a deadline for proposal and preceeding actions

[countdown]

I'm not sure if this is the right forum for this, but it's a long term relationship and the subject of getting married (or not), so here goes. I am 27, he is 28, we've been dating for over 5 years. We do not live together (I don't want to until we marry). We live 100+ miles apart and see each other on weekends. We've talked about marriage, but he wants to wait because of career/money. This is the same song he has been singing for the last 3 years. Now, just in the last year, I'm getting very impatient about it. It causes fights sometimes. We don't usually fight. He said a couple months ago that he would be ready (for engagement/marriage) soon. I think that this is a fine and dandy declaration, but wonder if he'll follow through. The topic has been talked about to death, and I don't want to talk about it again unless the conversation he is starting is actually a proposal. Every time we talk, he manages to get me okay with things and I think I reset my waiting period clock. I can't do that anymore.

 

So I've drawn a line. Only for me; I'm not telling him about it, because I think that would be an ultimatum, which I am against. If he doesn't propose by August 31, 2007, I'm walking away. I think this is a hugely generous time frame. It will be a "I'm sorry, but you knew I couldn't wait forever. I do love you, and maybe when you are ready to get married I will still be available." I truly feel we are a good pair, and my hopes would be that he thinks so also, and my move will make him think "Crap, she was the one I wanted to marry, I better get a ring asap and try to make this work!" But if he does not come back, I am accepting the fact that I will be moving on.

 

Like I said, I don't like ultimatums. I've told him that I will not wait forever. The thing is, I think it would be unfair of me to pretend everything is fine, and bust out with my apologetic leaving lines when the day comes.

 

I'm thinking about executing a carefully calculated withdraw from the intensity of the relationship over the next year. Little things like having more personal hobbies (doing exciting things without him), seeing friends more (without him), avoiding multiple-hour phone marathons during the week. And maybe even bigger things, like spending a weekend away alone (this is a strong statement since nearly every weekend of our last 3 years has been spent together) or looking into buying a home (in my area). Making it clear that I have a life without him. I really already do, since I don't think people should lose independence in relationships, but I'll be bolding the fact with my actions, if you will. This will serve a couple purposes. It might get him to see how much he misses me and speed things along. The "walking away", if it happens, will make more sense to him. The other purpose is that it will prepare me to walk away from the relationship (in that I will have plenty of things to do and people to see besides him) if that is what it ultimately comes down to.

 

So... onto my question. I don't want to be a mean game-player. Do you think doing the above would be playing games? I want to be fair to him but I also want to be fair to me. Can you offer suggestions on what else someone in my situation could do? Thanks!

[Day_Walker]

Of course you are playing a game, whether or not you inform the other person of an ultimatum, it is still an ultimatum. It can be hard to walk away from a relationship that long and I dont know if preparing yourself in that manner will give you the moxy necessary to walk away from him if he does not give you a ring.

It always struck me as an interesting way to leave a relationship because the other person did not have the same time constraints as you. I can see if he didnt want to get married but he just seems to want to put it off. It may be that he doesnt want to get married and then I believe you are justified in your actions.

[Jayar]

Personally I wouldn't have waited 5 years. When a guy wants to be with you forever and ever it doesn't take him 5 years to know that. It should be done in a year and a half, maybe two. Ask your married couple friends who really are into one another.... She didn't have to beg him for a ring for several years, guaranteed!

 

I wouldn't give him another year of your life. Walk away now. If he values you he will propose to you and won't want to lose you. He'll find you. If he doesn't, then he wasn't into you and he probably would never have proposed (or if he did, he would not have been serious about the marriage).

 

It hurts and it's hard to hear, but the ONLY reason he isn't proposing (though he won't admit it to you because he'd rather lose a limb to a Great White Shark than tell you this) is because he still, even after 5 years, isn't sure you're the one. If you were, he would want to make you happy. If a piddly little ring and some cake and a white dress would make your eyes light up, he wouldn't have been putting it off. When you love someone you want to make them happy.

