The problem most guys having in dating and relationships...

[skyjuice]

Hi

 

Your post was a very good read. Thank you.

[BeStrongBeHappy]

If 20% of the guys are dating 80% of the women, then 80% of the guys would never get married, and in this world most people get married, and frequently more than once!

 

i've heard this argument (myth?) in reverse too, that only 20% of all women get asked out by 80% of the men because men are only looking for pretty girls.... but most women end up getting married at least once, so obviously they have to date someone first.

 

so i think this generalization is applying more to a small subset of the population who are 'players' or specifically seek to date a lot of different people. i asked a guy once who was obsessed with dating as many women as possible how many women he had slept with and his response was, 'not too many, only about 100 or so!' that guy was obviously successful at getting dates and getting women to sleep with him, but i don't think that's 'successful' dating because he'd already been married and divorced three times and his life was a mess! he basically changed himself to try to get women to date him, and it would always blow up in his face eventually because he wasn't being his true self...

 

i always think the best advice is be yourself and get out and try to meet people, because that way you'll meet someone who is compatible with you... you don't need to date a thousand people to find someone (or several someones) you are happy with...

[Dating Coach]

BSBH, I didn't claim that the number was exactly true, it's what I've heard, and as you said you've heard something similar.

The whole point was that a smaller percentage of men are getting out there and doing the most of the dating-which is true. You would be wrong to assume that these guys are all players. If a smaller percentage of men are getting out there and doing the majority of dating then what that tells us is that the smaller percentage of men are willing to get out there and ask women out that they are attracted to, whereas the majority of men for one reason or another are not doing this near as much. I would like to see the other guys become more active so they can have more success in meeting and attracting a woman that he is interested in as opposed to doing nothing and feeling depressed about it all of the time.

 

I see it day in and day out. On one thread I read today a guy was talking about how he hates life because he feels something is wrong with him. He was 23 years old and never had a date in his life. This is very common. He wants to be more successful but is not. Guys like this are common as are their reasons for failing to achieve the success they wish-which I described in the original post. Just as a side note, by "success" I do not mean "scoring" I mean succeeding in finding and dating someone who has mutual interest.

 

I saw a skit once on one of the movie award shows where Owen Wilson and Vince Vaghn were trying to teach a guy how to meet women. Vince Vaghn said something that was very wise. He said, "I can't get every girl I want... but I can get every woman that wants me." Again, do not look into this as "scoring" but imagine it as "dating". A guy who actively puts himself out there and meets women that he finds attractive, then he is going to have success in getting a date if there is any chance that she is indeed interested. Whereas if a guy continues to be too shy or too scared to do anything regarding the woman he finds attractive, he may never get a date with anyone of them.

 

That's what I try to help guys with here. There are so many single wonderful women out there that these great guys could meet and date, yet they allow fear to control them. Because of this he misses many opportunities. I want these guys to work on acheiving their goals and to do that they need to work on opening themselves up and taking chances.

 

You could apply this to women as well I am sure but my thread is directed towards men.

[need2bme]

Dogg: So correct. I had the current ex SO (she made herself the SO and then pulled back). She made herself everything. I heard her mention ONCE (all it takes right) that a lady likes a challange). So, I come forward FINALLY and she has now pulled back completely. Yep, she went from being exclusive (her choice) and mine (her choice) to a break and taking it slow.

 

Dogg, before you get all over me, realize that I was totally standoffish. I kept it simple. She KEPT pulling. I am supposed to start having feelings for her, when she was pulling so hard and keep them to myself, because there has to be some silly game?

 

I can answer that question myself. The answer is yes!! No one wants too much too quick. She thought she did, but she didn't. So, the brakes were applied.

 

Now, I have to be honest, she did say that she just had been independent for so long and thinking about me being at her place for 4 straight days was making her a little suffocated (in fairness to me, this was her idea - but in fairness to her, I went along with it and should have gotten a hotel).

 

Also, she did let me know that she wanted me to stay and hang out the next day and then she could take the weekend off and she would be fine. I, on the other hand, left and went to my friends like a scolded dog.

