the outside in, I will say do not marry this young lady, ever. I have re-read the beginning part of your post and from the sound of things, your fiance was never thrilled and entralled about this proposal. And to me, being thrilled, excited, giddy is the type of reaction you want. Not the reaction your fiance had. Declining, asking you to ask later, and so forth is usually not a good sign. Now, if things were different with her family and your relationship with her parents, then perhaps delaying the proposal would have been okay, until other matters smoothed over. But my friend, this is a disaster. Just utter chaos and dispicable behavior. Sometimes I wonder why can't some parents just be happy for their children, pray that they raised them right and let them lead their lives?

 

Unfortunately, many people mistakenly feel that marriage will fix things, that it will right all the wrongs, that it will elicit change...for the better. But it does not. In fact, in many cases, it makes things 100 times worse. Do you really want to spend your holidays for the rest of your life like this? What about children? Do you want to put your future children in this mess? I can just picture her mother meddling in how you will raise your future kids, causing more issues. Yikes. What if you and your fiance, God forbid have financial troubles down the line and you need help? Do you honestly think HER parents will help?

 

Perhaps think about what you envisioned for your potential wife would be. Make a list of characteristics and qualities you want and need in a partner. And then make a list of what your fiance has and compare each list. I did that once and boy, was it an eye opener.

 

I really do not see your fiance changing. The blood runs real thick her family and I just feel given what you have described, your fiance will continue to please her parents at your expense. IMO, her family is you now, and her future kids. Not her parents. She needs to consider your needs first before her parents, her brother, and I just do not see her doing that. And her commincation style is another issue. Marriage will not fix that.

 

I do not envy your position at all. But what ever your choose, think long and hard. Don't be a stranger here, keep us updated on how things are going.

 

Take care.

[assumeLove]

Try counseling. It's possible to make all this work, but ten times easier if you plan how you'll do it before the wedding.

 

Try marriage education classes, too. It sounds like you're coming into this marriage with better relationship skills than she has (not surprising, given what sort of relationship she grew up in). And that's an imbalance you can remedy, as long as you're not her teacher.

 

You're right to be concerned with all of the things you've mentioned, and you sound very astute, fair, and level-headed about it all. Don't allow wedding planning to take precedence over marriage planning.

 

I'll be keeping my fingers crossed for the two of you.

[Anthony2007]

Responding to DN:

 

I agree that it's not wise to go through with marriage if one has some quite strong doubts like me. I'm 26 and when I was a kid I often dreamed of a happy engagement and marriage, my girlfriend being really happy about my

proposal and then a nice happy wedding. But this is the opposite to what's actually happened in my life recently.

 

Even though I do love my fiance in many ways, my mind keeps telling me I could probably find truer happiness with someone else.

 

I think my fiance is NOW, after much time, commited to the idea of marrying me, and her parents are also warmer to the idea, but it all feels a bit "too little, too late" for me, as their negative feelings and actions have already shot me, if you get what I'm saying.

 

I understand why you feel her parents insisted on postponing the wedding to buy them more time to dissuade her from marrying me, but the big question is why are they now acting all nice and really enthusiastic about it, when only a few months ago, her dad said he would rather die than see her marry me? This is one of the other things that worries me for my future, how if her parents can change their emotions so quickly like that, will their emotions suddenly change again in the future about all kinds of other things? They still criticise our jobs, our food choice, our car choice and so on.

 

Yes, I certainly won't go to war with her parents but I feel like I will also harbour bitterness and resentment and not trust them, because of what they have done and their personalities. When I was a kid I was bullied at school and didn't stand up for myself, and I feel like the same is happening again, kinda like I'm being bullied and not standing for what I want and feel, suffering in silence. If I speak up, her parents just drown me out and my fiance doesn't really want to hear my deepest thoughts.

 

The biggest problem right now is that we had already organised our previous wedding and postponed it, and now that her parents are suddenly happy about us, we have already organised various things for our fall 2007 wedding such as the church and the party venue, hotel rooms and so on. I feel kinda trapped as I feel the air needs to be cleared with talking, before the marriage still goes ahead.

