What inspired her to do a complete 180? (long)

[Johnathan]

Hi all,

First I need to say that I'm picky. Sure, I've settled for mediocrity in the past, but It almost never happens that I find a girl I'm passionate about who is equally as passionate for me. So, even if it's just dating, it crushes me when they have a change of heart. And it never helps when they've been infatuated with me only to pull a complete 180.

 

THE STORY (skip to bottom if you want the question):

 

She caught my eye at a wedding reception I was working at in March (I'm a videographer). The whole Hollywood thing happened where time slows down and my heart rate speeds up. Shes a caterer of all things, and she awed me 10x more than all the bridesmaids put together. So naturally I chat with her, we go about our business, and I get her digits right before I leave.

The first date is awesome. We connect beautifully. She's jawdropping gorgeous and has the most down to earth personality just like myself. From there, the dates are all just as sweet. 3rd or 4th date comes and we're getting physical and passionate, getting connected...pure heaven, right?...like nothing I've experienced in half a decade. She wants to plan things with me that are months away. She's a 10 in my book. She tells me I'M a 10 in her book. WOW. The best relationships on earth start out with that feeling shared mutually, right? I take her to an NBA playoff game a few hours away in Sacramento, something she (and I) always dreamed of doing long before we met. It was probably the best day of my life since the turn of the millennium.

Here's the catch. She's a long-time established caterer. Which means when it's busy she works an insane amount of hours every week and likes it (and the paycheck). From the start, she tells me it has been an issue in the past with guys, but I'm cool with that, right? I'm so into her I could never get impatient with that, right? I was a caterer a few years back so I know how busy it gets. The busy season (for weddings) starts in spring-late spring. So "naturally" I start hearing from her alittle less. I start getting a few less returned calls. Seeing her is now down to 1-2x a week. We're still talking on the phone every day, albeit beifly, and she assures me it's all because of the demands of her job and to be patient with her.

 

Well here's where it starts sucking. I was leaving for Europe (2 week vacation) and so I let her know I really want to see her before I leave. As the trip nears, it starts looking less and less like I'm gonna see her before I leave. I slip up, get alittle upset that we haven't seen each other, and the 3 days before I leave she has pretty much gone phantom on me. I manage to get her on the phone the night before I get on the plane, and I rehash the same junk about wanting to see her that night. She makes an excuse, says she'll call back to let me know, and never does. I leave on my trip in total turmoil.

 

2 weeks later, I get back, I tell her I'm back, and nothing. Finally I text her boldly:

Me: "If I need to take the hint, you need to tell me instead of giving me the silent treatment"

She finally responds: "It wasn't working out for me. Sorry."

Me: "I can't believe people lie about feelings like that!"

Her: "I didn't lie about anything! I just became uninterested"

 

So I'm devasted. Naturally I send her several more non-hostile, friendly texts telling her how I feel. no response. That's where I am now. She didn't care that I was leaving on the trip, and doesn't care that I'm back. So much for "abscence making the heart grow fonder".

I'm not faultless here. I did lose patience with her for basically having a very busy job and I got insecure over her not returning stuff the moment I wanted it returned. That gradually turned her off to me. I have texted her telling her I screwed up with that but I have gotten no response in a week. Looks like she's done completely.

 

THE QUESTION:

There is a fine line between someone being genuinely busy and someone using the guise of business to distance themselves from you. What sucks is how easy it is for them to pull both if they lose interest!

1 important thing...she had gotten out of a 2 year relationship back in like January and told me she's looking for a "companion" not a boyfriend and that she needed time to herself. Now before you go saying 'FLUKE', she was telling me this crap WHILE we were hitting it off! I also texted her telling her that I can't find it in myself to take her for granted like a few of her past boyfriends.

I don't know if this can be salvaged through NC because I don't know if she A) got repulsed at the end by how desperate I became, B) had gradually started to lose interest, viewing me as the 'boring nice guy who will always bend to her will', C) met another guy recently, D) A and B, or E) all of the above.

 

Sorry this is so long. I can't write about this kind of stuff without it being long. Not sure if this should be in the dating or breaking up forum but I put it here because that's what it feels like.

[Scout]

I'm not faultless here. I did lose patience with her for basically having a very busy job and I got insecure over her not returning stuff the moment I wanted it returned. That gradually turned her off to me. I have texted her telling her I screwed up with that but I have gotten no response in a week. Looks like she's done completely.

 

Re-read this, because this is basically exactly why she got turned off. She was upfront in the beginning with you about the demands of her job. At the time, you assured her that would be fine. But as it turned out, it wasn't fine with you. thereforeeee, she likely feels you were dishonest with her. And impatience is a big, big turn-off. Especially fairly soon into a relationship. That can be a big red flag to people.

