You don't have to *try* to be nice...

[Dating Coach]

One thing I am going to have to add to my Guide when the mods put it back up, is that guys don't have to make that extra effort to show the Object of your Affection that you are a nice guy. Being nice should be natural, not an effort. Women are not stupid creatures. Not at all. If anything you do is controlled by the fact that you are trying to make her see you are nice, then you aren't letting the situation flow naturally, and likely she will see it for what it is. Yet I still see a lot of guys go overboard with the "niceness" stuff. No, I am not talking about just being nice, I am talking about going overboard. If you really are a good guy, a girl will know and you don't need to "show" her.

 

There are many examples of guys who do this, and the guys I am talking about are guys who use this extra niceness for their own purposes. You might actually be a good guy and do this. I did this and I never thought I was a bad guy. I did this because of insecurity. I thought the only way to get a girl I liked was to prove that I was different, that I was a "Nice Guy". In my naiveness I didn't realize that I was so transparent, and that I was better off just being comfortable with myself. If I was truly the good guy that I thought I wasm then I didn't need to do this for her to know that about me.

 

There's a difference between just being your self and trying to impress her. It's kind of like buying favors with niceness. You think that by doing these extra favors and proving your niceness that you show her how different you are from the rest, but she doesn't owe you for that selfish behavior. Not at all. You did it for you, not her.

 

On another thread I unintentionally made an enemy out of a female mod (not a good thing!) because I was telling a guy he should not buy a rose for this girl he was going on a first date with. She disagreed with me and thought it was a sweet thing to do. I stand by my opinion. One, because I think I know the reasons behind his decision to buy the rose (I did it before too!) and two, because I never got anywhere in my romantic life with advice from women. I got a lot of advice for things that sounded good, but it never worked. Why? because my reasons behind it were really selfish, just like the guy in the post.

 

The reason I thought it was selfish is because guys aren't doing this extra nice stuff for her but for himself. Guys can deny it all day long, and I would have too, but the fact remains is that you are buying her gifts or throwing out the extra niceness because you want her to think you are a good guy. Deny it if you want, but it is a bribe. Not an official bribe, but the purpose isn't selfless, it's selfish. It is one reason why I like to advise that you don't buy gifts for her unless she is your girlfriend.

 

This doesn't apply for just gifts. It applies to favors, or anything else. Do you do this kind of stuff for everyone? Do you give everyone the same amount of attention that you do her? If not, then why do the extra effort? I think I made it clear why. You are trying to impress her with niceness, and it's not a natural thing. If you truly are comfortable with yourself, and if you are confident that you are a good guy, these things aren't necessary. She will know because she's not dumb.

[rosstheboss]

here here, i agree whole hartedly.

 

be yourself. if you buy a girl a rose on the first date then she'll probably think you are just trying to get into her pants!!

[Dating Coach]

here here, i agree whole hartedly.

 

be yourself. if you buy a girl a rose on the first date then she'll probably think you are just trying to get into her pants!!

 

It's possible she may think that. I've heard girls say that very thing before. I've also had girls tell me to buy flowers for a girl when I asked for their opinion. To them, being outside of the situation, it seemed sweet to do that. It seemed like that to them because what they were picturing in their head when I asked them was, "If a hot guy came up and did that for me I would just die!" That of course is a fantasy and the real world doesn't work like fantasies. In the real world the guy is likely doing this for selfish reasons whether he is a good guy or not, and the girl isn't in a fantasy where some super great hunk comes to her door with a flower to sweep her off her feet. You can't match up to that fantasy. That fantasy doesn't apply to the real situation.

[Dating Coach]

BTW, here is a 2 year old picture of my girlfriend and I on Halloween. I know its a cruddy quality but it's all I have.

 

link removed

 

I couldn't start a new thread since this one is out there. There should be a pic thread for everyone.

[FATKID]

Nice looking couple!

[dancingmsg]

BTW, here is a 2 year old picture of my girlfriend and I on Halloween. I know its a cruddy quality but it's all I have.

