So how much does a guys looks really matter to a girl?

[gnabna]

this is going to sound odd but i am NOT a fan of extremely good looking guys... not all good looking men fall is this category but on numerous occasions these type of men have presumed that i or one of my girlfirends could just not refuse them because they look so yummy. well a chocoalte cake can look yummy but if it is made outta mud is gonna taste like dirt!

 

so an emphatic NO looks are not the most important thing to this woman. i am much more concerened with character, integrity, humor and how he treats other people.

[Salucious]

I guess my views are a little crooked, I believe now personality can overcome looks. It is just when someone says that looks don't matter I kind of scoff at it, I mean already a lot of girls on here have said, yes, looks do matter. The question is do they matter to a point where it is a definite deal breaker. In other words, do you HAVE TO be physically attracted to a guy to even give him a chance? Because I come from the opposite side of the spectrum, whether someone considers me shallow or not I definitely need to feel a physical attraction to a girl to even consider her.

 

Heloladies, you have seen personality win over looks, from what you describe about your friend, but I haven't met anyone like that before so maybe you can undertand how it is hard to have complete faith in the idea. All my life it has just always seemed that women didn't respond as positively to me as they do with other guys giving the same effort. It made me think "Well, I am confident in talking to girls, and the only difference between me and that guy is he is bigger and better looking"

 

Then I see the posts from women here, some say "yes looks do matter" and then others mock my comments about thinking that women care about looks, lol. It is like I'm hearing an equal amount of argument from both ends, you're trying to help me and give encouragement I appreciate that, but then a lot of the women are posting "yes looks do matter" it is confusing.

[heloladies21]

I guess my views are a little crooked, I believe now personality can overcome looks.

Good!

 

It is just when someone says that looks don't matter I kind of scoff at it, I mean already a lot of girls on here have said, yes, looks do matter.

That's why I say it the way I say it, because it's not exactly true that looks don't matter. They can make things easier for you if you are good looking, but you can succeed anyways even if you're not good looking. And being good looking doesn't really get you anywhere past that initial stage because the looks wear off.

 

The question is do they matter to a point where it is a definite deal breaker. In other words, do you HAVE TO be physically attracted to a guy to even give him a chance?

Nope. You can persist through the stage where looks matter and then you're working on a different kind of attraction which is independent of looks.

 

Because I come from the opposite side of the spectrum, whether someone considers me shallow or not I definitely need to feel a physical attraction to a girl to even consider her.

You and every other guy in the world. This is a fact that guys and girls think differently. While we concentrate more on the physical, girls make decisions based on the emotional.

 

Heloladies, you have seen personality win over looks, from what you describe about your friend, but I haven't met anyone like that before so maybe you can undertand how it is hard to have complete faith in the idea.

I understand this and hopefully you'll actively seek out guys like this so you can learn from them and their experiences. Most guys, good looking or not, don't know what they're doing with women. Look at the high divorce rates and unhappy couples. This is the reason why, it has nothing to do with finances or anything like that. It's all about the guy's ability to keep her interest and as a sex, we fail. In my experiences in real life, I'd estimate less than 10% of the guys I meet know how to attract and keep girls. These guys are rare, I got lucky to bump into him.

 

All my life it has just always seemed that women didn't respond as positively to me as they do with other guys giving the same effort. It made me think "Well, I am confident in talking to girls, and the only difference between me and that guy is he is bigger and better looking"

Do you think you're alone in this misocnception? Diagnosing your own game is hard. Usually it takes someone else to critique you to find out where you really need work and tell you how to do it right. I had to have my brother listen to one of my phone conversations with a girl before I figured out that I needed help in flirting. It just never occurred to me and it was like hitting my head up against a brick wall for years. Then it came crashing down and I started getting the results that I wanted. And I still learn, I learn something new everyday and I'm always critiquing my game to find out exactly what the true problem is.

 

So in the end, they way you said it and the way they said it was probably very different. A lot of the non verbals like body language, voice tone, inflection, pace, volume, facial expressions, eye contact. All of these things are so much more important than the actual words that you say. So understand it wasn't the looks that got them what you saw, it was the other things that did it and those are the things that you need to work on. Fix this and you'll see results.