 

1 important thing...she had gotten out of a 2 year relationship back in like January and told me she's looking for a "companion" not a boyfriend and that she needed time to herself. Now before you go saying 'FLUKE', she was telling me this crap WHILE we were hitting it off!

 

And that should have been a red flag to you. Again, she was upfront in the beginning about her expectations and emotional availability. Both appear to be have been limited. Granted, you two hit it off. But that doesn't mean she changed her mind. Just that she relaxed her guard, thinking that this would be a stress-free situation.

 

My advice? The next time someone tells you right up front that their last boyfriends didn't work out because she is often too busy with work, take the hint. Especially if they also add they are just getting out of a relationship and don't want anything serious.

 

To be honest, the writing was clearly on the wall at the very beginning. Maybe you viewed this as a challenge, I don't know. But as you can see, when someone all but puts out a billboard stating that they aren't really as available as we want them to be, we should really take heed instead of making the decision to go ahead and get emotionally invested with them anyway, despite the clear warnings not to.

[Batya33]

I actually don't agree with you that the best relationships start off with a "bang" like that. More often I see that the relationships that start out slowly - as genuine friendships or through a shared interest -- where you get to know the real person -- and then discover the spark or passion later -- those relationships have just as good a chance of lasting, if not better. You basically ignored almost everything she told you in the first few days because you were more interested in being in love with love. You had no idea if she was a "ten" inside nor did you care - and neither did she.

 

Also I think text messages with someone you barely know are a particularly bad form of communication - when a guy emails me like that instead of calling or telling me in person I see it as weak. Just my two cents.

[friscodj]

To answer your inquiry about "being busy". This is such a common theme these days: I'm "too busy" for this, "too busy" for that, etc.

 

Let me tell you something: no one is ever "too busy" for the things they really want. Sure things come up but there are ways to work around everything I believe.

 

So when I hear the words "I'm really busy" I take them to say "Spending time with you is not a high priority for me."

[Johnathan]

I can't say that I have any regrets about what happened between me and her. It brings us the age old question of "is getting hurt worth it" and every person has their own opinion on that. But this is life dude, life is a roller coaster anyway. I'm I'm super into the girl I'd rather experience that kind of thing with a risk than shrink away because of "red flags". It adds character to go through this kind of stuff than to sit there and let life pass you by.

 

 

Batya, I've heard otherwise about how relationships start out. Dr. Drew Pinsky and others are big advocates of the 2 people establishing it as a romantic--not a friendship--thing from the very beginning and I agree with them. We all know that true friendship and romance are 2 different arenas no matter how you slice it. And we've all heard the stories about the guy trying to make it with the girl and he then gets friendzoned.

It's easier to go from:

initial feelings for friend-->losing feelings for friend-->a real friendship is made,

than it is to go from

no feelings for friend-->developing feelings for friend.

 

the 2nd choice is highly dependent on whether there's a physical attraction there.

[Scout]

Well, I tried to help. But if you honestly believe life and relationships are best compared with a rollercoaster ride, I'm afraid my feedback just isn't going to get through to you. Some people are addicted to the high peaks of passion, even though the inevitable low valleys of dispair that shortly follow are almost unbearable.

 

It may take many such incidents before you realize that a different tactic might be needed. While I agree that romantic interest should be apparent before you get involved with someone, I also believe that relationships - like fires - can be suffocated if too much fussing and attention is given to them in the very beginning. Real, true intimacy is based on really knowing someone, and that takes time. You can't force a romance of the ages simply because you want one. It takes work and time, and it isn't always glamorous. By the way, it also requires patience...a characteristic I sense you don't have a lot of.

[Johnathan]

Of course I appreciate your help. I'm just stating an opinion and my opinion is good too. You can't be upfront about something and then show the opposite and expect the other person to have cookie-cutter cooperation. Actions speak louder than words and in this case I saw BOTH ends of actions speaking louder than words.

My weakness is I that even if I start out aloof, I get easily suckered by the slightest bone of emotional display thrown to me. I go with it. Yes, I was very attracted to her, but I was still very aloof at first and she even told me that.

My patience goes out the door if she shows me that her patience is going out the door because of 'infatuation' and that's exactly what happened.

 

 

I'm glad her and I did what we did while it lasted. Sorry if you don't approve.

[Scout]

lol, did I come accross as a mom? just kidding, that reference you made about me not approving...

 

Anyway, I'm not knocking passion. It's a great thing...especially when it's in a long-term relationship! If you still have it then, you probably met someone you're really compatible with and you did a lot of work to get it to that point.

