Does this sound like jealousy or am I just insane?

[englishpeony]

Okay, I'm engaged. My fiance claims to be so madly in love with me, etc etc, and can't wait to 'spend the rest of our lives together.' He brings up his wife a lot however, not in a loving "I miss her" sort of way, but in a "I hate that b****, she's done me so wrong," etc etc. She abused their child and they split. Now she's with some other guy and has been for a long while now, all through the seperation and so on. Anyhow she has supervised visits once a week with their daughter and it was usually at her mother's house. Well, she's known for psychotic outbursts and had one, plus her boyfriend and her were phsyically fighting in front of the kids, so her mother banned her from her house. So she's not seen her child in 3 months. My fiancee's mother has temporary custody of the child and his estranged wife (they're in the middle of the divorce, she won't sign the damn papers for some reason) called her up this friday asking if she could visit her daughter at her house. She didn't want to but didn't want to deny her granddaughter of her mother and knew if anything happened, she'd be there to stop it. So she agreed to have her over for 2 hours Saturday and 2 hours Sunday. And then she said, "You'll have to go back to court to find some other supervised visitation."

 

When my fiancee and I got there yesterday evening to visit, his mother said, "I didn't want to tell you earlier on the phone, but Tom (his estranged wife's boyfriend) was here with Moira (his wife) on the visit. I didn't want to tell you this earlier.."

 

He was like, "Why the ^@!# was he here?" and she said, "He came, I didn't know anything about it. I didn't want to tell you earlier because I didn't want you coming up here starting @#$%."

 

I was just sitting there like, ummm.. . why would he care??? I know his mother meant no disrespect, she really likes me, unlike his wife, who she hates, and always says how she does, and thinks we're good together. But her saying that was REALLY strange to me. She sent he and I to the store to grab a soda for dinner, and I asked him about it then.

 

"Why would you care about her boyfriend coming if you're not in love with her anymore?"

 

He said angrily, (not at me, but at the situation), "Because that's MY daughter! Who is he to come visit MY daughter??"

 

I said, "Um, but she's not my daughter either and I come visit her with you. It's the same thing as your wife bringing her boyfriend with her. Obviously you're jealous of the fact that's she's got someone, and that's why you're so angry about it."

 

He said, "Actually no, I'm angry because my aunt went to get my daughter from one of the visits and Tom was in the bathtub with my daughter giving her a bath. What would a grown man be doing naked in the bathtub with a 3 year old?? I don't want him anywhere near her." He claimed social services said they didn't want to hear it, cause they had heard so much stuff about her anyway and had closed the case.

 

Um that is understandable to be angry, but why would he choose to say "because she's my daughter" FIRST as reasons for him not wanting that guy around? Instead of that whole bathtub story?

 

I think he's jealous because all of that nasty stuff he says about her is just covering up the fact that she burned him really bad, and a part of him will always love her cause she's the mother of his child.. isn't it true that parents will feel a bond between eachother for life? even if they're broke up?? And what do you guys think of the whole situation?

[DN]

He is angry because he doesn't want any other man supplanting him as his daughter's father.

[englishpeony]

He is angry because he doesn't want any other man supplanting him as his daughter's father.

 

I see what you mean. But does that mean he's jealous though- because he sees it as that guy trying to take over the role of 'daddy' with his wife? As his wife and that guy taking over as a family?? ?

 

Plus, he's always talking about me being "stepmommy" and etc etc. Why does he think it's okay for me to come with him but not that guy? Wouldn't that suggest jealousy of his wife's new man?

[LostInMyThoughts]

First, I think you might want to support your fiance next time he's upset, instead of playing devils advocate. He's upset, why are you taking his ex-wife's side? Seems like a thing to do.

 

Second, divorce can be tough on a person. He's obviously still upset at the situation. It's not jealousy, it's anger. He is being possesive of his daughter, using her to control a situation. I think thats the wrong approach though.

 

Have you mentioned to him that you feel like he brings up his ex wife a lot? How long ago were they married?

[Augusteen]

My first reaction is that you're overeacting a bit. I would not automatically go pointing the finger at your fiance here. I think he's completely in the right.

 

There a BIG difference between you visiting his daughter and the boyfriend visiting the daughter. He knows YOU. Not the boyfriend. And yes, it matters quite a bit to have a strange man (who seems rather violant) visiting his young daughter. And it's VERY weird for him to be giving her a bath. My own father never did that with me...so a stranger, to me, is even more unacceptable.