 

In response to SYRIX:

 

Yeah, I wish I knew the reason why my girlfriend isn't very good at relationships. She's my 2nd serious girlfriend (although I didn't live with my first and didn't see a future with her) and I'm her 2nd serious boyfriend. I think it must be her strange family upbringing that has affected her judgement on relationships. She thinks it's normal for a husband and wife to eat their meals in silence and occasionally say something nice, then have little arguments constantly, then occasionally be nice for a few seconds. But for me, right at the start of our marriage life together, it doesn't feel right or normal to be like this.

 

In response to KELLBELL:

 

It's true, she was never thrilled about the idea of getting married. Her brother ran away from home when he was 20, to live with his girlfriend. They didn't speak to his parents for many years and they waited 12 years before getting married. I think my girlfriend wanted us to do the same kind of thing.

 

You use the word disaster and you're right, it's one huge mess. But my girlfriend doesn't see it. She thinks and acts like everything's cool now, even though there it still tension, she has lost a lot of my trust as she chose her parents wishes over ours and she has lost a couple of friends over this situation (they thought she should have chosen me not her parents). This is a view that everyone I know shares, that my girlfriend tried to be the noble mediator and get a compromise deal to please her parents and me, but she has failed, only pleasing them.

 

I did what you suggested and made a list of qualities I would want in my potential wife. In the smaller things (like the same tastes in music, food and leisure time) my girlfriend is perfect, but in the large issues like trust and generally being on my wavelength when it comes to feelings, she scores quite low. I guess a good summary would be to say that our relationship is great until I think about her turning down my first proposal or until her parents derailed our first wedding, then we start to argue and I want out.

 

In response to ASSUMELOVE:

 

I have thought about counselling and my girlfriend lukewarmly agreed to go, but she doesn't think it will do any good and she admitted she would still bottle her feelings up inside. Plus there's the time factor. Her parents are now already paying for things and making arrangements, so it's almost too late to stop the wedding plans. Her parents are so careless that they believe I'm 100% happy with them/the situation, even after what they've done.

 

Her dad planned his birthday party for 2 weeks after his actual birthday, so the party was on the day we were getting married, and I didn't go. They didn't even understand why I didn't go, they're that naive.

 

Some questions for everyone:

 

1) Have you or do you know of any couples who have experienced internal problems like this, so early on in their relationship or married life?

 

2) How can I figure out if my trapped, depressed feelings are because of this awful mess with our marriage plans, or partly also because of problems at my work/job and/or partly because I'm going through a soul searching passage in my life where I want a hope for the future, through either family or religion or friends?

 

3) Is a relationship which is 65% fine based on the same interests and tastes, which then turns bad quite often whenever her parents or emotions are mentioned, worth continuing with?

 

4) Am I really justified in feeling so bitter towards her parents and kind of losing some trust and respect in my girlfriend because of her choices? After all, she acted with good intentions, trying to please both parties.

 

5) Might my feelings be ironic? I regularly start crying when I'm alone, and it might be some kind of ironic happiness I'm experiencing, where deep inside I'm actually happy but I'm wrestling with some bitter feelings too.

 

I just dont know.

 

6) Isn't it fair to say that many couples have problems with their in-laws too, and these couples all manage, so why shouldn't I just shut up and get on with things? Personally, I wanted a loving extended family to marry into. My folks wanted this too, so that I could look forward to staying with the in-law family on holidays. But instead, I dread it. Her mum speaks to me like I'm a 12 year old boy. She even says I act like one because I say thankyou too much! But the week previously, she complained I didn't say thank you enough.

 

7) How much truth is in what some shrinks say about marrying your father? I ask this because recently I've become moody as a result of the problems with her parents and her inability to addres or deal with them, and she seems to like it better when I'm moody, maybe because I'm like her father?

 

8) For the first time in 2.something years, we had a pregnancy worry. Because of our relationship between quite messy and strained, I kindly asked her if we could hold back on the sex for a while as the last thing we want right now is kids. She agreed and is intending to see a doctor to go on the pill. Do you think I made the right decision? I mean, abortion is not something I would want, but nor is a kid at this stage, when we're not exactly ecstatically happy together.

 

9) Maybe her parents were justified in being angry about us announcing our engagement (and it was a very quiet, discrete announcement) before her brother had gotten married - maybe we should have waited until after?

