The longer you are married the longer you go without sex?

[busterkeaton]

I know that is the big joke and observation: A newlywed couple puts a marble in a jar every time they have sex the first year and then takes a marble out every time after the first year - and the jar is never emptied. However I am facing this full on. My wife of 13 years (we are both late 30s) haven't had sex for almost a year, and before that for the past 5 years it has been really sporatic and seldom. We have a 4 year old boy who we both love dearly.

This is not the only problem in our relationship. We constantly bicker and fight - I feel as though I am constantly under attack. I feel that she is nagging and picking at me all the time, she compares me unfavourably to other men she knows (who appear to be superheros somehow), she talks incessently (mixing very important information in with basic yakity yak which I tend to tune out) She is completely stressed out over our child, overanalyzing and worrying about everything yet he seems totally normal and healthy to me. She has dropped all her hobbies and devotes herself completely to the child (other than the hobby of figuratively chasing me around with a pointed stick). I keep trying (usually in vain) to attempt to have a life outside work and child rearing - which I am ridiculed and criticised for. I love skiing - I haven't gone in 4 years - does having children mean you never get to have a life anymore? So because I don't reach the same levels of concern (panic/paranoia?) over every little thing regarding our son, I get accused of not caring enough.

 

Example: our toddler fell out of his wagon onto grass in the back yard - I just casually looked over to see if everything was OK and I saw that he got up and wasn't crying so I figured "no big deal", whereas she would have gone rushing over and made a huge deal of it. She saw my "non-response" and ! was lambasted for it and a huge argument enused.

 

I regularily get calls on my work answering machine from her giving me hell for something she had discovered I had done wrong. (forgot to make the bed, bought the wrong kind of soap, didn't put shoes away, etc etc etc). I feel like my wife has somehow become my mother (or my boss). I regularily feel as though I am basically just a 3rd hand for her as she constantly barks out the orders to me. If I complain or refuse then I have a bombastic argument on my hands. Many of the things she wants me to do I don't feel are necessary - all that cleaning and yard work and so on. As far as housework is concerned, I considered hiring a maid but I just know that she would clean _before_ the maid came over so as to not be embarrassed about her dirt. She is exhausted most of the time (I feel it is from stressing too much) She is always complaining about health problems - I feel it is from too much coffee and cigs and stress and unhealthy diet (before anybody freaks out - she smokes outside and never in front of our child) yet she rarely sees a doctor - or if she does she doesn't tell the doctor everything that is wrong. More arguments.

 

Put plainly this woman is driving me mad. She was always a little "high maintenance" before the child (yeah, I know, women hate that phrase) but things have gone into overdrive now. She used to complain that I am not affectionate to her but in reality I don't feel like being affectionate to someone who was screaming at me not 2 hours earlier. The excessive talking, over-analyzation, complaining and criticising is driving me crazy. It's so bad that I can't even sit on the toilet without hearing my name being called - fix this, do that, where are you etc. There have been times when I have lied about having to work late or bad traffic etc just so I can sit in the park in peace and quiet for an hour.

 

As you can tell I am very very frustrated and miserable and feeling trapped. We have been to marriage counselling (three sessions wiped out our insurance for this) but things got even worse after that - it merely gave us labels for the things gone wrong. Of the 10 things that one does to ruin a marriage, we were doing 7! Now we argue about that as well. I have suggested a trial separation a number of times but she goes ballistic and threatens to bar me from seeing my son (which would break my heart) and makes me feel guilty for supposedly abandoning them. She threatens to use my past substance abuse problem (clean and sober for 6 years now) as ammunition in court (in case of divorce) as well as the fact that I was on anti-depressents and anxiety disorder medication for a while (that's all cleared up now)

She has totally exacting and high standards for everything. A month ago it was our anniversary, we went out for dinner but I didn't buy flowers - I figured that fancy dinner was enough and flowers are expensive (can't settle for the cheap ones, oh no) or a gift or anything, well I got in major trouble for that. But I didn't get a gift or flowers from her - I pointed that out and she said that it is the man's job to get flowers for the woman, women don't have to do anything for the anniversary. Is this true?

 

Sorry, this is such a long and complaining post, it is embarrassing that I am in this postition. Isn't life supposed to be fun? I'm just not having any. Oh right, the sex - do I live the rest of my life without any now, this is really depressing. Come to think of it, the sex wasn't really that great anyways - it was always such a major production and was never spontaneous anyway - she would complain that she was fat (she isn't) or it's cold in the house or it's near her period (or after or during or something), or she's too tired etc etc. This sucks. I don't know if there is even an answer to all this - however it feels good to get this off my chest a bit. Sorry for the long and whiney post.