 

"Um, but she's not my daughter either and I come visit her with you. It's the same thing as your wife bringing her boyfriend with her. Obviously you're jealous of the fact that's she's got someone, and that's why you're so angry about it."

 

Um...I have to disagree with you there. He's reacting like a good father. I have to wonder why on earth you're thinking he's in love with her when everything he's done points to the opposite. Something's not adding up here imo.

 

His answers to your questions were completely normal and acceptable. Seems to me like your fishing for a problem with your fiance where there is none.

 

But I haven't checked your other posts so I don't really know all the background on your relationship.

 

My initial reaction is that you're looking for something that ain't there.

[englishpeony]

First, I think you might want to support your fiance next time he's upset, instead of playing devils advocate. He's upset, why are you taking his ex-wife's side? Seems like a thing to do.

 

Second, divorce can be tough on a person. He's obviously still upset at the situation. It's not jealousy, it's anger. He is being possesive of his daughter, using her to control a situation. I think thats the wrong approach though.

 

Have you mentioned to him that you feel like he brings up his ex wife a lot? How long ago were they married?

 

How do you figure that I'm supporting his ex wife? I'm most certainly NOT. If that Tom guy did indeed get in the bathtub with his daughter, then that's horrible and by all rights, he shouldn't be allowed to go on the visit. But my fiance tends to LIE A LOT to cover up things, and it's just very strange to me that he mentioned FIRST that it's his daughter and not that guys' (as if he was jealous of his wife having a guy and trying to take over the family role) ... and then after I questioned his real motives for being angry, he then came up with this "bathtub" story. Maybe to cover up the jealousy he feels? This is my first time hearing of this story, and I kinda doubt my fiance's mother would allow that man around had that event actually occurred.

 

But if it didn't even happen, well that guy coming with his girlfriend is no different from THIS girl coming with her boyfriend. It's called being supportive of the fact that your S.O. has a child... it shows you want to get to know the child since they'll be part of your life too.

 

He and his wife have been separated for about 2 damn years now, and she won't sign the papers, she keeps filing for extensions. They married about 4 years ago, merely because they were messing around and he got her pregnant. It was a horrible marriage from the start, from all accounts. And yes I've mentioned that he brings her up way too much, and he tries not to but sometimes he'll start to talk and then he'll say, "Nothing.." Then I pry gently and he'll start saying something about her, usually it's triggered by something on television or something that reminds him of her. Usually it's about one of her psychotic episodes and so on, nothing lovely.

[englishpeony]

If that's the case then the wife would be able to rightfully get angry over me coming and visiting her daughter, going by such logic.

 

Hmm, just remembered something, perhaps irrelevant but.. on Saturday when the wife had the visit she came alone. His mother told her that she had to leave at a certain time cause he and his fiance would be coming by later. Then the next day when she had her visit, she brings her man. Maybe because she KNEW it would make him jealous? Or, if not jealous, knew it would make him angry because it made her angry that some other woman was coming to see her daughter?

 

Hmm okay, maybe he's not jealous then. Maybe I am overreacting but there is a lot of dynamics going on here.

[LostInMyThoughts]

englishpeony:

 

Sorry that I wasn't clear. Your fiance said that Tom shouldn't be allowed to see the girl because it wasn't Tom's daughter. You countered by saying She's not my daughter, so why do I get to see her. It's like you were defending this guy Tom's right to see your fiance's daughter.

 

Yes your fiance lies a lot (probably a red flag), but that doesn't mean his anger isn't justified.

 

Just be aware that having someone you care about, turn around and defend someone you're angry at, can be really bad.

 

My motto "It's me and you against the world."

[Augusteen]

It's kinda hard to get over someone when you're still legally attached to them. I mean, nevermind that she's gonna be in his life forever because of their daughter, nevermind that they went through a life changing decision together, nevermind that they have all this history. Truth is, you do have to mind it. It's there, it happened and it doesn't just disappear.

 

Now apparently, your fiance lies to cover things up. Obiviously this bothers you or you wouldn't mention it. To me, that's a huge problem. I wouldn't be involved with someone who lied so much. Obviously that's easier said than done in your case since you've agreed to marry the man, but I would take a good long look at who he is as a person. Are you willing to accept that he lies to cover things up? What does that entail for the future of your relationship?

 

All that being said, I still think you're fishing for something that's not there. I see no proof that he still loves his ex based on what you've said. I think he's upset because this has been going on for four years and it's STILL not over or resolved. He's frustrated. And there's some weird guy taking a bath with his daughter!!

