Dealing with Christians

[pianoguy]

I just wondered if anyone here had advice on dealing with conservative Christians who think that homosexuality is a sin. I am mostly closeted, and have a number of friends who are somewhat religious. I don't really feel the need to come out to them, but I just wonder how other people deal with this kind of thing. I always feel this need to start fighting with people over the issue and part of me thinks that I should just accept that these people think differently than I do, even if it is an idiotic way of thinking.

 

I'll give one example- I have a penpal who I've corresponded with for 10 years but never actually met. She didn't know I was gay and sent me an e-mail forward in support of the constitutional marriage amendment. Big mistake- I attacked her viciously and came out to her in the process. She wrote back saying I had made her cry, I was unmoved but wrote her back a very reasonable, calm e-mail detailing why I thought it was ridiculous to support such an amendment and ending with a somewhat sappy but very moving description of my first crush and why I cannot stand the idea of something that feels so pure to me being described as a sin. She writes back saying, "Let's just have a truce." I am still quite furious- she didn't say "I thought about your e-mail" or "I can see where you're coming from" just "let's stop talking about this so you will stop yelling at me." What should I do? My brain says I should just calm down and accept her truce but I really just want to tell her to get lost.

 

Another example- my best friend Bob is a great guy. He has a huge heart and brain and is one of the most caring people I know. I'm pretty sure he believes that homosexuality is probably a sin, but he says he doesn't know for sure (at least when I'm talking to him). He has very strange religious views that I'm not entirely comfortable with, a weird mix of Evangelical Christianity (he believes the Bible is literally true) with a very progressive view on science (he believes in evolution) and very conservative views on social issues (he's somewhat sexist). I love spending time with him, he's my friend after all, but I still find that it hurts when we talk about this issue, even though he does not judge me, says he doesn't believe I am going to Hell, thinks it's okay when I crush on his friends, looks for guys to set me up with, etc. And yet- I still can't stand the idea that such a pure feeling for me- that he could think it would be a sin, somehow... Maybe I'm being unreasonable. I know his views have evolved a lot since meeting me, but I just wish he would just accept what I say since I am gay and he is not. Stupid Bible.

 

I'm finding that I have a lot of anger over this issue and in my spare time I've found a new hobby: attacking conservatives. I go to a Christian College (long story- only 1 semester left thank God) so they are not hard to find. In this forum I actually seek out people who are saying gay people are going to Hell and use a cunning mixture of unassailable logic and cruel sarcasm to make them look like the idiots they are. I really enjoy this, I feel like I shouldn't but I do.

 

My wonderful parents say I should just accept that these people are they way they are and avoid the topic. I am improving at this, I'm finding I can sometimes love people despite their religion, but it still annoys me.

 

Thanks for listening to me vent guys. Do others feel this way? How do you deal with this? Any advice on the penpal? I'd really like to hear from some older gay people if possible, but I'd also love to hear from straight people and young people.

[Bitter_Blasphemy]

hi.. im only 19 and very religious but i also have a HUGE number of gay friends. in fact my two best friends are gay.

 

but heres my advice to you-

people are going to hold their views no matter what. and while it feels so natural to you to hold these feelings for other men.. its also natural for a religious person to hold feelings of dislike towards gay people. i dont mean this in a mean or unforgiving way at all but what i am getting at is this--

 

no matter what everyones going to hold onto their beliefs. you may feel their beliefs are wrong just like they feel your beliefs are wrong but i doubt either of you are going to budge on your opinion. but rather than yelling at the other person over their faith why dont you be the bigger person in the scenario and calmly and peacefully explain your side of why you feel homosexuality is okay. i dunno.. that may just be the pacifist in me coming out.. but i think itll work better than yelling at someone.

[AlwaysNeedHelp]

I believe homosexuality is a SIN.

 

i dont know why when god created a woman to have sex with her you go and have sex with a guy... sorry but have to say my opinion...

 

i really dont know what to say.. i dont agreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[michelemybell]

pianoguy,

This is a huge lesson you gotta learn to stay sane: Stay strong in your beliefs, but dont let other people get you down. It doesn't matter what you do in life--Someone is always going to have an opinion about it or not agree with it or not like what you do. We all go through it with everything. Just accept that you wont be accepted by everyone...and you'll be fine either way. I've learned it's an impossible task to be liked by everyone, and will only destroy you if you try to do so. You cant live for others. Accept that others disagree and walk away.