 

Well, sounds like you learned at least to be upfront about what you want in a relationship, so that the next time someone says "I'm very busy most of the time," you won't say, "No problem!" Of course, I'm not recommending you say "forget it, then" either. But just kind of go into it with your expectations low, and really let things unfold over a slower period of time.

 

Infatuation does feel heady and intoxicating...but it also makes us act strictly on emotions, and when you completely toss logic out the window, that's usually a recipe for getting burned.

[Johnathan]

I like the analogy that it's like batting...you get a pitch that looks really good, spot on, so you swing as hard as you can trying to hit it 520 feet. But the pitch sinks like crazy and you whiff like a sucker. You need to be able to read the pitch all the way.

 

What you're saying is that pitch looked like crap the moment it came out of the pitchers hand and I swung hard anyway.

[Scout]

What you're saying is that pitch looked like crap the moment it came out of the pitchers hand and I swung hard anyway.

 

Yes, basically. But you know what? Most of us do that, at least until we learn better. I don't know why...but when it comes to romance, we so want to believe that something will work out, we toss plain reasoning and common sense out the window.

 

Do yourself a big, big favor, and learn the lesson in a shorter period of time than I did! Finally, at the age of 37, I'm with the right guy. But before then? Strikeout after strikeout. And it was all the fault of my stubborn refusal to change my mindset.

[Johnathan]

well my view was that the pitch looking bad right away is like a girl I'm not into who shows interest in me. Because I never swing in that case. But anyway, I have a pattern of going after girls who are unavailable in some way. Don't know if it's pure circumstance or if something in me finds it appealing.

[Scout]

But anyway, I have a pattern of going after girls who are unavailable in some way. Don't know if it's pure circumstance or if something in me finds it appealing.

 

If it's the latter, I have a theory about that. It could mean that you have an exceptionally strong need for approval/validation from others. Thus, you go after the ones the hardest to get that from. Because if you can win them over, hey! That means you're really a catch.

 

Of course, the trick is to really believing in yourself so that you don't need the validation of others. Then, you'll attract the women who truly do love you for who you are, and my friend, that is a much more meaningful type of love then the quickly burned-out passions are.

[majord23]

If it's the latter, I have a theory about that. It could mean that you have an exceptionally strong need for approval/validation from others. Thus, you go after the ones the hardest to get that from. Because if you can win them over, hey! That means you're really a catch.

 

Of course, the trick is to really believing in yourself so that you don't need the validation of others. Then, you'll attract the women who truly do love you for who you are, and my friend, that is a much more meaningful type of love then the quickly burned-out passions are.

 

Thanks Scout, that post has helped me more than you realise.

[Scout]

Thamks Scout, that post has helped me more than you realise.

 

Cool! Glad to know I could help. I might start a thread along those lines at some point, because I really think it's an idea worth examining, for many of us. I know I had that need for so long, and not just in my romantic relationships. I hate to admit it, but even to the point where I would sometimes be jealous if other people got attention, compliments, promotions at work. I'd immediately try to figure out a way to get positive attention back on me.

 

When I finally grew conscious of the fact I did that, I was disgusted with myself! But, then I really examined it to the source...you guessed it, my childhood, lol. It's amazing how when you don't get the right kind of attention and validation as a child, you seek it out in all sorts of inappropriate or just simply dead-end ways. Inevitably in the types of relationships we pursue, too.

[Iceman26]

Dude, I can't bring myself to tell you that you did anything wrong here, because I think what you did was money, by laying it out there for her about "taking a hint".

 

You were into her, she TOLD you she was into you, and then BAM, she backs off.

 

I'd bet money on it that another guy came along, because I never have bought into that BS about "being busy with work". If people want to spend time with you, they will make time.

[Scout]

You were into her, she TOLD you she was into you, and then BAM, she backs off.

 

Well, it wasn't just "bam"...he said himself he got impatient with progressing things, and she did say early on her job was demanding and that had created problems in previous relationships.

 

I'm not saying she didn't completely play straight after she made that announcement...but we can only control our own actions, and I think he had enough info in the beginning to kind of be more reserved about plunging into something too intense until he got an idea about how sincere/consistent she was going to be.

[majord23]

Cool! Glad to know I could help. I might start a thread along those lines at some point, because I really think it's an idea worth examining, for many of us.

 

Please do!

 

I can't identify anything in my past that would make this trait inherent (good childhood, affectionate parents etc.) but I do know that I have always sought women who were 'unavailable' (to a degree) and then I would go about attempting to acquire their validation.

 

It would then go one of two ways:

I would gain validation, they would become less desirable....I would back off, they would pursue and I would end it.

 

OR

 

I would push and push, not receiving what I wanted...until I pushed them away.

