Men who can't love.... LADIES - PLEASE READ!

[Juliana]

Guys, could you stop, maybe, thinking that the mental illness these people may or may not have is a personal slight against you?

 

I'm afraid those of you who are not mentally ill are going to have to deal with the fact that we who have been diagnosed with something are just mixed in with the general population, stumbling along as best we can.

 

Longhair, I think the reason you don't hate him is that deep down you know that he wasn't intentionally trying to hurt you. You at least have the option to go out and meet someone who isn't mentally ill. He is stuck with that relationship, forever; it meets him in the mirror every morning.

[sunshine13]

Is CP caused by something other than childhood trauma as well? My situation was just like everyone elses here. He was madly in love with me and then as soon as he realized that I was in love with him he started changing and becoming more distant. Then I would try to pull back and he would leave. He would refuse to speak with me for 5 or 6 months until I started acting as if I didn't care (or really didn't) and then he would come back very lovingly for 6 months. This was a repeat pattern for over 4 years. The last time we were together I explained to him that it was all or nothing this time. Of course it ended up the same way!!! How dumb I was for taking him back so many times! The funny thing is that we love these people so when they come back and act like their life is going to end without us it is hard not to take them back. Then when they leave it is usually very abrubt and we are hurt so it is a vicious cycle. I think and hope that I have finally learned my lesson this time. . . Anyway. . . I know his family very well and I am close to them. I am not sure that he had any sort of traumatic childhood or emotional discord. Anything else that causes this?

[ebsmith1]

He is stuck with that relationship, forever; it meets him in the mirror every morning.

 

That's what it so hard for me. I feel so bad that he lives this and probably feels powerless to do anything about it.

[Juliana]

You're confusing Borderline Personality Disorder (which is caused by trauma) with commitment phobia (which is caused by a rejecting/domineering parent -- we think).

 

Since Borderlines fear abandonment, I don't know how or if a Borderline could be commitment phobic.

[Dorsay]

I do believe that there're more men than women who are not in touch with their emotions. Longhaircats, my friend also wants us to be "friends with benefits". He's definitely emotionally detached. Yes, I think about him all the time because he's sweet, warm, loving and treated me like the best thing ever happened to him. Except, he isn't really there for me. Yes, it's hard.

[Juliana]

eb, it's really dangerous to diagnose someone with an illness unless you're a professional therapist of some sort. It's very easy to pick out some behaviours especially in the heat of a breakup and say that it's this illness or that illness. It's very convenient, because it allows us to point the finger at the other person -- how can we possibly be to blame for anything, when the other person is just crazy?? But unless a doctor has said, yes, this person has such and such an illness, we can't say that with any certainty. "Commitment phobia" is not an illness. It's a trait. A self-destructive one, but a trait; not something that necessarily warps his thinking. Personality disorders, on the other hand, permeate every aspect of someone's thinking and function.

 

Borderline Personality Disorder in particular is a very obvious illness; it has the highest rate of suicide and self-destructive behaviour of any of the disorders. It primarily manifests in adolescence and early adulthood. It's unlikely that someone can get to adulthood with sufficient functioning interpersonal skills to avoid getting a psychiatric diagnosis, and yet be incapable of sustaining a close relationship. I wouldn't be so quick to pull in the psych diagnosis on a relationship.

[ebsmith1]

Yeah you're right. But I don't think he means to hurt people. He may not have an illness, but I don't think he's always fully aware of what he's doing either.

[newvenus]

Juliana - you're right. However, my ex does have all of the traits of a cp and a bpd. I saw him tonight and fell so bad for him. He told me how much he misses me and asked me out tomorrow night. I don't know if he's ill for a fact, but I do have a new sense of appreciation for him now. At least I know how to deal with him now (I think). He kissed me twice in from of his friends (on the chick), which he never does... and he was very appreciative that I was being his friend after everything that has happened. I don't know if I can be his friend (I love him) but I will respect whatever condition (if any) he may have. I won't hold it against him. I'm not sure if I will go out w/him tomorrow night but will think about it. Besides, we were better friends than lovers (we never were physically involved).

 

Something I have to say is that this whole experience showed me that I have an addictive personality too. I'm not sure what to do about it. I knew I had a "go getter" type of personality, but these days I've realized that I'm more obsessed about things than anything else. Knowing this, I'm not sure what to do to help myself. Do you guys have any thoughts on this matter?

[newvenus]

By the way... he just called to say that he wanted to see tomorrow night but that he's terrified to spend time with me because his feelings toward me are too overwhelming. He said that he was afraid to let me go because I was the best thing that ever happened to him (like clean air). He asked for a new start.... and I was so touched! He's a sweetheart but a sweetheart with lots of issues. I told him that I would get back to him tomorrow with my response.

 

What do I do?

[ebsmith1]

Uggghh, I wish my ex would do that lol! I'd go because I'm weak. I think others would have better advice, but you have to do what you feel comfortable with.

[becsj]

I have just spent the past year trying to 'discipline' a guy into being a mature respecting boyfriend, and it seems it's all been a waste of time. He was quite selfish and happy to flirt with women in front of me, but would also tell me he loved me so I guess it's why I hung on.