 

Grrr, I'm just so confused about everything. I do love her mostly, but my feelings have definitely changed and she doesn't understand why. I don't want a future alone, yet I don't want a future with unresolved feelings of bitterness towards my in-law family. I don't want to regret me breaking us up, but at the same time I don't want to regret marrying the wrong woman who choses her family over me at the end of the day. But perhaps I'm being hopelessly romantic expecting a fairlytale commitment of love from her, which doesn't happen in the modern day?

 

Thank you all for listening. I'll keep you posted.

 

Anthony

[Anthony2007]

I forgot to say in my reply that I guess because of what has happened, I love her but I'm not in love with her as much as I used to be. I've even told her stuff like this, as I believe strong couples should share their feelings, but she just said that's fine and she seems to want to go ahead with the wedding. It kinds of feels like even though we're 26 and 29, we're like a couple in their 40s, having a mid life crisis or something.

 

Anthony

[Siriana]

First you're mentioning the money beeing spent on a wedding. Let me ask you for which amount of the money are you prepared to make yourself unhappy?

 

1. no

2. You're not feeling bad because of the marriage plans that are messed up, or because of the job, you are feeling bad because your finacee is completely blind about problems you're facing and she's going to stay that way all her life because that's who she is.

3. You said that you get along in small stuff but not in the crucial ones. Is 65% correct percentage than.

4. Yes you are. You have evry right to feel that way. I would feel betrayed and second best.

5. No, you are crying because you are really unhappy and you have every right to be sad.

6. Oh, come on, do you really believe what you're asking here applies to your situation?

7. Who cares about that right now.

8. Yes, if you've done something else instead of that in your situation, that would be ...oh, I don't know the right polite word.

9. Stop making excuses!

[DN]

It seems to me that you are entangled in this relationship and have so many aspects of it to deal with that you are not looking closely enough at the two things that is of paramount importance:

 

1. Do you love this woman enough to be able to overcome or overlook all the difficulties that are causing the problems?

 

2. Does she love you enough?

 

If you cannot answer both of those questions with a confident "yes" - then you should end it now. All the other considerations, - canceled plans, upset etc. are of much less significance compared to the misery that you will suffer if you go through with the marriage.

[kellbell]

Hey there Anthony,

 

 

Some questions for everyone:

 

1) Have you or do you know of any couples who have experienced internal problems like this, so early on in their relationship or married life? No, I do not. Relationships, let alone marriage should not be this hard. True, they have bumpy times but not like this. If you have been experiencing issues such as this early on, what makes you think that marriage or waiting things out will change anything? I learned that during times of stress and adversity, one can see a person's true colors and personality. You have had the blessing of seeing everyone, your fiance, her parents' true colors over and over again. Anthony, this is the kind of people they are, they are not going to change. Instead, you need to make a decision whether or not you want to deal with this mess.

 

2) How can I figure out if my trapped, depressed feelings are because of this awful mess with our marriage plans, or partly also because of problems at my work/job and/or partly because I'm going through a soul searching passage in my life where I want a hope for the future, through either family or religion or friends? Remove yourself from one of these situations. I would remove yourself from your relationship right now. Think about how things were before you got into this mess, I think your personal life is reeking havoc on your professional life and your soul's core.

 

3) Is a relationship which is 65% fine based on the same interests and tastes, which then turns bad quite often whenever her parents or emotions are mentioned, worth continuing with? Are you sure this is 65%? Based on what you have written, do you feek this is a bit high? These are superficial interests you and your fiance share, obviously it is not enough for you to feel safe and secure about this proposal and future with her. You need to be on the same page on bigger and heavier issues.

 

4) Am I really justified in feeling so bitter towards her parents and kind of losing some trust and respect in my girlfriend because of her choices? After all, she acted with good intentions, trying to please both parties. Absolutely. Yes, you have every right to lose trust and respect for everyone involved, especially your fiance. She is supposed to be backing you up, standing up for you. She is not 12 anymore when she is supposed to do what her parents tell her to do. She is an adult, about to get married. She is no mindset at all to be wife to anyone. She is still there puppet. No one respects or trusts a pushover. Without those two qualities, your relationship has nothing to stand on. Having the same interests in lesiure time, interests, music cannot save this relationship.