 

Then I see the posts from women here, some say "yes looks do matter" and then others mock my comments about thinking that women care about looks, lol. It is like I'm hearing an equal amount of argument from both ends, you're trying to help me and give encouragement I appreciate that, but then a lot of the women are posting "yes looks do matter" it is confusing.

As far as advice from women, lots of times it's unreliable. This is not from bad intentions, they do only want to help, but things get distorted because the way things seem and the way they actually are can be two very different things and personal feelings come into play.

 

Like think about this, it's a hard thing for lots of girls to admit that they don't care about looks, even if it's true. It goes against their social conditioning which has taught them that looks do matter. And since the logical part of their brain is the one answering the question, you're gonna get the socially conditioned answer.

 

But on the flip side, during a real life interaction, instinct takes over and this response is decided by a whole different set of DNA which is conditioned to look for other things besides looks.

 

So don't stress brotha, this is a lifetime of miscomception we're trying to overcome here, and it's not gonna necessarily be solved in one thread. It's gonna take some work to get you to the point where you really buy into this stuff. Go look at Kevin T's old posts. He was worse than you, but after a few months, he's come to see the light and is not well on his way to learning how to do this. It's only a matter of time for him now.

[CarnelianButterfly]

 

As far as advice from women, lots of times it's unreliable. This is not from bad intentions, they do only want to help, but things get distorted because the way things seem and the way they actually are can be two very different things and personal feelings come into play.

 

Like think about this, it's a hard thing for lots of girls to admit that they don't care about looks, even if it's true. It goes against their social conditioning which has taught them that looks do matter. And since the logical part of their brain is the one answering the question, you're gonna get the socially conditioned answer.

 

But on the flip side, during a real life interaction, instinct takes over and this response is decided by a whole different set of DNA which is conditioned to look for other things besides looks.

 

So you as an all knowing man are going to tell us exactly what women think because you have such a deep an thorough knowledge of how every one will answer and how she just a poor confused creature that really needs a guy to interpret all her opinions and emotions for her. Because you wouldn't want to leave it up to the woman to decide what her own ideas and emotions mean to her.

[Miss M]

Then I see the posts from women here, some say "yes looks do matter" and then others mock my comments about thinking that women care about looks, lol. It is like I'm hearing an equal amount of argument from both ends, you're trying to help me and give encouragement I appreciate that, but then a lot of the women are posting "yes looks do matter" it is confusing.

The simple truth is all women aren't alike. Some women like/need guys who are hot-looking, and some fall madly in love with guys who look yucky or unappealing to others. I'm often in the latter category. What's hot to me often looks weird to others. To scoff or imply that we're not telling the truth about our feelings just because other women are different is a mistake, and is also insultng. I have no idea why I'm like this, but I've always been like this. I was madly in love with, and felt very attracted to my "ugly" ex-husband, and couldn't even figure out why, but it didn't matter. There was a certain quality in his personality and demeanor that completely stole my heart. He also couldn't figure out why, and it began to eat at him, i.e. "why is she with me?" He was miserable, and made me miserable, and we eventually split up.

 

I say the guys who aren't attractive should really be glad some women like something different. And it doesn't depend on how the girl herself looks... it depends on what SHE LIKES, not how she looks. I say guys who aren't typically handsome should stop defeating themselves... stop deciding what the girl likes, or what she doesn't like... let her make up her own mind. You might be pleasantly surprised.

 

I'm really shy, and going up to guys is a big problem for me. But I see guys all the time who I think are hot (for me) but they look away and self-reject because they don't think they have chance. Deciding a girl couldn't want you because of how you look could be a big mistake.

[heloladies21]

Well that's not man hating I detect now, is it?

 

But really though, don't put words into my mouth or misinterpret what I say. Nothing I said even comes close to what you're claiming I said.

 

So you as an all knowing man.

No

 

are going to tell us exactly what women think because you have such a deep an thorough knowledge of how every one will answer.