[Shanö]

Hi Pianoguy,

I'm staunchly Christian, although i do not belong to 'a' specific religion, precisely because of the behaviours they tend to perpetrate as being 'Christian' and biblical and they are not at all.

 

What i think you need to consider here is the irony in your behaviour? You are not talking to this girl because she does not share your view, [when she has called a truce!] yet you are out there arguing and trying to stir things up with others that don't share YOUR view point? Disagreement is healthy and not something to turn your back on people for - you or them? Surely the views of others must be accepted? Yours included?

 

Perhaps the ammendment is ethical, after all marriage does not stem from a declaration of just 'love' does it, thereforeeee it does not reduce the relationship you are having either? for that matter, any marriage ceremony in a church is not biblical either, it is cultural and dragged in by churchs...

 

However, back to your issue with Christians. They have no right to brandish you a sinner, because we are all that! They do have justification for disagreeing with you. In the same manner as anyone Christian or not can tell me that swearing is wrong.

 

Perhaps you should turn any wrongful condemnations round on them and ask them about the fact that ALL sins are equal because that is what is truth to Christian, and that we are all sinners, so you are no worse than them, and that is truth to their eyes too, even if they don't like truth much. Ask them politely where they sin in their lives - then remind them of "he that can cast stones"...

 

I certainluy wouldnt berate you, whether im christian or not, i have no right to whatsoever...

[mgirl]

If you never speak out and defend your views, nothing will ever change. If great revolutionaires never did this, we wouldn't have some of the rights we have today, nor some of the prejudices (but that is a different story. It always seem the biased and prejudiced seem to win out in this world).

 

Nothing stops these bigotted people from speaking their truths, so why should it stop you? Just because somebody reads a book and believes everything that "scripture" says, without measuring it against their values, does not mean they have an ultimate right to dictate the status quo? No.

 

Why is that we adopt that attitude that we must remain silent, yet they are able to express their views and we are made to feel guilty? I bet they don't...

 

I actually feel sorry for these people as they do not know their own minds. In my opinion, it is better to speak your own truth no matter consequence as you have to be true to yourself and defend your views.

 

Things will never change unless we make them. The reason the earth is in such a state of disarray is because WE HAVE LET THESE THINGS HAPPEN!

 

Throughout your post, you are stifling your voice and your inner convictions. Why should you? They don't and they don't make any apologies for it!

 

You say you are enjoying challenging the status quo, well do it. If it feels right, do it.

 

Don't worry about your pen friend. If she can't accept you for who you are, you shouldn't hang around. Seriously, why does it always have to be "our issue"? Like we are ultimately wrong and they are ultimately "right"? Forget it.

 

If what the bible says, that we were all created equal and "love thy neighbour", why do we have to continiously jump through hoops to constantly prove ourselves? While they sit on their arrogant behinds and reap the benefits of our civilisation?

 

Sorry about all the edits, i am tired, but my end opinion is to say what you feel is right. If people don't accept this, it is their loss.

[mgirl]

My wonderful parents say I should just accept that these people are they way they are and avoid the topic. I am improving at this, I'm finding I can sometimes love people despite their religion, but it still annoys me.

 

Complancency is the way to death. Why must we accept what they say?

[Jinx]

I've lived in a Conservative Christian home, as well as around many Catholic and other Christian individuals who believe it is a sin, one thing I've learned: You can't change their views, but that can't stop you from stating yours.

 

Those that are truly religious will believe it is a Sin and you'll not get farther than arguments because "The bible says so. The end." I've tried talking before to those sort and they usually all say the same things, if that is their belief. Honestly what can you do? I'm sure you've even heard of those who are claim to be homosexual themself but say they can never happily act on such thoughts because they'd be condemed to hell.

 

What disturbs me, are those which become Conservative Christians because they are ignorant about Homosexuality. They haven't a clue about anything Christian or Conservative other than "Hate gays. Give no marriage rights. No adoption. The end." You ask them about their other Conservative Christian beliefs and they haven't a clue about the bible otherwise except maybe one or two other passages. I say, they believe in everything or nothing at all. You can't bend the religion by believing in simply one passage to suit your needs when the others don't do you justice.

