The problem most guys having in dating and relationships...

[Dating Coach]

The naïve guy in the dating world…

 

I’ve heard tale that only 20% of young men are succeeding with 80% of the young women out there, and it likely has a ring of truth to it. Why does this seem to be the case? Is this because that 20% of young men are jerks and that young women are attracted to jerks? This is the excuse that we usually hear but do you actually buy into that? I don’t, and I will explain why.

 

I have been involved in the dating scene for a long time and I have been working with men and relationships via online forums, discussions, face to face conversations, etc for at least 4 years. What I see and what I have learned is that the vast majority of relationship situations seem to follow certain patterns and trends.

One pattern by itself isn’t usually enough to figure out exactly what’s going on in a given situation, but when you see several patterns that all follow the trend you can get a pretty good idea of what is going on, even without knowing the situation personally. You might find an exception to the rule here and there, but when multiple patterns all follow a certain trend (and they usually do) then I have learned to dissect such scenarios with very high accuracy.

 

There are many things that men typically do wrong in relationships & dating which cause them to remain single and/or get used & discarded by their partner.

 

What I will focus on first is how naïve guys can be. I cannot even begin to tell you how naïve most guys are. I couldn’t name how many times I have seen a scenario where a guy asks for help regarding a girl and his story begins with things like, “OMG she is so incredible! She is so smart, so nice, we have a lot in common, we talk all of the time for hours on end, she tells me that she doesn’t know what she would do with out me, I love her, etc” and then they lead into the problem they are having. The problem could be about asking her out, going into how she has been distant in their relationship lately, how the ex boyfriend came back into the picture, she doesn’t know what she wants, she’s not ready for a relationship, she’s been hurt, etc. It doesn’t matter. When I see the story start off like this, I already see one of those trends developing.

As I mentioned, the trends tend to follow the same pattern with very few exceptions. When a guy starts off by trying to tell everyone how great and amazing the girl is, I already see their inexperience and how naïve they are-especially when they cannot move on from the girl. When this is the case, the next trend tends to be that it doesn’t work out.

 

I could point out over 100 stories from guys who think that their crush is the best girl on the planet and how they couldn’t imagine going on without her. Just from my little view I see this same story all of the time and it really is a naïve/immature way of looking at things. Being this naïve and immature very likely plays a role in why the girl isn’t hooking up with the guy, and as such, this naïve mindset needs to be addressed.

 

For one, the girl isn’t the best girl in the world. That whole point of view is skewed and it is fueled by infatuation and immaturity. If there are countless guys claiming that their girl is the best, then are all of these girls the best? Or is everyone wrong but you? Or is it instead that there are PLENTY of fish in the sea that you could be equally attracted to and the problem lies with the guy himself? Trust me, it is the latter. However these naïve guys don’t see it this way. They see this one girl as the one, and most of the time they haven’t even dated her yet. Not only that, but most of the time the girl isn’t even interested in him. Does he respect her decision and move on? No, he shamelessly disrespects her decision, disrespects his feelings, and makes an utter fool of himself by continuing to try and change her mind rather than move on. He does this all because she is so great and different, and in many cases has wasted years of his life by doing this.

 

The fact is that she is not different. She is just as good as many other women out there no matter how much his childish infatuation tells him otherwise. He does himself a huge disservice by clinging to this flawed and immature mindset. But that’s not all. This infatuation, this placing of her on a pedestal, this worshipping also builds the foundation for failure. You see these failures come to fruition when guys like this somehow manage to secure a relationship with his crush.

 

You see, a successful adult relationship requires two mature and equal individuals whom have equal amounts of respect for each other. When one partner enters the relationship while placing the other upon this pedestal they create a small hierarchy with their crush on top. Things aren’t equal, it’s all about the person on top and what he can do to please her, make her happy, make her love him, etc.

Unfortunately this formula only works in the movies. In the real world in order to get respect you must not only give it, you must demand it in return. If you do not and you only try to respect your partner while ignoring the disrespect given in return, you create a situation where they can disrespect you freely. And they will continue to do so because they can, because you are too weak to put an end to it.