 

5) Might my feelings be ironic? I regularly start crying when I'm alone, and it might be some kind of ironic happiness I'm experiencing, where deep inside I'm actually happy but I'm wrestling with some bitter feelings too. Because Anthony, you are miserable. Miserable to the core. Nothing you had planned for your future, nothing you dreamed or hoped is coming true and your brain knows you have every power to stop it and your not. This is why you cry.

 

I just dont know.

 

6) Isn't it fair to say that many couples have problems with their in-laws too, and these couples all manage, so why shouldn't I just shut up and get on with things? Personally, I wanted a loving extended family to marry into. My folks wanted this too, so that I could look forward to staying with the in-law family on holidays. But instead, I dread it. Her mum speaks to me like I'm a 12 year old boy. She even says I act like one because I say thankyou too much! But the week previously, she complained I didn't say thank you enough. Yes, couples have tough times with in-laws but not like this. I think now you are grabbing at straws with this one. One of the top five reason why couples get divorced is because of meddling and over-powering in-laws and the person choosing his/her parents over his/her spouse.

 

7) How much truth is in what some shrinks say about marrying your father? I ask this because recently I've become moody as a result of the problems with her parents and her inability to addres or deal with them, and she seems to like it better when I'm moody, maybe because I'm like her father? I have heard of this but given your problems, this issue is totally irrelevent.

 

For the first time in 2.something years, we had a pregnancy worry. Because of our relationship between quite messy and strained, I kindly asked her if we could hold back on the sex for a while as the last thing we want right now is kids. She agreed and is intending to see a doctor to go on the pill. Do you think I made the right decision? I mean, abortion is not something I would want, but nor is a kid at this stage, when we're not exactly ecstatically happy together. IMO, this is was a good thing to do.

 

9) Maybe her parents were justified in being angry about us announcing our engagement (and it was a very quiet, discrete announcement) before her brother had gotten married - maybe we should have waited until after? Anthony, your issues with her parents were bad before you had any kind of engagement. I believe they are using excuses to treat you and their daughter like poo.

 

Bottom line is, this is the way things are going to be. This is the way her parents handle matters, being verbally and emotionally abusive. Her brother running away and not speaking to them for 12 years should be huge sign. Their parents are hurtful. They treat both their children the same way, and you. Whose to say they will not treat their grandchildren the same way? This is how they behave when they do not get their way. And you my friend, have all the power to stop this and get away.

 

I hope I answered your questions and that was helpful. Hang in there.

[Anthony2007]

Thanks for your replies, everybody. I really appreciate your time and your advice.

 

In answer to the very pertinent questions you raised regarding if I love her and if she loves me enough to overcome these problems, I would answer that I still love her but my "in love" feelings have become mangled and I'm holding back on them. I would say that she loves me and is in love with me, but perhaps she has spoiled her true love for me by listening to her parents? I personally believe that if she truly loved me, she would at least understand that I'm still hurt, but she can't comprehend it to maybe she doesn't understand me fully.

 

I agree that the things we have in common are superficial, but I keep thinking that she's the only person I've found with whom I have SO MUCH in common, so I would be stupid to let her go, even though I'm hurt. Can you kinda see where I'm coming from? When we're spending time with friends and family, we say and do the same things automatically, like we're the same person. We're so, SO alike. But does that happen to other couples, even if their actual love and foundation are a little rocky like ours?

 

I guess what's really confusing me is that her parents have very quickly changed their feelings and their attitude, and maybe they are genuinely more interested in us now. I just really don't want to look back on my life and wish that I had stayed with her because her parents actually were being newly genuine, after their initial hatred. But have you ever had feelings that are hard to change? I mean, even if they are slowly changing, what they have done makes it very hard for me to like them again.

 

When I was asking you all if you knew any other couples who had had similar problems before getting married, I kinda thought that others had problems with ex's who reappear on the scene causing problems, or others had parents who disapproved so strongly about their son or daughter's choice of marriage partner, but it seems that my situation's kinda unusual.

 

I wish I could either muster the strength to tell her it's me or them, or the strengh to remove the chip (grudge) from my shoulder. But you all seem to believe that my grudge is justified, which I believe too.

 

The main thing that makes me think twice before acting is that maybe her parents are right and we should have waited til afer her brother's wedding before announcing our engagement and maybe we should have planned our wedding for 2008 or 2009 to give her parents time to save up some money to pay for part of the wedding??

 

But we had already paid for our originally planned wedding and everything was organised. So maybe her dad just made us postpone because he wanted to retain power over the situation?