 

link removed

 

I couldn't start a new thread since this one is out there. There should be a pic thread for everyone.

 

DiggityDogg, now i hate you even more....you got everything i can only dream about...good looking...intelligence....hot chicks....there should be a law or something to keep someone like you living on earth...send u to the moon....but will still allow you post here on enotalone forum.....er....so we can read....seriously, thanks man for puting up these great stuff....salute

[ShySoul]

Yes, nicenicess comes naturally. Hence why there isn't a need for a guide, because everything you need to know comes naturally.

 

The reason I thought it was selfish is because guys aren't doing this extra nice stuff for her but for himself. Guys can deny it all day long, and I would have too, but the fact remains is that you are buying her gifts or throwing out the extra niceness because you want her to think you are a good guy. Deny it if you want, but it is a bribe. Not an official bribe, but the purpose isn't selfless, it's selfish. It is one reason why I like to advise that you don't buy gifts for her unless she is your girlfriend.

 

Every thought that maybe the guy is buying a rose for no other reason then because it is a nice and sweet thing to do? Just because you did it for other reasons before, doesn't mean he is. It doesn't mean he is bribing or trying to get in a girls pants. There are plenty of guys who buy roses for entirely selfish reasons, because it is what a gentleman does.

[Dating Coach]

Yes, nicenicess comes naturally. Hence why there isn't a need for a guide, because everything you need to know comes naturally.

 

Ever thought that maybe the guy is buying a rose for no other reason then because it is a nice and sweet thing to do? Just because you did it for other reasons before, doesn't mean he is. It doesn't mean he is bribing or trying to get in a girls pants. There are plenty of guys who buy roses for entirely selfish reasons, because it is what a gentleman does.

 

Not all niceness comes naturally. Are you saying that anytime someone is being nice that it is because he is being selfless? C'mon. There are a lot of people just like I said, and there is no way you can realistically deny that. I specifically said that this post was directed to those people, so you coming on here and saying that there are guys who aren't like this has nothing to do with the point. Your post is purely argumentitive because I clearly made the distinction that I was talking about this specific situation. Of course someone could actually be buying gifts for someone on a first date just to make them happy, but I don't think such situations are the rule. I think they are the exception.

 

I looked back on myself and realized that I was doing this, and it was wrong. I did this because I really lacked confidence due to my lack of success with girls during my teen years. My head was filled with all of this stuff from my friends who were girls, "Oh do this! It would be so sweet!", so I would do it, but not for the object of my affection, but hecause I thought it would help me reach my desired end.

 

It was not just me either. Even in this very forum you see guys hint at their real intentions as well. They say such things as, "I did everything for her! Why doesn't she like me!" Just because you were nice doesn't mean she owes you herself. "Nice Guys" really do this all of the time. I am talking about the "Nice Guys" described in my Guide. This does not mean that these guys are selfish, they probably will be a giving boyfriend, but they are usually so frustrated with finding a girl, and having her like him the way he likes her, that he will do whatever he can to buy a girls affection-even if he doesn't realize that is what he is doing.

[Dating Coach]

Look ShySoul, if you keep posting things that are off topic and purely argumentitive, then I don't want you posting on my threads. If you can't keep it on topic then I must assume that you are consistantly trying to ruin my threads. I'm asking you now before we go into a long thing that causes drama that you either keep it on topic, or stay out.

 

In my first post on this thread I clearly stated that I was talking to the guys who use niceness as a crutch for a desired end. Since I made it clear that I was specifically talking to the guys that do this, then obviously I am also aware that there are guys that don't use niceness in such a way. This topic isn't for them, as I stated. So posting what you did despite how I made that point clear from the start shows that you are being purely argumentitive.

[Dating Coach]

DiggityDogg, now i hate you even more....you got everything i can only dream about...good looking...intelligence....hot chicks....there should be a law or something to keep someone like you living on earth...send u to the moon....but will still allow you post here on enotalone forum.....er....so we can read....seriously, thanks man for puting up these great stuff....salute

 

Thanks for the compliment! You shouldn't be down on yourself though. I was once where you are at now. Now I am living a very good life. I've got a great girlfriend, I bought my own house, I'm making very good money, and I am 25. Everyone hits rough times man, just stay the course and keep working to build your self confidence. You're a bit weak in that area right now. Realize that you do deserve the good things in life and go for it.