What does this weak behavior cost you? It costs you your partners respect, and without their respect you cost the relationship it’s future. If your partner doesn’t respect you then they are not “in love” with you. A relationship lacking love, lacking that chemistry, lacking that challenge will inevitably fail. The person who lacks that love for their partner will inevitably be lured elsewhere. I see it all of the time.

 

This is why those naïve guys have so much trouble. A girl who fails to see this weak guy for whom he is and ends up being in a relationship with him before learning about his immaturity, the trends show that she will inevitably become distant, sometimes angry, sometimes take advantage of him, etc. Any self respecting guy would end the relationship at this point, but these guys do not. They cling because this is their pedestal woman. It doesn’t get better than her (in their naïve mindset) so they continue to humiliate themselves by clinging to her harder than ever-which is the very reason she became distant to begin with. Inevitably it will end, sometimes with her having cheated or having found another man first.

 

Now if the girl picked up on these naïve behaviors from the beginning and wasn’t attracted to him for his weakness, most of these guys continue to cling to her like the above guy did. They continue to waste time, continue to follow her around, continue to hope that she will change her mind. But she won’t, and nor should she. There is nothing attractive about a guy who has such low self value where he throws himself desperately at someone. Happiness comes from within. These guys can’t find it by placing the burden on someone else. No girl wants that burden nor will find a guy like this to be attractive. At least not for long.

 

In order to be attractive to someone else, you must not only believe that you are worthy, but you must act like it as well. A guy who is worth something wouldn’t cling to a girl who rejected him. Think about it from her perspective. She just told a guy that she wasn’t interested and all he did with that rejection was continue to want her and vie for her attention.

Did he demonstrate any self value? No. If he doesn’t have it then how is she supposed to see it? A person who had self value and self respect would not continue to throw himself at someone who didn’t want him. He would move on.

The same goes for the guy who is in a relationship. If his girl does cheat or disrespect him, would a man of self value ignore this and plead for her to come back? She had just committed the biggest insult to him possible! His reaction is to want her back? That shows just how little the guy thinks of himself and even if she did come back the relationship is doomed because no one will be happy in a relationship with someone who thinks so little of themselves.

 

When you see 20% of the young men out there getting 80% of the young women, what you end up seeing is the other 80% of guys as her “friend”, as the naïve guy who continues to go after the girl despite her rejection. You see this other 80% of men being the guy who lets his girlfriend walk all over him, disrespect him, and eventually cheat on him with one of the other 20% of guys out there.

 

This isn’t about “scoring”, this is about happiness, and you can’t have it by having so little self respect and being so naïve.

 

Guys need to grow up. The vast majority of guys out there live in fantasy land. They have no idea how it really works and they believe that all you need in a relationship is to kiss the hind end of a girl. There is nothing fun for a girl with a guy who kisses her rear all day. She’s going to end up finding her fun elsewhere.

 

So how do you avoid being this pushover? How do you become one of the successful 20%? It’s not hard at all. All it takes is growing up and learning that you should respect yourself first and foremost. Respecting yourself means that you do not tolerate people using you. Respecting yourself means pursuing your goals. I’ve heard that if you want to avoid the friendzone then you must refuse to go there from the very beginning. If you start getting friendzoned then pull the brakes, make it clear where you want this to go. If you still head in the friendzone direction with someone, call it off. Move on. Don’t ever settle. Think about yourself, otherwise you will end up being unhappy.

 

What are young women looking for? Women will tell you a lot of things, but what women respond to are confidence, self respect, challenge, and fun. If you refuse to settle and you make it clear you will not go into friendzone, nor be taken advantage of, you already demonstrate the first three. The only other thing left is to be fun.

 

Fun does not involve sitting down with her and talking about your relationship, where you want it to go, how she is the best thing since sliced bread, etc. Fun is more about DOING. You want her to be your girlfriend? Don’t talk to her about it, ask her out on a date without telling her how much you like her, then go on the date and have FUN. Do this and keep directing the relationship toward your goal through actions, not through words.

 

That is one of the most common problems I see with the other 80% of guys. All they do is talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, and more talk. There is no fun in this. It’s time to stop talking and start doing. Take the lead, start planning things, start doing things, and no more talk about it. No more asking if it’s okay. DO IT. If you start talking then she will run you in circles. She expects you to be in the drivers seat, not the passenger seat.