 

I do want to just see her and get to know her, but my actions told her I was crying like a little kid. You know, fine...I will just take my p***s and go home. ;-)

 

So, she was right and I DO understand. I get too wrapped up sometimes, but crap, it was hard to hold back with her. (give me credit though, I stopped the sex, when we were together before)

 

Just a stray thought: She did tell me she wanted to see only me (before last night) and that I could have girlfriends, but if it ever got romantic, I could not. Also, she mentioned not being able to go places without here (it was in context at the time). So what gives?

 

So, DOGG, now what? Wait, I think I know the answer. It has to come from within. I have to know that what is going to happen, is or is not. I need to realize that I have plenty of friends that are girls, that do not have to turn into girlfriends.

[skyjuice]

Hi

 

Couldn't agree more.

[charley]

I think there is a necessary balancing act that must occur between having sufficient optimism to try, yet sufficient realism not to get your hopes up to much.

 

I'm trying to aim for cautious optimism combined with a "whatever's going to happen is going to happen attitude", and an adaptive attitude.

 

If she's not interested, no problem because there's many other women out there. So it's, "OK. Thanks for your time. Have a nice day." and a sincere, friendly smile before I say good bye and walk off.

 

If she's taken and tells me she has a BF, I'm going to tell her that her BF is a lucky guy and a sincere, friendly smile before I say good bye and walk off.

 

I'm mentally prepared in advance that it I might not get the date, but trying is its own reward (with the proper attitude) and if I don't get the date, I want to end it with everyone feeling good and positive. That way she can still be comfortable and happy. More importantly, I can still be comfortable and happy, which makes it easy to try again next time with someone else.

 

Also, that stuff about not putting the other person on a pedestal is right on. Any time I've put someone on a pedestal in the past, I got so nervous that I couldn't function, which guarantees failure. No pedestals anymore. I learned years ago that the pedestal thing is the kiss of failure as explained to me by male friends years ago.

[need2bme]

Also, that stuff about not putting the other person on a pedestal is right on. Any time I've put someone on a pedestal in the past, I got so nervous that I couldn't function, which guarantees failure. No pedestals anymore.

 

That is not as easy as it sounds. I just had a friend tell me that maybe we want them to fix us. So maybe there is something we think is lacking in us that we need them to be on a pedastel, so we feel better about ourselves.

[charley]

Also, I'd like to say that while I do think DigittyDogs (DD) advice is excellent overall, I would like to add a couple things I know.

 

There is nothing wrong with being friends with women. I have many women friends and those are healthy friendships. Some of them are longterm friends of as much as 13 years. A healthy, equality based friendship with a woman is fine and a healthy thing in my opinion. I'm sure glad that I have good women friends.

 

However, the friendzone thing DD was talking about is another thing. What he describes is not a true friendship based on equality. What he's describing there is more like a pseudo friendship that is not equal. It's more like a master-slave relationship, or a celebrity-groupee relationship. That is indeed not healthy and it's not a true friendship either.

 

However, my friendships with women aren't that lopsided type pseudo friendship. My friendships are equal and caring friendships that make both our lives better. I like women (well most of them) and I enjoy their company as friends, and not because I have ulterior motives either.

 

Also, back to the pedestal thing. I don't put anyone on a pedestal anymore. Likewise I don't want anyone putting me on a pedestal either because I know that I can't live up to that and sooner or later I'll fall off the pedestal.

 

Lastly, while the things DD says about why women cheat or leave a guy are often true, I think. It's also true that some women are just bad people. We need to remember that because otherwise we get into an always blaming the victom mindset. Sometimes a bad person is just a bad person (man or woman) and it's just that simple. Othertimes it's exactly like DD says.

 

That said, I am a fan of DD and I think his advice is helpful and usually correct, but there are exceptions, as I pointed out above. I truly appreciate DD's interest in helping other men. Thank you for that.

[Dating Coach]

Good post Charley.