[TheFoglifter]

I thought women loved it when you go out of your way -- oh wait, they only want it if you do it naturally? What if you ARE doing it naturally and they THINK you are being transparent. They only like it if they ALREADY like you. A guy who is naturally nice only gets respect and recognition when the attraction already exists. Otherwise, they think a nice guy is a creep who should be used and discarded.

 

You said women aren't stupid creatures, but for the most part, they are. They want what they want when they want it without having to explain it -- they expect people to read their minds and they send unnecessarily complicated, often false messages. Ridiculous, they don't deserve it.

 

I totally agree that being nice to women (whether you mean it or not) is a waste of time, and will get you used. Guys who put in so little effort get the biggest rewards the three times a year they DO go out of their way. You can use this to your advantage though -- women are commodities that can be bought, you just need to make sure you don't overpay.

 

This is especially evident when it comes to "special occasions" like valentines day, anniversaries, and birthdays. It is STUPID for a guy to be in top form ALL of the other 362 days a year because he is expected to still top himself on those other 3.25 days. Instead its better to consistently perform at or around bare minimum tolerance, and then put on a big show for the times when it counts. Why the hell waste so much effort when it won't be appreciated.

 

I know the replies are going to be that they DO appreciate it, but lets be honest here that isn't true either. Women only care about what is going on in the right here right now, until something in the past can be used to their advantage. It doesn't matter if I spend a bunch of time, effort, energy and money every day for 2 weeks preceding valentines day, what only counts is what happens ON valentines day.

[MushroomGod]

Diggity your stuff is gold and I have molded myself through the wisdom of your posts. I went from no success to having a gorgious girlfriend who is all about me.

 

Thanks for all the help, between you and HL21 every guy who visits this board should be successful and over come their problems.

[Dating Coach]

Wow. There are some issues here that need to be addressed.

 

I thought women loved it when you go out of your way -- oh wait, they only want it if you do it naturally?

 

This is very general here. There are situations. The situation I was talking about is when a guy tries to win a girl over by proving to her that he is different by buying her gifts and such. A true nice guy doesn't have to prove to people he is nice. When he does these things he shows insecurity and self doubt.

 

What if you ARE doing it naturally and they THINK you are being transparent.

 

In the scenario I described it is NOT natural. If it were you'd be buying gifts for every aquaintence. You're buying a present for someone because you like you want them to think highly of you. It has nothing to do with whether or not you are a good guy, it's simply a transparent attempt to try to win someone you like over with a gift.

 

Think about if you did this with every girl you liked and were getting rejected all of the time. You'd be the guy who keeps buying girls gifts. Trust me, it's not a good idea. Impress a girl by being relaxed around her, fun to be with, confident in yourself that she'll like you when you are just being you, etc. That's the way to go about impressing someone and making an impression.

 

 

They only like it if they ALREADY like you. A guy who is naturally nice only gets respect and recognition when the attraction already exists. Otherwise, they think a nice guy is a creep who should be used and discarded.

 

I'd agree with that for the most part.

 

You said women aren't stupid creatures, but for the most part, they are. They want what they want when they want it without having to explain it -- they expect people to read their minds and they send unnecessarily complicated, often false messages.

 

I think you are 100% wrong here. First off, there is a difference between thinking and feeling. Secondly, it's not that women expect you to read their minds, it's that they don't have to do any of the work because there are plenty of confident guys who will approach them and do all the work for them.

 

Just the other day I was reading a thread by a guy who was complaining that girls should be meeting guys halfway by approaching them or telling them that they are interested rather than sending "signs". I told him that's not reality because women don't need to do that. Why would a girl do all the work to meet one guy when another equally attractive guy shows more confidence plus makes things easy by approaching her? It wouldn't make much sense for her.