 

To make things fun, flirt with her, tease her about stuff, keep things light and fun, take her on dates while making sure she knows it’s a date. Take the lead, do things. Before you know it you two will be a fun happy couple. If she betrays something, or disrespects you, it goes back into what I mentioned before. You must stand up for yourself and demand that she respects you, even if it costs the relationship. If she does it while disregarding your feelings, you must end it. If you do not then you only teach her that she can do this to you and get away with it. It will happen again and again until she has lost enough interest in you and leaves on her own.

 

I’ll leave it here for now and take questions.

[lanty3]

that was great , DiggityDog ,inspiring even.

[emptychipbag]

hmm. That sounds like too much stress and work. I think I'll just remain single forever.

[melrich]

That sounds like too much stress and work.

 

LOL..."The problem most people have with dating advice."

 

I get a similar feeling when people tell me what's wrong with my golf swing.

 

Anyway I think what Diggitys saying is be yourself and have fun. Too easy.

[emptychipbag]

Anyway I think what Diggitys saying is be yourself and have fun. Too easy.

 

Oh. I'm an expert at being myself and having fun. A certified expert. Great advice Diggity!

[ScreenagerX]

Uh huh!!! I see now.

 

Very good there DiggityDogg, I'm impressed. Good timing to by the way too, well for me anyway. Thanks!!!

[now_better]

good advice. i forwarded this to a friend too.

[Fivek]

This is SUCH good advice. Hats off to you, DD.

 

Where did you get the percentages from? I am curious because as I am sure most male ENA'ers agree there are lots of times when we see guys hanging out with a couple of girls. I used to always believe they "had it," while I "lacked it." Could it be possible that they're part of the 80%? I myself don't have a lot of female friends (which at first I used to count as a curse, but have accepted that its more of a blessing as I'm not attracted to any of them).

[traz]

Alot of this is true, and I see alot of myself in it all. Or at least, how i used to be.

 

I signed up on these forums about 2 years ago I think, maybe a little less, and I used to be quite like this. Not everything applied to me, but alot of it did. The last few paragraphs exactly...as a guy, you MUST respect yourself and know what you're worth, and if a girl doesn't show the right amount of respect, you MUST be able to call her on it, even though it'll risk things about the relationships. Otherwise you go down a bad bad path.

 

Good post

[Dating Coach]

This is SUCH good advice. Hats off to you, DD.

 

Where did you get the percentages from? I am curious because as I am sure most male ENA'ers agree there are lots of times when we see guys hanging out with a couple of girls. I used to always believe they "had it," while I "lacked it." Could it be possible that they're part of the 80%? I myself don't have a lot of female friends (which at first I used to count as a curse, but have accepted that its more of a blessing as I'm not attracted to any of them).

 

The percentages are nothing scientific, I've only read them somewhere so I doubt they are exact. That doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of guys are the ones who are dating the least amount of women. A smaller percentage of guys date girls all of the time. Each week they could have a new girl if they wanted. most guys can't do that. Most guys could go a year or more without a single date.

[Dating Coach]

Uh huh!!! I see now.

 

Very good there DiggityDogg, I'm impressed. Good timing to by the way too, well for me anyway. Thanks!!!

 

Would you like to share your story?

[ScreenagerX]

Would you like to share your story?

 

Not really much of a story really & there are other factors involved but having just come out of an 11 year relationship I was somewhat concerned that I might just latch onto the next girl that walked past. After reading your post I realised that even with that knowledge that I might do it I hadn't actually noticed that I'd already gone & done this.

 

Basically I had just sort of started talking with a girl (after 15 years of not having seen her) that I had been infatuated in college with. At first all was well, she was single I was single, we flirted a bit & what-have-you. She knows how I feel about her & I thought she felt the same but things have deteriorated into the 'friendzone' since then but I was still hanging on for grim death. Funnily enough its somewhat of a repeat excercise from college except in college I broke up with two other women to pursue her only to be given the friends speech.

 

DD, I think you may have saved me somewhat from following her along like a lost puppy. Time to move on.