 

But now they're being all nice to me... Grrrh, it could be mind games, I just don't know.

 

I'm so sorry for not just telling her it's over. I do appreciate your advice and agree with it, I just don't want to do the wrong thing as, hey, I'm, biased.

 

Anthony

[Anthony2007]

I've just been reading Veneratio's post here:

 

 

This is another issue affecting our relationship. As I've mentioned, my girlfriend/fiancee was brought up Roman Catholic but stopped going to church when she was 16. I was brought up in a different religion and also stopped going to church at the same age. My parents accepted that I didn't want to follow any religion from that age. However my fiancee's parents, who derailed our wedding initially, still TELL my fiancee that she IS a Catholic, even though she tells them to their faces that she is not.

 

Anyway, recently I've been considering going to various churches and I've found one that I like. However my fiancee is sceptical and negative about god and all kinds of other beliefs. She says my newfound interest in religion doesn't bother her, but surely it's just yet another potential problem that could affect us later in life? Problem is, I couldn't suggest we don't get married until we're religiously aligned, as I don't even know myself what I want to do.

 

Literally every area of my life and hers seems up in the air at the moment, but her parents and her are still real keen to plan our wedding "take 2".

 

Anthony

[assumeLove]

If your inlaws are being nice about day-to-day issues and all the tension has been over wedding plans, this would be a good sign. And don't fret over the religion issue unless you're considering a religion that would push her out of your life or disgust her.

 

I personally believe that if she truly loved me, she would at least understand that I'm still hurt, but she can't comprehend it to maybe she doesn't understand me fully.

 

Of course she doesn't understand you fully! What a boring, boring marriage it would be if she did. There would be nothing more to discover. And no amount of love will lead her to understand you're hurt; that's a skill quite separate from love. Make it easier on her: tell her you're feeling hurt and what, if anything, she can do about it. She'll get to understand you better.

 

What I found in my marriage (and write about in my blog) is that while you're busy trying to measure someone against your personal "if you loved me" criteria, you are blinded to 90% of the loving things they do. Ask instead, "If she loves me, what might lead her to do this thing that's upsetting me, instead of what I expect a loving person would do?" You'll feel a lot more loved that way.

[Anthony2007]

Thanks for your advice.

 

You can now all see why I'm confused and don't know what I feel any more, as my head is quite messed up after what has happened.

 

Maybe the best thing would be to postpone the wedding a 2nd time, but through our choice not her parents, so give us more time to work things out. But I hate inconveniencing and creating bad relations with the venue, the person who will be marrying us, our guests and friends and so on.

 

Anthony

[Siriana]

Yes, postpone.

[kellbell]

Hey there Anthony,

 

"But I hate inconveniencing and creating bad relations with the venue, the person who will be marrying us, our guests and friends and so on."

 

This is the least of your worries right now. Venues and whatnot deal with this kind of thing on a daily basis, it is their job. As far as friends and family goes, if they are true to you, they would understand. Also, it not their life, they are not the ones that have to deal with this mess, you do.

[assumeLove]

But I hate inconveniencing and creating bad relations with the venue, the person who will be marrying us, our guests and friends and so on.

If you're not done preparing for the marriage, it's too early for them to be preparing for the wedding. And if they've ever been married, they'll have no problem understanding this.

[caro33]

Hi Anthony

 

I guess my response to your situation is pretty much the same as to Kim - the one thing I think you need to understand and measure this situation by is the teamwork element. When you agree to marry someone you agree to act in each other's best interests, as well as your own. You agree to face the world as a team, and if necessary, put some solid boundaries in place where the team is being threatened or pressured.

 

If she is putting her parents and her designs for the wedding ahead of you, she is not acting in the spirit of what you have agreed to enter into. Now this might be a simple reaction of hers that can be reversed, where for whatever reason she has lost sight of the need to understand you. She could be so relieved that her parents aren't going to be impossible that she'll agree to anything - it's awful when your parents don't like your betrothed. On the other hand, maybe she really is weak and easily led, and maybe she has her parents too high in her esteem and the chance of you ever forming a true partnership with her is slim.

 

Don't be too quick to dismiss your concerns because of other emotional issues. Perhpas your general stress-load is high, and it's likely to amplify existing issues, but it's not created them. The problem seems real enough.