 

I propose an amendment to your theory -- a guy absolutely should not go out of his way to show he is nice, but for a very different reason. A woman is programmed to use this niceness and bilk the guy for all he is worth, then dump him. The guy is left wondering "I was so nice, what happened". Meanwhile the guys who put in so little effort get the biggest rewards the three times a year they DO go out of their way.

 

What do you mean, "guys who put in so little effort get the biggest rewards"? I think the guy who sits on the sidelines with his mouth shut about his crush is the one doing no work. He's waiting for her to do the work. The guys reaping the benefits are the guys who ARE doing the work. THEY are doing the approaching, the meeting, the flirting, the asking out, the calling her up, the romantic dating, etc. If you aren't willing to do that work but would rather play it safe then that is your fault and not womens.

 

This is especially evident when it comes to "special occasions" like valentines day, anniversaries, and birthdays. It is STUPID for a guy to be in top form ALL of the other 362 days a year because he is expected to still top himself on those other 3.25 days. Instead its better to consistently perform at or around bare minimum tolerance, and then put on a big show for the times when it counts. Why the hell waste so much effort when it won't be appreciated.

 

I have no idea of what you are talking about here.

[Dating Coach]

Diggity your stuff is gold and I have molded myself through the wisdom of your posts. I went from no success to having a gorgious girlfriend who is all about me.

 

Thanks for all the help, between you and HL21 every guy who visits this board should be successful and over come their problems.

 

 

Thanks but it's not all just Heloladies, myself, and some other posters. It's you. A lot of people here refuse to listen, refuse to consider their own faults, refuse to learn, etc. They will get very little from what is said here. A person like you, whom is willing to learn and throw aside his angery and frustration, you made it possible for yourself.

 

We gave you the tools, you built the house.

[TheFoglifter]

You've made some interesting points and I'd like to address them.

 

You asked why women should do 50% of the work when there are confident guys who will do 100% of the work. -- In making that argument, you portray women as selfish creatures who are always looking for the bigger better deal. I surmise this is true of humanity in general.

 

It works both ways though. Next time an overweight or otherwise unattractive girl is crying about how she can't get a date, make sure you ask her to explain why a guy would bother with her when he could have a girl who has just as good a personality, but is hot and thin.

 

I realize you will probably defend against this statement by saying that it does not apply to the original scenario you outlined -- after all, the guy sitting on the sidelines is hardly in a position to beg and choose.

 

You said you didn't understand my assertion that "guys who put in the least effort get the best rewards". Permit me to clarify with the axiom: if every day is a sunny day, then whats a sunny day. I believe we are in agreement that putting too much effort into a relationship with a woman results in getting taken advantage of. I believe that on special days (birthday, anniversary, and valentines day) that women are especially looking out for validation, and I am trying to warn guys not to outdo themselves around these events.

 

Think of it this way -- suppose you are a dutiful student, study the days material every night, and are always prepared. One day, for whatever reason, you skip your studies, and the next day you fail a pop-quiz. It doesn't matter that you are normally prepared and that you outdo yourself all those other times, it only matters that on the time of the pop quiz, you failed.

 

Maybe we are also speaking of two different circles of guys. You are working for the guys who are trying to get relationships, whereas I am more working for guys already in them. As such I'm sure we make equally valid points for different circles.

[Dating Coach]

You asked why women should do 50% of the work when there are confident guys who will do 100% of the work. -- In making that argument, you portray women as selfish creatures who are always looking for the bigger better deal.

 

I disagree. It doesn't make them selfish, it makes them practicle. Let's say you're at a restaraunt and you're there to have steak. Are you going to get up and go to the buffett to sample some steak when you have people bringing plenty of juicy samples to your table? I can think of 100 analogies here.

A woman doesn't owe the guy sitting in the corner anything. If you have two equally physically attractive men at a bar, and you hate approaching people, then why would you get up and approach the guy in the corner when the other equally good looking man approaches you with a smile and introduces himself? Besides the fact that it is a lot less stressful and nerve wrecking, the guy approaching is also demonstrating superior social skills which is a 1up over the guy doing nothing.