 

It's funny, because when you think about the WORST economical times North America has ever had... People still were getting married. If career and money were SUCH obstacles, that wouldn't be the case. Career/money are NOT obstacles for a man who is very into a woman. Believe me, if you leave him and he chases you he wants you... If not, don't be surprised to hear he DID end up marrying someone else after chasing her for only a year or two. Not because there's anything wrong with you, but because you are NOT meant for one another. And that's okay. Just don't waste more time!

 

Good luck!

[Dako]

I think you're right to end it if he's not giving you what you want.

That's true of any relationship. If you aren't happy, bail.

 

Sounds so simple doesn't it? All those good times with a guy you love get flushed in an instant, and you live without the support of a good man who obviously doesn't want to marry.

 

Now look at it from his angle. He must have as much to lose as you. He's grown comfortable with you, cares about you and would be at a loss without you, but just lacks your drive for marriage.

 

I'd suggest what most women would find unthinkable, a humilating and wrongheaded gesture. Propose to him, and if he says no, say goodbye. When you ask him to marry you, he'll know this is serious enough to alter his life either way.

 

Just my 2 cents of alternative thinking.

[countdown]

day walker- Thanks. Well, I always thought an ultimatum consisted of a choice to take an action or face dire consequences. He is not getting a choice here. It is my decision, and does not depend on his taking (or not taking) an action. I will be leaving him, and moving on. If he happens to catch me in time and I still feel the same way about him, then great. If not, than that will be fine, too. If I just said I was breaking up with him, would that be an ultimatum? Also, what do you mean by moxy? I guess in the context I would say it approximates "guts". (ha ha, even tried looking it up in the dictionary. maybe I should try the slang dictionary next time?) You've got to consider that at 27 (some say this peak of fertility, it's downhill from here!), a gal that wants to have children is right to be concerned about time contraints!

 

Jayar- Thanks. I have a few married couple friends include a mormon couple (lots of their peers get married young, and no, she did not beg for a ring, he gave her one and she begged to put it off, they'd been together for about 10 years...) The other married couples- one set dated 8 years, one set dated 10, a couple couples dated 4-5. Everyone says that career and money are not a reason to wait, but in our circle, it is not uncommon to wait until school is done and careers are established. We've had the talk about whether we are sure about each other. We are. Just because someone is the one, it doesn't mean you have to marry them that instant. Actually, one of the times we fought about it, he suggested we elope. But my friends and family are waiting for an actual event and I'd love to oblige. We understand that career and money problems can happen any time during a marriage. But he wants to finish his education (he already has his undergrad, this is educ. for a career change), and I can understand that. Plus, I don't feel like I am wasting time. I don't feel like any time spent with someone I love is time wasted. I won't be mad at him for "wasting my time" ever, even if I end up leaving him next year. It has been my choice to stick around and have fun, but, like I said, at some point, a line must be drawn.

 

Dako- thanks, but I've heard that alternative thinking too often and we both dislike the idea.

 

Assuming that I'm not bending on the personal deadline, what do you think of the reclaimation of additional independence through spending less time with him leading up to the date?

[DN]

Assuming that I'm not bending on the personal deadline, what do you think of the reclaimation of additional independence through spending less time with him leading up to the date?

I think it's a bad idea. It is game playing and the problem with the game is that he doesn't even know he is playing and thereforeeee has no idea what the rules are. So he may think you are becoming less interested and it could drive him away from you.

 

He already knows what you want - he just doesn't know when you want it by. So tell him that the relationship is not working for you with this uncertainty and you need him to come to a decision - now.

 

Is that an ultimatum? - maybe. But it is at least a clear and unequivocal statement that cannot be misinterpreted.

[Jayar]

Just to add to what DN said... You must be prepared for him to say something you don't want to hear. And if he does, you must be prepared to stick to your guns and do what's best for you... Which probably wouldn't be staying in a relationship you feel isn't going where you want it to go.