Yes, I do have some expertise in the subject. I don't know everything in the world, but I do know what I'm talking about in this thread.

 

and how she just a poor confused creature that really needs a guy to interpret all her opinions and emotions for her.

I won't even respond to the first part of that, but as for the second part, this isn't for her, this is for him.

 

Because you wouldn't want to leave it up to the woman to decide what her own ideas and emotions mean to her.

Where are you getting this from? Women are free to do as they please, but what a woman consciously decides is irrevelant to me as far as attraction is concerned. I only care about how she (you included) reacts in this stage.

 

And please, no more man hating. I take personal offense to it. I'm great to my gf and she's very happy to be with me. Everyone's happy for her to have found me and they're all right!

[Miss M]

But really though, don't put words into my mouth or misinterpret what I say. Nothing I said even comes close to what you're claiming I said.

Um, you're also putting words in women's mouths, misinterpreting what they're saying....

As far as advice from women, lots of times it's unreliable. This is not from bad intentions, they do only want to help, but things get distorted because the way things seem and the way they actually are can be two very different things and personal feelings come into play.

 

Like think about this, it's a hard thing for lots of girls to admit that they don't care about looks, even if it's true.

You're basically saying the women's explanations of their/our feelings here are invalid, inaccurate, unreliable, something to be disregarded. I totally disagree, and I say you can't say what someone else really feels. Speak for yourself, but not for others. And don't try to reinterpret the words of others. And if you don't like others to misinterpret your words, then you should also understand why you shouldn't do it.

[CarnelianButterfly]

I don't hate men, I just consider it personally insulting for a man to say he has a better idea of what women want than the women themselves.

[DN]

Moderator Note: A gentle reminder to all members to keep posts on topic and of course respectful.

[onewithbooks]

im sure youve all heard this question before, how much do a guys looks matter to a girl?

and just out of curiosity, do u think i would be considered attractive?

 

Hello all,

 

I found this thread a bit late but here is my 2 cents.

 

For me looks arent a big factor. out of 100% it matters about 10 % ~ basically its a bonus. To me what is important is good hygiene, friendly attitude and a sense of humor. That for me will warrant a second look, add intelligence, a bit of sarcasm, and a "geniune" personality, whooo, that will have me interested and wanting to find out more.

 

In regards to your second question, yes you are physically attractive. However remember that for some women being physically attractive wont matter much if you are an immature jerk. (just for the record, I am not saying you are, I dont want any confusion to arise from that statement)

 

Hope this helps!

LeAnn

[Miss M]

I once had a conversation about this with a girl friend. She was swooning over this very handsome guy who immediately set off all my loudest "REJECT THAT ARROGANT LOSER" alarms. To say I was completely turned off doesn't even begin to describe my feelings of strong repulsion. Within a split second I thought it was blatantly obvious he was the most worthless kind of stuck-on-himself jerk alive. She and I had totally opposite reactions, so we talked about it. I was telling her that I often didn't automatically go after the cute guy, and was asking for her perspective (mostly because it was foreign to me, and I'm naturally curious). Somewhere along the way we got on the topic of discussing the fact that some girls are more worried about whether the guy finds them attractive, than whether they find the guy attractive. She responded with, "Honey, I just like 'em pretty. I could care less what he thinks about me, because I just enjoy having someone so gorgeous to look at. Having a guy who's pretty to look at... yeah, that's what makes me happy." We then went on to talk about what she gets out of being with a guy like that, the downside of being with a guy who was so self-impressed and self-absorbed.

 

But still, neither of us invalidated the other, neither of us tried to make the other person wrong. And we could both understand and accept that our differing feelings of attraction/repulsion weren't reflective of the entire female gender.

 

And one other interesting realization was that we'd probably never be in competition for the same guy.

 

I've said before, while some of you are preoccupied and worried about the girls who don't want you, you might be missing out on the ones who do.

[Kyoshiro Ogari]

Sure hot guys don't get looked at by 100% of the women. But the percentage is incredibly high, otherwise they wouldn't be defined as hot. It makes me wonder why the less attractive are concerned about their looks, if it isn't supposed to matter much, or at all.