 

Unless her father has some mental condition I think his 180 degree change in approach smacks of real manipulation and nastiness. These people sound poisonous, and I would hate to think of all the stuff that you don't know about at this stage.

 

This sounds like an awful family for you to contemplate being part of, and yes, the issues will never go away. Your choice of home, children's names, schools, jobs etc will always be up for attack. If your fiance cannot protect you and your relationship from that she is perhaps not up to the job of being your wife. I think that she isn't up to this job by the fact that she kept delaying, and also because she seems old enough to have separated herself from these people by now and she hasn't. She didn't move out until a year ago? Believe me, my parents were nothing like this bad but I couldn't get out of their house fast enough when I was a teenager. I would work any shift, live in any grotty hovel just to have my own space and be free from my mother's attitude.

 

So overall I question how committed your fiancee is to any life that does not have strong ties with these people. This says to me that she is either too weak to commit 100% to you, or maybe she is actually cut from the same cloth as them, in which case, run.

[Anthony2007]

Hey Caro,

 

Happy New Year and thanks for your message. After reading your comments, I would probably respond by admitting that my fiancee doesn't seem all that great at relationships in the family or romantic relationships. She acts and speaks like she is a confident, focused person but then when any pressure comes along like her parents blackmailing her into postponing our wedding, she gives in. She also fails to see the importance of open communication and having common goals and hopes in a relationship.

 

I just don't know what to think or feel right now. Like any human being, I feel really angry towards her parents and don't feel confident in them improving and changing for good. But at the same time, part of me is pleased that they've changed, although I'm suspicious of how they can change their views so quickly.

 

Do you think her parents blunt rejection of and outward unhappiness towards our initial announcement of our engagement could be justified by us not waiting until they were "ready and had accepted us as a couple", by us not fully consulting them about which date they would like us to marry on and the other reasons they came up with? I guess this is the biggest factor behind my suspicion and mistrust - the fact they could have said "Congratulations. We're happy for you. But couldn't you get married next year when we will be able to afford to put some money towards it?". But no, they reacted like babies.

 

My fiancee does keep reassuring me over and over that she won't let me down again, and all decisions in the future will be OUR decisions not her parents', but I'm not so sure, as she promised me we would have the wedding our way, then she sides with her family to keep them on side.

 

Because I just don't know what to think or feel right now and because I don't want to burn any bridges or shoot myself in the foot and end up with regrets, I'm kinda tempted to suggest to her that we postpone it indefinitely for now, until we find ourselves again as a happy couple again. The sad truth is, we could have afforded the original kind of wedding we had planned and organised, but since her parents' intervention, we can't really afford this "take 2" wedding. But if we postpone, I know we'll stir up all kinds of comments by her parents. Which I guess will show their true colours once again. I'm just a bit concerned about causing all this trouble to the wedding "suppliers" as we have already postponed once before! But I know life's way more important than upsetting venues, caterers and people like that.

 

I read your own posts with interest, about your own very similar situation. I'm really glad that you're happy now and have found someone who loves you and will stand up for you.

 

Anthony

[Scout]

And no amount of love will lead her to understand you're hurt; that's a skill quite separate from love. Make it easier on her: tell her you're feeling hurt and what, if anything, she can do about it. She'll get to understand you better.

 

What I found in my marriage (and write about in my blog) is that while you're busy trying to measure someone against your personal "if you loved me" criteria, you are blinded to 90% of the loving things they do. Ask instead, "If she loves me, what might lead her to do this thing that's upsetting me, instead of what I expect a loving person would do?" You'll feel a lot more loved that way.

 

That is amazing advice. I personally will remember that in my own relationship.

 

Anthony, you sound like a good guy, but there are a couple of things you stated that I noticed no one else is picking up on.

 

You're dissatisfied your fiance has put on weight. You want her to wear more make up. Other girls are asking you out and you're tempted.

 

It seems to me you might be having second thoughts about the whole responsibility, and yes, reality of marriage, and are suddenly taking the classic step of putting down your fiance to talk yourself out of getting married.

 

Perhaps you really shouldn't marry her, but it seems to me that second guessing and doubts would be natural before taking such a big step. What concerns me is that you might not be old enough/mature enough yet to handle the problems that WILL arise, no matter who you marry.