 

Could you be a bit more supportive? Yeah, I suppose you could.

 

But I get this feeling that you are, in fact, taking a good long look at your fiance now. I'm gonna go out on a huge limb here and say that you're not happy with that you see and you're fishing for problems rather than being honest with yourself. He doesn't have to be in love with the ex for the relationship to have problems.

 

--EDIT--

 

The wife being angry that you came to see the daughter...maybe she IS angry. And THAT'S why she's bringing the boyfriend along. Kinda of a 'well I can bring my SO if you can'. Maybe it's more of a 'stength in numbers' type of thing. I don't think it's love either way.

[scared44]

The daughter aside, because he should ALWAYS put her in front of everyone and everything if there is abuse involved, has he always talked about her (the wife) like he is just mad at her and everything that she does?

 

I know a few people disagree about the jealous issue that you brought up, but I can tell you that I am in a similiar situation right now. My boyfriend of three years has done nothing but talk crap about his ex-wife-couldn't stand her, wouldn't care if she fell off a cliff, she's stupid...blah, blah, blah. Well about three months ago she decided that they should get back together again. All of a sudden, he thinks he might have feelings for her. Told me that he "thought that that's what he wanted all along". Well, needless to say, this was all news to me.

 

Maybe the two situations are completely different, but I wouldn't totally discard it either. I had no clue in the world that he had feelings for her that he was just covering up with anger...

 

Just try to support him if he's talking crap about her in regards to their daughter and what she does that effects the daughter-those things are justified...but if he's just talking crap for the sake of talking crap, I would just keep myself alert....

[englishpeony]

englishpeony:

 

Sorry that I wasn't clear. Your fiance said that Tom shouldn't be allowed to see the girl because it wasn't Tom's daughter. You countered by saying She's not my daughter, so why do I get to see her. It's like you were defending this guy Tom's right to see your fiance's daughter.

 

Yes your fiance lies a lot (probably a red flag), but that doesn't mean his anger isn't justified.

 

Just be aware that having someone you care about, turn around and defend someone you're angry at, can be really bad.

 

My motto "It's me and you against the world."

 

In a way I am defending this guy's right. Well, not HIS right, but his wife's right to bring her S.O. along on her visit, just like my fiance brings me on his visit because we plan to be together so he wants me to bond with his daughter. Perhaps the mother wants her S.O. to bond with the daughter too, I mean obviously. So if that bathtub incident did not happen (and I seriously question that it ever did, being it was his second excuse after floundering for a minute) then my fiance can't really say anything. I mean, he and his wife BOTH have supervised visits, and his mother has temporary custody before they go back to court. He can't control who sees whom.

 

Well, I'm not even defending the rights, or trying to. My intent of the post was to discern whether he was jealous or not, and I still am not convinced that's he's not.

[englishpeony]

Okay, I suppose you've got some really good points here. Thank you for pointing stuff out to me, I suppose I COULD be more supportive. (I kind of feel bad now, like I was being a bit of a selfish {mod edit}, lol.) And that stuff you said at the beginning is so very true. I guess if I can't handle all of that stuff then I should just get out now? How do you suggest getting over myself and dealing with the fact that she WILL be in his life forever? I could really use some more brutally honest tips (I like your style.) Don't hold back, I need a reality check and a slap in the face, unfortunately you can't slap me in the face but you can deliver that reality check like one.

 

And I'm gonna agree with the last part "But I get this feeling that you are, in fact, taking a good long look at your fiance now. I'm gonna go out on a huge limb here and say that you're not happy with that you see and you're fishing for problems rather than being honest with yourself. He doesn't have to be in love with the ex for the relationship to have problems."

 

It's so true. Very, very true. As a matter of fact, I'm registered here under a different name and have posted some heinous stuff about him. Reason why I made a new name to post this stuff is, I didn't want people who had read my other threads to base their opinions upon that on this *new* problem.

 

It's AMAZING how right you were with your insightful post. You have most certainly hit the nail on the head.

[Augusteen]

My intent of the post was to discern whether he was jealous or not, and I still am not convinced that's he's not.

 

Well if that's the case, maybe you're sixth sense is acting up? If you're gut's telling you something, listen to it. Just be sure you can verbalize what it is you're thinking...because you'll be able to handle problems better if you know exactly what they are.