 

There were 'healthy' moments in these relationships mind you....but you get the picture

 

Apologies for hijacking OP, I'll bow out - you're receiving some great insight here and it looks like you're taking it on board too.

[Iceman26]

I also think that it gives her an easy out if she isn't cool with the way things are going, or if better plans come along.

 

He may have jumped the gun a tiny bit, but honestly, if I were in his position, I probably would have been the same way.

[moondog627]

I was recently in the same position as the OP. Dated this girl for about a month, had some of the best dates EVER. Passion, chemistry everywhere. She told me numerous times she really liked me a lot. I was never too pushy or needy. Then the contact starts to drift off. She stops picking up when I call, which wasn't even very often (like once a week), and doesn't return my calls. The last conversation I had with her we had planned to go out the next weekend. I playfully made fun of her by saying that making a date with her was like scheduling a doctor's appointment. In hindsight that may not have been the wisest thing to say... but whatever. I called the next week to set up our date but she didn't pick up nor has she returned my call. It's been almost a month now since we've last spoken. I've known long ago that it was a wrap but I refuse to boost her ego in any way and call her out on it. Simply walking away with some dignity is the best option.

 

One of the most important lessons I learned from my breakup a year ago is that the "whys" don't matter. The only thing that matters is the point. And the point is that she doesn't want to be with you, just like this other woman doesn't want to be with me. Maybe she could give you an answer why. But even if she was honest would that really satisfy you? Learn from the mistakes you've made but don't let that get you down. Keep your head up, keep marching forward. There's plenty more women out there.

[GottaLetItBurn]

You did not do anything wrong, it was her fault. A lot of people blames themselves for being impacient just like you. Guess what? That is BS.

 

You have a right to want to get your calls and texts returned. It is so disrespectful for someone not to return a call, and like you I don't say anything because I am aware that getting emotional is a slip up. She was rude, and you got attatched to her more than she did to you. However you can use her shady attitude to further fuel the thought that she acted like a weirdo.

 

I don't see how there is a thin line between being busy with work and being busy to distance yourself from someone. One doesn't have a motive behind it, and the person makes an genuine attempt to make things right with you. The other has a motive behind it, fake, and rude. She is fake, you two are adults who should be able to speak their feeling to each other, and she didn't do that in a respectable manner. That is not acceptable.

 

You had right to lose pacients. She needed to make you feel wanted just as much as did for her. There is that having feeling returned thing. She should return calls, and feelings, love is not a one way street.

 

Sometimes you we just give them too much love, and like how they don't give us that much. You just have to walk away, and let it go. Love isn't about being selfish. You didn't do anything wrong, just stay away from her. Now is your chance to show her she was nothing, and if she tries to make things right, you can be the one rejecting her. You have to be smart about it though.

[GottaLetItBurn]

Then the contact starts to drift off. She stops picking up when I call, which wasn't even very often (like once a week), and doesn't return my calls.

 

It's things like this that make me so happy I don't return messages to this girl who has done that to me. She has done that to me so many times and it is outrageously rude. Then I feel bad when I ignore her text, but hey, then I realize she did that same BS to me. I say no matter what, stick to a rule. Treat people how they treat you. They don't like getting treated like that, too bad.

 

What goes around comes around, but you have to say F you to a woman when she disrespects you. Don't let them get away with that behavior and knock them off their high horse. Never show a woman respect who doesn't show you any.

 

All men learn this one way or another, to just be men and stop taking all this crap from woman. When we slap them in the face with the reality we are not there to kiss their * * *. Then they start to feel a real attraction that she found someone that isn't going to be easy.

[Johnathan]

Its amazing the double standard that's in place. Its okay for the girl to start letting you know she's infatuated with you and misses you, but the moment you show her you feel the same thing, her stock in you starts to plummet.

 

There's a girl I knew from several years ago who I breifly dated before I moved away and I was ALWAYS aloof with her and NEVER gave her any indication I was crazy about her. Why? Because I WASN'T. I got with her simply out of convenience and being somewhat bored right before I relocated. Shockingly, when I moved she cried and she still to this day wants me to come visit her, almost 2 years later Dating is such B.S.

[Scout]

Its amazing the double standard that's in place. Its okay for the girl to start letting you know she's infatuated with you and misses you, but the moment you show her you feel the same thing, her stock in you starts to plummet.

 

Do you honestly think girls don't make this same lament every day? Myself, I have lost count of the amount of guys that lost interest as soon as I showed I was really into them.

 

Dating is such B.S.

 

It really can be, until we ourselves get fed up it and completely change our tactics. Johnathon, I'll tell you when dating stopped being B.S. for me: when I realized what I really needed from a guy was entirely different from what I wanted.

 

Understanding your needs vs. wants is critical to finding a true kindred spirit.