[DN]

Tell her she is destroying the marriage and that you insist that you both go to counselling to learn how to manage the relationship better.

 

Be very firm about this.

[Beec]

I sent you a pm.

 

I think you need first to become unmmoved by her behavior. If she gets her way by yelling, then she will only do it more.

 

It seems something is going on that makes her very insecure, not sure what it is? Is there something in her background?

[Cynder]

Oh... boy...

 

My husband and I celebrated our first year a month ago. We went to a movie and to Applebees. I didn't get flowers or a gift from him, and I didn't care. I was just happy with the two of us going out and spending some time together. It's not the "man's job"...

 

I think it's pretty sad that you have to go sit in a park just to get a break from this woman.

 

This post really angers me...

 

I agree something needs to be done, but I don't know how to advise you. If you try to talk to her, she'll blow up. You tried counceling, that didn't work... This is tricky. Good luck.

[Jetta]

Agree with DN, you need marriage counseling. There are some unresolved core issues here that are coming out in other ways. No life doesn't end after children, but it does change. You can still go skiing in fact you should be teaching your son how to ski. It may mean that your spending more time on the bunny hill but you'll be glad you took the time later.

 

There needs to be some give on both sides.

[melrich]

Did your wife work before the birth of your son? Was it an involving job? Does she work now?

 

To be honest she sounds like she is bored and this behaviour you are speaking of is her way of dissipating energy

 

If she doesn't have already she needs to find interests outside you and your son. Is working a possibility?

[OceanEyes]

To answer one quick question about whether or not it's "the man's job" to purchase unpractical gifts like expensive flowers or cheesy drugstore cards: Absolutely not. And, in my opinion, anniversaries should be about both of you - not simply a day for you to fawn over her. Her expectations and perception are a bit selfish, and, from what I've seen, would seem neurotic to most men.

 

I actually don't care for occasions like Valentine's Day and anniversaries. I don't see the point. I have a rough idea of how long I've been with my man (we've narrowed it down to the week, not the exact day), but I don't like the idea that we need a 'holiday' to express how we feel about each other, to celebrate each other. That's a load of BS. We should be doing that all-year-round.

 

You sound like you're going down a really unhealthy road here. I would NOT be happy in your situation. You sound like you are her employee rather than her husband. I think in order for your marriage to work, you must find a way (or rather, SHE must) of working together, as a team or 'partnership', rather than expecting things to always be about HER and what she needs.

 

Things sound so far gone between the two of you that I'm not even sure what to suggest. Judging by your post, you don't even seem sexually attracted to each other anymore. I understand that, after a while, it is something you have to work on, but it shouldn't have to be built from the ground up every time you want some intimacy.

 

You state in your post that therapy made things worse and have you 'ammo' to use against each other in arguments. If I was you, I'd think long and hard about whether or not I'd want to live the rest of my life like that. Also, any woman who would use your son as leverage to keep you is downright devious. Be careful.

[busterkeaton]

Yes, my wife had a career before she got married, we saved up money and she took a few years off after the birth of our child, something we both agreed on. Somewhat naiively I thought that she would have some extra time (I mean the child has to sleep sometime doesn't he) so she could learn to cook and relax and so on. That didn't happen. An example I use when thinking about this is as follows: A few years ago we got a babysitter and spent the afternoon shopping (not really what I wanted to do do but still) we went to one of those huge bookstores - I went to the "selfhelp - fixing your marriage" section and she went to "baby" section and started browsing books on "cooking from scratch for your newborn". My wife can't even cook for adults let alone children. She had all these plans to do this etc. I found this really telling actually.

You may be right in thinking that she is bored and dissipating energy - I feel like a punching bag sometimes.

For financial reasons she has gone back to work full time now and we have a nanny (interestingly enough, it is a nanny that doesn't speak english but does speak my wife's native language - frustrating that I can't communicate with the nanny) My wife feels that anything from her home country is superior to her adopted country. I don't share this belief. I am endlessly trying to decipher instructions on products. At the beginning of our marriage I thought this was fun and exotic - the culture differences but now I find this constant hankering for the home country to be annoying.