[need2bme]

Oh yeah, and don't be clingy. Pissed off enough to not do that anyway.

[skyjuice]

Hi

 

What does putting someone in a pedestal means?

Is it about having expectation on them or something else?

[need2bme]

It does mean that you think they are perfect. They love you and can do no wrong. You think that everything is going to be perfect with them, so when you go to fast and it turns them off, your world comes crashing down.

[skyjuice]

Hi

 

Thanks.

[Dating Coach]

Putting someone on a pedastle means putting them above you. It's pretty much acting like they are everything, and your actions would be showing that person that they are better than you. This is a huge turnoff. No one wants someone who sucks up to them and treats them like they are your queen and you are their convienient servant. It shows them that your self respect and self value is low.

[snosie]

Well DD with that photo it took me a while to realise you were a man! But you know women well! So many people need this information, including my ex. I could see, like another previous bf, that i was living up the adoration, but it wasn't right. I let them do it all for me, and I didn't return it. But they don't seem to care, they just would rather be with me. I want them to see that they deserve respect and give and TAKE. But I just can't seem to get the latest ex to understand that? Why is that? And yes we were friends for the 3 years prior to dating, and are now in the same group of friends, so the friends line is true. When I am the broken one, literally, I am a big believer of NC - should I enforce this with him? Seeing i am overseas for another month yet (of a year, i broke up with him in June)

[Dating Coach]

snosie, I'd have to know more info but based upon what you've said you're now brokenup with this guy and he's still catering to you?

[snosie]

Catering - makes it sound very sordid, but yes, he still does me favours, seeing I am overseas and needed some my travel photos that were on his computer. That is what reestablished him thinking that we should be together, and he can't see that i really just use him - I can, that's why I broke it off.

[Dating Coach]

Catering - makes it sound very sordid, but yes, he still does me favours, seeing I am overseas and needed some my travel photos that were on his computer. That is what reestablished him thinking that we should be together, and he can't see that i really just use him - I can, that's why I broke it off.

 

Yes, this is very common with guys like this. He's clearly got you up on a pedastle and likely hopes that the more he does for you, the nicer he is to you, the more time he is in contact with you, etc will eventually lead to you having a change of heart. When in fact this type of attitude usually has the opposite effect and causes the girl to become more certain than ever that he is not the one due to his pushover & low self respecting behavior.

 

The best thing that you can do for him would either be a NC or straight out telling him that you will never date him again and that he needs to move on with his life and stop being such a doormat. It would be very hard to tell someone something like that so probably a NC is the best.

[need2bme]

DD: I decided to go back and read through this original thread. Only this time, I decided to use what happened to me, to put it all into perspective.

 

Without going point by point, I wanted to mention a couple of things:

 

I read again, slower, about the part about other fish in the sea. Very interesting. Sure, I was naive. I am not always, but I was for part of this time. I DID think, WOW, I cannot believe how cool, hot, special (insert adjective here) she was. She was picking me, not my friends. Without making any excuses as to why I behaved that way, I still did.

 

I also thought, how in the world am I going to measure up. Not for long, but the thought crossed my mind. I even posted about it. I was already defeated. Not measure up? What? I have already gotten EVERY girl I wanted to go out with (or at least the ones I got serious about) and most of the time by NOT CARING! They were ALL cuties. So, you are correct.

 

Lets take this a little further. As an adult, I like to converse and not just about stupid CRAP! I might want to talk about literature, plays, politics, religion or whatever. I noticed the "what" questions or the looks and thought to myself, ok, these are things we cannot talk about. Me being "serious" or "fun" not withstanding, these should have been slight red flags. Did I care? No? Why? Becuause I was getting the adoration and attention.

 

Then, she wants me to make the decisions, because she does not like to. OK, is this a test or what? I don't get directly back in touch with her about a "decision" and a simple one at that and she wants to know why I hadn't responded. Clearly, someone who is either not telling the whole truth about decisions or IS testing me. So, I make the decision and low and behold it is what she wanted all along. (as an aside, when we were relegated to a break, she had NO problems deciding where to go on a date - funny huh?) Am I over analyzing? Probably.