 

It doesn't mean all Conservatives and all Christians hate Homosexuality though, despite its a common stereotype, there are a good few that will be accepting. They may not care much for it, but they won't bash you for it. For those you may find a middle ground. I've found not all of them are out on the Homosexual rage bandwagon, so they can't all be dropped there.

 

My advice as given in any situation is: Be yourself. There will be those that will hate you. There will be those that love you. If they cannot accept you for who you are, you have no time to give to them. You are who you are, and do so happily. People will try to change you, try to do things to influence you, but stand strong and things will work in your favor.

[justpaisley]

You cannot force anyone to accept you for who you are. You can expect the best from people, but you will generally be disappointed. You can, however, accept them for who they are and assert your opinion whenever necessary.

 

I'm an evangelical Christian, but when I was presented with the marriage amendment petition, simply refused to sign it. When asked why, I said it was none of our business what people do with their lives as long as it doesn't affect us and it certainly isn't the government's business. I didn't scream at them because they're different, I simply asserted my opinion and realized that they are different from me and I must accept that. They, in turn, accepted that I am different.

 

It is extremely immature to expect people to accept you without making any attempt to accept them. You should not ever, ever let someone abuse you, and when a chance to assert yourself arises, do it, but you can NOT expect to change anyone and you can't scream at someone (your penpal) for bringing up something to you that she had absolutely no clue would offend you.

 

If you cannot accept these people for who they are, do not talk to them. If you can accept that they are different than you, by all means, assert your opinion whenever necessary and disagree with them and let them know if they offend you. But don't expect them to change unless you're willing to change, too.

[Markers]

.

 

 

{Yes, it was. Get with the program and stick to the debate instead of personal attacks. We could have removed your entire post instead. Love, the Mods}

 

Back to the topic. I'm christian, and I do believe homosexuality is a sin, because that is clearly stated in Bible. There's no way you can explain it away.. that's just how it goes. If someone wants the passages, I can give them. It doesn't look like many would want them here though, since this is about how to deal with people, not about homosexuality being a sin or not.

 

None of my friends are gay (as far as I know), but I'm sure it wouldn't matter. Everyone does sin, it's not a reason to hate someone. All I can do is to take care that I avoid sin as much as I can (which isn't too much). If you're bothered with someone who tries to banish you to hell or something because you're homosexual, you can remind them of "love your neighbour" part. It's not our job to really condemn anyone of their sins, leave that to God. It's okay to mention that: according to Bible, that is sin. People will either take it or leave it.

 

 

 

Shanö - You're wrong to say all sin is equal. Do you seriously believe that raping a child is as bad as stealing candy from shop? I didn't think you did.. and I'm sure God doesn't do it that way either. Otherwise it would be better to do in your dad if he annoys you than constantly losing your temper to him.

 

Also it is stated in Bible something like this: (not sure about exact words, but the meaning is same) Because of that this sin was worse than the another..

 

If you want, I can look up that passage too. PM me or something about it because it's sorta off topic here.

 

You are correct though about christians not brandishing homosexuals as sinners because we all do sin.. just justification for disagreeing of what you should do.

 

About the line "he that can cast stones", we can obviously read what's right and wrong from Bible. We are then entitled to say that, but leave the judgement to God. I think the casting stones refers to condemning people, sort of stepping into position of God here, not about keeping quiet about what Bible says about right and wrong.

 

 

I must say though, that just accepting sin "because we all do it anyway" and not even trying to oppose it is something God doesn't want us to do. Try to avoid sin, and honestly apologize if (when) you do it , that's what God wants us to do. He doesn't except anyone to be perfect.

[I_love_rain_hugs_and_you]

If you are gay, then tell people that you gay, but don't attack people simply because they disagree with your choice. The fact is that there are going to be lots of people, Christian and non-Christian, who disagree with homosexuality, so get used to it. Not everyone can accept your choices, and you can't force someone to accept them. If someone does not like what you are doing, just ignore them. Some people don't like what I do, so I just ignore those people. It's that simple.