 

Her background: Her mother is exactly the way she is - worse even, as far as the yelling and over-reacting etc. Her father took off when she was 1 years old. I think it might be her nationality (Slav) but I have met lots and lots of her countrymen and they all seem to be the same way - argumentative, bombastic and beligerent. I think it might be some kind of national personaity trait. My apologies to any Slavs that are mellow, relaxed and calm people but ummm to put it bluntly, I have never met any - not saying they don't exsist but ... where are you?

 

She just started a full time job and can't get time off for marriage counselling (any time off is filled with Parent/teacher interviews, doctor/dentist's appointments etc). I don't have alot of faith that it will help anyway - the last marriage counsellor said that "by the time couples come to see us then it is too late" I fear it is too late for us. I (and we) are so busy just trying to survive that we have no energy to rebuild our relationship.

I actually hate the weekends and holidays as I would rather be at work - how pathetic is that? Living in that home is like living in a war zone.

I will take my son skiing when he is old enough and look forward to it. He is about the only thing that really brings me any joy these days. My job sucks too. Having a crappy day here (and week, and month, etc etc)

[busterkeaton]

To answer one quick question about whether or not it's "the man's job" to purchase unpractical gifts like expensive flowers or cheesy drugstore cards: Absolutely not. And, in my opinion, anniversaries should be about both of you - not simply a day for you to fawn over her. Her expectations and perception are a bit selfish, and, from what I've seen, would seem neurotic to most men.

 

It's the same for Valentines day, mother's day etc. It's just turned into one more thing that I screw up.

[busterkeaton]

Sorry can't get the hang of "quoting"

 

Judging by your post, you don't even seem sexually attracted to each other anymore.

 

Yes I think it's true - we (me at least) are not sexually attracted to each other (it's weird because she is actually a very attractive woman) We had separate bedrooms for about a year (I slept in the basement) which I loved as I got my own space for - and I got a better night's sleep, but she insisted that I move back upstairs again because apparently our house is haunted (there is some fairly unusual things going on but that might be subject for another post - I don't worry about a ghost, preferring to worry about more earthly problems that are in my face regularily) I am not making this up, I swear. Plus the other reason was that I couldn't hear the baby cry if I was downstairs (so thereforeeee couldn't get up to administer to him) I guess that is a valid point. incidentally we took turns getting up in the middle of the night. Yeah, but sex, ugh, the way I feel right now is that I don't even want to touch her. This is so sad.

 

You state in your post that therapy made things worse and have you 'ammo' to use against each other in arguments. If I was you, I'd think long and hard about whether or not I'd want to live the rest of my life like that. Also, any woman who would use your son as leverage to keep you is downright devious. Be careful.[/quote from other poster]

 

I am truly terrified of losing my son, I love him more than anything and seems to be my only reason for being these days. I was talking to an aquantence about his divorce and he said he was lucky because "he got to see his kids every second weekend" I felt my blood run cold.

[melrich]

I am truly terrified of losing my son, I love him more than anything and seems to be my only reason for being these days. I was talking to an aquantence about his divorce and he said he was lucky because "he got to see his kids every second weekend" I felt my blood run cold.

 

Well if it comes to the end of your marriage I am sure you will not "lose" your son. Courts are extremely reluctant to isolate one parent from the children.

 

Maybe this is just your wife's "personality". You seem to have done many things to try and get this sorted out. I do realise that you face many issues but perhaps it is time to try a trial seperation. Something to shoch her back to reality. Have you seen a lawyer?

[xmrth]

I don't know how well my advice will help you, but you should just let her have her way. Just let her have her way when she thinks she's right, just let her have her way. Me and my boyfriend haven't fought in years (been together 6) once we started doing this... it's like letting the other person have their way, no matter how wrong they are, it stops fueling the fire and that fire goes nowhere so it just dies down. It takes time and it may sound rediculous because if someone's wrong, they're wrong and unreasonable, but eventually things just even out. I'd give it a try at least.

[randy]

o man that's just . . . * throws up * . Man am I glad to be single right now !

 

what's going on here ? ? ? It sounds VERY complicated . Was she like this before you guys got married and before your son ?

 

I know this sounds strange but just try it for a few days . She's always behind you yelling to do this and do that . Just try doing it for a few days and see how she reacts . Try doing the work together and it should get done faster . Try to save up some time for a few days off together ( leave the child with a babysitter if you could ) .

 

I understand that she's busy but that busy ? I think she's just stressed out ! ! ! How old is she ? How old are you ? Maybe it's a chemical imbalance ? ? ?

