ever since I became a "nice guy" I keep getting stepped on, time to revert..

[bluef1n]

I've allways been the type of person who's definitely a true conversationalist, people find it very easy to talk to me, I can focus and keep a conversation flowing whether or not I'm interested and am pretty good at slanting a conversation without making it obvious.. it's what I do for work too, ie customers need to trust me and think I'm competent - I'm very good at it..

 

I allways tended to do really well as far as finding and picking up females, getting numbers, and all that jazz - but I've realized in recent years some things have changed, now it's harder... now I'm getting dumped instead of doing the dumping, sometimes girls kinda give me the cold shoulder during a conversation, I even got stood up by a girl recently..

 

I don't think it's my looks neccesarily as much as a combination of things, I realized something important when I recently made a new friend. One night I ran into a guy that's from my home town that happens to run a little more closer in the local circles.. We ended up ditching the local scene that night and went out to a different busy dowtown area and had a really great time. Since then we've been hanging out alot, he's actually the first real guy friend other than my brother I've spent time with in a while.. I've got alot of friends but typically I'm independent and prefer to run alone.. him and I really just have a good time and pretty much hang out or talk every day.

 

This guy can hardly afford his beers at times, burbs, farts, is missing a tooth, isn't really any better looking than I am, dresses down, is rude, drives a crapbox "work" type of truck.. and he does so well with females it's ridiculous, and not just "loose" females either - every type imaginable, well educated proffesionals, very smart free thinker intellectual types, and of course yes the ones you'd expect like him too - any age pretty much 21-45 I see women taking passes at him sober, drunk, and whenever..

 

I can't believe some of the things that happen with this guy - the other night a very hot female actually seriously offered to make out with him (odd sort of conversation, won't get into it) and even indicated she was available later and he said "sorry I don't like to kiss".. which is true, he says he doesn't like to kiss, but I've seen girls go home with him anyway after he says that. He'll give 0% respect, typical bad boy but I don't think I've ever even seen him give a compliment..

 

He's not embarrassing to me but at times is borderline and even flat out mean but what's amazing is the girls don't mind.. recently this very classy business-dressed 30-something came in who we'd never met before, dropped her purse, I was ready to pick it up and this guy instead sat back and out-right made a comment about how she should stay bent over like that for awhile - and she actually smiled and came over and hung out with us.

 

Then I'm thinking about myself and what I've become.. I went from a very bad * * * punk teenager who got in alot of trouble to a convict.. then I went to college.. now I've become a yuppie!!!.. What happened!!!

 

I never wear a t-shirt out, pretty much am a shoes and kaki's kinda of guy, I might swear, drink, and smoke but when I approach a female for some reason I all the sudden become very respectfull and honest and soft.. I'm allways worried about coming on too strong and I'll talk to a girl and ask her how her day was instead of hitting on her.. don't get me wrong, I get pleanty, sometimes it works but never as well as it used to.. this is clearly my problem lately.

 

At some point I got soft and instead of coming on stronger I got weaker.. girls definitely like nice guys but in the past they never figured out I was nice until they got to know me, now I flaunt it!!

 

Not sure what happened.. gotta find some middle ground.. I feel like a dork all the sudden!!!

 

Thank god I realized it!!!

 

Time for a new after-work wardrobe, mabye a hair cut, a tattoo, and to freakin relax!

 

Anyone know how this change happens, bad boy to dork nice guy? Anyone had this happen to them?

 

I'm 29.. am I getting old, is that it?

[cchurting]

After college, you will feel like a different person. I know I feel slightly dorkier than pre-college. Instead, you should take a look at who you are choosing to surround yourself with...they could subconsiously be making you feel this way. I think you may have evolved...but for all the right reasons.

 

From a female prospective, I love a guy who is nice and has their stuff together. But don't protray yourself as predictable, even if you are. Portray yourself as fun, not boring and absorbed in your career. That could be why your friend gets all the attention from the ladies, because he seems unpredictable.

[New_Horizons]

Wait for about fifteen years and those women will get tired of your friend, realize their mistake in dating jerks, and come running to your arms in 2021. Hey, you've got nothing to worry about! Just move on with your life and be happy!

 

(Note sarcasm. This is what self-proclaimed nice women say, as if nice guys are a permanent fixture or something).