There were so many times Id have to explain to him that certain behaviours weren't right when you were in a relationship, and he'd just look at me all confused, - this man is 30! I trully believe he never meant to annoy or hurt me, he was just literally emotionally 'retarded'!

We split up 3 times in the last 2 months and each time he'd run back promising all the things I wanted- 'I wont be selfish,I cant be without you, lets get a house', etc. Then Id (stupidly) show interest again and he'd be 'confused' again and 'need more space'. This 3rd and final time I have told him I can't do it anymoe and we have no future, it hurts though.

Any idea why he is being like this??!!

[Beec]

By the way... he just called to say that he wanted to see tomorrow night but that he's terrified to spend time with me because his feelings toward me are too overwhelming. He said that he was afraid to let me go because I was the best thing that ever happened to him (like clean air). He asked for a new start.... and I was so touched! He's a sweetheart but a sweetheart with lots of issues. I told him that I would get back to him tomorrow with my response.

 

What do I do?

 

I might go, but you need to be aloof to his overtures for the most part and force him to exercise some control.

 

Any relationship that hits a bad point does not just fall back together at the point it went bad. You need to back up to earlier points, and recover some ground. So back him on up. Take your time.

[newvenus]

Beec,

I think I know how he's feeling but I don't know how to go about making feel at ease. At this point, I'm not sure I want to have a long-term relationship with him either -- but my heart wants to give it one more try.

 

Should I tell him that I would consider going out with him as friends... that way he would feel less aprehensive to get close?

 

Thanks a lot.

[Juliana]

newvenus, how many times have you broken up with this person? Why do you want to go out with him? He's told you he thinks you're perfect, and you keep breaking up with him; did I read your post right? It is you who initiates the breakups? If that's the case, I'm confused as to what you want from him.

[Beec]

Beec,

I think I know how he's feeling but I don't know how to go about making feel at ease. At this point, I'm not sure I want to have a long-term relationship with him either -- but my heart wants to give it one more try.

 

Should I tell him that I would consider going out with him as friends... that way he would feel less aprehensive to get close?

 

Thanks a lot.

 

You're not going to know how he is feeling. Dating is an investigation, investigate, and take your time doing it.

 

You can go out, some place and talk. See what happens, make sure it's not a date date.

 

With his apprehension, let him chase you, be aloof. If he ahs something to go track down, he will keep chasing. It would be best if you could chase him into isolation. Isolating a person is effective. But that is a way off. Your other way to get him to chase may be challenge him. Challenge his manhood, tell him you don't know if he is the right kind of man for you and tell him why in terms that are expressed so that his manhood is challenged.

[newvenus]

Thank you Beec. Juliana is right -- I have broken up with him couple of times before because I have been too afraid to feel rejected --- obviously because of the way he reacts when we're getting close. He just called and asked if I would go out with him to the museum of science to see the Body Worlds II exhibit. I thought that was a good idea and accepted the offer. He also wants to go out to dinner to talk. I told him that it would be nice to catch up but that I want to keep the conversation light and just enjoy our company.

 

I'm not going to bring up any relationship 'talk'. I'm just going to go in with an open mind and have a good time with him (which we always have). Like I said on my previous post, I have a new sense of appreciation for him and knowing that he's afraid of a relationship or getting hurt (which I am as well) I'm going just going to see what happens w/out pushing him into anything. At the very least, we could continue being the friends that we once were.

[BillyJean714]

I have to agree with Chai on this one. I think he's right.

 

Maybe that book did make you feel better, but in hindsight, everyone has the capacity to love. It's if they choose to or not that counts. Even the most selfish person can love just as much as an unselfish person would.

 

It just seems to me that the guy you were with had issues of pride. He coudln't handle rejection. He wanted you so bad that once he had you, he realized he didn't want you. He just wanted to win the chase.

 

Sorry you had to go through this, but reality isn't pretty. I'm glad you didn't get physically intimate with him either..because that would've been an ENTIRELY different story.

[newvenus]

Well --- I'm more confused than ever now. We got together last night -- went to the museum -- had dinner --- went back to my house to chat. He seemed to be very comfortable around me. I thought I was ready to act "like nothing ever happened" around him but it was very difficult. The drive to the museum was long and all we could do was talk. The 'relationship' talk came up but I told him that I just wanted to have a good time and didn't want to talk about the past. He was fine with it.

 

At the museum, I was acting a little bit distant (but nice) and that really worked. He was touching me, putting his arm around my waist/neck, touching my butt...

 

During dinner, he asked me if I was going home (Puerto Rico) for the holidays. I told him that I was ... and he asked... are you going to invite me with you?! I was so confused!!! I didn't know what to say so my reply was.... "we would have fun if we went together" and left it at that. A few minutes later he asked me the same thing but I didn't know what to say. I think I just said - "that would be nice".

 

After dinner, he apologized for everything he had put me through during our relationship and thanked me for giving him another chance (as friends). It was a heartfelt apology and it really touched my heart. I acknowledged that he had put me through a lot but that I still cared very much about him and I missed his 'spirit' around me. He then told me I was very special to him and said that he loved me (for the first time).