 

It works both ways though. Next time an overweight or otherwise unattractive girl is crying about how she can't get a date, make sure you ask her to explain why a guy would bother with her when he could have a girl who has just as good a personality, but is hot and thin.

 

This is a different scenario here. The point is not the same. Before we were talking about how things work due to practicality and social skills. Here, you are talking about superior genetics and looks.

 

 

You said you didn't understand my assertion that "guys who put in the least effort get the best rewards". Permit me to clarify with the axiom: if every day is a sunny day, then whats a sunny day. I believe we are in agreement that putting too much effort into a relationship with a woman results in getting taken advantage of.

 

I think you underestimate how much effort goes into standing up to your partner and battling with them when you feel they are crossing a line. Putting effort into a relationship does not = kissing a woman's rear, as your point implies.

 

I believe that on special days (birthday, anniversary, and valentines day) that women are especially looking out for validation, and I am trying to warn guys not to outdo themselves around these events.

 

I'm not sure what you are warning people for. I just had a Valentines Day at home were my fiance' and I sat in front of the fireplace with all lights off save the fire and some candles. We listend to Norah Jones and drank champagne. We slow danced, joked, and had a good time. I didn't outdo myself or set a standard that I have to now match every day of my life or even other holidays.

 

Are you meeting sane women?

[tylercdurden2004]

I still havent received my bottle of single malt!

[SarahRose]

No I don't think a guy should go all out in the beginning because it comes off as fake and insincere. Then later on when you stop doing those things we get bent out of shape and think you don't care about us anymore.

 

After you are in a relationship, is the time to step up and make a big effort. That is when it will be most appreciated and a woman will be most surprised and pleased when the standard mo for a guy is to go all out in the beginning to win her and then after he has her to slack off and and be lazy and neglectful.

 

A guy who does the little things consistently is gold! Knowing how I like my morning cuppa and bringing it to me, a kind phrase on a post it stuck in my work notebook, not leaving a big dirty mess where ever for me to clean up, a single rose for no reason at all, grabbing me for a little dance and so on. Those are the little things that mean lot and cost nothing but your time.

[ghost69]

being nice is for wussies. you have to be somewhat nice when you first meet a woman. but don't act like you are there just for her. she will think you are a loser and too easily attainable.

[MushroomGod]

I still havent received my bottle of single malt!

 

My friend, it will be delivered soon.

 

PM me with details and I'll send it the next time I get paid.

[ghost69]

wth is this bottle stuff about?

[MushroomGod]

wth is this bottle stuff about?

 

If I remember right it looked like good stuff.

[poloplayer]

I don't think there is anything wrong with buying a girl a single rose when going on a date. In fact, I have done it before on a couple of occasions (first date or a much later date), and usually the rose was seen withered away in a glass/vase months down the road in her bedroom or kitchen. Reason being was because I was sincere AND she knew that. Women have this knack for intuition. The times where I bought a bouquot after I severely f-ed up was a different story. It was as if she could sense why I was doing it - typical guy move trying to finally place a little bandaid on a gash that was spilling blood. In hingsight, I think I just looked like a buffoon, fumbling around with some flowers knowing I was guilty one time too many AND she knew that as well.

 

I've played plenty of games with girls in the past. Sure, games work, and they attract women and you will get laid and maybe snatch a girlfriend. After doing that with many different girls I finally learned something - sure I got some great action, but I never got what I really wanted in a girl beyond that. It got very, very old - to the point where I began rejecting hot girls that would try to grind on me in a bar. Maybe, for me, I finally got to the point where I was able to settle down, and settle down ment go steady - beyond another rabbit to pounce on each night.

 

You want to give a rose? Great! Give a rose. You want to resort to conniving tactics? Go for it. It all depends on what your looking for. I'm a firm believer in the old adage - "If you always do what you always did, then you'll always get what you always got." Getting burned after offering a rose or being nice? Well, the problem might not be you at all - it's the girl(s) that you are going after.

[ghost69]

buy a pack of condoms. that will really impress her.