[randy]

Also, any woman who would use your son as leverage to keep you is downright devious. Be careful.

 

 

That's a very good point OceanEyes. What does this say about her ? ? ? That's just EVIL ! ! !

 

In this situation I think you have to try out a few different methods . Try doing what she says and see if she calms down . Maybe it's simply stress ? If that does'nt work then try a temp separation . If she threatens you with your son just tell her "her threats won't work" .

 

Good Luck MAN ! ! !

[Protex]

I am truly terrified of losing my son, I love him more than anything and seems to be my only reason for being these days. I was talking to an aquantence about his divorce and he said he was lucky because "he got to see his kids every second weekend" I felt my blood run cold.

 

I'm sure that if the situation were explained to a court during the process of a divorce your rights to the child would not be so limited. Her using the child as leverage would be a valid point to argue against her even getting to keep the child. At least, I think so.

[OceanEyes]

I do know that in Canada, courts look favourably on good dads. A drug problem in the past shouldn't even be considered. If you have some kind of criminal record, DUIs (impaired driving), or other documented strikes against you, you might be in for a fight. Otherwise, it's usually your word against hers.

 

I don't understand why some women use kids this way. It is absolutely horrible, and the person it affects most is the CHILD.

 

I really do feel badly for you and your situation. You seem backed up in a corner with no solid options. Not a good position to be in.

 

Do you actually still love her? Would you still want to make it work if it weren't for your son?

[redandblack]

Wow, this sounds just like MY parents.

 

After watching them for YEARS I can say that 'doing that she wants for a while' would only passify the situation momentarily. In the meantime he will be building up further ager, stress and resentment. Besides, his job allready sucks, so why should he just do more work at her bidding.

 

In any case, this goes much further than is visible. You've had counceling, but it sounds like one of you was sort of closed off to everything while going into it.

 

If divorce is even in the picture, become a MODEL parent. If you drink, quit, smoke? Quit. Any subjective materials in your house? Get rid of that too. Really clean up before going into the whole situation.

 

Anways, I feel sorry for you and do not believe anyone should have to live like this.

[Shadows Light]

Busterkeaton.... WOW!!! you're post hit on many nerves here. I found myself nodding at many things you said...and then just incredulous at others. WOW.

 

Self Helpt books: Dr. Phil Relationship RESCUE. Good book. The dance of Anger.... and the second book.. The Dance of Intimacy... very very good books. These two books go into explaining why your wife is the way she is. Inprinted. Coded. Programed.

 

You mentioned she was of a certain ethnic orgigin. And that her father left her at age 1 and her mother is this way. Well.. that has some to do with it. She couldn't control her dads leaving... or her dad. Her mother I am sure POISONED her to what and who her father was. So she is trying to MOLD you to be the HUSBAND/FATHER that she thinks you should be. ie. Controlling your every waking minute. Even down to your POTTY TIME. Yikes... that should be sanctuary.

 

Hiring a maid. Hey.. you should hire one. And then.. it takes the responsibility off your shoulders. If she chooses to clean before hand.. then its ON her. YOU took care of your end of it. And personally.. I think this is a very diplomatic way of handling the division of labor. If you don't want to do it.. then at least be responsible for your end of it. HIRE A MAID. Very diplomatic.

 

Lack of SEX. Hmmmm. Well. Could be she's using sex to punish you. Withholding to mold you. Nope not fair.

 

Using your children: YEP.. I hear you. VERY VERY wrong to use kids as leverage. VERY NASTY BUSINESS.

 

Don't know what to tell you... except... it shouldnt' be this difficult.

It should not cause this much pain. Truly it shouldn't.

 

I sent you a PM. Your post is lengthy...and I think I can better answer you in a different format.

[RayKay]

I don't know how well my advice will help you, but you should just let her have her way. Just let her have her way when she thinks she's right, just let her have her way. Me and my boyfriend haven't fought in years (been together 6) once we started doing this... it's like letting the other person have their way, no matter how wrong they are, it stops fueling the fire and that fire goes nowhere so it just dies down. It takes time and it may sound rediculous because if someone's wrong, they're wrong and unreasonable, but eventually things just even out. I'd give it a try at least.

 

Um....I don't know about this approach. I know this is completely off topic but I wonder if this is part of the reason you even feel the way you do about this relationship.