 

And the only way to deal with these problems is through healthy communication.

 

You say your girlfriend doesn't communicate. But I suspect part of that may be because of how you are trying to communicate with her. I suspect there may be a critical tone to what you're saying...especially based on your comments about wanting her to wear make up. That just gave me a feeling that you want perfection...but in reality, there is no such thing. And it can be very hard to have a partner who expects something it is not possible to be: perfect.

[caro33]

Do you think her parents blunt rejection of and outward unhappiness towards our initial announcement of our engagement could be justified by us not waiting until they were "ready and had accepted us as a couple", by us not fully consulting them about which date they would like us to marry on and the other reasons they came up with? I guess this is the biggest factor behind my suspicion and mistrust - the fact they could have said "Congratulations. We're happy for you. But couldn't you get married next year when we will be able to afford to put some money towards it?". But no, they reacted like babies.

 

I think that it doesn't matter what the reason is, look at their actions and how it made you feel. If the way they behaved really put you off, take this as a clear sign. Yes, weddings can bring out the worst in people, but 'the worst' is also their true colour. You are being faced with domineering, thoughtless people at their best, and manipulative, controlling, hard people at their worst. This is the family you are marrying into, take this seriously.

 

Going to your actual question re what their reason is, it's hard to say. Maybe you guys didn't break the news in a way the parents were receptive to, maybe they had had a bad day and lots of stress from the brother's wedding and the first reaction was 'no god no, not again'. But again I come to the fact that it doesn't matter how good or bad the reason is, if their behaviour was unacceptable to you, pay attention. It doesn't matter if they are nice now, you have been warned.

 

On them now being nice, like I said before, it's not likely to bode well. It's buying time, but once the stressors kick in again, once their control of the situation is called into question, I suggest they won't be so nice. How did the brother's wedding go, were they well behaved?

 

I'm kinda tempted to suggest to her that we postpone it indefinitely for now, until we find ourselves again as a happy couple again. The sad truth is, we could have afforded the original kind of wedding we had planned and organised, but since her parents' intervention, we can't really afford this "take 2" wedding. But if we postpone, I know we'll stir up all kinds of comments by her parents. Which I guess will show their true colours once again.

 

This sounds like a great idea. You can look at the wedding planning, at the the inconvenience to others, but look at the 'inconvenience' to you of marrying the wrong person! We are talking the rest of your life here, and what if you have kids before you get a chance to extricate yourself down the track (assuming you want to)? You have been given information you did not have at the start of all this, it is only fair that you re-evaluate if you need to, take the time. Like I said to Kim, engagement periods are not pre-wedding periods, they are times of reckoning. Use this time. I am not suggesting you break up, but why not buy some more time for you and use this time also as a means of testing your fiancee's and her family's behaviour. You might find you actually get a much clearer picture.

 

As I have said in other posts, there is such a massive difference between committing to someone with real integrity and character - an equal - and someone whose judgement you quietly question, whose character seems a bit undercooked. We are talking a life partnership here, so choose well. There is no need for you to settle with someone who is undercooked, there are plenty of women out there who have the will and the capacity to be a true partner for you and who you can depend on to value your needs accordingly. The undercooked ones aren't bad, they may be nice, you may have shared some love and some laughs but that doesn't mean you commit to them for life.

 

I read your own posts with interest, about your own very similar situation. I'm really glad that you're happy now and have found someone who loves you and will stand up for you.

 

Thank you! He's an absolute joy.

[Anthony2007]

Hey Scout. I understand and respect your thoughts about the makeup thing, but maybe I shouldn't have mentioned it as I'm not a critical perfectionist. Her lack of are and attention regarding her appearance and health since the problems with her parents started is just a minor effect of the situation, but if you add this to her choosing to compromise our relationship to please her parents (which most people seem to think was wrong), her lack of ability to communicate to me despite me being loving, warm and open to her and all the other things I've talked about, it just goes to show that our relationship and each of us personally are getting worse and suffering as a result of all these problems. That's all I was saying. A lot of people I meet often comment on how mature I am. When I mentioned other women, I was trying to articulate the fact that my fiancee's handling of the situation hasn't exactly filled me with confidence and I keep feeling deep inside me that I could find someone more loyal to me and more able to communicate with me. It's not a temptation thing really. It's more of a "This isn't right. Maybe we're not compatible after all and maybe there is someone out there who would love me better", although there is nobody specific on the scene. But I do know what you're saying and see your point