[ngfl]

I went through the same problem and am actually in the same boat as you right now. Going through the bad boy stage was fun and I had much more success in terms of women being interested. I agree with you completely that there needs to be a balance of bad boy/nice guy. It gets tiring putting up a this alter ego, a la Tyler Durden, that treats women with a lack of respect and hurtful behavior. If you let it consume your "real self", you then realize that you are an a**hole.

 

For now I've discovered that I need to be myself, which is a combination of a sarcastic and humorous guy on the outside, with a bit of a mean streak, but once you get to know me, a kind person with a good heart. I like to call it 'bad boy with a heart'.

 

My handle is 'ngfl', which is a phrase that I've seen often lately, all over the web and in various books, with promises of landing all the women of your dreams. In reality, it should be "predictable guys finish last" because in the end, women still want a nice guy and to have a relationship with someone who will connect with them emotionally.

[Dr]

Lol...

 

I know your problem.... You've lost your manly confidence. Something I suddenly gained when i found my first GF.

 

Being nice, polite, caring etc to women just doesn't seem to cut it. Women seem to like the hard nut, rude, ego-headed type blokes. I dunno why but it just seems to do the job.

 

You should try being arrogant again mate

 

Doc

[Batya33]

I find bad boys/arrogance interesting but my typical pattern was: high level of interest/infatuation/butterflies which lasted about two months, then I tired of the arrogance/bady boy because when I wanted to have a sincere conversation and perhaps let guards down that was not really possible. So, my interest would fade (because I happen to have reasonable self esteem so I am not continuously turned on by someone who doesn't treat me with respect) things would end (usually the guy would start to distance himself but at that point I didn't care) and once they ended the memories really didn't linger - I moved on quickly and cleanly. I call it "twinkie love" sweet but no substance.

 

In contrast, my boyfriend is not a bad boy and sometimes he can be "too nice" but luckily he has learned to be assertive and confident (but not arrogant) and knows how to put me in my place firmly when that is needed. While it may not be that level of heady excitement that being with an emotionally unavailable man brings, I am much closer to him, more attached and I miss him more and more sincerely when we are apart. The missing that occurred with the "bad boy" types was more about insecurity- will he call/is he still interested while this missing is based on genuinely wanting to be with him and share what happened in my day or whatever is going on.

[SquareWheel]

Maybe the ladies here can set me straight if I'm off target, but here's my view:

 

I have a theory that women are attracted to two distinct types of guys.

 

When they're single and sowing their wild oats, they seem to be excited by masculine-looking, rowdy, stereotypical bad boy types.

 

And when they're ready to settle down, they tend to choose softer-featured men who are reliable providers and are likely to make good parents.

 

I liken the transition to settling down and trading in the Corvette for a minivan. Guys probably do the same thing; chase good-looking women when they're sowing their wild oats and then look for somebody like their mother when they're ready for marriage and domesticity.

 

I've read studies that bear this out, and they also say that women tend to go for more virile-looking masculine type men when they're ovulating.

 

But my nephew is like the guy the original poster described. He just turned 40, and he's getting portly now, average looking, with thinning hair. Smokes and drinks. He's a nice enough guy, but with a bit of a gruff personality. I'm pretty sure he's never callous or disrespectful toward women, though. Very extroverted, spontaneous and adventurous; bright enough but not a deep thinker. Drives a clunky old car, works off and on, and sometimes struggles for money. Until recently he lived in a dingy older pull-behind travel trailer at an RV park.

 

And women seem to swarm around him. He works in health care, so he works surrounded by women. He says his female co-workers are always setting him up with their friends, and he meets others through online dating sites. He met a woman through friends a while back, they hit it off, and she wound up spending the whole weekend with him. I went to drop off a bunch of old videos with him at his RV a couple of years ago and found him just getting up - with two girls in there with him!

 

My theory is that they just like him because he's spontaneous and they find him fun to hang out with. Probably because he has no visible problems or hangups. He just goes off and does what he wants to, and it's easy to fall in line and go along with him. I've talked to him a little about meeting women, and he says his "relationships" nearly always begin as friendships and progress from there.

 

What do you say, ladies? Would you find a guy like my nephew attractive? If so, what's your reason?

[ImThatGirl]

I liked unpredictable, fun, bad boys when my heart was guarded and I didn't want to risk letting my guard down. I knew I'd never bring these guys to meet my family thereforeeee it was only about the present and excitement. I never would have counted on them. Never would have planned a future with a bad boy.

 

Now that I'm over that stage in my life, I want and have a guy with a good heart. A guy that has his life together, looks put together, is respectful, and successful. A guy that I can plan on having a future with.