 

Letting someone have their way does NOTHING to resolve the issues, the tension, or allow partners to take responsibility for their actions and behaviours. In fact, it can create more resentment, and the issues can resurface repeatedly.

 

Studies have shown the long term potential and a health of a relationship is not determined by how much you fight, but by HOW you fight (meaning you deal with actual issue, don't resort to petty name calling or bringing up other issues...you deal with the source issue and both accept your part in it). Even disagreements and arguments are part of a healthy relationship and about defining yourselves as a couple and as a partnership.

[RayKay]

Don't hang onto something hoping it will get better without any work put forth by other partner as well. And don't hold on for sake of son - you only show him a unhealthy relationship - something that he will remember when it is his time to have relationships.

 

Courts do not automatically award to mothers anymore, and they definitely should not do so. Fight for your son and the right to be in his life. Her using her son as leverage as Ocean said does not say much positive about her.

 

It IS terribly sad that you are not even attracted to her, and that the intimate life between you is so poor...I am sorry.

[novaseeker]

Hmmm.

 

One thing to consider for yourself right now is: what do you want. Do you want the marriage to work, do you think the marriage is over, what do you want with respect to your son and the like. You have to ask yourself: how much do I love this person, do I want to spend the rest of my life with this person, what would need to change for me to be alright with that, do I think she is capable of changing in that way and the like.

 

If you want to work on the marriage, marriage counseling CAN work to turn a marriage around, but it takes two to tango. It won't work if she isn't participating or is sort of half-assedly participating. Nevertheless it could be VERY helpful for you yourself to speak with a family therapist about what is happening. I know it helped me wonders when my ex-wife and I were going towards separation and divorce, even though she really pretty much opted out of counseling by always being too busy for it.

 

Things can go very awry in settled marriages when kids come along, particularly if there are pre-existing issues that haven't been worked out. When the children come, all those issues get tossed onto the table, because no matter which way you slice it, having children, as wonderful as it is in so many ways, puts a lot of strain and pressure on the marital relationship itself. It's common enough for couples to struggle when their kids are young with issues that they didnt address before they had kids, and that become much more glaring when the couple has much more limited time to be a couple than they did before the kids came. Those situations can be turned around if the couple still loves each other, and if both parties have a willingness to change ... and that depends on the people involved, in this case you and your spouse.

 

If things are going south, or you have the impression that they may be going in that direction, you really do have to take every precaution to act like a choirboy, especially around your son. Anything and everything adverse to your character can be used against you by a disgruntled spouse and their divorce lawyer. It really depends on where you live, because the standards that the family law courts use in different places are really, really different, but rest assured that if things do go that way and things are in any way acrimonious, an attempt will be made at some point to lash out at you in terms of custodial issues, and the best way to protect yourself from that is to be on your level best behavior from here on in ... you can't change the past, but you can control what you do in the present and not hurt yourself potentially before a family law judge.

 

I hope things work out for you, either way. I know how hard these situations can be, having lived through this myself a few years ago.

[DN]

Just as a point of information: a member of my theatre group was suddenly sued for divorce by his wife who also sought sole custody of the kids. She refused to allow him to see them and even when directed to do so by an interim judgment she continually found excuses to avoid him taking them - colds, seeing their friends, etc.

 

Soon, she made allegations of abuse by him against his daughters. Since I had directed a play in which both he and his daughter appeared I was asked to give evidence to an investigative social worker about my observations of their interaction. I did so through a phone interview and I know some others as did as well, plus there were extensive interviews of both parents and the children.

 

The upshot after many court delays and the expenditure of a lot of money by him on legal fees is that he was given primary custody of the children because his wife was deemed to have attempted to damage his relationship with them. Her own visitation has to be supervised by a third party to avoid he taking the children away.

 

Things are changing.

[novaseeker]

It all depends on where you live, which is my point. California is different from Texas. Ontario is different from Utah. It all depends on the local laws and courts.

[DN]

It all depends on where you live, which is my point. California is different from Texas. Ontario is different from Utah. It all depends on the local laws and courts.

 

True - which is why research is required and/or a consultation with a lawyer.

[OceanEyes]

Things are changing.

 

Yes, they are, and I think it's great. There is still a long way to go, and hopefully fathers will be seen as equals when it comes to having custody of children (if the mother is actually unfit).

 

I know many fathers who are much better parents than the mothers. I don't think that the woman should be able to keep the kids, simply because she's 'the mother'. It should be the best parent. Period.