 

Also, you said to me something along the lines of "knowing someone is The One doesn't mean you have to marry them RIGHT NOW"... True. But you seem to be here on this forum because he's already crossing your personal line of what a reasonable length of time is, right? So I'm confused...

 

What will happen if a year from now he STILL says you're the one, but STILL says he's not ready for marriage? Will you leave, or will you extend the deadline? What do you expect will change for him between now and the end of August 2007? Are you going to bring up the subject repeatedly? That could get irritating... Are you expecting him to come into easier financial times? If so, then your year-long wait might be justifiable. But if a year from now you're going to be feeling the SAME as you are feeling today... Well then in my opinion it IS wasted time, if only because you're unavailable to the one who is truly destined to make you happy.

[countdown]

DN- Thank you.

Are you saying I should tell him "Propose to my by , or else I'm leaving."? Because I think that is most definitely an ultimatum, and I won't do that. I see a difference between doing that and me promising to me that I will walk if I'm not engaged by my date. Besides that, how unromantic! I do want a formal proposal and I even want to be a little surprised, and I don't want to coerce him. Giving him a deadline will kill most of that!

 

It's true that he may think I'm becoming less interested, and this may end with him backing off as well. But I will be okay with that. Actually, that is kind of the point of the behaviour, it could go that way, or it could go the other. He does knows when I want it, too. Because we talk about the future from time to time, and we would like to buy a house when we get married, we regularly share (info only, the actual funds are completely separate) our savings accomplishments, and we have savings goals and dates. So he knows around when I'm expecting to get married. He's talked about when we should get engaged, married. He's said maybe marrying next fall would be a good idea. I'm pretty sure (and really hoping) he'll have proposed before I get to the date I've set, but in the off chance that he doesn't, I want to be prepared to leave. Talk is cheap, and I'm looking for action!

 

Also, DN, that kitten pic is the cutest!

 

Jayar- Thanks again. Yes, I am hoping things will work out and we will end up together, but if it doesn't, I am prepared to stand my ground and stick to my decision. The deadline is a promise by me to me.

 

Sorry for confusing you. Let me try to clarify. I'm really here on the forum because I wanted to get opinions on the idea of me spending more time on my own & being more independent leading up to my deadline. I just wanted to give the background about the deadline, which now seems to be encompassing the discussion. I'm not here because "he's already crossing" my "personal line of what a reasonable length of time is." My personal line, like I said in my original post, is August 31, 2007. Yes, I am frustrated that we are not moving on to the next step yet, but he has not crossed any 'lines,' not yet, at least.

 

I'm a pretty goal-oriented person (if you can't tell from my date setting- goals must be reasonable, measurable, time-constrained, etc) and don't like to go back on my word. Even for promises by me to me! So when next August rolls around, you'd better believe I'll be engaged or single, but not in between. There will be no extensions, because often in life, things happen and you do not get extensions. For him, this will be one of those things. There is maybe a second chance try, since I'm not sure how soon I will be dating after the break-up, if it happens. Or if I'll even feel the same way about him after the break-up, if it happens. Maybe I should just say now that anytime I type 'break-up,' you should assume I mean to add 'if it happens' to the phrase.

 

About him coming into better financial times… you know what, I went back and read my original post, and realized that I included money as one of his reasons. That was a mistake on my part, sorry. It isn't really about money for him, it's about the career. I want to be engaged soon but don't want to marry any earlier that Sept. 07 because I will not reach my home savings goal until then. I know this gets confusing, all these dates. Like, why would I give him until August 2007 if I don't even want to marry earlier than September 2007? I do expect him to be wrapping up his 'education, part deux,' which is one major reason I feel that an additional year is fair for both parties. We want to start a family pretty quickly after marrying, and he wants to be done with his education, because while juggling work, kids, and education can be done, we'd like to avoid it if possible.

 

One of the reasons for my personal deadline is that he already knows I can't wait forever, and I don't want to constantly bring it up. So, at any given time between now and next August, if I want to bother him about it, I can remember that it has already been talked about, I have a plan, and I shouldn't worry about it. Our day to day relationship is really special to me and I know it is a great joy in both of our lives. Really, there is nothing better at any given moment than being with him, but I've got to think about the future, and nagging him is not the way to progress.