[New_Horizons]

Miss M,

 

Could you describe what kind of 'physical ugliness' you are drawn to? For lack of a better term.

 

By the way, I got some more of the "look away and ignore" cold treatment from yet another girl today. We know each other from school, she is definitely not what one would call physically attractive, so why did she behave like that? Beats me! This is the fourth girl (since October 1) I have seen who has done this to me. None of these 4 are strangers.

[Mr Mister1]

Actually when I started working out and losing weight one girl told me to stop doing that because she thought I looked cute with the extra luggage.

[CarnelianButterfly]

Miss M,

 

Could you describe what kind of 'physical ugliness' you are drawn to? For lack of a better term.

Why does it really matter, its subjective. Each person has their own opinions as to what they find attractive. Every person has their own characterizations of what they think is best in an individual.

[Miss M]

C'mon you guys, is it really so difficult to imagine that we women don't all go for the exact same type of guy? And is it so hard to imagine that we really aren't all cut from the exact same mold? No matter how many women are screaming and swooning over the current fav, there's always a large group of us standing away from the commotion saying "sheesh, I just don't get what the fuss is about. Just shift your perspective a little, and you'll probably be able to pick us out. The other thing is to stop doubting us when we tell you this. I would suggest that you stop scoffing and dismissing and reinterpreting what we tell you about how we feel, or else you'll never be able to grasp the truth.

 

Sure hot guys don't get looked at by 100% of the women. But the percentage is incredibly high, otherwise they wouldn't be defined as hot. It makes me wonder why the less attractive are concerned about their looks, if it isn't supposed to matter much, or at all.

KO, what really matters to you?... the percentages?... or that special one and only? Personally I only want *ONE* special guy to love and care about me. Beyond that I really don't give a fig what the other billions of guys on the planet feel about me.

 

Miss M,

 

Could you describe what kind of 'physical ugliness' you are drawn to? For lack of a better term.

I'm not really trying to say I'm especially drawn to "physical ugliness"... it's just that I'm not repelled by what many people consider ugliness. I see charm and grace in the eyes, in the heart, in the soul. That's usually where I look when I'm thinking about a mate. I'm not the least bit interested in someone who is "picture perfect" because that's simply not a priority for me.

 

When I met my ex-husband, my first reaction was a simultaneous flood of mixed thoughts, "wow, he's so ugly" and "wow, he's so nice." I was so hopelessly smitten right from the start because he was (and still is) one of the most exquisitely kind and charming people on the planet. And I was like, "Well, if that's who I like, then that's who I like." (But we didn't last because despite all of that, he also has some serious problems.) We've been divorced now for 27 years, but still very good friends. And if I met him for the first time today, I know he'd knock me right off my feet in the same way because his charm is still just that powerful (which is actually kinda scarey.

 

By the way, I got some more of the "look away and ignore" cold treatment from yet another girl today. We know each other from school, she is definitely not what one would call physically attractive, so why did she behave like that? Beats me! This is the fourth girl (since October 1) I have seen who has done this to me. None of these 4 are strangers.

I'm not clear on your question. Do you believe that her physical unattractiveness means she should somehow be interested in you? If so, why?

 

The thing to realize, every girl that catches your eye is not going to automatically also want to be with you. But hey, that's okay. There's a lot of guys that don't do it for me either. That's not to say there's anything wrong with either of us. In looking for a mate you're looking for mutual interest. If you're not what she likes, or vice versa, it's not personal, and just keep looking.

 

 

Actually when I started working out and losing weight one girl told me to stop doing that because she thought I looked cute with the extra luggage.

I understand that too, because although I find all sizes appealing, I happen to have a very special thing for chunky guys. I've been like this since I was a walking stick myself (5'5" 95 lbs... but I ain't tellin' you the current numbers, so don't ask. Honestly, if I had my preferences all men would be slightly overweight, no kidding. It takes me much, much, much longer to get warmed up to a slim guy. I usually just stay away from them because I have very overwhelming urge to feed them, to try to fatten them up.