 

He drove me back home and asked if he could kiss me. I said (in a seductive manner) that he couldn't kiss me because we were just friends and friends didn't kiss. He then said that he wanted to get closer to me but asked me to be patient with him. I think I understood what he meant (CP) so I told him not to think about it too much and to just have fun together.

 

He came to my house --- he held me for an hour and then left.

 

I never felt so much love from him.

 

I shouldn't have gone on that date. In my head, I'm not expecting anything -- but my heart is 'pumping' like crazy.

 

S.it!

[chai714]

What strikes me most about your story is that you truly believe he has a genuine fear of committment.

 

I would be confused if a woman would let me touch her butt but not let me kiss her. Guys, would that not confuse you too? I think the question becomes, how can you make him want to keep you around? Aloofness might help and him getting wind of you being on dates with other men might also help.

[newvenus]

Chai -- We were a couple once so the 'touching' thing was acceptable because it was done in a playfull kind of way. I wanted to kiss him (God only knows) but I wanted to keep my distance because I don't want to get my hopes up (not yet anyhow). At this point, I'm not 100% sure that he has committment issues but I guess I'll find out soon. I think I'm more afraid than he is .... I may be the problem here.

 

I don't want to play games with him or anyone but I do have the type of personality that can challenge him a bit.

 

It is so hard because now that I read what I read, I'm wondering if he's in fact afraid of commitment or a CP.

 

He gave me some hints last night about what he wants. He said that he wanted a relationship with me more than anything but that he was afraid of disappointing me. I asked him why but he couldn't say.

 

He told me that he wasn't fair to me during our relationshiop-- and again -- I asked why but he couldn't articulate the reason. I didn't push the issue.

 

Something a little strange about last night was that he had never said that he loved me ... but last night he told me that he did. He didn't make it a big deal about it.. he just said, "don't assume that I don't love you, because I really do".

 

Chai -- I tend to read too much into things and I know I have to lighten up (a lot). I'm trying -- I really am. That's why I'm here -- getting advice and support from people in similar situations than me.

 

Please don't judge me -- I do enough of that on my own.

 

Thanks.

[chai714]

NewVenus,

 

I can understand how situations such as the one you're in can be confusing. I try to keep an open mind and understand that each person has their own thoughts and beliefs. Nobody knows your situation as well as you do and nobody knows how you feel except for you. My personal take on your situation is that you can build relations again (which you seem to be doing) but fear may be getting in the way. A certain amount of fear is healthy but allowing it to hinder your ability to give might not necessarily benefit the both of you.

 

Good luck and hope this works out.

[newvenus]

Chai -- you're 100% correct. The interesting thing about this experience is that I never knew I had a fear to love. I had not been in a relationship prior to meeting him for 5 years. Now that I'm more perceptive of my own behavior, I can tell that something isn't right... and it may not be him after all. I hope I'm not making excuses for him, but I do honestly think that I have placed some burden on this relationship due to my fear of getting hurt.

 

My mother was killed a few years ago in front of me, and being an only child -- without a father -- that really created some issues in my heart. I married and divorced after 11 years and the fear of abandonment has taken over me. I knew I was troubled but because I wasn't in a relationship (getting my feelings involved) I didn't notice the fear as much as I do now.

 

I'm going to follow your advice and see how it goes. I have nothing to loose (I hope).

 

Thanks again.

[dstanzler]

Why did you read that book? The book sounds skewed and biased; naturally, it was written for man-haters and desperate women.

[newvenus]

The book was recommended by a friend. It was well written by a male CP himself. Desperate women ... hmmmm?!!!

[BillyJean714]

After dinner, he apologized for everything he had put me through during our relationship and thanked me for giving him another chance (as friends). It was a heartfelt apology and it really touched my heart. I acknowledged that he had put me through a lot but that I still cared very much about him and I missed his 'spirit' around me. He then told me I was very special to him and said that he loved me (for the first time).

Hi, I'm sorry, but I have a pretty good hunch about these things..

 

First off- talk is cheap. He can shower you with words of love, romance, apologies..whatever..point is-it's his actions that count!

 

Secondly- just because he apologizes, it still doesn't mean anything, because in the end, you're still the person who's hurt, and he's not.

 

Thirdly- just because he sits around and hugs you, doesn't mean he cares. Maybe he's getting over someone else, and you're his rebound chick?

 

Otherwise, if he really thought of you as a GREAT catch, he would've already asked to be exclusive with you.

 

To share a story with you, I knew this girl who was a string along girl..Her story was similar to yours. While she went out with this guy, he used his excuse as a "Fear of Commitment" bullcrap. So while she's thinking they're exclusive, he doesn't, he goes out and hits on other girls. Now that they're together, I can already tell that she's going to get a dumping.

 

Anytime a person says "I'm a commitment phobe", they're basically hinting to you that they don't really care in *that way*. It's just b.s. You have to learn to recognize bull when you see one. In other words, it's a lose-lose situation.