 

Again, what did I do. Well I posted about it here. Did I bring it up? Nope. Why? Well if I am honest it was partly because I was thinking, "not yet", but partly too, because she was "so flippin' cute". WRONG ANSWER! As I stated before about something someone stated on the boards, "Watch the feet, not the lips". Don't wanna make decisions...Again, she is on the pedastel with the upper hand.

 

Still, I wouldn't allow a friend or stranger to put me on a back burner or mix words, so why her? So, in this you are correct. I have my own money, my own property, my own sense of humor, plenty of dates, plenty of GFs (exes or not) AND could have had sex with this CURRENT one (had I allowed it). KAPOW!!! Not being vulgar, just honest. I did want to repsect the relationship.

 

If she were, or any of them were, the BEST, the top DOGGIES, then why was the next one great enough to be with? Answer, because they were. They were OTHER FISH!

 

So, getting to the respect part. If I can respect what she tells me, because of yet I have no reason to disbelieve her and tell her that we can see where it goes, that is what it means. Do I stick by my guns. No. I waiver just enough to make her happy. So, I am not "seeing" where it goes, I am allowing her to "lead" me to where she wants it.

 

It is ok for her and I to want different things. It is not ok, for me to change what I believe to make her happy. Also, if what I say is not a deal breaker and it isn't, if I go back on that, I am unreliable.

 

So, if she does the same, is it not my right to let her know that she is not being the kind of person she said she was? Maybe, maybe not. It should be another "red flag" though. One thing I hated about the ex before this one (boy, that sounds weird) is that she would always want me to behave (yes, I used the word behave) a certain way, but would not require that of others. If you allow yourself to be treated as a child, which is what happens when you let someone lead you, where is the respect?

 

Bottom line is that I am old enough to know that I am ok to be tired, scared, bewildered, happy, or whatever. That is my right. The one thing I won't be, is disrespected.

 

By watching her do the exact oposite of what she confessed, told me that she was not the kind of person she said she was. Nor was she the kind of person she was wanting me to be. Usually, what someone looks for in someone else, is some of the qualities they have in themselves.

 

By her making all the decisions on the last date, after deciding on the break and her sniping at every little thing, is in opposition to all the things she was looking for in a man. Also, if you don't want to catch me, don't chase. If you don't want an answer, don't ask. She was in direct conflict with what she said/did, just days earlier.

 

I ALLOWED THIS!!! I then posted here about how I was going to miss her (and I do), how could it happen, etc.

 

OK, so I will take some blame. But I will no longer allow it. There should not have been talk of so much serious stuff in the beginning. I can see how someone needs to size someone up in the beginning, otherwise, why date.

 

You might need to know my religious and poltical views in the beginning. Do I want kids, etc. However, once I answer these, that should be enough. Now lets just have fun and see if we are even compatible.

 

I let myself get blindsinded 'cause I put her on the damn pedastel. That was stupid, 'cause I already have me there. I should be there.

 

I was allowing her to be a replacement for everything else.

 

DD, I like what ya gotta say brother and I will probably be back to post more...

[need2bme]

Dogg: Thought I would share this.

 

OK, so I have been on the down low with the girl as she basically put me on the "down low". So, no emails or calls or texts.

 

So, I am getting ready to go to the gym and my phone beeps with a text. Scares me actually. I look at it and it is from her, stating that we still need to do something she spoke about before.

 

I replied "silly girl" and told her she scared me and asked what she was doing.

 

She called me. We spoke for over an hour.

 

OK, here is where you can beat me up...

 

I let the conversation lull a few times and I did not end it quickly. In fact, I did not end it, at all. So, she got to pull the strings. I know that is what it was, as I was supposed to send a text/email and got no response.

 

That is fine with me, I am just using it to point out that I let her have the control. What bugs me about that is I REALLY was (and totally feel) indifferent. I want to see her, but if she doesn't want to give me that chance, then it is her loss.