[Anthony2007]

Thanks for your further thoughts Caro. The way her parents handled the situation was appauling but the difficulty is that I admit we could have handled it better ourselves as a couple, although no way as badly as they did. I apologised to them for any things we could have done better, yet they refused to apologise for any of their more obviously negative actions. But the funny thing is, I don't think they are suddenly being happy in order to buy time. I think that because they have got their own way and are in control of things, they are happy for us to be together. They are taking an active part in planning the 2nd wedding. So in some ways I should be happy, and hey, we're taught to forgive. But it's their unrepentent attitude that really concerns me. That is to say, even though they're not taking an involvement in the wedding, they still refuse to see what damage they initially did. All they had to say was congratulations but can't you wait? But then I see your point, Caro, that maybe they were having a bad day. Every day in their relationship seems bad.

 

I did talk to her about postponing, last night. She just exited the room saying our wedding was a joke and how dare I suggest we postpone it. I politely pointed out that her parents and her postponed it, and wouldn't it be wise for us to do so also, seeing as we're hardly happy at he moment. She said she disagrees and that most of the friction has been caused by me, as I proposed to her too early (she has an unspoken rule that a guy must wait a certain length of time before proposing), and she didn't really want to marry so soon. She also told me that if I started looking into religion, it would really put her off, and we would have a miserable marriage after that. But it's fair enough for someone to encounter and desire new things, isn't it? Just because I wasn't interested in religion and faith at the start of our relationship years ago shouldn't matter right?

 

Anyway I will keep you all updated.

 

Anthony

[RockChickKim]

Hi y'all,

 

OMG Anthony, I'm so sorry to hear you're going through the same grief as me, with future in laws from hell.

 

Update: We spent a couple days over Christmas with his parents and they've totally started to streamroller our wedding plans. I had plenty opportunities to stand up for myself but my fiancee would have killed me for upsetting the peace. So I still feel like I want to let it all out and tell them how I feel.

 

I don't agree with Scout. I think Anthony's right that a gal should try to look nice for her boyfriend. I can understand how the emotional pressure has made her put on weight but from what you say Anthony it sounds like she doesn't care any more, like the whole situation's crushed her.

 

Mature people accept that problems WILL occur during a marriage, just as Scout says, but the problems we're experiencing with our future in laws are way more unusual than the problems most couples have while they are engaged, let alone when they're married.

 

I kind understand why you're feeling that there may be someone better out there for you as I'm feeling that way too.

 

As Caro says (good advice!), engagement is like a pre marriage test, and some will fail that test.

 

What I wanna know is how I can overcome the bitter resented feelings I have towards my future in laws, as a result of their actions? I'm a forgiving person but I sense that they don't give a damn and the world is all about what THEY want.

 

K xox

[caro33]

Yikes. This sounds really problematic, and may be the sort of thing that makes your decision much easier. It depends how you put it, perhaps you scared her and she reacted badly, maybe she'll come back and want to talk about it. It's hard to make a call given we don't know you or her or how each of you expresses things.

 

But if I give you the complete benefit of the doubt and assume you were super sensitive and kind with how you raised this, and that what you typed above is pretty much all she said, then AARRGH. What is with this emotional blackmail? She is supposed to be your main supporter, your person to talk to, to test ideas with! She's supposed to be your best friend, not a key source of pain and criticism.

 

And that religion thing, well look at the sorts of vows people make when they get married 'in sickness and in health' etc. They do not say 'as long as you don't get religious on me'. What are her other dealbreakers? You might also say the same thing re her letting herself go. But that's cruel and I'm not advocating you say it.

 

You 'proposed too soon' and now you're copping criticism for something you didn't know you had done?

 

I could go on, but maybe that's not fair on her, you could have just really shocked her and maybe she's running scared that your heart's not in it. But you know, maybe that's true.

 

How does all this really make you feel? Put aside if you can any fear of her parents, of postponing etc, and look at her, look at her inside and out and ask 'is this my life partner? is this the one woman I should be with for the rest of my life? forsaking all others for her?' Because that's what we are talking about here and I really can't help but think there are better matches out there for you (and for her).