 

This is kind of ridiculous for me to come here and ask. I guess I wanted people to validate my plan, but it isn't happening and I'm still thinking it is the way to go... I guess on top of being goal oriented, I can be stubborn.

[DN]

Nope - I don't think a 'propose by' date is a good idea in either case. But I do think you can say that you need to know where the relationship is heading because if it is not marriage then you need to re-evaluate it. And an engagement is simply a promise to marry.

 

Two things: his career is important but so is his relationship. The first should only take priority over the second for a very limited time. And an engagement should not take anymore time away from it than not being engaged does. I take it you would be prepared to accept a slightly longer engagement period?

 

At the moment you are being a little passive-aggressive even if you are keeping it to yourself. But it is impacting your relationship.

[Rabican]

If you start withdrawing from the relationship your chances of marriage to him are going to dwindle accordingly. Why would he propose if the relationship gets worse? That will just affirm to him that it was a good idea to wait in the first place, and a better idea that you didnt get married. If hes really the guy to spend the rest of your life with, dont you think hes worth waiting for? I guess guys and girls see this differently because my girl is doing almost the same thing to me. She hasnt given me an ultimatum yet, but it pretty much seems that way. Its a near daily conversation, I say yes well get married, I just havent proposed yet. I want to wait and see how my job is going, and hopefully be financially secure first... if that doesnt follow through after a while Ill just say screwit and take the next step anyways. I wouldnt make her wait too long.... but it baffles my mind sometimes that she wants to marry me, but on the other hand seems ready to walk away if she has to wait too long. It really makes a guy wonder if you want to be married, or if you want to be married to him.

[Dako]

Rab

Good point. It's puzzling how a woman can want to marry you so much she'll leave if you don't comply. Makes you wonder if it's you or just marriage she wants. If you feel insecure about yourself, it presents a disturbing conclusion.

[countdown]

Okay, thanks for the replies, everyone.

 

DN- That conversation has already happened. I asked him where the relationship was headed, and he sincerely wants marriage. He said it would happen soon. The idea here is having a hard line for myself in case it does not happen "soon."

 

Rabican- so you want to marry your girlfriend. You just aren't quite sure exactly when. But it isn't that you are against marriage or not sure that she is the one, right? It's really only about timing. Let me know if I've misinterpreted your situation. If I'm right (or close), that it sounds like you are in exactly my boyfriend's positions. This is good, this is why boards like this exist. Maybe you can help me understand how he is feeling, and maybe I can make some sense of how your girlfriend is behaving. I also bet it is getting annoying that it is a daily conversation. I'm not being passive-aggressive (like DN said) by keeping my mouth shut about it. I'm just giving him a little room to breathe and enjoy our relationship without the constant strain of the "when are we getting married" conversation. That's not so bad, is it?

 

I'm guessing your girlfriend and I both want to be married and believe that our current boyfriends would be great life partners. See, we want both, we want to be married... to you/him. But if the two will never meet (and you saying they will isn't the same as it happening), than we won't get what we want, a suitable life partner and marriage, and we must look elsewhere. It's not fair to say we can't have both.

 

I don't think the relationship will "get worse" if I spend less time with him. The flaw in this thinking is that it assumes that couples who spend more time together are "better" relationships and couples who spend less time together are "worse" relationships, which isn't necessarily true. I know plenty of couples who spend lots of time together but have unhealthy "bad" relationships. And I know couples who are so busy, are long distance, etc, and they have healthy "good" relationships.

 

It's not that he is not worth waiting for. He is, that is why I've been with him this long already. It's that a girl need to respect herself and her needs, and she isn't doing that if she waits indefinitely. I've read other people's posts and saw some people have waited even longer. I don't want to be that girl who hopefully expects a proposal every time a special occasion rolls around, only to be disappointed. I've seen this happen to people, and honestly, they just look stupid. Marriage is important to them, and they are not getting it, yet they keep waiting. Marriage is important to me, and I'm willing to wait, but every week, month, year, it gets easier to say, just one more week, month, year, so I have to draw a line. Well, I'm not really counting weeks and months here, but you get the idea.