 

I think it really boils down to what kind of girl you want. Do you want a girl that is only about that initial adventurous excitement that will move on when it's gone or do you want a girl that is planning for her future?

[RufusDawes]

But i don't want to be bad and assertive and aggressive to women, I like women, I want to be nice to them. Confidence is something you should have within you, it should not be flaunted, people should be modest. Isn't it assertive and manly to say I only want to be assertive and manly if I want to, not because a woman wants me too ?

[Batya33]

But i don't want to be bad and assertive and aggressive to women, I like women, I want to be nice to them. Confidence is something you should have within you, it should not be flaunted, people should be modest. Isn't it assertive and manly to say I only want to be assertive and manly if I want to, not because a woman wants me too ?

 

I totally agree - I don't think it is nice to be nonassertive - that can be passive aggressive but you can be both kind and assertive.

[rocio]

It's not that black and white. There aren't just two types of guys. What women like is balance. We don't want a guy who tries too hard or lets himself be walked all over. But obviously being a jerk will get you nowhere. Try to strike that perfect balance that works for you.

[AntiLove_SuperStar]

no intelligent women in your part of the world then. I don't understand where all these women ARE that like jerks, I know plenty, and they'd all just s.n.i.g.g.e.r in the face of your rather pathetic friend. Don't emulate him.

[Stinkweed]

I think I sorta relate to the feeling. I've changed since high school too, even though it hasn't been that long. It's been a while since I last made someone laugh out loud like I used to all the time (and I used to love my own sense of humor) with stuff I just did at the spur of the moment. I mean, it was ME. Now I've got no friends. I'm unhappy even with my physical appearance/ how out of shape I am. I'm kinda like my own loser twin who happens to be in a bad mood all the time, and gets mad for the dumbest reasons (except this twin at least has a better haircut, and maybe even a better wardrobe). And back then girls were among the top items of my list of non-academic/"social" priorities. Now I just don't care and would just be happy to make friends like the ones I made in my last 2 years in HS (I know their goals/hobbies weren't 100% the same as mine, and back then I wanted to meet people who were a bit more similar to me in that aspect, but maybe it's just not easy to find people of the sort). It seems to me like they are a pretty uncommon type of people to run into, or maybe circumstances under which I met them were favorable, I dunno. I used to cuss and love it, now I don't, but then again people in my school very rarely do, so maybe I caught the habit, or rather "dishabit", from them.

 

I gotta say it's not a change I like in the least, and I can still vividly remember who I used to be in HS and what I would do on a typical day... I mean, some people say HS sucks, but to me it was awesome. Well, at least the last 2 years were. The first 2 I do admit sucked way worse than what I'm going through right now, for which I'm grateful.

[BlueFire]

Square Wheel,

 

Every man has something special, that includes you as well.....you are smart but don't show off to much on the brains. Supprice the lady's on your thinking that is your card to play. I know for a fact that lots of woman like honesty, smart, everidge built, nice smile and spontanious. You have your mouth on the right place make some nice funny jokes and if a girl/woman looks at you you know she might be interested. From there you have to keep the flow going don't weaken.

 

Good luck.

[simba9003]

What makes you feel like you keep getting stepped on, bluef1n?

 

And could you give me some examples of when women make passes at your friend?

[SquareWheel]

Thanks for the encouragement, BlueFire. I always feel so much better after I read one of your posts!

[Dating Coach]

Your friend is fun, and women love fun. You suggest that he is mean but I don't know if I really buy that because the women he talks to don't seem to think he is mean. They take his rude comments for what they are, teasing and flirting. I doubt if he said, "Hey, you're fat but I'd still hit it" that they would go for it, but obviously he's saying things that the ladies are taking as flirting and teasing. That's fun, that's a challenge. Of course these women are going to be more attracted to someone like that then some guy who is a people pleaser.

 

People on here keep talking as if your friend truly is a jerk, a guy that doesn't treat women right, but I don't see where they are getting this. He sounds like he knows how to flirt. You don't have to compliment a girl you meet to be a good guy. That's what the people pleaser does, and that's not a challenge, and that's not fun. Your friend knows how to interact with women, and he sounds like he does it well with good results. If these women don't think your friend is a jerk, then no one including you should be making that judgement on him.

[BlueFire]

Thanks for the encouragement, BlueFire. I always feel so much better after I read one of your posts!

 

Maybe that is the reason I'm here for. Ya never know!

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