[pianoguy]

I did not come here to discuss whether homosexuality is a sin or not, those who wish to discuss this matter will kindly get lost. Saying things like "The Bible says it is a sin" is extremely misleading. The Bible is an extremely complex document, it is not a list of traffic laws that say what you can and cannot do. At best there is something like 5 references in the Bible to homosexuality, many Biblical scholars have interpreted these verses in different ways. I do not want anyone else in here to say "This is what the Bible says, end of story"

 

I guess this whole "You cannot change people" doesn't hold water with me, because I think people do change. Maybe it would be better to say, "Don't expect people to change," but to simply go about your business with this attitude is self-defeating. If you look at our society- things have changed ENORMOUSLY in the past century alone. We now treat women and black people as being equal with white men, something unthought of in 1900, and I fully expect that in 1 or 2 generations we will treat gay people the same way. Even the churches are coming around.

 

You cannot force anyone to accept you for who you are. You can expect the best from people, but you will generally be disappointed. You can, however, accept them for who they are and assert your opinion whenever necessary.

 

This seems to be good advice. However, I have trouble believing that the attitude of a homophobic person is an inherent part of that person. This is why I don't accept these people, just as I don't accept racist or misogynistic people. What would the world be like today if the black people had just sat down and said, "Oh, Bob, he's always going to hate blacks and women, just like always. We should just accept him for who he is." Yet a mere two generations later the majority of Bobs now believe that black and white people are equal (not all Bobs, but there are persistent idiots out there).

It is extremely immature to expect people to accept you without making any attempt to accept them.

Homosexuality is a fundamental part of my phsyiology. Homophobia is not a fundamental physiological trait of people, it is a learned behavior. If you don't believe me you can consult the myriad scientific studies that are out there.

You can NOT expect to change anyone and you can't scream at someone (your penpal) for bringing up something to you that she had absolutely no clue would offend you.

 

So maybe screaming is out of line, but I fail to see how her ignorance of my position on this issue reduces the offensiveness of her statement. If she had known my views she simply would have forwarded her e-mail to others on her list, trying to quash the happiness of gays who desire marriage everywhere. How considerate. At least she didn't raise the issue with me, thereby hurting someone's feelings!

 

But don't expect them to change unless you're willing to change, too.

 

Um, why do I need to change? If you are suggesting change my orientation, that's ludicrous and there is scientific evidence that this is impossible. If you mean change my attitudes toward homophobes, well, I simply am not going to respect the viewpoint of someone who thinks it's okay to hate other people for something beyond their control. If you mean stop shouting at people and being less trigger-happy that I can work on.

[I_love_rain_hugs_and_you]

I disagree that homophobia is a learnt behaviour. It is genetic. The fact is that disgust and hatred of homosexuality has been found in virtually every culture and accross time, and this demonstrates that it is almost certainly genetic.

 

Also, natural selection would favor the creation of homophobic attitudes. Those individuals who accepted homosexuality would be less likely to sleep with someone of the opposite sex, and thus would be less likely to reproduce. Over the years, all those who accepted homosexuality would be less likely to produce offspring (obviously) and those who rejected homosexuality would be more likely to reproduce. Thus, the hatred of homosexuality would become common in the population, and would be passed down in our genes.

 

The fact that homophobic attitudes are so universal shows that they are genetically based, and not learnt. The fact is that most people in the world are homophobic, and most people are not Christian. Instead of asking how to deal with Christians, maybe you should ask how to deal with all homophobic people in the world, regardless of whether or not they follow a faith.

[melrich]

I disagree that homophobia is a learnt behaviour. It is genetic.

 

Homophobia is not genetic.

 

Homosexual people have in the past suffered greatly from societal discrimination. Historically, the results of biological research on sexual orientation have been used against them. We have analysed the arguments offered by well-intentioned defenders of such work and concluded that none survive philosophical scrutiny. It is true that in some countries in Scandinavia, North America, and most parts of Western Europe, the legal situation of homosexual people has improved, but an adequate ethical analysis of the implications of genetic inquiry into the causes of sexual orientation must operate from a global perspective. Sexual orientation researchers should be aware that their work may harm homosexuals in countries other than their own. It is difficult to imagine any good that could come of genetic research on sexual orientation in homophobic societies. Such work faces serious ethical concerns so long as homophobic societies continue to exist. Insofar as socially responsible genetic research on sexual orientation is possible, it must begin with the awareness that it will not be a cure for homophobia and that the ethical status of lesbians and gay men does not in any way hinge on its results.

 

[I_love_rain_hugs_and_you]

Melrich, how can you ignore all of the evidence that I provided to you, and conclude that homophobic is not genetic?