 

Remember, the goal here is to speed up his actions and take mine if he can't. I'm not trying to "trick" him into proposing. If time away makes him feel like I'm not one for him, than I'm not. If time away makes him decide to work harder at it or take certain actions, than I am. See, if I'm not, than I'm saving some unknown number of years by doing this. I really don't see that being the outcome, but I still have to prepare for it.

[DN]

The problem for women with the tradition of the man being the one to propose is that they surrender all control of the marriage issue until the proposal is actually made. All they can do is hint or show some sort of impatience. Or resort to a time line of which only they are aware.

 

The man gets to wait until he is ready for marriage and then pops the question. Now the woman can decide to accept or decline.

 

By accepting those gender roles a woman accepts that lack of leadership and all she can then do is complain that he is 'not stepping up to the plate'. But she has already decided she will not step up to the plate and take the lead herself.

 

You have now typed several hundred words about this situation, and spent countless hours thinking about it. You are no doubt resentful towards him for not proposing on your timescale rather than his and I imagine that resentment is impacting on your relationship to some degree.

 

The longer he waits the more it will impact - and the chances are that if he does propose later rather than sooner that resentment will take a long time to recede and could even affect your relationship after marriage and cause damage in the long-term.

 

That is why I think you should become less passive and more assertive in stating what you want.

 

In a relationship the best place to go for information about problems is to your partner. It is also incumbent on a partner to speak up about problems and address them rather than letting them fester.

[Beyondthesea]

Point blank:

 

You don't want to wait anymore, and you've had enough of it. Why are you waiting any longer?

 

Don't do an ultimadum, don't do a waiting period...just leave. You've already waited around for 5 years. Have you ever read the book "He's just not that into you."? I know it sounds like a crude book, but it has completely amazing advice in regards to this situation. I read it once and after that, wouldn't accept anything but the best...and now I have the best.

 

If you walk, and he comes crawling with the ring, you will get married.

If you walk, and he doesn't come back, you won't have wasted another 10 months of your life. Why would he say yes later and not now? That's the real question.

 

I've been in your shoes, and I would have walked much earlier. Whether you go now or later, odds are he is not going to want to get married. If he hasn't proposed by now, he isn't wanting what you are wanting.

[Batya33]

I've read some but not all of the posts.

 

My opinions: first- and this is a harsh one but just my personal view! - if any part of this has to do with having a wedding - a five hour party and perhaps 2 hour rehearsal dinner to "oblige" your family I have no sympathy for your "plight." If he is willing to elope in the very near future - is willing to set a date - and you are not because you want the pretty dress and party and to spend tens of thousands on this party - then you are planning for the wedding, not the marriage and/or you are not assertive enough to tell your family "I want to be married, we don't want a party and perhaps we can have a party within 6 months after we elope." I hope you are planning for the marriage, not for the wedding.

 

Second, if I misunderstood and you would marry him "tomorrow' - i.e. elope, whatever, then I agree with you slowly distancing yourself. You need to protect yourself emotionally, he already knows your views on this relationship and marriage, and I don't think it's playing a game. I do think less time will make him think a bit about what life would be like without you entirely, and that is a good thing.

 

I am all for women proposing particularly in your case where you've been together so long it makes the most sense not for one of you to officially propose but for the two of you to say "ok, we're getting married." If you want an "official" proposal then I'm sure after you decided to get married, he would oblige with a ring, etc.

 

I also agree that there is no "set time" - one year, 6 months, five years, where if someone doesn't propose he's not that into you. I know of couples who have been together for years without an engagement because one of them went through phases of not being sure. They are now married. In contrast I have heard of situations where the couple gets married even though one is not quite ready and that can be a big problem if not disastrous.