 

If she calls me again, this same thing will happen. I kept the call light, because quite frankly I did not want to talk about serious stuff anyway; and who wants to get thrown under the bus?

 

She did talk about going to hang out with a guy friend during the holidays. Whatever. Go ahead. I am not jealous and I don't need to know that. I think she only told me for one reason.

 

Also, she referred to me during the conversation as the guy she is dating. A far cry from "beau" or "BF" as before. Don't worry, I let her eat some of that later on.

 

Lastly, she did end the convo with a comment of what time is was. Even though I said, "OK, bye" and she was at a pause for a second, it was MY BAD TOTALLY. I let her control it.

 

Like I said though. I am just informing you to keep myself honest.

 

I can guarantee you this; it won't happen again. If I do get another call, it will be on my terms. If I do not, again, her loss. Lulls in the phone call or not (hey what do you want? I'll admit I was nervous - damnit!), I am fine with this and she threw herself off the pedestal and broke every word on the way down.

 

If she wants me, she is going to have to make it happen...

[kryptik0]

>>>If she wants me, she is going to have to make it happen...

 

Thats the spirit my man.

[need2bme]

Hey Dogg,

 

I wanted to share something with ya bro'.

 

So, I am in the gym working out with this guy, so we can spot each other. We had spoken on a few occasions about the girl I wrote about here. So, he proceeds to tell me that he was at his apartment on the balcony playing his guitar. There was a party down in another apartment. This hot girlie caught a glimpse of him and went to tell him he was super hot and flirt with him and so forth.

 

She kept coming back for more flirting and such. Some of the ways he was describing how he reacted made me think of what I had done with my girl. All I could do was give him your advice (passed off as my own - just kidding ) and explain what had happened to me. It was amazing how a lot of us act or what a lot of us do when in that sitch. I mean, I am an older guy out of a previous long term relationship, but this is a younger guy with a lot going for him and we both sounded the same.

 

Then he told me about this girl that he works with and how she had not seen her family for a while and how she did not really have anyone here. She spoke about not having any money to get something she wanted.

 

He basically got it for her and wrapped it up all cute and presented it to her all cute and complimentary. Of course she ate the attention up and I think it was cool to do something for someone else. However, all I could think about was how he was catering to her.

 

I did not hear anything in our convo to lead me to believe she was going to or even willing to reciprocate any feelings for him.

 

I am not saying that being nice and true to who you are is wrong. I am simply saying that I can see him doing what I have done. It only lasts so long. Bottom line it is that you have to take control of your own emotions and be strong. I should have told him that he can talk all this stuff about really liking them to me, but to wait to tell them.

 

See, the light is coming on, even if only a little.

[Dating Coach]

TTT for this thread.

[ghost69]

i think a lot has to do with our value system though. many women are only after money and don't share family values. a lot of mothers these days are teaching their daughters the same thing. marry rich successful men. no matter the cost. i think it's garbage. a lot of good guys are passed up because of it. that is why so many young men are single. these women are going for the guys with pensions or their own businesses. $$$ = happiness to them. if you go to almost all other countries, the value system is completely different. they are all about being happy and standing by their man. women in the US jump from one man to what they think is a better man. regardless of their personality. dont' get me wrong, some women in the US are all about happiness with the $$$. they are just hard to find these days.

[Dating Coach]

Ghost, I don't think you really read the thread, because if you did you'd have seen the answer to those points within it.

 

The whole point was describing the faults most guys make in the dating world, primarily among them guys who have a lower sense of self respect and self value. If you come accross a money grubbing woman then a self respecting guy would never fail with her because she in fact failed by being that way. He'd friendzone her. The naive guys in the dating world whom I address here might continue to tail after these women despite seeing the kind of disprespect and selfishness those types of women demonstrate. This thread is meant to help men like this recognize their problem and work towards dealing with it. Trying to place their failures upon "golddiggers" in no way addresses the problems that plague 80% of men out there, and thus is a pointless thing to do.