 

The fact is that homophobia is found in virtually every single society in the world, and has been found in virtually every single time period. If homophobia is learnt, then how can it possbibly be found in every single place in the world at all times?

 

The rules of natural selection clearly predict that homophobia has to evolve, because reproduction can only happen through hetrosexual contact. How can you ignore all of the rules of natural selection?

 

If homophobia is learnt, then how is it taught? Is there a school of homophobia that all children in the world go to, where they all learn to be homophobic? How can the same thing be learnt in so many different cultures and places and time periods. Remember that homophobia isn't just found in Christianity. It is found in almost all religions, and in people who have no faith.

 

Homophobia is clearly a genetic predisposition that strongly selects against homosexual contact so that individuals can reproduce with hetrosexual contact.

[I_love_rain_hugs_and_you]

Also, disagreeing with homosexuality does not neccessarily mean that one is homophobic. Homophobia means that one is afraid of homosexuality. One could disagree with homosexuality but not be afraid of homosexuality, in the same way that I can disagree with John Kerry, but not be afraid of John Kerry. The fact that someone disagrees with something does not mean that they are afraid of it.

 

I know a guy who is professor at a Bible college. But his brother is a homosexual. He disagrees with his brothers choice, but he still loves his brother, he still loves to hang out with his brother. In fact he sees his brother two to three times a week and they hang out together several times a week, usually going fishing (what they both love to do). Thus, you can disagree with homosexuality, but that does not make you homophobic. You can disagree with homosexuality, but still love the person who is practicing homosexuality.

 

I don't think that homosexuality is normal. But that does not mean that I have homosexuals, or that I am afraid of homosexuals. In fact, I have no feelings, negative or positive, towards homosexuality. I disagree with the act, not the person. I accept the person, not the act. My friend is bisexual. I accept him as a person, even though I don't accept what he does.

[I_love_rain_hugs_and_you]

Disagreeing with homosexuality is a bit like dissagreeing with smoking. In both cases, serious health problems can result from engaging in the behaviours. But the fact that I disagree with smoking does not mean that I hate smokers. In the same way, if I disagree with homosexuality, it does not mean that I hate homosexuals.

 

If you say that everyone who disagrees with homosexuality is homophobic, then one could argue that anyone who disagrees with smoking is "smokaphobic." They must have some sort of "fear" of smokers that turns them into bigots. The fact is that homosexuality is no different than smoking, and disagreeing with homosexuality is no different than disagreeing with smoking.

[Jinx]

Couple comments to throw into the mix here.

 

In both cases, serious health problems can result from engaging in the behaviours.

This I find an interesting comparison and statement. It makes it appear that disease comes strictly from being homosexual. There are homosexual individuals which have a perfect bill of health and heterosexual individuals which are dying of AIDS among other STDs and other alike sexual issues.

 

Melrich, how can you ignore all of the evidence that I provided to you, and conclude that homophobic is not genetic?

If homophobia is genetic, I'm a really recessive gene carrier. My entire family, extended family, friends openly claim all signs of homophobia and have no problem admitting it. Myself on the other hand, have an interest in the same gender and am not homophobic (Of course). Anyhow, if it was genetic entirely wouldn't that mean to some extent - Homosexuals wouldn't exist except a few much like a rare recessive gene? If such things were genetic, wouldn't that mean that homosexuals themself are a genetic result instead of lifestyle choices.

 

Secondly, when we're small do we go around protesting homosexuals? No. It is when we hear our parents protest in most cases, we learn from our parents or guardians. Monkey see, Monkey do so to speak. Once our parents/guardians speak hatred, as children we believe that is how things work. thereforeeee we learn - And given your smoking to homosexual analogy I'll give my own outlook. Learning Homosexual is bad is like learning to speak. Everything you do, parents help. You pick up what is within your atmosphere and cling to it. Some let go when they are older and able to make choices of their own, and others continue in that belief range for one reason or another.

 

Third thought, if homophobia is genetic, that means so is being racist, sexist, among other phobias? I would think this would all float within the same generalized boat.

 

The fact is that homosexuality is no different than smoking, and disagreeing with homosexuality is no different than disagreeing with smoking.

Not really - Smoking is a choice habit. Of course this varies from person to person according to beliefs, but I digress. Onto the comment, yes that is true. Everyone has something they disagree with. I disagree with many things, and everyone has that right. I personally disagree with smoking myself as well.