[emptychipbag]

A smaller percentage of guys date girls all of the time. Each week they could have a new girl if they wanted. most guys can't do that. Most guys could go a year or more without a single date.

 

 

yep. My brothers wifes 20 year old brother has a new girl with him EVERY weekend and he doesn't do anything,.. they just come to him. And he keeps his hands to himself and they're all over him,.. and he just considers them friends.

 

And I'm 25 and never even had a single girlfriend my entire life.

[Dating Coach]

yep. My brothers wifes 20 year old brother has a new girl with him EVERY weekend and he doesn't do anything,.. they just come to him. And he keeps his hands to himself and they're all over him,.. and he just considers them friends.

 

And I'm 25 and never even had a single girlfriend my entire life.

 

Have you evaluated why that is? Unless of course it is a conscious choice.

[grymoire]

As always it's a great post Diggity.

 

One question for you.... Usually when a girl rejects a guy and says "I am not interested in a relationship with you.. I only appreciate you as a friend". Does she really mean about being friends? Is she being genuine about it or is it only to soften the blow?

 

You have repeatedly mentioned that the guy should back-off from the girl after the rejection. Is this the right thing to do even if the girl genuinely wants the guy's friendship? How is it even possible to find out whether the girl really means it or just saying to let down the guy easy?

[Dating Coach]

As always it's a great post Diggity.

 

One question for you.... Usually when a girl rejects a guy and says "I am not interested in a relationship with you.. I only appreciate you as a friend". Does she really mean about being friends? Is she being genuine about it or is it only to soften the blow?

 

You have repeatedly mentioned that the guy should back-off from the girl after the rejection. Is this the right thing to do even if the girl genuinely wants the guy's friendship? How is it even possible to find out whether the girl really means it or just saying to let down the guy easy?

 

I think it depends on the situation. If you are already good friends with her then she likely still wants to keep you as a friend, the only problem is that this is not a good plan for the guy. This does not mean he cannot be friends with her but I believe that in the vast majority of the cases, by continuing to hang out with the girl after a rejection like this only keeps him from moving on. He is still in his infatuation stage, his crush stage, and just because she said that she isn't interested doesn't mean he's going to go straight from crushing on her to being like, "Oh okay, well that's that!". Unfortunately by continuing on as normal he doesn't change his situation at all. This is very unhealthy and will end up negatively effecting the friendship when he is still in puppy love state with her.

 

Once a girl rejects a guy like this, he should initiate "no contact" at least until he can firmly move on and give up hopes that it can somehow work out.

 

Now if you barely know the girl at all and she says this, she's simply not interested and is letting you down easy by telling you she wants to be friends. If you're not even friends yet then how can she mean it? If she actually does mean it, then it's still not a good idea for the guy because he's basically getting closer to his crush who's not interested in him, and there is no reason to do this. It's basically like walking into a trap.

[grymoire]

That is spot-on! Thanks Diggity!!

 

Okay while I have 1 more question. Rejection is not fun. What is the best way to handle rejection? A guy asks a girl out on a date and she says "no". Now we know that people have choices and are free to choose who they want to date. Yet the rejection hurts! It's like being invalidated. It's not true but that's how it certainly feels. So what exactly should a guy think after being rejected? Also what goes on in the mind of the girl when she rejects a guy? Will she lose respect for the guy because she rejected him? How will she view him after rejecting the guy? I think he will go down in her eyes because he becomes someone that she rejected.

[Dating Coach]

That is spot-on! Thanks Diggity!!

 

Okay while I have 1 more question. Rejection is not fun. What is the best way to handle rejection? A guy asks a girl out on a date and she says "no". Now we know that people have choices and are free to choose who they want to date. Yet the rejection hurts! It's like being invalidated. It's not true but that's how it certainly feels. So what exactly should a guy think after being rejected? Also what goes on in the mind of the girl when she rejects a guy? Will she lose respect for the guy because she rejected him? How will she view him after rejecting the guy? I think he will go down in her eyes because he becomes someone that she rejected.