 

Good luck.

[mytimewillcome]

hi there... i had the same problem but weve only been dating for 4 yrs... the only difference is he gave me a time frame - he said he would propose in the next year... well i was impatient cause its been so long and since i think some resentment has been growing we always get into a fight at a wedding.. well the last wedding was last saturday and he blew up and said he doesnt want to marry me or see me ever again... so yea, maybe instead of forcing an ultimatum u can just ask him for a time frame like within a year... and then just be patient... i wish i was cause now he hasnt talked to me for a week and i can only assume he meant what he said and im broken hearted now

[Rabican]

Countdown, yes it is a matter of timing for me.

 

Brief background:

 

My girl and I met, and were engaged within 8 months, then moved away from home and got a place together. 1.5 years (to the day) into our relationship it went to hell in a handbasket. We struggled through a month of trying to make it work, and I said no. We broke up and later got back together. Were currently 11 months into our second try. The problem for me was that like 2 months after we got back together she was gung ho about the marriage thing again. Before we even got back together I told her I wasnt even thinking about that again for a long time. Things are going well though, better than before. I love her, want to marry her etc. However I want to know several things one, that we can make it work through the hard times. We coudlnt before, and I was naive to think that love would conquer all, it doesnt. That was my first real relationship btw. Thats not so much my current concern though, I really think we are ok now, we seem to be on the right track. However right now I have uh, not so much in the way of job security. I have a job that pays well, but its a family job so not something that I really have a 'skill' in. I pretty much handle all of the bills and stuff and I dont want to set a date right now, and find out that im out of a job soon afterwards. I dont want to rush getting married, and then have to work, or work two jobs to make what im making now... or try to work and go to school so that I can provide a good life for us if my job falls through. She has a lot of debt which is another thing I would like to get taken care of before spending another 15 grand on a wedding. Granted, we could do the vegas thing, but I know that neither of us really wants that. Another thing that REALLY bothers me though, is how often she comments on us breaking up if we dont get married, or set a date etc. Sometimes I look at it from your perspective, and other times I think jeez, how are we going to make it work for the next 50 years if shes ready to bail now just because she doesnt want to wait another year or two. We have only been together just over 2.5 years so its not like im making her 7 years or something like that.

So where do you go from here... I dunno. I guess I would rather be with the woman of my dreams even if it meant I never married her... marriage is a piece of paper, a legality in a sense... it doesnt make the person right, or love you, it doesnt build a lasting relationship. Those qualities make a marriage last, not the other way around. However that doesnt mean I dont want to marry the woman of my dreams... i guess this whole thing can just go round and round and round... maybe a relationship councelor would be best to deal with this one.

[moonbeam111]

You may want to visit a very good website for women in your situation link removed

[Dako]

Another happy marriage...

 

image removed

[DN]

Maybe she was just taking him home after a rather too happy wedding reception.

[countdown]

Beyondthesea- Clearly, I said I am okay with waiting til the date. Again, if I'm with him another 10 months, it will be a great and fun 10 months and I will not regret it. I don't think you can blame someone for wasting your time, because it is your decision to stay. I try not to get mad at myself for past actions, because regret is a waste of energy most of the time. What's done is done.

 

Batya- THANK YOU!!!!

 

"Second, if I misunderstood and you would marry him "tomorrow' - i.e. elope, whatever, then I agree with you slowly distancing yourself. You need to protect yourself emotionally, he already knows your views on this relationship and marriage, and I don't think it's playing a game. I do think less time will make him think a bit about what life would be like without you entirely, and that is a good thing."

 

I'm glad that someone sees my point of view.

 

mytimewillcome did what I want to do, sort of. It was clearly a more straightforward method, and maybe more painful than a slow distancing. See, if it ends up that the distance doesn't bother him and it doesn't happen for us, that is okay. I just need to know! mytime- did you keep bringing it up w/in the year time frame that he had? Did you guys end things before or after the time frame? Don't be so hard on yourself. I think you actually did the right thing. If he really wanted to marry you, your nagging would not make him change his mind. If you just weren't meant to be, your nagging would make you discover this sooner.