 

Miss M,

 

Could you describe what kind of 'physical ugliness' you are drawn to? For lack of a better term.

Why does it really matter, its subjective. Each person has their own opinions as to what they find attractive. Every person has their own characterizations of what they think is best in an individual.

I agree, but maybe if I go ahead and tell them it will help break them out of this rigid misconception? Let's hope, eh? . I don't mind the questions, and don't mind explaining if it will really help, because that's why we're here.

[New_Horizons]

I'm not really trying to say I'm especially drawn to "physical ugliness"... it's just that I'm not repelled by what many people consider ugliness.

 

Yes that's what I meant.

 

I'm not clear on your question. Do you believe that her physical unattractiveness means she should somehow be interested in you? If so, why?

 

 

The only reason I put that in was because there is a general stereotype that 'hot' girls are more snobbish or rude, whereas I see no difference between the 'hot' and the 'average'. Frankly I don't care whether they are hot or not but if they're going to be so judgemental about male looks, maybe they should look in the mirror?

 

 

The thing to realize, every girl that catches your eye is not going to automatically also want to be with you. But hey, that's okay. There's a lot of guys that don't do it for me either. That's not to say there's anything wrong with either of us. In looking for a mate you're looking for mutual interest. If you're not what she likes, or vice versa, it's not personal, and just keep looking.

 

 

No, that's not what I meant. These girls are my classmates and I don't want to be 'with' them in the romantic sense. But I do believe it's courteous to acknowledge and smile at people you know. I smile at them but they either ignored me, pretend not to have noticed me or sometimes just look at me like they are looking at a big black beetle. We all know each other slightly in that we have talked about things in class. Yet they ignore me outside the class. I find this rude in the extreme. But it troubles me because so MANY of them are doing it. Maybe it's my looks. I can see no other reason. They don't know me that well, so the only thing they can judge me on is my looks. I look at how they talk to other guys and they're friendly and polite to them.

[Sheyda]

Well, I've witnessed this happening with everyone; that all people in a certain class would be friendly and chummy inside the classroom, but once they're out in the streets they act like they're strangers (unless they are in a clique before taking the class). They're not all hideously ugly, so that can't be why they're acting like they don't know each other outside the classroom.

[CarnelianButterfly]

Why do you immediately assume its your looks that turn them away? You said they all sorta know you, maybe they just don't like you as a person, nothing to do with your face, they may not care for the way you've acted or something you've said. I don't smile at people I don't like, even if have to share a classroom with them.

[Miss M]

I'm not really trying to say I'm especially drawn to "physical ugliness"... it's just that I'm not repelled by what many people consider ugliness.

Yes that's what I meant.

Okay, well, I'm getting that a lot of guys might think I'm repelled by their looks when I'm actually not? And wow, wouldn't it be very sad (and too bad) if you just automatically passed over a woman who actually did like and accept you?

 

If a guy feels physically unacceptable, and decides that a woman couldn't want him because of how he looks, what does he usually do? ... Look away? ... try to look at her only when she's not looking at him? ... but when she looks in his direction, pretends he's not really interested in her? (not saying you do all of these but at least one guy in this thread has admitted to doing this ). But if you do any of those things, (rejecting yourself on her behalf), to her it can really feel as if you're just rejecting her, as if you're saying you don't want her.

 

So, what are some other reasons a woman can be attracted to a not so attractive guy? Perhaps wit, charm, humor, demeanor, confidence, sensitivity, similar values, disposition, interesting hobbies, spirituality, etc. ... Or maybe she's been convinced she's not really that attractive herself (it happens). Or maybe she really does see another type of "beauty" in people (also happens). Or maybe she has lots of "ugly" male relatives who have imprinted on her that ugliness means affection and love? (hey it's certainly possible. ). Anyways, there really are a lot of reasons, but for many women whether he's cute is often a very small portion of attraction. For many women it's how the guy makes her feel, not so much how he looks. Like my friend said, a cute guy made her feel "happy," but we're definitely not all like her, because that same guy that made her happy immediately gave me the creeps.