 

The problem with this is your state of mind. You are worried about being "invalidated" but that just shows you are seeking approval. You shouldn't need approval from anyone. If you know you are a good guy and a girl rejects you, then it's "her loss" for not being bright enough to see what she's missing. You don't have to flaunt that attitude in front of anyone, but if you think to yourself that you don't need anyone's approval because you know you're a good guy, then a rejection is more like you eliminating them from dating you because they aren't smart enough since they can't see what they're missing.

[grymoire]

Awesome man!

 

It's certainly her loss....

[holyohio]

Replace naive with "insecure, with low self esteem and no confidence" and I agree with you 100%.

 

There is a huge discrepancy between what actually attracts females and what hollywood and the media say attracts females. This confuses the guys with little or no experience and low self-worth.

 

That said, I think the title is a little bit of a misnomer. These guys don't really have problems with dating/relationships as they are usually stuck in the friends zone. They just have very unhealthy obsession/infatuation with certain women.

 

I will use the Patented HolyOhio Rockstar Analogy:

 

If you were a celebrity, which fan would you rather hang out with?

 

The one that constantly pesters you, screams for your attention, begs for your autograph, cannot speak in a tone of voice lower than 120 decibles and offers to do all kinds of things for you at the drop of a hat?

 

Or the one that meets you in a bar, casually introduces themselves, buys you a drink, chats you up a little bit, bids you adieu, and leaves?

 

Which one would you respect more? Which one would be pleasing to spend time with?

 

There is a lot to be said about how creepy and annoying it is when a guy gives a girl way too much attention and "puts her on a pedestal".

[tylercdurden2004]

I will use the Patented HolyOhio Rockstar Analogy:

 

If you were a celebrity, which fan would you rather hang out with?

 

The one that constantly pesters you, screams for your attention, begs for your autograph, cannot speak in a tone of voice lower than 120 decibles and offers to do all kinds of things for you at the drop of a hat?

 

Or the one that meets you in a bar, casually introduces themselves, buys you a drink, chats you up a little bit, bids you adieu, and leaves?

 

Which one would you respect more? Which one would be pleasing to spend time with?

 

There is a lot to be said about how creepy and annoying it is when a guy gives a girl way too much attention and "puts her on a pedestal".

 

How about neither.

[wlfpack81]

Deleted by user

[Johnathan]

I nominate that as Post of the Year.

[Superfreak]

That was a pretty good piece. Particularely the parts about taking action which is far more important for men than women as it's practically always our role to take the first step (which may not be fair, but it's true nonetheless).

 

However, one reservation is I have about this article is it viewing "talking" in a negative light. Although it's true that in the beginning things should be kept very light and fun and you should tease her and not be too serious, eventually in a relationship, I'd say around the 6-10 dates mark you need to start being more open to talk about things which are more seirous. When you're a few months in to the relationship regularely having serious talks about what is and isn't going right in a relationship is very important for a healthy relationship.

 

Overall the most important messages to take from that post is that you should be up front about your intentions towards a girl from the get-go rather than trying to get with her "through a backdoor" (i.e friendship) which never works. That when a girl has given you a firm rejection move on and don't entertain any fantasies of winning her over. That you should keep things light and fun and definitely not even think that you're in love with someone before you've so much as dated them, and that there's alot of guys out there that are in your shoes and are just as clueless so the sooner you realize there's plenty of eligible women out there provided your willing to ask them out, the sooner you can join that elite "20%".

[Siriana]

There is nothing worse than a guy who is constantly hanging around me after I politely rejected him with that famous line: I like you as a friend, but I am not interested in dating you.

And he is not a friend, of course. He is asking you where you went out, with him, beeing offended when you don't have time for him, jelous when you go on a date.... (and he thinks he's good at covering that by playing "cool")

 

I recently had a guy like that in my life. It makes me puke, really. Like I want to be a friend with a guy who is into me! Yeah, how realistic, that would work perfectly! It is really just a line to say nicely get lost I am not interested in you. I don't feel attraction. It would be rude to say to him: no, I have no intention dating you and I don't want you to call me anymore.

 

It is good advice diggitydogg and it aplies to man and woman.

 

If you have a crush on someone and he's not into you - just back off! Thinking that this person is the only one for you (and you're not under 16) is so immature.