 

Rabican- So clearly we are in similar relationships. I disagree with her constantly bringing up that a break-up will occur if not date is set, etc. See, to me, that is an ultimatum, and after so many occurrences, it's probably been reduced to an empty threat. Maybe you can talk to her about a timeline to get things (like finances) in order. Say you'd like to get that stuff taken care of, and it should happen by x month of x year. And if it doesn't, that will be the end of waiting for that reason. If the time comes, and it isn't taken care of, see if you have another reason. If you do, than maybe you are just making up excuses and she isn't the one for you. Don't forget, at any time in a marriage, you could be faced with the same issues- job loss, debt, etc. You wouldn't stop the relationship to take care of the stuff, you'd have to work through it together.

 

Moonbeam- thanks for the resource, I'll check it out.

 

Everyone- So I started the plan last week anyway (yes, as everyone was telling me not). We didn't talk as much, I was busy. I mentioned a couple hobbies I was going to take on for myself. We talked one day and I said I would talk to him later and I forgot to call. Actually, it was a little funny, because I truly did forget to call. I got wrapped up in something. Then I went to see him this weekend and... boy, did he miss me! I know this because, well, he said so, and also because of the way he was behaving. He was super lovey and would look at me and just sigh in awe. He even asked if I wanted to just go choose a ring with him. I declined, stating that I wanted him to do the honors, but I might send some ideas via e-mail. We'll see where this goes...

[Beyondthesea]

I don't think you can blame someone for wasting your time, because it is your decision to stay.

 

Exactly. And if you feel staying with him for the next 10 months will be grand and fun, and you aren't arguing a lot or anything, all the power to you. I'm glad you're enjoying the relationship!

 

regret is a waste of energy most of the time. What's done is done

 

Agreed 100%.

[tictactoe2006]

Rab

Good point. It's puzzling how a woman can want to marry you so much she'll leave if you don't comply. Makes you wonder if it's you or just marriage she wants. If you feel insecure about yourself, it presents a disturbing conclusion.

 

Awesome quote. I recently went through this with someone who wanted a child and a marriage barely after the ink was dry on my divorce.

[countdown]

So, the plan has been in action for several months...

 

I've been very subtle about it. And I think he barely notices that I don't call or see him as much, because he doesn't say anything about it. Well, I mean that he doesn't directly comment on my absense usually. His behaviour and thoughts about our future, however, are shaping up perfectly. I think it is subtle enough for him to realize that he needs to get on the ball, but not so blatant that he thinks I'm less interested, if that makes any sense. I forget most of the time that I'm purposely withdrawing a bit, but the times I remember are making enough of an impact. The only big blatant thing I did was not spend Christmas day with him. (My family was in town, so I had a good excuse. I probably would have stayed with my family even if I wasn't implementing this plan, so the situation just happened worked out to my advantage.)

 

He brings up our future together much more often now, and has also straight up told me that our future together is his top priority, and that he will not let anyone's career or lease or anything outside of the relationship determine the course and timing of it. I've tried not to bring it up myself, so usually when we talk about the future, he is the one that starts it. In fact, one of the conversations has led to a joint decision to look into pre-marital counseling. We both feel that pre-marital counseling is a good idea for any couple intending to get married. And since we both think that engagement is a promise to marry, and you shouldn't break promises, that starting pre-marital work now isn't a bad idea. We both want to plan for a long, happy marriage. I want him to know that I'll be willing to work through anything, and that I expect the same from him.

 

I'm still going to hold myself to the 8/31/07 date, but it is really looking like I won't need to worry about it.

 

I'll acknowledge the fact that, really, it could all be a coincidence. It could just be that his own decisions, regardless of my recent behaviours, have made a turn. Either way, I'm very happy with the way things are going!

[Batya33]

Watch the feet not the lips - what he does not what he says. Did I miss something or why aren't you officially engaged yet?