 

I think the idea of this was those which run around pronouncing "You shall burn in hell. Find god." If you disagree, fine. We all have that right. It is those which are bent on violently attacking those different from them whether it be a verbal or physical attack. One example - I have a good friend, we spent years together. This one was strictly a friend mind you. Well after we had spent so much time together, I actually have had people run up and spew the worse hate phrases known to myself. We weren't even together and never shall be. Period. Those are the individuals which I'm not fond of, I mind my business yet they must interfere with mine which is doing nothing to harm them.

 

Also, there are those which do not believe in religious freedom. Certain people need to realize Christian is not the only way of the world. We are all entitled to our own beliefs as long as they are within reason. I'm not insisting a free for all like some do. We need order but those living as out Homosexuals, those individuals in legal consenting relationships should have that right. As long as it is consentual and not illegal it is fine.

 

Nonetheless, I may be attacked for this generalized outlook but there are those which claim homosexual acts are unnatural, repulsive. The whole lot. Yet, don't straight individuals also indulge themselves in oral and anal sex? Should they too all burn in hell for the same acts? Is this a double standard of one sort or another? We'd have a lot of people in hell then. It may be different sexes but same concept of the act. What makes this any different when it comes to the generalized outlook and effect? Is it because the sexual act is supposed to be strictly reproduction based eventually thereforeeee, these are unacceptable because it only takes level one instead of level two?

 

Edited: Because I forgot a few key thoughts, more importantly horrible didn't even cover my spelling and grammar before the edit.

[I_love_rain_hugs_and_you]

1. Yes, I agree. Lots of people will be in hell, both homosexual and hetrosexual alike

 

2. You raise a good point. There actually is some research going on that suggests that racism may be strongly genetic. Racism could have helped our ancestors in thier environment. That does not mean that racism is good. But it could have been useful for survival. Racism, as well as homophobia, may be genetic.

[melrich]

Jinx you are absolutely correct. Homophobia is attitudinal, not inheritable.

 

There actually is some research going on that suggests that racism may be strongly genetic.

 

I_Love,

 

could you point me in the direction of this research. Myself and I am sure many of my colleagues would be very interested to peruse it and examine the robustness of the sampling?

 

I just have to ask I_Love, if you really understand what you are saying here and the implications of it?

 

For example. If it were proved that racism was genetically inheritable then crimes of race, genocide, are blameless crimes. the perpetrators would argue that they were genetically programmed to conduct these genocides. Murdering a homosexual is OK because you can't help genetic inheritance!!!

 

Look, gentics is still struggling with what diseases and disabilities are genetically inheritable, this is the focus of nearly all public and private funding into genetics at the moment. There is some minor but extremely under funded research going on around genetically inherited behaviours.

 

I don't know of any reseach being done on genetically inheritable attitudes but if it is being done it is only being done by the lunatic fringe.

[I_love_rain_hugs_and_you]

The fact that racism (and homophobia) may come from genetics does not relieve anyone of thier moral responsiblility. It just makes them more predisposed to being racist that they would be if they didn't have that genetic predisposition, but it does not relieve them of thier moral responsibility for their actions. Just because someone has genes that shape thier attitudes, it does not mean their behaviour is determined. But genes do have an affect.

 

A lot of the research being done on the genetic components of racism have been done is social psychology and evolutionary psychology. Evolutionary psychologists are especially interested in the biological basis of racism.

 

Individuals who are doing valid scientific research are not lunatics, even if you disagree with thier conclusions.

[melrich]

A lot of the research being done on the genetic components of racism have been done is social psychology and evolutionary psychology.

 

As I said before, point me towards some of this research.

[pianoguy]

How weird- I specifically come here asking how NOT to fight with people and I am now getting people spreading more ignorance about homosexuality. Very well.

 

I disagree that homophobia is a learnt behaviour. It is genetic. The fact is that disgust and hatred of homosexuality has been found in virtually every culture and accross time, and this demonstrates that it is almost certainly genetic.

No, this demonstrates that you are bluffing. Homophobia is most characteristic of Western cultures. The most homophobic areas in the world are the areas that are predominantly Christian, Jewish, or Islamic. Many other religions are extremely accepting of homosexuality. Some examples:

 

Native American homosexuals were revered for their peculiar mixture of masculine and feminine qualities and were often medicine men and spiritual leaders.