[englishpeony]

I feel that often, being so angry with one individual says a lot. It says there ARE feelings there, or you wouldn't be so angry.. ..you'd be apathetic. Or at least, not angry to the extent of spouting hateful things day in and day out. So I feel our situations are similar in a way. I am very sorry about your situation, oh my god, that has to be incredibly painful and NO ONE deserves that. It tells me that I'm not completely off-base here though, with my assessement of my own situation. Maybe I'm NOT insane and paranoid after all. Again, I'm so sorry to hear about your situation, just hearing about that makes me bad, I could imagine being in the same situation, I completely empthasise. Hope you keep us updated.

 

 

 

Indeed I will.

[Siriana]

I think he acts pretty much immature, with lack of emotional inteligence. He is frustrated with situation so chooses to react on every little thing.

He has unresolved issues - with her, but mostly inside his head, because he still hasn't come on good terms with past.

[englishpeony]

So you mean; he's still confused about how he feels?

[Augusteen]

LOL okay, so I wrote that last post before I saw your response. Got a new account huh? lol I wonder what people have been telling you from that other account? Was there advice there that wasn't your cup of tea? Just how bad IS your relationship?

 

Unfortunately, I've never been in your situation before. I tend to me more...blunt with my problems. I discuss them when they show up and try to resolve them righ then and there. And I don't let go until there's been some headway.

 

I think you need to do the same. I don't think it's as easy as 'getting over yourself (which implies you have a huge sense of entitlement here) but do need to be absolutely honest with yourself.

 

I don't know WHAT the problem is exactly (other than lying to cover things up) but you need to sit down with yourself and put your concerns into full sentences, paragraphs if need be. Once you can wrap your head around your problems and your associated feelings, you'll be a bit better at discussing them with your fiance.

 

By all means, continue to post horrible things about him. lol Maybe once you've got all the pent up negativity out you can start to calm down and see what it is you have a problem with. Or maybe you already do but you just haven't told him about it?

 

I'm going out on another limb here but I think you already know what the problem is here. You've got a nice picture of what to do and how to do it. What you lack is the courage to go through with it. Don't doubt yourself. You're NOT being a jerk if you end this relationship because of your concerns. I'm all for ironing out our problems but I'd like to live my life as well. And when you're spending all your time 'solving' problems that keep showing up, you're getting hindered a bit, don't you think?

 

Again, you won't be a jerk for listening to your gut. You're being proactive. Your preventing a possible train wreck here (I'm guessing). You are not being arrogant, you are being confident about your wants and needs. There's nothing wrong with listing your problems and hoping for feedback. There's nothing wrong with not being satisfied with that feedback and turning your back. All it means is that you've got another shot and finding what you want.

 

You kinda can't do that when you're married to someone you're constantly doubting. For whatever reason.

[englishwoman41]

Why do you want to marry a man who has so much baggage still going on ?

Take it from me, get out of this relationship now while your still sane. Its one thing to love a man but when this man has so many unresolved issues its time to ask yourself if its worth it. Take a break and tell him you will get back together when things have calmed down a little.

Also, if he has so many personal relationship problems then is he really worth marrying ? A good indicator of a future problem is how a man reacts to his former wife. If he has emotional intelligence, he will sort things out in a calm and rational manner and try and keep you out of it. If he over reacts and has a lot of problems with other women in his life and cant sort things out then ask yourself what made his ex behave as she did ?

I really wouldnt want to bother making time for this sort of man who cant solve conflict in a calm way .

[Siriana]

So you mean; he's still confused about how he feels?

 

I mean exactly what englishwoman41 said to you, my comment ment the same. Is he ready to have a mature relationship? I guess not, based on the things you've described.

 

You want an answer to your question. The answer is: a lot of unresolved past issues, that can't be resolved so soon by looking at his behaviour, are causing him to react that way.

 

I am seeing the bigger picture here: based on this is he ready for getting married to you?

[Rabican]

I have a friend, whom a while back had this problem... went like this.

 

Live in girlfriend, been together for years. She goes on vacation, the day she was due to come home she calls from another state and says... sorry im staying here f you. By the way, she had the kid with her.

 

She starts dating new guy, my buddy is crushed... his girl is out there somewhere, with a new man and his kid... and he cant even get ahold of her.

 

Eventually he tracked her down, filed for joint custody, she had to move 2000 miles back to his state. Now, he gets to see his kid, but this other guy is always around his kid too... as they are still dating. He was none too happy about it for a long time. No guy wants their little boy to be playing house with another guy... thats his son, not the boyfriends of course hes gonna be pissed about it. Pretend its your kid, do you want your ex's new wife playing mommy to your little girl?