 

The only reason I put that in was because there is a general stereotype that 'hot' girls are more snobbish or rude, whereas I see no difference between the 'hot' and the 'average'. Frankly I don't care whether they are hot or not but if they're going to be so judgemental about male looks, maybe they should look in the mirror?

Hey, this is actually an excellent point IMO. Yes, there's that stereotype, but is it really true? It seems you're getting glimpses into the fact that that stereotype really isn't accurate, that you can't make blanket assumptions about women's personalities based on how they look. The reality... there are hot girls who are rude snobs, and there are hot girls who aren't. And there are not-so-hot girls who are rude snobs, and there are some not-so-hot girls who aren't. Snobbery and rudeness isn't really based on hot-ness after all.

 

These girls are my classmates and I don't want to be 'with' them in the romantic sense. But I do believe it's courteous to acknowledge and smile at people you know. I smile at them but they either ignored me, pretend not to have noticed me or sometimes just look at me like they are looking at a big black beetle. We all know each other slightly in that we have talked about things in class. Yet they ignore me outside the class. I find this rude in the extreme. But it troubles me because so MANY of them are doing it. Maybe it's my looks. I can see no other reason. They don't know me that well, so the only thing they can judge me on is my looks. I look at how they talk to other guys and they're friendly and polite to them.

Honestly, I agree with Sheyda and CB... this truly just sounds as if they just don't like you for some reason... or they are simply not interested in being acquainted with you, and not because of your looks. There could be many explanations as to why they're acting that way, and I could only guess at the reasons. But it's easy for me to imagine this has nothing to do with how you physically look.

[Kevin T]

Miss M, a lot of men are VERY insecure. Not believing in themselves, they end up repelling women, not by their bad looks, but by their belief in their "bad looks." Sad, but true.

[New_Horizons]

Thank you Miss M. Your post was definitely food for thought.

 

Kevin T, perhaps the cause and effect are reversed? Most men aren't born insecure (although they may have a tendency to be pessimistic). Life events and a history of rejection convince us that we are undesirable. It creates a vicious cycle. Without confidence I can't attract a girl but I have nothing to build my confidence on.

[TheRedQueen]

A guy's looks mean very little to me, a guy's personality, especially in regards to his intelligence, sense of humor, and perspective on life however, mean a WHOLE lot!!!

[ProtestTheHero]

Miss M, a lot of men are VERY insecure. Not believing in themselves, they end up repelling women, not by their bad looks, but by their belief in their "bad looks." Sad, but true.

 

Yeah, that's the way I am. I'm so down on my own physical appearance that I just don't even attempt to get with girls. I don't even know if it's justified, but I certainly think very little of myself when it comes to looks.

 

I'm kind, smart, I listen, and I enjoy doing those types of things. Unfortunately I have no confidence at all, so all those other things are irrelevant since I never act on them.

[Kevin T]

Thank you Miss M. Your post was definitely food for thought.

 

Kevin T, perhaps the cause and effect are reversed? Most men aren't born insecure (although they may have a tendency to be pessimistic). Life events and a history of rejection convince us that we are undesirable. It creates a vicious cycle. Without confidence I can't attract a girl but I have nothing to build my confidence on.

 

We can't confirm cause and effect. It's simply impossible.

 

But we can put two and two together and infer.

 

It could be argued that genes DO play an important factor in determining disposition, so we can't say they don't matter. I've read studies where babies that are quiet or cantankerous tend to grow up to be maladjusted in more ways than one. But are genes everything? No. Environment is huge. But it's not all-deciding. Maybe a parent or school mates will confirm what the child already feels (either because he is insecure, or this will create new insecurites in said child), and thus his genetic profile is reinforced. Definitely a vicious cycle.

 

But saying it's "all genes" or even "all my environment's fault" is an excuse. Where does the personal accountability lie with the individual? We can sit back and do nothing and complain about how we had a crappy upbringing or bad genes, but in the end, it'll get us nowhere. It's crucial to make a decision to do something about the current situation, and make realistic choices to correct the undesired behaviour. As long as people can sit back and blame everything else, they'll feel it is justified to make no changes in their behaviour, and thus, nothing will change.