 

The folk religions of Africa are extremely accepting of homosexuality and consider it common.

 

The ancient Greeks loved homosexuals. It was extremely common for older men to take younger lovers/apprentices. The Spartan army, one of the most effective fighting forces the world has ever seen, encouraged homosexuals to join and placed lovers in the same battalion, so that they would fight out of love for each other. Spartans considered lovers to be their most effective warriors.

 

Buddhism has no problems with homosexuality. I believe Hinduism is the same, although I am not entirely sure.

 

In ancient China men were supposed to marry and have offspring, but so long as they fulfilled their duty to reproduce they could have male lovers on the side. This was fairly common.

 

My point is: in more primitive societies we generally see that people have less of a problem than in Western culture, the opposite of what you said.

 

While we're talking about primitive societies, you probably are aware that there are some species of animals that demonstrate homosexual behavior, such as penguins. In general, homosexual animals are not treated differently by other members of the flock or herd. So it would seem that evolution does not create homophobia as you suppose.

 

Also, natural selection would favor the creation of homophobic attitudes. Those individuals who accepted homosexuality would be less likely to sleep with someone of the opposite sex, and thus would be less likely to reproduce.

 

This doesn't make sense, as I'm sure you realize. Conservative straight Christians are no more likely to engage in homosexual behavior than liberal straight atheists. Straight people have sex with people of the opposite sex regardless of their politics.

 

Now I ask you this: If what you say is true, how come homosexuals have not died out? It seems to me that if you think that people who accept homosexuals are not likely to produce, than surely you must realize that HOMOSEXUALS are even less likely to produce! And yet this behavior shows little or no tendency of "dying out."

The fact that homophobic attitudes are so universal shows that they are genetically based, and not learnt. The fact is that most people in the world are homophobic, and most people are not Christian. Instead of asking how to deal with Christians, maybe you should ask how to deal with all homophobic people in the world, regardless of whether or not they follow a faith.

 

Again, this is simply not true. Homophobic attitudes are NOT universal, I have demonstrated this, if you wish I will cite my sources.

[pianoguy]

You can disagree with homosexuality, but still love the person who is practicing homosexuality.

 

This is a patronizing and insulting attitude. Imagine if I said, "I disagree with the fact that your skin is black, but I love you nevertheless." Your response would be, "Get lost you jerk." This is how I react when people make statements like the one above.

 

Do you realize the implications of what you are saying? The only chance for a homosexual to attain salvation is to remain celibate or at least to fight the sexual urges and repent of them afterwards. So you offer me this choice: I may have sex and go to Hell after I die, or I may be celibate and be in Hell on earth. What a noble thing to do. You would do well to heed the words of Jesus when he says, "They are like the Pharisees, who tie heavy burdens onto the backs of others."

I don't think that homosexuality is normal.

 

You may think whatever you like, but the people who actually study the matter disagree with you. Frankly, I think the fact that I am homosexual and you are not means that you should yield to what I say, since I am the one who actually struggles with these feelings. Nevertheless, I offer you the following citations:

 

American Psychological Association: "Homosexuality is not an illness. It does not require treatment and it is not changeable."

 

American Academy of Pediatrics: "Therapy directed specifically at changing sexual orientation is contraindicated [...] it has little or no potential for achieving changes in orientation."

 

American Psychological Association: "The research on homosexuality is very clear. Homosexuality is neither mental illness nor moral depravity. It is simply the way a minority of our population expresses human love and sexuality. Study after study documents the mental health of gay men and lesbians. Studies of judgment, stability, reliability, and social and vocational adaptiveness all show that gay men and lesbians function every bit as well as heterosexuals."

 

"Nor is homosexuality a matter of individual choice. Research suggests that the homosexual orientation is in place very early in the life cycle, possibly even before birth. It is found in about ten percent of the population, a figure which is surprisingly constant accross cultures, irrespective of the different moral values and standards of a particular culture. Contrary to what some imply, the incidence of homosexuality in a population does not appear to change with new moral codes or social mores. Research findings suggest that efforts to repair homosexuals are nothing more than social prejudice garbed in psychological accouterments."

 

This is what science has to say about the matter. Again, you are entitled to believe whatever you like, but simply believing something does not make it true.

[melrich]

Don't sweat it Pianoguy, some people just don't like the facts getting in the way of salacious propaganda.